2nd Foreclosing Sub2 1st -- amout due on 1st??? 5 posts by 3 users

Posted: 05/04/2008 at 10:28AM

Unfortunately there is generally no way to determine the amount of the first lien, at least from any public document. For that reason we generally avoid buying a second at the auction, even when it looks like there might be significant equity in the deal.

The only way to get the current payoff information from the bank or the lawfirm is to get a release of information form signed by the property owner. Without that the bank won't give out the information.

As you stated - you can find out the original loan amount of the first lien, but with the late fees, interest, legal fees etc the current balance can be significantly higher than the original amount and it's not worth the risk if you can't verify it.

One other thing to keep in mind. Generally if there is a competitive bid situation on a first lien and the price gets driven up above the starting bid, that overage amount will go to pay off the second lien holders. However in many cases it does NOT work in the opposite direction. If the bidding on a second lien goes over the opening amount and there is an overage, the exceess funds do not necessarily go towards paying off the first lien. Seems illogical, but it's just one more reason to avoid bidding on seconds unless you have had a chance to view the loan documents and get the payoff amounts.

Posted: 05/15/2008 at 08:37AM

Have you checked to see if the debtor in ??? has exercised any bankruptcy rights? A quick pacer search by debtor's name will tell you if they have or not. Make sure you do a search in the court district in which they reside. Sometimes just a state search doesn't work.

If you'd like to have some help in skiptracing them it may be worth your while to email me. Also, have you determined if the lender that holds 1st does participate in note sales? One way to circumvent the debtor contact.Although some banks are getting tougher and tougher to buy notes unless their in large pools. But if you can get them to negoitate you may get them to give you a cbr. Or at least authorization to do a cbr to gain more info. As in this role you'd become the creditor. Which authorizes you to run credit info...

Also have you looked online county records or anything to see if they had tax records forwarded to a different address? Simple search...

Another great tool is ZABASEARCH.COM--If you know name, dob, any addresses they've resided at....Even if you can't find number at that location under debtor name...maybe title shows different name of ownership hence a different # to look for...

Accurint has or did have an exceptional finder for relatives, past employment...Neighbors sometimes do work well. Unless you live on my street and my neighbors LOVE ME...

I used to recover anywhere from $100k-$150k after loss mit depts of major banks wrote off accounts as a loss...So much so that I was known as DIGGER in my dept. Cause if someone truly had capability to rectify or pay I didn't give up till I found them...

So needless to say on some of these accounts I wonder how much of an effort the lender did put into actually trying to avoid taking the loss..One of the best ones I did was finding someone from an inquiry that no one could find...It was for a closing of a refi that debtor was doing...Inquiries on a cbr are a great help sometimes.

Maybe I'm not sure there might be companies that can obtain cbr without showing as an inquiry giving you some info...Maybe someone knows if these really happen seems like a online company did this at one time.

Best of Luck,

Kathy