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Forums » General Real Estate Investing » Just Brainstorming.... What ways can an individual invest in real estate PASSIVELY, with minimal risk, and get 5-15% ROI?

Just Brainstorming.... What ways can an individual invest in real estate PASSIVELY, with minimal risk, and get 5-15% ROI? Subscribe to Just Brainstorming.... What ways can an individual invest in real estate PASSIVELY, with minimal risk, and get 5-15% ROI?

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Property Manager · Cleveland, Ohio


Okay I am up late its 1am and I thought of a question for the BP community...

Is there a way for an individual to passively invest in real estate with minimal risk, achieve decent returns; for arguments sake 5-15% and avoid anything related to buying stocks, mutual funds etc?

I know the obvious answer is probably tax certificates and private lending. But I am fairly new to REI especially when it comes to creative financing and private lending. What other strategies are there that fit the aforementioned criteria?

The main objective of this question is to get as many responses as possible to educate those looking to passively invest in RE. Also looking to maybe come up with some suggestions for those I encounter who wont actively invest in RE themselves.

I personally want to have active investments in RE like rehabs, rentals, etc. But I also want to get a return on liquid capital that I can put to work in passive investments...


Real Estate Investor · Holly Springs, North Carolina


Regarding "Is there a way for an individual to passively invest in real estate with minimal risk, achieve decent returns; for arguments sake 5-15% and avoid anything related to buying stocks, mutual funds etc?" The answer is yes.

I think you nailed the obvious methods (tax certificates/liens and private lending). In addition, you may consider RE notes and options. Many on BP will say notes (discounted notes) are the way to go. The game is to mitigate risk. For private lending, you can mitigate risk in multiple ways. Making only first position, low LTV loans on already rehabbed, high cash flow property will reduce default risk considerably. Possibly a good target are people with self directed IRAs who bought investment property with cash... who might legerage their investment at (say) 40% or 50% LTV.


Property Manager · Cleveland, Ohio


Thanks for the response Chris and a good one at that. Are there any additional ways to mitigate risk that you or anyone else can think of?

Are there any firms or companies that offer hands off investing opportunities with a proven track record for obtaining their investors returns with a low loss record?


Real Estate Investor · Milwaukee, Wisconsin


Dionte,
There is a lot of risk in lending unless you do a lot of it. It is like insurance. You need to spread the risk out over a large number of people because you will win some and you will loose some.



I am interested in finding hard money lenders to invest a few bucks with. But, before I do, what questions do I need to ask them, what information do I need, what assurances need I get, what should I expect in return?
thanks.
Read


Real Estate Investor · St. Paul, Minnesota


Also, investing in notes would not be considered fully passive. In order to find the notes, service them and collect when they default is FAR from passive! If everything goes really well and you bought a note through a broker then I suppose it could be fairly passive but we all know this is not a "perfect" business!


Real Estate Investor · South Carolina


Originally posted by Chris Martin
Possibly a good target are people with self directed IRAs who bought investment property with cash... who might legerage their investment at (say) 40% or 50% LTV.

It is my understanding that the investment must be fully funded by the IRS to remain tax deferred. It outside financing (recourse financing where the IRA owner personally guarantees the loan) brings Unrelated Business Debt Financing into play and makes some portion of the income earned by that investment taxable. Defeats the tax shelter the IRA was supposed to provide.


Real Estate Investor · South Carolina


Originally posted by Chris Martin
Possibly a good target are people with self directed IRAs who bought investment property with cash... who might legerage their investment at (say) 40% or 50% LTV.

If the investment uses recourse financing (where the IRA owner personally guarantees the loan), then the income allocated to the portion of the investment that is financed becomes subject to UBTI.

Soft of defeats the tax advantage the IRA is supposed to provide.


Real Estate Investor · Holly Springs, North Carolina


Originally posted by Dave T
Originally posted by Chris Martin
Possibly a good target are people with self directed IRAs who bought investment property with cash... who might legerage their investment at (say) 40% or 50% LTV.

If the investment uses recourse financing (where the IRA owner personally guarantees the loan), then the income allocated to the portion of the investment that is financed becomes subject to UBTI.

Soft of defeats the tax advantage the IRA is supposed to provide.

Not as important for me to use recourse financing at 40% LTV.


Real Estate Investor · Holly Springs, North Carolina


(Note: not an endorsement) One other option (that I no longer do, BTW) is to lend via a peer-peer network like prosper or lendingClub. These sites do some/most(?) of the due diligence and theoretically mitigate their unsecured personal loans. If they ever add the opportunity for secured lending, they will revolutionize hard money lending.

As for risk, I look at avoidance and mitigation (reduction) across: property, management, finances, and entity. Regarding "...additional ways to mitigate risk...", keep a score card on each risk category and develop your own method. I use a table with multiplicative weights to help in my SDIRA lending. For example, I prefer to lend on an already performing property since there is significantly less property risk. If any category is zero, then the (multiplicative) result is zero and an opportunity not worth pursuing. Other examples... you can ask for the property financials and verify the property income has a chance to support the proposed debt financing. If the answer is there is no way to know because we haven't bought the property yet, then maybe you need to see that the company has a history of successes before going forward. The point is to develop your own systems....

