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Unrecorded FC deed & Sr. Mtg...on my house

12 posts by 5 users

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Hannah Banque

Dec 17 '10, 08:15 AM


Hi everyone, my first post here.

I'm buying my first home and it's a foreclosure. Been empty for a year and only on the market for 5 weeks when I put a offer on it. We went under verbal contract Oct. 18, then under bonafide contract.

There is the issue of an unrecorded forclosure deed, and a 'senior mortgage' on the house of $23,000. Seems the morgage has been paid but 'not released'. I was to close Nov 23rd....but that came and went due to these two issues.

The sale is through Wells Fargo and I was offered free title work if I went with their company, via ServiceLink. I'm in Maine and ServiceLink is somewhere else, out of state.

The word I'm getting from ServiceLink reps is that they tried calling the number on the previous policy which is for Wachovia, but are getting no where with that (Wachovia bought by Wells Fargo = dead end, seemingly), and then there is a company called GreenLink involved (prior lender) and is not reachable (busy signal) by phone. This was the ServiceLink reps response Nov 29 and Dec 16.

I did my own Google search tonight and found that GreenLink and Wachovia are connected, and that in 2000 GreenLink did a merger type thing with LendingTree. http://www.lendingtree.com/about-us/press-room/news-releases/2004/greenlink-joint-venture/

Should my reps be calling LendingTree instead?

I have about $1,800 invested in the property via good faith money, appraisal and HO insurance, but I find I have much more invested emotionally in getting this cute little 1961 ranch house.

How hopeless is this situation? How long could this drag out? I'm 96% packed and living among a mountain of boxes!

How does the unrecorded foreclosure deed relate to the un-released Sr. Mortgage? Do they relate to each other at all? I've asked my reps these questions but am getting no answers. Just the stock reply of who he's tried to reach and that there is no ETA at this time. :cry:

Any insights to this situation for me?

Thank you for any replies...

hannah



Justin S. Donor

Rehabber from Chandler, Arizona

Dec 17 '10, 08:28 AM


Is the senior mortgage from a previous homeowner than the one that was foreclosed? (Two homeowners ago)



Medium_rezamp_buscard_whiteJustin S., Rezamp, LLC
E-Mail: [email protected]
Telephone: 4806780446
Website: http://www.rezamp.com
ReZamp Webinar Tuesday June 24th at 2PM


Hannah Banque

Dec 17 '10, 08:47 AM


No. Both from the same homeowner. She inherited the house but never lived in it. She's happily living two cities over from us. lol



Bill Gulley

Real Estate Investor from Springfield, Missouri

Dec 17 '10, 09:41 AM


I'm only going off the second paragraph as info and from that I can only advise that you look up the foreclosure, get the date and from there you can find the Trustee who sold the property, either an attorney or the sherriff in that county/parish/commonwealth. Ask them to deleiver the deed of that sale. They usually have thirty days or less to file it. I'm assuming it was paid at sale for 23K.

You really don't have to search who is who today, it's who performed the sale then. It's usually paid through the clerk of court, so there schould be a record of the sale at the courthouse.

Unrecorded means lost. It's the Trustee that needs to get in gear. IMO Good luck

If you have no pending action on the property, you can also ask the title company if they would be willing to insure over the sale, that may depend on how long ago it was, if they will insure it, you're good to go....usually. Good luck.



Steve Babiak

Real Estate Investor from Audubon, Pennsylvania

Dec 17 '10, 12:24 PM


For mortgages that have been paid, there should be a (state law) deadline for recording either the satisfaction or release of that mortgage. The original lender is on the hook for that, or whoever the successor to that lender might be.

Now, if that senior lien was the one that was foreclosed upon, then there might not be a satisfaction or release, just a sheriff's deed (at least that is the case in my area). In this scenario, the senior lien was paid off with the foreclosure.

Another possible scenario is that the foreclosure was on a junior lien, in which case the bank with the junior lien has to pay off that senior lien. That can happen anytime before you buy, including when you go to your closing; the escrow company will set aside funds from your purchase to pay off that lien so that you get title free of that encumbrance.



Steve Babiak, Redeeming Properties, LLC
Telephone: 6109082183
...


Hannah Banque

Dec 18 '10, 03:13 AM


Thank you for the replies.

I remembered this early on conversation with the title folks and dug it out:

FC deed has not been recorded. We need for a discharge or HUD-1 and payoff/disbursement info for the 2003 Wachovia loan #8XXXXXXX which is when the Genisys /Amaximis Lending, LP loan was paid off. The mortgage was recorded 11/24/03 in Book XXXX, Page XXX. We believe it was paid off but neither Genisys nor Amaximis are in business.

