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Forums » Tax, Legal Issues, Contracts, Self-Directed IRA » Filing Taxes for LLC - using Form 1065 K-1, etc

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I am member of a LLC (more than 1 member) that was formed in 2007 and we buy and sell residential property. I am getting ready to prepare tax form 1065 (and the related K-1 forms). We have bought & sold 2 properties within the tax year 2007. On form 1065, I'm assuming that our proceeds from closings would go on the line " Gross receipts & sales" and that our purchase price + rehab expenses + selling expenses, etc. would go on the line " Cost of Goods Sold" (via sch A). And since we are not talking about long-term capital gains (property held less than 12 months) then rehab expenses that I would normally think of as being capitalized (like adding a new bathroom) are not really capitallized (and depreciated) because of the short-term nature of this type of transaction. For general LLC expenses that are not related to specific houses I intend to put these on lines 9-21 on form 1065. What flaws do you see in this logic? Thanks in advance for your time!


Real Estate Investor · Portland, Oregon


You are brave...

I would suggest you see an accountant. I don't mean to offend anyone here... I just don't know if I would get "tax advice" from a bunch of Investors.

I have found that a tax person can almost always save in taxes, equal to, or greater than their fee.

Personally... that stuff scares me... You are brave!

Best of luck!


Accountant · Newtown, Connecticut


First to reply to your questions:

Your " Gross receipts & Sales" are the selling price of these properties and not the " sales proceeds" from the closing. The Cost of goods sold would comprise of all the expenses on the closing document, ie. - realtor commissions, attorney & closing costs. Since these are properties that held for sale and [NOT] investment, then all of your rehab expense (regardless of held for less than 12 months) is not depreciable. These are Cost of Goods Sold.

Short term and Long term capital gains will not be considered here as this is all ordinary income from a trade or business and will documented on page 1 of your 1065.

Joe


Real Estate Investor · Portland, Oregon


Wow... Im confused!

That's why you have a screen name like RECPATAXMAN (Real Estate CPA Tax Man).

Sounds like a great answer to me... I still scared though!


Accountant · Newtown, Connecticut


EricFoster - thanks. Yes, I am a CPA with real estate tax expertise from a Big 4 Firm. I can provide guidance, but as you state, it can get tricky. Help from an experienced CPA is a plus.

Bob_in_VA - I'm in VA also and I can help you if you get confused or would like a more indepth explaination of some tricky items. Feel free to PM me with any questions.

I will have to say that you have chosen the wrong entity for the type of business you are running. Using an LLC for this ordinary trade or business will cost an additional 15.3% in Self-Employment taxes. You should be using an S-corporation for this business since an S-corporation is not subject to SE tax. You should pay yourself a modest salary ($500 a month) and the rest would be non-taxable distributions.

An LLC is a right choice for Rental Real Estate activities, but not for Rehabbing or a flipping operation such as yours.

Joe


Real Estate Consultant · OK


Get a CPA! I am a bookkeeper and have prepared individual and small business taxes (Sch C) for years, and even I don't do corporation or partnership returns.

There are too many tax laws and loopholes to keep track of. A good CPA who specializes in real estate will be able to get you the best return on your money. There are special ways to handle depreciation and deductions that your RE CPA will know that you won't.

Shop around, CPA's range in price from $85.00/hr to $300+/hr, more expensive doesn't always mean better.



This is a question for Joe: If you are in the business of property development, are sales of homes considered capital gains, or ordinary income? Also, do you depreciate rehabbed property that you rent?


Real Estate Investor · South Carolina


Originally posted by Joe Wilson

I will have to say that you have chosen the wrong entity for the type of business you are running. Using an LLC for this ordinary trade or business will cost an additional 15.3% in Self-Employment taxes. You should be using an S-corporation for this business since an S-corporation is not subject to SE tax. You should pay yourself a modest salary ($500 a month) and the rest would be non-taxable distributions.

An LLC is a right choice for Rental Real Estate activities, but not for Rehabbing or a flipping operation such as yours.

Joe


Joe,

If you are really a CPA, I am surprised that you give this advice. An LLC treated as an S-corp for tax purposes will enjoy the same tax treatment as the S-corp. The LLC can pay the member a salary and the LLC's net income is also passed through as ordinary income on Schedule K-1 free from SE taxes.

Compared with the S-Corp, the LLC is a more informal organization, does not issue stock and does not have the same rigorous standard for corporate maintenance.

The S-corp is exposed to attack by creditors. If the owner is personally sued, all his personally owned assets are at risk including his stock in the company. The creditor can seize the stock and liquidate the corporate assets or simply take control of the company. In most states, creditors are limited to a charging order against an LLC.

It seems the LLC treated as an S-corp is the better business entity for a property flipping business.

Just how this layman sees it.




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