Recourse When HW Floor is Engineered, not Solid?

Just purchased a 12 year old, 2,100 square foot home. As part of the deal, we got a $2,200 credit to resurface the hardwood floors (approximately 800 square feet).

After closing, we had a contractor refinish the floor. But soon found that what we thought was "hardwood" flooring is actually "engineered hardwood" flooring.

The listing for the property clearly stated "hardwood floors thru out lower level". And at no time did our agent (who is also the listing agent) ever mention anything about engineered hardwood, even when we noticed that the floor would need to be sanded and re-varnished.

I've since done a bit of research on solid vs. engineered flooring and understand there are plusses and minuses to each. But it is clear that engineered flooring has a much shorter lifespan than sold hardwood flooring. As a result, a twelve year old engineered floor is worth far less than a solid wood floor.

Is it common practice to shorten "engineered hardwood" to "hardwood" in listings?

I feel cheated or at least misled.

What recourse options do I have?

Thanks,

Edited: 06/26/2010 at 10:59AM

J Scott

Real Estate Investor · Atlanta, Georgia

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Dec 28 '09, 08:28 AM

I've not only seen engineered hardwood referred to as "hardwood," but I've seen laminate flooring referred to as "hardwood" as well.

Sellers will try to get away with making their homes sounds better than they are, which is why the buyer must take care to do inspections, ask lots of questions, and in general, ensure that all due diligence is completed PRIOR to the purchase.

I'd be very surprised if you had any recourse in this matter (of course you could sue, but my lay-person's opinion is that you'd have little or no chance of winning).

Take it as a lesson learned for your next deal...

Edited: 06/26/2010 at 10:59AM

J Scott, Lish Properties, LLC
Telephone: 770-906-6358
Website: http://www.123flip.com
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Henry Chen

· San Francisco, California

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Jan 06 '10, 04:32 AM

Yes, he is right on the money. It was advertised as hardwood floors and are hardwood floors. Just engineered hardwood.

Edited: 06/26/2010 at 11:07AM

P NW

· OR

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Jan 08 '10, 01:12 AM

You are probably going to find that the listing has a disclaimer that says the information is not quaranteed.

There is no reason for your agent to know that the floors are engineered. They have to take the seller's word for it about what the floors are made of.

It's possible that the seller didn't know. They might have purchased the house thinking it was solid hardwood.

I could have ripped out the flooring and replaced it with real wood for the amount of allowance you got, if I did my own labor and used pre-finished flooring.

In this market, when the buyer is in the drivers seat, I suppose you could have specified an additional hold-back in case the floors weren't solid hardwood.

Sometimes, when you buy used housing, you get what you get.

Did the floors turn out well? Are you selling the house? Are you going to disclose that the floors are engineered?

Edited: 06/26/2010 at 11:09AM by P NW

Steve A

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Jan 08 '10, 04:31 AM

"I could have ripped out the flooring and replaced it with real wood for the amount of allowance you got, if I did my own labor and used pre-finished flooring."

OK, lets do the math... $2,200 credit / 800 square feet = $2.75 per sf.
good luck installing a floor at $2.75/sf.

The resurface job came out nice. we are not planning on selling anytime soon. will we disclose? I say 'yes' now, but in ten years...

Edited: 06/26/2010 at 11:09AM

J Scott

Real Estate Investor · Atlanta, Georgia

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Jan 08 '10, 04:49 AM

Originally posted by Steve A

"I could have ripped out the flooring and replaced it with real wood for the amount of allowance you got, if I did my own labor and used pre-finished flooring."

OK, lets do the math... $2,200 credit / 800 square feet = $2.75 per sf.
good luck installing a floor at $2.75/sf.

3/4" solid oak with stain and 2 coats of poly is right around $3 for materials...so yes, if you're going to do it yourself, that's not far off...

Edited: 06/26/2010 at 11:09AM

J Scott, Lish Properties, LLC
Telephone: 770-906-6358
Website: http://www.123flip.com
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Bill Gulley

Real Estate Investor · Springfield, Missouri

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Jan 08 '10, 05:13 AM

Just four questions: What is your financial loss? What will it cost for you to be indemnified? Can you prove it was intentional? Is it worth it? Good Luck, Bill

Edited: 06/26/2010 at 11:09AM

Steve A

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Jan 08 '10, 06:17 AM

Four answers...
1. No immediate loss. But if I sell in 10 years and disclose that these are engineered floors that have already been refinished once, the resale value of the house would definitely take a hit. How much, I don't know.

3. Intentional? The realtor found out that the floors were not solid when she solicited a quote for having them refinished. She did not tell me until after closing. So, she knew before closing, but probably not when she listed the house.

2. and 4. What will it take to make me whole, and is it worth pursuing? A new hardwood floor, installed is going to cost $5000-$8000 (I'm guessing). Let's say a solid floor has an 80 year life and a engineered floor will last about 40 years. If the floor was solid, it would be about 1/8 used up. At $7500, that equates to $938 depreciation and book value of $6,562. The engineered floor is about 1/4 though it's life: depreciation o $1875 and is now worth $5625.
So, the value of the hurt is $937. Hardly worth perusing.

This deal is done. I've learned a little, and am ready to move on.

Now to the arguement on how I calculated damages... I did this in 3 mins so I'm sure its debatable.

Edited: 06/26/2010 at 11:09AM

P NW

· OR

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Jan 09 '10, 05:45 AM

[[[....good luck installing a floor at $2.75/sf.....]]]]

Just bought Bellawood solid rustic maple prefinished hardwood floor from lumber liquidators for $2.75 a square foot. They had a couple of different maples and oaks for that price. That did include a 20 cent a foot discount for buying over 500 sq feet.

Bought solid oak prefinished flooring for $1.50 a square ft from lumber liquidators, but it is a thin flooring. Good for selling because it is genuine solid oak, but I wouldn't install it in a house I was going to live in. Looks fabulous, though. I bought 1200 square feet so I got a discount and it was a bit less than $1.50. I don't remember how much discount; not much at that price.

Neither one of those floors was a second. They sell seconds for a lot cheaper, but I didn't want to buy without seeing, to know how much waste.

The unfinished flooring is about the same price, but install is pretty spendy, so I stick to the pre-finished and do it myself.

Edited: 06/26/2010 at 11:09AM

P NW

· OR

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Jan 09 '10, 05:47 AM

If you have absolute proof that the real estate agent knew it was engineered and told you it was solid, you might be able to make a claim against her errors and omissions insurance.

Take the issue up with her broker. He might make it right (out of her commission)

Edited: 06/26/2010 at 11:09AM by P NW