BiggerPockets

Bill,

You should probably read up on this. I have heard of investors having an LLC for each property.That way the liability is limited to only that property. If you have ten properties in one LLC and someone sues you, all properties in that LLC are vulnerable.

Hope that makes sense.I am certainly no attorney! :-)

Paula

Originally posted by BizLender_

Bill,

You should probably read up on this. I have heard of investors having an LLC for each property.That way the liability is limited to only that property. If you have ten properties in one LLC and someone sues you, all properties in that LLC are vulnerable.

Hope that makes sense.I am certainly no attorney! :-)

Paula

I used to do the one property per LLC bit but as we grew and our holdings grew it became unwieldy.

Now, we break up the holdings based on area and property manager. For example, in TN, even though they allow a series LLC, this year I rolled all of our TN properties into one LLC. They are all right around the Knoxville area and are all managed by the same manager.

However, in GA and NC we are still using multiple LLCs.

By the end of this year I expect to add holdings in SC and we will start with one LLC there and evaluate it as time goes by.

But, you touched on the liability issue and in my opinion the complexity hyped by many gurus over the use of lots of LLCs does not match reality. I don't care how you break things up and try to hide them they can be found, the dots can be connected and any entity can be wiped out with the stroke of a pen from a judge.

The best liability protection is to first do the right thing! Keep the properties in good repair and don't harm people. Second, maintain adequate liability insurance.

The best way to figure out how to hold your properties is to sit down with your accountant and attorney and map out your long term plans. Once that happens, everything else just falls into place.

OK sorry if this is a stupid question. I did not even think about incorporating. I was going to own on my own. What is the downside of having a SFH / townhome / condo on your name as a rental?

LLC for each property is just too much trouble to manage. Try 'equity split' to protect your assets. This is a method to group all or number of properties in #1 LLC, then create #2 LLC that holds the note for all the equity in #1 LLC.

So, if anything goes wrong with #1 LLC (manages all RE activities,) then it'll show no equity/asset in it. Because #2 LLC holds a note against it.

For detail, do some search on line.

Good luck,

Denise

I think there are other options that eliminate the "cross contamination" from being sued in one LLC and allowing the plaimtiff to get to your other LLc's, you personally or EVEN your assets or equity in the defendant LLC!!. Disclaimer- I'm not a attorney, but have paid actual CPAS and Estate/real estate attorneys a pot of money.
The note idea above was interesting, but there are other ways. One is to move your equity/ownership in LLC into an irrevocable trust where you have the control to manage the LLC as the manager, but in the capacity as trustee of the Irrevocable trust. Show kids or grandkids as beneficiaries, but you control it. No liability to you that in case of lawsuits personally, the kids or grandkids have no say over trust assets, because you manage and creditors can't force you to change the TRust disbursements because it is IRREVOCABLE.
I think I got a;; the things in here as to how it would work. Some trusts even have a "poison pill provision" which you can use AGAINST the plaintiff if neccessary.

To no name in Manhattan. In a perfect world, doing the right thing might be enuff. We don't live in a perfect world and that is not enuff now. When you've been around the block as many times as I have, you'll see what I mean. Too many frivolous lawsuits that juries award ridiculous amounts on peoples' studid decisions and actions.
I would also add to sit down NOT with your acct and attorney. Most likely your normal acct will be a paper pusher that fills out forms, not what you need here. Your attorney is most likely NOT an estate attorney but a general practicioner you went with when you started. Find actual helpers in the EXACT field you need, and pay through the nose for their knowledge, so you won't pay through the nose with all your net worth later.
Again, I'm not an attorney, but only explaining what "others" have been known to have done for maximum protection. Good luck . Rich.

This topic come up a lot and I can ONLY stress how important it is to consult a reliable and experienced RE attorney.

Just because you do have an LLC, does not in itself give you liability protection. Keep in mind that the liability protection is one way in that it protects you personally from the entity but not the entity from you.
If you have a property or properties inside an LLC and you kill someone while driving drunk, be aware that all your personal holdings and ALL of your entity holdings are at risk. However, if your tenant falls down and busts their hip, they can only sue the property owner which is the LLC and not you (so long as you are not proven to be negligent or that they were not successful in piercing the corporate veil). If your tenant sent you several letters asking to fix the front porch steps which were in need of repair and you failed to do so, then they fell and got hurt, YOU personally are now also responsible in addition to the LLC due to your negligence.

As far as number of properties per entity, the quantity of properties should have NO bearing on your decision, but only the amount of "equity" in the LLC. If you had 20 properties all with only $1k of equity in them, you would have only $20k of "equity" at risk and therefore would only need the one LLC.

Hi, point to Rich and to Denise Y, put them both together and you have it! Will too for suggesting legal advise and liability insurance. If you have an irrevocable trust, it can provide the protection and when the LLC is nothing more than a lender (very limited liability since you're only funding properties) the equity is limited. An attorny needs to design the trust and LLC so that it will not be deemed a sham transaction held by interested parties. With the new Series LLC, properties can be held in one company without fear of all units being at risk arising from an issue with one unit. Keeping the equity limited to all properties will head off many issues beforee they start. One of the first things an attorney will do is to ascertain if the suit has anything to go after. Looking up the properties and seeing 5% equity (use a future advance note because they never know what's been advanced) will at least make it appear that there is nothing to gain other than fighting with an insurance company! IMO, Bill

If you have enuff assets, please consult a real estate/estate planning acct and attorney. It doesn't matter how many LLCs you have, if you are the beneficiary and get sued on a separate matter. It MAY help, if someone falls and breaks her neck on your property.
An irrevocable trust, as I mentioned above, with you as the manager(and others/entities as the beneficiaries) is the best method, according to Bernie the Attorney. $1000 per hour and well worth it. Good luck with your system. Rich

Originally posted by Bienes Raices

My insurance agent told me that her carriers will not insure an LLC if it holds more than one property. Has anyone else run across this problem?

You are not asking for them to insure the LLC, but the proeprty itself. Either way, NO, I have not heard of that and have never had that problem and I insure several properties at once within the same entity.

My insurance agent told me that her carriers will not insure an LLC if it holds more than one property. Has anyone else run across this problem?

It depends on the carrier and the state you're in. In Mass, I can insure each building under its own policy and each one has it's own liability section. Each policy would have a premises liability. These are typically for people who own one rental, and are usually aren't an LLC (but I can do it in an LLC). These carriers are personal lines carriers and don't insure businesses (at least not in that division or operating company).

I can also write the business giving you a blanket liability, schedule your properties, and give you an endorsement to cover new purchases up to a certain amount for 30 days, plus other benefits.

The second one is usually much more expensive policy when you own one or two properties, but it insures you better.

One of the reasons I can do this is because I'm an independent agent - my agency represents about 20 companies between personal and commercial lines. If you're going to a captive agent (State Farm, Allstate, etc), they probably don't have the resources.