5/25/12 IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: MAJOR BP Update Next Week!

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Forums » BiggerPockets Q&A, Site Questions, & Announcements » BiggerPockets Loses the Battle to School You in Real Estate - May 25 Teleseminar Canceled

BiggerPockets Loses the Battle to School You in Real Estate - May 25 Teleseminar Canceled Subscribe to BiggerPockets Loses the Battle to School You in Real Estate - May 25 Teleseminar Canceled

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BiggerPockets Founder · Denver, Colorado


Henry Ford once said, "Failure is only the opportunity to begin again, only this time more wisely."

I believe that is the case here.

As most of you know, BiggerPockets has for the past weeks, been planning a real estate teleseminar on rehabbing, scheduled for May 25. This event was to be the beginning of a series of educational calls and webinars, inspired by your requests for us to put them on. We had put together a fine list of very successful real estate investors and others who we wanted to get for future events, and knew that you'd get a mind-blowing education out of each.

In our surveys to our members and in private discussions, you have told us that you wanted BiggerPockets to put these events on.

You requested it.

We listened.

But, in true BiggerPockets style, this event wasn't going to be like the others out there. We were offering a 90-minute event with no sales pitch and no nonsense, from a true expert in his field - an hour and a half of non-stop education. There are very few events out there that take this approach; most are free events that pepper the bare minimum of valuable information, with the bulk of the event designed to upsell you on some other, expensive product, training, etc. I've been approached my many of the gurus who have asked that we help market their seminars for a nice 50% cut of the action, and each time, they took the same approach. They knew that people would get caught up in the hype, and they would make their money on the upsell.

Putting these things together takes time and costs real money. Our plan was to give a great event, offer as part of the price a great book, and for our effort, we'd walk out with a little bit of profit. You, of course, would walk away with your minds blown by the depth and breadth of information offered.

That was the plan.

Let me remind you all that I hate hype. I think it takes away from the real intent of offering a real estate education -- the part where you get content usable and actual education; but I contend that isn't the intent of their events. It is to sell you and it works! We wanted to do it differently . . .

Failure to Market?
We also decided that we'd market it differently. Instead of relying on countless annoying pitch emails(you all know what I'm talking about here), we promoted it through our BiggerPockets platform and through just a few emails to our list of over 35,000 people.

Over the five plus years I've been running BP, I've read many discussions where you have talked about your dislike of the current system that the marketers use to sell their real estate events and products, and we choose to keep that in mind when promoting this one.

We failed.

We failed because we listened.

Apparently, you really do want to get all those emails in your inbox. Apparently when a network of gurus all promote the same event, it validates that event to you, even if it may offer little to no value. Apparently, I should have listened to a few people who told me that I needed to use the "standard formula" of email marketing for this event.

If that is how it must be done, then I don't want to have anything to do with it.

I hoped that you'd see through all the noise to see the real value that we were offering, but I guess that we just didn't get it right.

We've had a whopping 3 - yep, you're reading that right - three signups for this event.

I don't think I need to tell you how bad that number is given our 51,000+ members and 35,000+ email subscribers.

It is really bad.

So bad that these three people have been refunded their money and we've cancelled the event.

Perhaps there is another way to offer this education to you . . .

Perhaps we can still change the way things are done in the "real estate education" space?

After this experience, though, I'm not sure we can.

We're going to take a little bit of time to lick our wounds, and then see if we can take another approach to bring you great information while making a buck or two for our efforts.

Keeping it Real

I've been told by some that I should have just used an excuse such as technical problems or issues with our speaker in cancelling, but I just can't do that. I'd be lying to myself and to you. That's not how I roll.

We tried. We failed. We'll begin again . . . this time more wisely.

Josh

Small_bplogo20aJoshua Dorkin, BiggerPockets, Inc.
E-Mail: webmaster@biggerpockets.com
Telephone: 877-831-4704
Website: http://www.biggerpockets.com
Be sure to check out the BiggerPockets Blog at http://www.BiggerPockets.com/renewsblog/


Real Estate Investor · Portage, Michigan


Josh, don't give up! I agree with your concept. Although, rehabbing is not what we do, if we were to start in that direction, I would be attracted to a seminar that was recommended by someone that I trusted. You and Bigger Pockets have been recommended to us from people that we trust. Unfortunately, "Hype" catches attention, especially when potential $$$ are attached. I like to think that I'm pretty good at figuring out whom to listen to and learn from (after many mistakes!). Try it again with a little more marketing. I always open e-mails from Bigger Pockets!


Real Estate Investor · Chemnitz, Saxonia


Josh,
I empathize with you about this situation. I was in the same position, no one wanted an BP meeting in Cleveland. Life goes on and all BP member has another thing coming and fret of this missed chance.

-Uwe


Real Estate Investor · Bergen County, New Jersey


BiggerPockets is without a doubt the best real estate investing forum around and I can bet that countless people, including myself have gotten a great education simply by asking questions and reading past posts...

I think a question that might need to be answered and one that I had myself is - what will I get out of this seminar that I can not get out of reading and asking questions right on the forums here on BP.

Not trying to deter you from holding future teleseminars just trying to give you some feedback...


· Los Angeles, California


Josh

Nobody expects you to work for free and neither should you. There is no reason why you or any other real estate "guru" can't offer great advise and education but still make some money at the same time.

You offered some education for a price and yet you say you won't stoop to the level of "hype". Well my friend selling is selling. Promoting is promoting. There is nothing bad about that. Offer a good product at a good value and be proud to to hype, promote, and yes "sell". Your followers will be happy to support you.

[LINK REMOVED - PLEASE USE SIGNATURE]


General Contractor · Jefferson City, Missouri


As a full time business owner and part time investor it is hard to commit to 1.5 hrs to listening to a long distance telephone call.

