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Forums » Starting Out » Starting off as a long distance investor

Starting off as a long distance investor Subscribe to Starting off as a long distance investor

12 posts by 7 users

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Accountant · Cleveland, Ohio


Go easy on me, I'm new to all of this! I'm not 100% novice, I'm already a homeowner, living in Cleveland, Ohio. I would like to use savings and some home equity to purchase an investment property, perhaps a two-family home. I'm young (23) and have a good, stable job. I'm putting down a personal business plan on paper to help me lay out my long term goal, which is to own enough rental properties generating enough cash flow to live off of. The problem I see happening is my location. It seems like there are so many vacancies in my area, how can I be sure that I will even be able to rent the units out at all? Cleveland lost 10% of its population since the last census. I just don't feel confident in the rental market here, which is a shame because there are so many bargains on the market.

I would rather invest in bigger cities, especially known college towns like Boston, DC, Philadelphia.

Does anyone have any experience, or advice, on starting out as a long distance landlord? Or does anyone have a good reason for me to invest here in NE Ohio?

Let me know if you would like more information. Thanks!


· Panama (South of Buffalo), New York


Adam,

There is actually a group for out of state landlords (with over 400 members.) Here is the link: http://www.biggerpockets.com/groups/20

You are starting out with a plan and that is the most important thing! Read through the forums and keep asking questions!

With technology and solid property management, it is absolutely possible to own out of state.

College rentals are good because you can charge per room and the students pay for the entire year in advance.

Make sure you do a lot of market research before diving into Boston, Philly though.

Have you thought about Columbus or somewhere similar to that and closer to you?

Wish you success!


Real Estate Investor · Rochester Hills, Michigan


What are your good reasons for NOT wanting to invest in OH?


Real Estate Investor · Rochester Hills, Michigan


Oh - and what are your reasons for wanting to invest in DC, Boston or Philly?


Real Estate Investor · Denver, Colorado


Don't know much about any of these locations, but from the little I know I'd take Cleveland over Philly any day. I suspect Boston and DC are going to be pricey (high price to rent ratio). I've considered (briefly) trying to invest in Cleveland, even though its a long ways away. I think you're giving up on it too quickly.

I've never seen a situation where students pay a year in advance. I looked at student housing for a while and pulled back. They're complete pigs and totally disrespectful of your property. Assume that summers will be vacant. Students drop out of school mid term, then what? You're stuck with a vacancy until next term.

Any long distance investment is going to require a PM. You don't have to search very hard to find PM horror stories. I'm sure there are good ones out there, but there seem to be a lot more bad ones.

I think if you look hard right in Cleveland you can find some screaming deals. $5-10K units that will get $500 in rents after a few grand in fixup. I'm not on the ground there, you are. Get out and start talking to people and make contacts and I think you'll find good deals right there. If not right in Cleveland, then within an hours drive.

Small_flying-phoenixJon Holdman, Flying Phoenix LLC


Accountant · Cleveland, Ohio


@ Valerie: Thanks for forwarding me to the out of state investor group. Columbus is actually something I've been considering for some time.

@Scott: As I said before, the vacancy rates here in greater Cleveland are astonishing. Larger college towns (Boston, DC) offer great marketability to college students, which offers great potential - Consider this: College students (I know from experience) are not concerned about price, as long as the money is there to pay for it, ie. scholarship money, parents money, student loans. Valerie made a great point - renting to college students gives me to opportunity to rent individual rooms, and collecting many months of rent up front. I really like the idea of college towns, since I'm young and feel I can market to that demographic better than any other.


Real Estate Consultant · Siesta Key, Florida


Valarie hit it out of the park. You need a good manager and also need to screen well. Myself, I like Section 8, you actually know your getting a check every month. Most important of all IMO is NOI...

Net Operating Income or NOI is equal to a property's yearly gross income less operating expenses. Gross income includes both rental income and other income such as parking fees, laundry and vending receipts, etc. All income associated with a property. Operating expenses are costs incurred during the operation and maintenance of a property. They include repairs and maintenance, insurance, management fees, utilities, supplies, property taxes, etc. The following are not operating expenses: principal and interest, capital expenditures, depreciation, income taxes, and amortization of loan points. Net operating income is calculated like this.



