BiggerPockets

Is there such thing as a mentor who doesn't charge to teach you how to partner up with them? What ever happened to people who just want to "pay it forward" and genuinely help someone out?

Todd:

Do you ask your accountant to pay it forward and work for free? How about your attorney? How about anyone else that performs a valuable service for you? Did the college coursework (if you went) come free?

Why would you expect someone to take their time to educate you on a very sophisticated and time-consuming endeavor without getting compensated for it? There are charlatans and quacks in this business and others who are genuinely trying to help. All of the players want to get paid for their time though!

Read books, post on BP, observe, attend REIA functions, etc. All of those functions are FREE. Asking someone to coach and mentor you for free is completely unreasonable though.

I guess the hard part is finding someone who knows the game and knows it well but has admitted to themselves that they don't need any more money and just want the personal satisfaction of "teaching a man to fish."

Perhaps if you ask your questions on this forum - you could obtain some free pointers. Have you even tried this source? Perhaps you only tried the way the gurus suggest as to taking an investor to lunch and ask them to teach you everythig they learned over the years in the school of hard knocks for free. Sometimes you would be surprised what you can learn if you only ask the right questions. Personally, I would not get involved too closely to Realtors though. They are not in the real estate business as investors are. They are in the business for a commission.

Bryan,

I have absolutely no problem paying someone for a service such as an attorney or accountant. My college coursework (yes, I attended college) was probably the worst money I ever spent. Even if I got it for free (which is quite easy with a library card), I'd still be disappointed for wasting my time. The best books I ever read would never be considered "college material." I'm not so much looking for a mentor full-time or anything like that. The people on Bigger Pockets are great when a tiny question pops up. I guess, more than anything, what I would want is someone who I could partner up with who would make money but also be completely honest and actually know what they're doing to help guide me. I'm looking in to large multi-family properties but lack connections at banks. It could be a simple partnership. The reason I take issue with "so-called mentors" and "gurus" is that so many of them are phonies who truly don't have the same interests as me or my company. They only want to make money, they don't truly care to make lasting partnerships and make money along the way. I agree with "Realtyman" and his take on Realtors. Yes, there are some truly knowledgeable ones out there who want to help, but it's hard to find a Realtor who is first and foremost an investor looking to work with other investors.

I guess I'm just envious of the people who had "grandpa" or someone similar that was always there for them and really gave them a leg up. Grandpa never charged for advice or tried to profit in any way. He simply wanted the satisfaction of helping out. He always had great advice and knew a way to remedy every situation. I'm just jealous of that person.

Here's my take.

I started mentoring people 15 years ago so they'd bring me deals, but the thing was that 95% of those people did nothing with what they learned because they had nothing vested. So, so started charging for my time, $500, $1000, and more and more.

I've found that the more I charged for mentoring, the more people succeed because they are VESTED. Sure, there are some exceptions, go-getters who will reward me with a deal for sharing advice for free, but these are in the minority. Very few people will spend the necessary time that one needs to be coached and not expect something in return, and asking for something in return isn't a problem.

Like Bryan said above, people don't expect their doctor, accountant or attorney to work for free, so why would they expect a mentor to work for free?

I've received numerous offers to be mentored in exchange for bringing me 1/2 the profit on their first deal, but I laugh because it just doesn't work that way. I've given away coaching to several people as a door prize and those people all have something in common - they did nothing with it.

You don't necessarily have to join a formal coaching program, but be prepared to pay an expert for their time.

You're talking semantics JScott..."mentor" is just part of the lexicon that was used by the OP. I believe in substance over form and the question obviously had to do with an arrangement where the poster wanted services for nothing.

I voted for William's post because my experience has been pretty much the same. The people I find that are willing to invest money in their business, advertise, educate themselves, and get involved in general are the ones that are successful. If people are operating under the assumption that they can come in and stuff money into something and watch the money wash all over them they are not going to be successful growing a business. These people would be better off stuffing their money into passive investments and watching it grow while someone else manages it.