So we have two defunct companies (Genisys & Amaximis), and in addition, we have Wachovia, GreenLink, and Wells Fargo all with their hands in this. My best guess is that with the first two companies going out of business something definitely fell through the cracks, and now they don't know how to fix it.

I found all sorts of links for GreenLink Title Company, so I have no idea what one number MY title guy is using that he's just getting a busy signal from. That doesn't make sense to me given that they've merged with LendingTree and that company is accessable. How can he not have found that on the net like I did?

I might just have to go do the search myself....

Thank you again for your suggestions and thoughts.

hannah



Justin S. Donor

Rehabber from Chandler, Arizona

Dec 18 '10, 03:20 AM


FC deed has not been recorded. We need for a discharge or HUD-1 and payoff/disbursement info for the 2003 Wachovia loan #8XXXXXXX which is when the Genisys /Amaximis Lending, LP loan was paid off. The mortgage was recorded 11/24/03 in Book XXXX, Page XXX. We believe it was paid off but neither Genisys nor Amaximis are in business.

How was the loan paid-off in 2003, through a sale of the property or a refinance?



Medium_rezamp_buscard_whiteJustin S., Rezamp, LLC
E-Mail: [email protected]
Telephone: 4806780446
Website: http://www.rezamp.com
ReZamp Webinar Tuesday June 24th at 2PM


Hannah Banque

Dec 18 '10, 03:49 AM


Not sure. I'm on the city accessor's page now and the owner who was foreclosed on aquired(inherited) the house in 1999, and from my title persons communication, foreclosed on by 2003.

This is my first ever delve into the world of homeownership, so I know squat...bear with me. :D

So, wouldn't it be the lender/bank that eats that money owed? And if so, then the original lenders which are defunct companies, have paid that off but didn't finish the paperwork in time and now it's lost in this black hole of red tape. That's my best guess.

How can a home sit from 2003 when it was foreclosed on until 2010 when it was finally put on the market for sale?

As my contract stands now, I had to extend my rate lock (4.5) for 28 days to the tune of $935, of which thankfully the seller (Wells Fargo) agreed to pay at closing since it was a seller title issue. That extension will expire on 1/5/2011. They then are looking at my asking for a reduced rate in the price of the house to cover any increase in mtg rates, which were up to 4.75 last I checked. One would think that would motivate them....

I know I'm not much help. I've got more questions than answers for you.

hannah



Chris Martin

Real Estate Investor from Holly Springs, North Carolina

Dec 18 '10, 06:25 AM


Sounds like you already have a closing attorney selected. Regarding "I was offered free title work if I went with their company, via ServiceLink..." sounds liek you got what you paid for. As Financexaminer points out, whoever is going to do the title work needs to look at the foreclosure sale and find out what is going on with the deed. You are in Maine? So there was a judicial foreclosure with redemption rights? Do the rights start at sale or deed recording? I think it is from the deed recording (which has yet to happen?), but your closing attorney should know this. The only advice I can add is to not get too emotionally attached to this property. I don't because I am an investor, but when I look at this case I see 'bad' written all over it. When buying REOs, I use an attorney who has lots of experience with trustee sales and I pay for title work. That way I can bang on their cage if I have to (but I don't have to because they are good.) If I were you I'd hound the closing attorney to get a competent person doing the title exam and get an attorney's opinion. Or get another attorney. Just my 2 cents.



Hannah Banque

Dec 18 '10, 11:00 PM


Thank you very much for your message.

I spoke with my agent and she's to call a title friend of hers tomorrow and run this scenario past him and ask if it's worth it to me to pay for the title work. She's sure he'll be honest and not just say 'yes' to get the money. She's been a great asset to me through this whole process and keeping after the title company I'm currently using....but alas getting not much of anywhere.

I opted for the free title work to save on X amount being added to my monthly mortgage payment. I'm 56, and not getting any younger, so a reasonable mo. payment is paramount to me, as I will surely be looking at taxes and HO insurance rising over the years. So, that's why I made that ill decision. I've decided to pay for the title work out of pocket should my agents title person think this is something that can get sorted out.

I have been very attached to this property, but find that waining lately and went out to look at other homes yesterday.

Thank you VERY much for your reply.

hannah



Chris Martin

Real Estate Investor from Holly Springs, North Carolina

Dec 19 '10, 01:38 AM


?
"I opted for the free title work to save on X amount being added to my monthly mortgage payment."

How much are they charging you for title work? I would expect the sum of all the 1100 series charges (on the HUD-1 under Title Charges) to be <1% of your contract price.



Hannah Banque

Dec 19 '10, 02:44 AM


Two different charges for Title Insurance on my itemized disclosure thing, one at $175, the other at $362 = $537.

The house is $117K, but the loan (with closing fees and such rolled in) comes to 124K.



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