The $50 fee is a drop in the bucket and the long distance phone call irrelevant. "Convenience" was the reason that I didn't sign up.

If you decide to do a webinar I would pay the $50 to watch the recording of it as I have the time. I have attended several through www.dimdim.com both live and recorded and got a lot out of them.


Real Estate Investor · Fort Lauderdale, Florida


Hey Josh, thanks for the candor. The educational series should definitely continue! My suggestion is a more flexible format (i.e. listening/watching from a laptop) and I personally see nothing wrong with more marketing of these events as BP is providing a tremendous value doing pure content education. Keep the faith and we'll look forward to round 2!


Accountant · Lexington, Kentucky


Josh,

I am new to the site and would gladly pay $50 for a webinar that is full of real information and not trying to upsell. Especially if I could download it and watch it at my convenience.

John


Real Estate Investor · Wilton, California


Not sure who your gurus were, but if it is anything like the site police...


Real Estate Investor · Wilton, California


We do it for real, no bells or whistles. Fix and Flip is easy, after you get greased! Gotta' do the homework (leg-work).


Real Estate Investor · Tampa, Florida


Hey Josh,

I agree with Shae- you should definitely continue with the educational series!

You are offering some fantastic education at an affordable price, so there's NO REASON for you to feel bad about marketing it. If you believe in the product and think it will have a positive impact on those who purchase it (which I know you do), then all the more reason to market the crap out of it. :)

Keep your chin up, Josh.

Steph


Real Estate Investor · Wilton, California


Stay true to who you are, your principles. Two wrongs do not make a right and VALUE is not always in the $$$$. People who are true will support you no matter what, but takers never pay.


Accountant · St. Paul, Minnesota


Josh,

I think you should still record the webinar and add it to the library of knowledge already on BP. I was going to attend the call but am preparing for a big test next month. I will still make the purchase if you make it available.

Thanks for everything.

Phil


Real Estate Investor


Perhaps we can still change the way things are done in the "real estate education" space?

You mean, again, in another way, or in addition to?

Be a dull life if anything tried was a runaway success. Don't stop,


Real Estate Investor · Alger, Ohio


Josh,

Unfortunately I'm still stuck in a J.O.B. with 12 hour, rotating from days to nights shifts. Sometimes I don't even know what day it is.

That will all change soon enough as I am taking my first short sale under contract this weekend. I know this single deal won't get me out of my job, but it is a step in the right direction. Everything I know, and every business contact made happened through this site. You and this community of sharing and caring people have changed my life in a way that I'll never forget.

Though I'm focusing on short sales now, I do plan to work into rehab flips and would find a recorded seminar that is available for download very essential to my success. BP is my source for education. If I have a question, I either get in touch with one of my contacts that I've met here, post it in the forums, or search the forums for the answer.

Everyone on this site knows that you would and will deliver only quality content, need to know information. Please continue your educational plans. If you have several different strategies available for download for $50 each, I know I'll be buying.

Thanks Josh for all that you've done for me and this great community.

Kyle


Real Estate Investor · houston, Texas


honestly i never read my emails outside of family and friends, also, donno how much you are chargin but with 51,000 members, how about 5 bucks a webinar that we can d/l? thats 255,000 k for each webinar, and thats not even counting new members.


· Seattle, Washington


Hi Josh,
I just logged in to register for the seminar. but it is sad to see this seminar canceled. I will definitely attend this seminar if you open it again. I don't have any suggestions for the next seminar, but i really like webinar than teleconferencing. I would like this to be recorded, uploaded and given access to all users who paid and attended this seminar. you are doing a really good job. you have well established yourself as a real estate investor, owner of this great website. You have achieved great success so far and i know you wont fail.


Real Estate Investor · Atlanta, Georgia


Given that we get about a half-dozen posts per week from new investors looking for a mentor, this is kinda surprising...

It also says a lot about how serious those people really are...

Keep up the great work Josh...and don't let this small setback discourage!

J Scott, Lish Properties, LLC
Telephone: 770-906-6358
Website: http://www.123flip.com
http://www.123flip.com


Private Money Lender · Denver, Colorado


Josh,
Do not give up. BP provides tremendous content. I hate being innundated with guru launch emails, but inevitably do pop into them typically last minute if my schedule allows. I planned on popping into this one today. So, while it seems cheesey maybe a bit more email advertising; and a webinar is more likely to get better participation. Kudos to you for a great site and for not selling your soul to the guru affiliate pitches. Keep the faith - you have a loyal following here.


Real Estate Investor · Springfield, Missouri


Hi Josh, thanks for trying and stay with your goal! I know there are many who may not have the $50.00, and as pointed out above, the price may be an issue. Time may also be an issue, but most will have more time than money.

IS it possible to have people show an interest first, a list to sign up at different levels? Who is willing to do $10., 20, 30, maybe 40? A survey for extablishing the price. If you have 35,000 hits at ten bucks, I would think that would cover it...maybe 15,000 at 20 dollars and 150 people might say 40 or more. Now knowing everyone will want to pay the least amount (lol) you can still see the mean pricing. If you're up on your "Z" test in statistics, all the better. Budget..set that up and put it out here giving plenty of leeway to sign up.

I am putting some things together as well and have found out that it's more costly than I thought. It's just to consolidate the questions I get and some basic information....so I guess nothing is really free anymore, but if I can't do it similar to your plan, without a sponsor, hype, fees, etc, I won't do it either. It should be as close to free as I can get it!

If this is a money making deal for the site, I'd suggest you set up an educational side on this site as another site does where people can participate or not, just running the site and the forum does not turn you into a guru (IMO) just watch who you let in! I really hope your next attempt works out for everyone! Good luck, Bill




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