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Commercial Landlord · Oshkosh, Wisconsin


Yes i agree with separation of electric utilities, but when I buy multi units without separated utilities i subtract the cost of separation off the price. When i bought a 4 unit months back I also bought in an area where homes sell between 60 and 80k and I paid 32k for this 4 unit.
My 4 rents are 1700 per mo and I pay 450 in utilities on average per mo.
I negotiated a 10 year contract with sellers with 3k down. They also own free and clear and I see ab out a 2k per door in upgrades over time to bring out of the 1980's. My building sits on a double lot so plenty of space for parking and a yard as well as a 2 car garage for free storage for me. The building has a arv of about 60k and is taxes at 65k.
I use this example to show you what I mean in regards to numbers.
The neighborhood is stabilized and there has not been a murder within a mile of the property in many years. This property may not be something i would buy for appreciation but I never buy for that. I buy for 2 reasons cash flow and an instant spread I can sell and make money on if i decided to.
Its hard to make lots of offers and go away empty handed so here is an idea rather then quit in your negotiations I have a tendency to make my low offer and just tell them please hold my phone number and call me back if you cannot sell it in a reasonable time frame. If you walk away and your friendly when u part ways, you have a good chance over time of a some of your deals coming full circle back into your arms again later.
The 4 unit I talked about above was a deal that toke 9 months to buy. The owners left town and finally they called the broker and said go ahead and take his offer of 32k. We were almost 10k apart when they left town. 4 months of managing out of town made owners decide to come back to negotiation table and finally settle on my price of 32k.
This is your business dont accept other peoples numbers for what cash flows in your business.



· Michigan


Thanks for the reply @William Bannister. That is a great example of getting a property at a discount for sure! Hopefully I will pull off a few of those in my career :)

This 6-plex has very good "eye appeal" for the area and is 1 block from the college in town so it has a very good location. Also, once rents are raised closer to market levels on 2 of the units it should be bringing in approximately $34,260 gross. After expenses based upon his prior tax returns and the inclusion of debt service the number is closer to $12,800 net (my down payment is $20,000). Where on a 10-cap basis values the property at $128,000 and/or $12,800/$20,000 is a 64% return on cash invested or about 1.5 years till it returns all cash invested and playing with the "house's money".

My goal is to buy and "never" sell so I am okay with buying at market value on this property given it's cashflow, although it certainly won't be a home-run by appreciation standards, by the time I'd sell (ideally) a modest 2-3% over 30+ years it should hold it's value ;). My goal is to accumulate enough rental income to live off of. and once the house is "free and clear" in 10 years, the net should be closer to $21,800 a year. At that rate I'd only need to find a few more of these properties to reach my goal and I'd be on my way to setting a larger goal!



· Michigan


**Update**

Had the inspection done today. The seller walked us through and opened the doors to the units for the inspector and myself. There were a couple of units that I did not see on the first pass that we went into.

1 unit is absolutely filthy (pizza boxes, clothes, trash, etc everywhere throughout apartment) and the other unit is a lady's that has been renting for about 35 years he said (she is around 80) and she has wallpapered everything, even wallpapered the ceilings with some sort of white paper! Those 2-units were disasters. The other 4 seemed to be in reasonable condition.

There were multiple GFCI outlets that didn't work. The basement was also quite intimidating with wiring all over the place from different work done through the years, even before the current owner. One renter (from the filthy unit) said that their light didn't work and something "went-out" in the unit next to him too. So I don't know if that is further trouble waiting to happen as well. The house was built around 1890 or so with add-on jobs in the basement it looked sketchy.

The inspector and seller knew each other and are friends... but at the end when the seller left the inspector told me he wanted to go over some of his concerns with me on Saturday to discuss potential expenses/work that needs to be done in the home. He didn't hint too much on what concerned him today, but he did mention that he wouldn't buy a multi-unit house where all of the utilities aren't separated (he has done some rentals of his own as well). In this building 2 of the 6 are on their own and the other 4 share. He came across as this being my first one, he doesn't want me to bite off more than I can chew!

More details to come after our meeting Saturday morning, however seeing the basement and the 1 unit made me a little uneasy as there seems to be a lot of work to be done to get things "right".



· Michigan


**Update**

Was concerned about electrical issues after the initial inspection so had a family friend, also one of the best electricians in the area, check out the house. He said he thinks that everything is fine it was just done in a sloppy manner.

We are scheduled to close on 2/7/13!

I am also scheduled to sit down with the seller for a bit of a "boot camp" about how he ran the property over the last 25+ years.



· Michigan


**Update**

Just got back from closing on my 6-unit house! I'm an official investor having completed my first deal! Thanks for everyone on this thread as well as the BP community in general. It was great coming from closing with Prorated rent in hand. I know there will be bumps along the way, but I'm excited to start out on this journey! Thanks again everyone!

