BiggerPockets


liability of buying renovation materials

Forum Powered By:

10 posts by 6 users

To participate in forum discussions, create a free account or login.

Daniel L.

Tennessee

Dec 02 '12, 08:49 AM


I'm a newbie investor and heard a rehab gal Robyn Thompson vehemently state one time that she would never buy materials for her renovations because it would open her up to being considered as a GC/employer if ever sued by an injured worker and another investor she knew had their wealth wiped out as a consequence of this. Does anybody here have any great insight into this/options to mitigate such liability? Before the suggestion gets made of placing investment properties in separate land trusts or separate LLCs...One difficult consideration Memphis imposes is something called Hall tax which imposes a 6% tax on the investment proceeds of entities like LLCs & trusts but not properties held by an individual (If I understood a lawyer correctly).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_income_tax

So are there insurance offerings that address this liability and a person would just buy sufficient insurance coverage? Your insight is most appreciated!



J Scott Moderator Donor

Real Estate Investor from Ellicott City, Maryland

Dec 02 '12, 10:11 AM
1 vote


Yes, Robyn Thompson likes to tell that story about the roofer. While she is correct that purchasing materials is an indication of an employer/employee relationship, the IRS will look a the entire picture to determine the nature of the relationship, not just who buys the materials.

In fact, I have an old BP blog post that details many of the things the IRS will examine to determine employee vs contractor, and while im not an attorney or tax professional,I imagine that if you, by and large, treat the person as contractor and not an employee, just the act of buying materials won't negate that.

In fact, that blog post was inspired by Robyn's story...

I'll try to dig up that blog post when I get back to a computer...

EDIT: Here you go:

http://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2010/05/26/are-you-sure-your-independent-contractors-really-are/



Medium_lishproplogoJ Scott, Lish Properties, LLC
E-Mail: [email protected]
Website: http://www.123flip.com
CHECK OUT MY BIGGERPOCKETS BOOKS: http://www.biggerpockets.com/flippingbook


Daniel L.

Tennessee

Dec 05 '12, 07:49 AM


Totally helpful J Scott. Thank you!



Altin Velaj

Note Investor from garwood, New Jersey

Dec 05 '12, 08:22 AM


@Daniel L. the lawer is correct about Memphis. individual up to 10 properties.



Daniel L.

Tennessee

Dec 05 '12, 09:09 AM


Altin, thanks for the reaffirmation! I know sometimes people, even lawyers, get it wrong ;)



James H.

SFR Investor from Texas

Dec 05 '12, 09:16 AM


If you have the money, it's usually preferrable to provide materials. I suppose you can worry about the liabilities you discuss, but real life risks are more along the line of the contractor taking your money and skipping town. Also, the contractor will put a markup on the material. Even when the contractor gets a discuount for bulk, you usually could get materials cheaper on your own after accounting for contractor markup.



Chris Clothier Donor

Real Estate Investor from memphis, Tennessee

Dec 30 '12, 03:24 PM


@Daniel L. - Your profile says you are an investor in Texas, why the question concern about investing in Memphis? If you are wanting to do projects in Memphis, but live in Texas, then the Hall Tax does not apply to you unless you plan on living in Memphis while doing your projects and that amounts to greater than 6 months of the year. Otherwise, it does not apply to you.



Medium_new_mi_logoChris Clothier, Memphis Invest, GP
Telephone: 901-212-9647
Website: http://www.memphisinvest.com
www.MemphisInvest.com 1(877)-773-9998 Chris D Clothier


Daniel L.

Tennessee

Dec 30 '12, 11:25 PM


@Chris Clothier@ Thanks for the good info...You and your family are amazing! I wish my family had the kind of cohesion for the success of a family business as your family has. Also, thanks for the reminder to update my profile...as I just updated it to TN. At present I'm living in TN most of the time so your advice is spot on. Keep up the good work you do with Memphis Invest and your biggerpockets blog. Happy New Years!



Joe B.

Real Estate Investor from Sacramento, California

Dec 31 '12, 12:15 AM
2 votes


Who purchases the materials is a non issue, it is all about the contract between you, the GC and the subs. If you use unlicensed, uninsured subs and don't have a contract... you are asking for major problems. Always use a contract (can borrow from the AGC) and have the sub provide you with a certificate of insurance for general liability, auto and workers' comp. The certificate needs to name you as additional insured with primary wording and a waiver of Subrogation.



Daniel L.

Tennessee

Jan 02 '13, 12:24 AM


@Joe B. That sounds like sound advice from an insurance guy in the know : ) Thanks for your input!



(Don't Want to See This? Log in or Create a Free BiggerPockets.com Account!)

Ubg-book

Get the Free eBook from BiggerPockets

Get The Ultimate Beginner's Guide to Real Estate Investing for FREE - read by more than 100,000 people - AND get exclusive real estate investing tips, tricks, and techniques delivered straight to your inbox twice weekly!

  • Actionable Advice for Getting Started,
  • Discover the 10 Most Lucrative Real Estate Niches,
  • Learn how to get started with or without money,
  • Explore Real-Life Strategies for Building Wealth,
  • And a LOT more!

Sign up below to download the eBook for FREE today!

We hate spam just as much as you


To post a reply or start a new discussion, create a free account or login.

Manage Keyword Alerts

View All Forums