Regarding "Are there any firms or companies that offer hands off investing opportunities with a proven track record for obtaining their investors returns with a low loss record?" I'm sure there are, but like a lot of things in this business... it's a matter of finding and vetting them. Serious players should be able to readily provide a history (a resume) of their lending along with supporting links/documents to courthouse records, etc.


Property Manager · Cleveland, Ohio


Originally posted by Chris Martin
(Note: not an endorsement) One other option (that I no longer do, BTW) is to lend via a peer-peer network like prosper or lendingClub. These sites do some/most(?) of the due diligence and theoretically mitigate their unsecured personal loans. If they ever add the opportunity for secured lending, they will revolutionize hard money lending.

As for risk, I look at avoidance and mitigation (reduction) across: property, management, finances, and entity. Regarding "...additional ways to mitigate risk...", keep a score card on each risk category and develop your own method. I use a table with multiplicative weights to help in my SDIRA lending. For example, I prefer to lend on an already performing property since there is significantly less property risk. If any category is zero, then the (multiplicative) result is zero and an opportunity not worth pursuing. Other examples... you can ask for the property financials and verify the property income has a chance to support the proposed debt financing. If the answer is there is no way to know because we haven't bought the property yet, then maybe you need to see that the company has a history of successes before going forward. The point is to develop your own systems....

Regarding "Are there any firms or companies that offer hands off investing opportunities with a proven track record for obtaining their investors returns with a low loss record?" I'm sure there are, but like a lot of things in this business... it's a matter of finding and vetting them. Serious players should be able to readily provide a history (a resume) of their lending along with supporting links/documents to courthouse records, etc.

Another great response!

What reasons are you opposed to investing through prosper and lending club? Im very familiar with the both of them. I dont think ohio is a state that can invest on their website yet.


Property Manager · Cleveland, Ohio


Originally posted by Jeffrey K.
Dionte,
There is a lot of risk in lending unless you do a lot of it. It is like insurance. You need to spread the risk out over a large number of people because you will win some and you will loose some.

Jeffery;

Thanks for the response. I assume that you have done your fair share of private lending. If so what did you specifically look for in the notes or the project or person or company you invested in. And how passive would you say this type of lending has been for you?


Real Estate Investor · Minnesota


I havn't seen anyone state the obvious answer; to get best passive investment plan first you must know 1) your resources at hand and 2) the best applications of those resources.

Cash, credit, connections, know how, SEO savvy, on and on, each lends a totally different and unique set of oppertunity, first you must have a good analysis of what bullets you hold in your belt.

In my opinion, best passive investment in any is to JV with a really smart, good, under backed investor in that field. Become the enabler for the ball buster. That works for any and all fields.


Property Manager · Cleveland, Ohio


Originally posted by M Read
I am interested in finding hard money lenders to invest a few bucks with. But, before I do, what questions do I need to ask them, what information do I need, what assurances need I get, what should I expect in return?
thanks.
Read

I'll try to take a stab at this one although I have never invested with one.

Ive noticed that most Ive seen most HMLs that have websites have some type of informational pdf document or powerpoint presentation or you tube video as an ice breaker. So that would be a start; obtaining some introductory information. If all seems well from the introduction. Then I would do my due diligence on the company. GOOGLE the name of the company and any officers or money managers for complaints/disputes. Then check the bbb and state attorney generals office for outstanding complaints.

Im sure you already know this but you must clearly define your risk tolerance and the type of projects you want to invest in. Hard money I assume is usually risky since the return is so high.

I would ask questions like;

What type of projects do they invest in?

How many properties have you had to foreclose on?

What type of active investors do you lend to? RE investment companies, individuals.

How experienced are the individuals you lend to? What is your lending criteria?

Why should you choose them over any other company?

These are a few I could come up with hope this helps...

Feel free to add!!!


Property Manager · Cleveland, Ohio


Originally posted by james hamling
I havn't seen anyone state the obvious answer; to get best passive investment plan first you must know 1) your resources at hand and 2) the best applications of those resources.

Cash, credit, connections, know how, SEO savvy, on and on, each lends a totally different and unique set of oppertunity, first you must have a good analysis of what bullets you hold in your belt.

In my opinion, best passive investment in any is to JV with a really smart, good, under backed investor in that field. Become the enabler for the ball buster. That works for any and all fields.

Thanks James!

I like your response I think this gives someone the ability to structure their start in seeking passive RE investments...


Real Estate Investor · Holly Springs, North Carolina


Originally posted by james hamling
In my opinion, best passive investment in any is to JV with a really smart, good, under backed investor in that field. Become the enabler for the ball buster. That works for any and all fields.

I guess I've never considered joint venture investing as minimal risk. I'd be curious to know how what specific processes, actions, contracts, etc. you use to minimize risk.


Real Estate Investor · Holly Springs, North Carolina


Regarding "What reasons are you opposed to investing through prosper and lending club? Im very familiar with the both of them. I dont think ohio is a state that can invest on their website yet." I can't invest with prosper.com even if I wanted to because of injunctions levied by the state of NC. prosper.com violated federal and state securities laws many years ago... and even thought they have corrected the disclosure and securities law problems, NC will not remove (apparently) the cease and desist order.