Income
Gross Rents Possible 100,000
Other Income 3,000
Potential Gross Income 103,000
Less vacancy Amount 2,000
Effective Gross Income 101,000
Less Operating Expenses 31,000
Net Operating Income 70,000



Net operating income or NOI is used in two very important real estate ratios. It is an essential ingredient in the Capitalization Rate (Cap Rate) calculation that is used to estimate the value of income producing properties. Lets assume we have a market capitalization rate of 10 for the type of property we are considering purchasing. A market cap rate is calculated by evaluating the financial data from current sales of similar income producing properties in a given market place. We are evaluating a similar income property that is currently for sale with a net operating income of $50,000. We would estimate the value of this property like this.



Net Operating Income 50,000
Estimated Value = ------------------------------ = ------------ = 500,000
Capitalization Rate .10

Another important ratio that is used to evaluate income producing properties is the Debt Coverage Ratio or DCR. The NOI is a key ingredient in this important ratio also. Lenders and investors use the debt coverage ratio to measure a property's ability to pay it's operating expenses and mortgage payments. A debt coverage ratio of 1 is breakeven. Most lenders require minimum of 1.1 to 1.3 to be considered for a commercial loan. From a a bank's perspective, the larger the debt coverage ratio, the better. Debt coverage ratio is calculated like this.



Net Operating Income 50,000
Debt Coverage Ratio = ------------------------------- = ---------- = 1.25
Debt Service 40,000

Debt service is the total of all interest and principal paid on a loan in a given year. It is equal to the mortgage payment times 12 or the mortgage payments times 12 if you have multiple loans on a property.

SORRY: I can't get the formulas to show correctly. However, fill in the blanks with the info above and below the divisable line!



Real Estate Investor · Rochester Hills, Michigan


College students are a double edged sword....first - they don't all pay a year in advance....second they tend to care less about your home then practically another other group...in particular the men (or should I say boys).

if your set on college - you have OSU right there.

You also said your a newbie - I would start local - prove your model and then expand. A lot easier to manage something close by then 2,000 miles away.

Lots of OH investors on here getting tenants - I have worked in a lot of very "bad" cities by the "stats" and have never really had an issue.......

Instead of making the assumptions you did I would talk to some of the OH investors - join local REIA groups and find out what is happening on the ground first


Real Estate Investor · Ohio


Adam,

Ohio is an EXCELLENT place to have a rental business. In my opinion, it would be bordering on insanity to try to start a long-distance rental business in Boston, Philly, or DC when you have an excellent market right here! Operating a long-distance rental business is MUCH more difficult than running a local business and your chances of success are MUCH lower.

If you're serious about living off of your rental business, then by all means live where you invest!

Finally, NOTHING is as easy as it appears on the surface. Student housing SOUNDS good, but it's no better than any other type of rental housing. Students are VERY hard on the property and tenants will drop out or move (to shack up with their latest boyfriend/girlfriend) on the drop of a hat! I could go on and on, but you're only getting the positives so far!

Good Luck,

Mike


· Panama (South of Buffalo), New York


I hope I didn't give the impression that landlording is easy, nor am I advocating student housing. Just wanted to encourage research and networking.

Like any other investment, you have to account for all of the variables.

Keep us updated!


Accountant · Cleveland, Ohio


Thank you for everyones input so far, I never considered all of the downsides to student housing - however I still think that, if I have the location right, and the right tenants, I can make good money off students.

@ Mike...yes I've begun looking at bargains in the western suburbs of Cleveland, and I'm quite surprised at the bargains in Rocky River, Lakewood, Avon Lake. Smaller, older homes, but priced low enough to ensure reasonable NOI.

@Scott, good advice, starting local and then prove myself first. I think this is something I should do before buying out of state.

@Skylar, thank you for the formula's, very helpful.


Real Estate Investor · North Carolina


Renting to college students is a niche with certain characteristics, just like low-income or blue-collar or section 8 or luxury rentals have certain characteristics.

The ONE thing to be concerned about is your NOI. If you can find college rentals that cash flow great! I cannot or I would jump on them since I'm experienced in that area.

The other consideration is to BUY LOW enough that your rent is flexible. I have two blue-collar rentals that I had to lower my rents to below market until they were filled. The other landlords couldn't afford to go that low so I got the tenants. And yes, those properties still cash flow fine.

Let the numbers lead you to the right investment.


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