That is the primary reason we launched a separate brand called Wealth Aggregators. People have different wants and needs. Some people WANT to invest money passively and are too busy with other things to grow a business. Some people WANT to grow a business and put in the effort that it requires. Some people WANT to just source deal flow, become affiliates, broker, etc. Who is right? Nobody. Everyone has different goals in life and motivations.

There are several members of BP (not you BTW) that love to throw daggers at every "guru" program and treat them as one-size-fits-all charlatan-based hype session. IMO these members are, at best, misinformed. I know of 2-3 programs in Austin that are extremely reputable and place the carrot in the right place so that people aren't being fleeced out of money.

The bottom line is that learning the business is HARD WORK! We set this expectation with everyone we work with. Our program is set up only to take on 5-10 local clients...that's it! I don't see how anyone does an effective job of "mentoring," coaching, guiding, training, <insert synonym here>, more people than that. We have 3 coaches for that many people too. How anyone proposes to do an effective job mentoring hundreds at a time is beyond me. Perhaps they are herculean, but my suspicion is that they are indeed trying to line their pockets instead of ensuring that their students are successful.

My two cents...

I'm with J Scott on this. And he brings up a very good point. These "so-called mentors" are really just private trainers. It's no different from hiring a tutor. When I think of a mentor, I think of Mr. Miyagi from the movie "Karate Kid" or Obi Wan Kenobi to Luke Skywalker in "Star Wars." They allowed their proteges to make mistakes but guided them to learn from them. Merriam-Webster defines "Mentor" as: "a trusted counselor or guide." I guess when someone I don't know asks for money up front in exchange for a promise that they're going to teach me something useful doesn't fulfill the first part of that definition -- "a trusted..." I'd love to see someone with the balls to offer a "mentorship" program that requires no up-front cost and makes money as it goes along. There's nothing wrong with "pre-qualifying" a potential candidate by interviewing them before you teach them anything. I completely understand the cost of time and if you're looking for a mutually beneficial outcome, why not share the profits for a whole year or something?

I once paid a lady to teach me how to wholesale properties. She gave me some basic information on marketing, due diligence, and some legal stuff. Her information was good. The best part of her program was the fact that I literally spent a full week; probably around 45 hours with her. During that time, we set up my business, set up a marketing plan, received leads, contacted them and by the end of the week, we closed my first wholesale deal. We made a quick $5,000. That's all it took. I knew the process and it worked until I moved into the next level of real estate. I don't wholesale anymore but I could fall back on it. THAT is hands down the best "mentorship" I have ever had. It was pure 1-on-1 and she produced results in a week. Now, keep in mind, I wasn't new to real estate gong into that arrangement, but she told me generally it takes about a month for one of her students to do their first deal. The cool part is that I can still call her if I need to. She told me recently that she took on a student free of charge and the arrangement is that she will work hand-in-hand with him until they make $50,000. She is entitled to half of that. I think that is the best program I've ever heard of. She will not let you fail. I'd like to see someone offer a program like that in commercial real estate. I'd probably even agree to a higher split.

1. It separates tire-kickers from people that are serious
2. People generally don't put out enough ads to get deal flow when they are new
3. It allows us to teach while doing, which is the best way to do it

I don't think JScott and I really disagree on anything other than perhaps the meaning of the word "mentor" as it applies in the real estate investing arena. Mentor is synonymous with coach from what I have seen. I'm not saying it is right or that they are the same thing, but the REI parlance makes them the same for better or for worse from what I have seen.

Your statement above is flat-out wrong too. I have this conversation with other coaches in Austin that I consider to be scrupulous and that actually care about teaching their folks. People surprise you! Some people come from literally nothing and pull themselves up by their bootstraps via hard work and dedication. Others are wealthy at cushy jobs and find out that the business is too much work and fizzle out. How can you prequalify someone's character, work ethic, and dedication? That is exceedingly hard to do, but I guess you are the one person that can...congrats.