Real Estate Investor · Minnesota


Thanks Dionte G., I appreciate the compliment.

I will try to touch on a lot here to answer all I can quick:

Hard money lenders:
I use em, know em very well. To find an expensive one is easy, they have web sites you can find thru google, but they will "fee" you to death. Best way i have found to find a good one, network network network. Everyone is keeping them secret, because they are a literal gold mine.
With a Hard Money lender, they will be interviewing you, not you them. They will want to know why "you" will be a good investment, and how you can proove it. No experience and no rock solid plan = no money. My #1 hard money guy lends me with $0.00 fees, not 1 cent other then points and A.P.R. on the money. It is so rare. I meet him thru a friend investor, who had to introduce me because we were J.V.'ing on a project, lol. I had a track record as a contractor for investors, so I had the plan, the proof, so I got the money.

Start with does not require your money, JV with someone who has money or can get it. Buy on seller financing. Use equity from something you already own. On and on and on.....

See, being a real estate investor has little to do with property, and everything to do with "deal engineering". A real estate investor is full time problem solving super star. Put 10 of us in a room for 20 minutes and we would solve the U.S. economy, world hunger, and probably cure 1/2 of all cancer, lol. We are problem junkies, we love solving the unsolvable and earning great returns doing it.
If that is not you, it is ok, embrace it, and find what you ARE and what way to best invest as that. Hard Money lenders are NOT problem junkies, they HATE problems, lol, and they make very good returns. 1st take stock of who you are, what your are willing to become, then your resources, battle plan, and take action. Recognize, analyize, plan, execute.

As far as risk mitigation goes, more risk = more profit, less risk = less profit. That is a general rule, and there are exceptions, but the exceptions are rare to non existent, and always complicated because it is a solution some problem junkie devised, like redemptions. Redemptions are awesome, but for me to explaine how to do one, lmao, would be a novel.


Real Estate Lender · Philadelphia, Pennsylvania


I am not a big fan of total passive investing when it comes to real estate. Perhaps I am a control freak, but I have found that I do best when I somehow work along side my investment. At the very least, please make effort to do your homework prior to investing.

In the case of being the private lender, make certain that you do the following: Only 1st lien position, visit the property, conduct your research on current market value & current market trends, as well as future projected market trends for that immediate area, have a professional appraisal conducted on the property by an appraiser of your choice, research local laws pertaining to foreclosure process & costs, conduct a lien search, make certain that the property does not have a ground rental attached to it that is owned by a separate party (as this can jump in front of the mortgages on collection/foreclosure), consider having the borrower gain a term life insurance policy with the lender (you or your entity) as the beneficiary (might help in case there are problems with probate in case of borrower death), research state laws pertaining to lending to be certain of maximum interest rate/points/fees allowed by law, and also if a license is required for this form of lending in that particular state (in some states if you loan to a person, it is considered consumer lending, but if you loan to an entity, it is considered commercial lending, and the laws apply differently for each type of lending), have as much collateral for the loan as possible, even consider cross-collateralizing of another property if possible, just to name a few.


Real Estate Investor · Minnesota


There is 1 passive investment possability, if your willing to waite a few weeks. Turn key rental investments

My partners and I are opening a new division where we use our banking interests to gain properties, fully rehab them, install a top prop. managment co. we have ties with, install a renter, and we resell them as a full turn key rental investment.
All you (the investor buyer) needs to do, is 1)wake up and breath 2)watch your bank account recieve rent payments 3)write and pay your bills like tax's and payments. thats it. A literal hand feed profiting investment, with all the work done.
We are also working a deal to offer seller financing, so you would need about 10% purchase price out of pocket, which is offset by the deposits you recieve the day you purchase (1st mnth, last mnth, security)

Why are we making this offering? Because EVERYONE wins. We make money on rehab, the investor makes money on renting, managment company makes money on managing. The only looser is the bank, who sells to us at a huge discount....... but....... we ALL paid them already via bail out bucks so...... we all win.

This is truly the ONLY low risk, low work, low investment, easy, verefied, cash producing investment in R.E.I. I know of. If anyone knows difernt, please correct me. Seriously, I have looked and don't know of any legit person doing this.

And yes, i know of other "turn key" systems, everyone I have checked has been a scam of some sort. Requires escrow to bid, we don't, has fees, we don't, has cash flow based upon projections, we have it producing before sale, and so on. We just build em, rent em, have em cash flow producing and 100% hands off, and sell em.
We look at each other every day asking "how could we be the only ones?" but I am reminded, someone has always been first at anything, maybe were just the first at this here.

And yes, we hold some. I could hold all and be greedy, but I figure I can split it 50/50, hold and be greedy on half, and share the wealth on half and earn. I am an open book guy, I make profits on my rehab. If you look into investment JV's like this, thats what you want, an open book honest guy who says "hey, you will make money and so do I, I make this much here doing XYZ".
People who hide things have things to hide, and I have yet to have something good and wonderful hidden from me.




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