Sat with the seller for 2 hours discussing the business and the property after close. Meeting him again Saturday for further discussion. He has many great stories and insights. I feel fortunate to have his input with this being my first deal.



· Michigan


deposited my first rent checks... sure is a good feeling!!

Found out that some tenants are moving end of march, so I will have my first crack at finding/approving new tenants. Somewhat of a daunting task, haha.



Residential Landlord · Lima, Ohio


@Kurt K. You’ve done everything the right way. Congrats!

The next deal you do has to be better than this one. The weak spot in this deal was the amount of down-payment in my opinion (20%). It’s not bad but you can improve on the next deal. Good for you Kurt


Small_logo_03Ben Leybovich, JustAskBenWhy.com
E-Mail: [email protected]
Telephone: 1.888.508.9643
Website: http://www.JustAskBenWhy.com
Ben Leybovich, Syndicator / Creator of Cash Flow Freedom University http://www.JustAskBenWhy.com


· Michigan


Thanks @Ben Leybovich.

The down came to 19860, after some prorating. so out of 125000 purchase the down percentage was 15.8%

But I love the challenge of finding one better than this for my next deal! My goal is $10,000/mo gross rents by 2018 and this 1 property gets me to 2500/mo now and I plan on getting rents to market for 3000/mo. So I'm excited that this first property has me well on my way (25-30%) to my goal.

BP is a great site for not only information but support from experienced people such as yourself. Thank you!



Residential Landlord · Lima, Ohio


@Kurt K. Your goal is very doable. The most difficult part is going to be coming up with down-payments, which is why I encourage and challenge you to do your next deal with no more than 10% down.

But hold off. Manage and stabilize what you've got first. Automate things as much as possible. You've done well. Congrats!!!


Small_logo_03Ben Leybovich, JustAskBenWhy.com
E-Mail: [email protected]
Telephone: 1.888.508.9643
Website: http://www.JustAskBenWhy.com
Ben Leybovich, Syndicator / Creator of Cash Flow Freedom University http://www.JustAskBenWhy.com


· Michigan


Great Advice about the down payment choke point. And yes I plan on building a 6 month rent/expenses reserve before I look at any additional expanding. As well as there are a few small changes I want to make in my first property.

Luckily I have a "day job" where I should be able to save up for down payments if something were to pop up on the market before I had planned on being ready.

Hopefully I will have more to contribute to the site in the future as of now I'm mainly a "taker" of information :)



· Michigan


Had one of the tenants call about some possible repairs that they want done. I am going over to look at what he wants done tomorrow. It almost sounded like he wanted to do the repairs himself (I assume this is a bad idea??) but I'm not sure. I know that before purchasing the building their unit was very dirty. So I don't want to repair things cosmetically that will just get torn up again. Or can I suggest that they pay for the repairs that they want (if above the general wear and tear threshold?). How do you experience landlords handle these requests?



Commercial Real Estate Broker · New Jersey


A lot of good answers here but one key is to remember that these properties are valued based on the income they produce rather than comps of single family houses.



· Michigan


Thanks for the reply Anthony P. I have already closed on the property and have been using this thread for continuing questions for people that have helped so far.

Maybe I will start a new thread for this repairs question (how easy is it to get the tenant to pay for a repair they want that is above normal wear and tear?) as this thread is starting to get a little lengthy.



· Lake Havasu City, Arizona


Well, it's been about a year now, but this was a great thread. Do you have any fun/crazy tenant stories yet? I'd love to hear of any updates. Congrats on the purchase!



· Michigan


Nothing too crazy but it was a good first year. After about 2 months of ownership I raise the rents about $5,000 per year for the property. No tenants complained of the change, as rents hadn't been raised in a long time. Also about 2 months in one of the tenants was arrested and put in jail, but a relative came and took his stuff so I had a chance to remodel the kitchen in that unit. I also had incidence of a stubborn roof leak and the fitting that hooks up to the city water underground cracked and water was flooding around the sidewalk! Luckily have a repair guy/contractor that invests himself and had been taking care of the property for the previous owner so he has really helped with repairs and upgrades (buying cheap but durable materials, etc)

All in all a very good year. Luckily all of the repair "surprises" worked out just fine in the end. I only cash flowed a few thousand in the year but between the updates and principal pay off (on pace for a 9 year payoff) I actually was very happy with the cash flow + equity build up.

I'm looking forward to owning it free and clear. At that point it should cash flow roughly $18,000 a year.

I am also looking to possibly buy 15 out of 18 units from another person. So that would in effect meet my goal 4 years ahead of schedule. Still very early in the process, but hopefully something will come of it. If this deal were to happen, I would reach financial independence (cash flow from rentals much more than living expenses) in 10 or less years from now! Hoping for a good 2014!





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