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Forums » Tax, Legal Issues, Contracts, Self-Directed IRA » When to start using a CPA?

When to start using a CPA? Subscribe to When to start using a CPA?

36 posts by 14 users

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· Orlando, Florida


My lawyer recommended talking to a CPA about my rental properties. I've never used one before (I've done the itemized deductions by myself once--last year, with Turbo Tax--for my rentals).

Do you typically have the CPA actually prepare the tax return, or just use him or her as a sounding board for tax questions? Would it better or more cost effective to go to an enrolled agent?


Rehabber · Lexington, Kentucky


I would recommend using a CPA...we started immediately to not only ensure we did not make any crucial errors, but that we minimized our taxes paid. You should be able to find a good CPA that will review your books and prepare your taxes for a price that will be well worth it in my opinion. I am sure investors in your area can chime in with recommendations and going rates.


Real Estate Investor · Atlanta, Georgia


Any time you have income coming from business(es) and/or other investment assets you should be using a CPA (in my opinion).

And yes, using a CPA for tax planning is probably more important than using him for tax preparation (again, in my opinion).

If you don't feel like you're CPA is worth what you're paying him, you need to find a new CPA. A good CPA will save you money, not cost you money.

J Scott, Lish Properties, LLC
Telephone: 770-906-6358
Website: http://www.123flip.com
http://www.123flip.com


Real Estate Investor · New Orleans, Louisiana


Bienes,

I'm like you for about 5 years I've done my own taxes with Turbo Tax. However, I'm onto my 4 rental unity and decided to get a CPA this year.

Reasons for this:
-I asked my boss, that is a developer and multi business owner, what do you recommend a good lawyer/cpa? He said "CPA because they deal with your money and tax structure. A good one will have lawyers they work with to structure your business in the most tax beneficial way. Trust me I'm made some business decisions before consulting my CPA and ended up paying more in taxes when real I shouldn't have."

- Pay people what they are good at. A CPA is good at taxes, I'm getting better at finding RE deals. The less time I spend doing taxes the more time I can spend with the family or looking on the internet for deals.

-Some of my rentals I may not hold long term. Would like someone to give me my best options when selling as it pertains to tax strategy.

-I plan on moving into not just rentals but also wholesaling/flipping maybe 1 or 3 houses a year.

- I can call my CPA for advice before I make decisions to know the tax implications.


· Orlando, Florida


Originally posted by Mickey Harrison
Bienes,

I'm like you for about 5 years I've done my own taxes with Turbo Tax. However, I'm onto my 4 rental unity and decided to get a CPA this year.

Reasons for this:
-I asked my boss, that is a developer and multi business owner, what do you recommend a good lawyer/cpa? He said "CPA because they deal with your money and tax structure. A good one will have lawyers they work with to structure your business in the most tax beneficial way. Trust me I'm made some business decisions before consulting my CPA and ended up paying more in taxes when real I shouldn't have."

- Pay people what they are good at. A CPA is good at taxes, I'm getting better at finding RE deals. The less time I spend doing taxes the more time I can spend with the family or looking on the internet for deals.

-Some of my rentals I may not hold long term. Would like someone to give me my best options when selling as it pertains to tax strategy.

-I plan on moving into not just rentals but also wholesaling/flipping maybe 1 or 3 houses a year.

- I can call my CPA for advice before I make decisions to know the tax implications.

Mickey it sounds like you and I are at the same stage--I have 3 rentals right now and am looking for a fourth.

My concern was wasting money, since I had to go through a couple of different lawyers first before finding one who is knowledgeable in business law, doesn't have an abrasive personality, etc.. I would rather not repeat that process with the CPA. Since I like the attorney I have now I'm going to call the CPA he recommended and see what he charges.

My question about the tax return was due to the fact that I've already transcribed all of my rental receipts from 2011 into Excel and flagged whether they are repairs, improvements, or basis. I don't want to pay someone a lot of money to do the tax return when I've already done 90% of the work.


Real Estate Investor · Ocean Springs, Mississippi


I'm an accountant (will be a CPA by summer) at a CPA firm and I'll tell you that if you are in business, especially real estate, a CPA is worth the fees. Taxation, Basis tracking, etc all get confusing for the non-accounting types.

The thing about business taxes is you may think you are doing everything right and not hear back from the IRS, but you could be doing things completely wrong for years and get stung at the end by surprise. It's more of a preventative measure really. Also, tax planning involves an entire look at your financial picture and goals so it's really important to have someone who knows the long and short term impacts of decisions at your side.

Don't forget our fees are also deductible as business expenses the following year.

If your CPA doesn't have the heart of a teacher and isn't willing to sit down and explain things to you in plain English then move to the one that will. Good luck!


· King Of Prussia, Pennsylvania


A CPA would be a great idea--you should definitely look into it more and go from there. Make sure you find a CPA that is good. You need to make sure you are happy with them and feel they are worth it, because if not, it will be a waste of money.


Real Estate Investor · Audubon, Pennsylvania


One value of using a CPA, that has not been mentioned above, is when you go to seek financing. The lender will have much greater faith in your accounting practices when they see that you have employed a CPA.


Accountant · Lake Villa, Illinois


Bienes,

A CPA, and EA and an attorney are all in a room.......(sounds like the start of a bad joke).

I am an Enrolled Agent, I represent people before the IRS and this is the preferred designation by the IRS for anyone who represents taxpayers before the IRS.

It has been referenced several times here to be sure about your CPA's qualifications. There are many CPAs who do not do income taxes; however, It is more cost effective typically to go to an Enrolled Agent. Just be sure whoever you choose to use is qualified and has experience in your situation.

The term CPA is a fairly overrated one in my opinion. I've come across some CPAs who are definitely not very good at what they do. I've also seen some who are great. CPAs are not required to take continuing education in income tax after they pass the exam. There are MANY who do as their tax business is heavy; however, some of the best tax preparers and accountants do not have the CPA designation.

The biggest factor is to find an ACCOUNTANT (doesn't have to be a CPA) who is qualified to handle your situation.

There are three types of people who can represent you before the IRS: Enrolled Agents(who are licensed by the department of the treasury), CPAs and Attorneys.

I am not trashing CPAs, I am simply stating to make sure you check qualifications on EVERYONE you do business with. I am working on becoming a CPA at the moment because the designation is the first thought on taxes.

Summary: Do you due diligence. CPAs are not required to take education in income tax(many do); an EA takes 24 hours per year and is licensed in tax; Attorneys do not take continuing ed in taxation.

My Suggestion: Go see a CPA for your books, an EA for tax advice/planning, and a lawyer for legal advice. Preferably get all three in the same room.

Here are some links to other posts an a list of questions to ask by J Scott.

http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/51/topics/63679
http://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2010/05/19/finding-your-cpa-accountant-real-estate-business/

-Steven the Tax Guy

Your guide to IRS laws, rules and regulations.

Licensed by the Department of Treasury in taxation.


Real Estate Investor · sioux falls, South Dakota


I remember early in my career when I was attempting to find a knowledgeable accountant. When I was interviewing accountants I would always ask one simple question-what did you pay last year in income taxes? If they refused to answer, I felt they were embarrassed with the amount they had paid. If they gave me the amount that they paid and it was more than what I had paid why on earth would I want them to do my taxes? I was quite confident I was earning more than they were so their taxes should of been less.

I do agree with previous posters that you definitely need an accountant. Unfortunately, in my opinion, most of them do not understand real estate. Rich


Real Estate Investor · New Orleans, Louisiana


Yes one thing I forgot to add.. make sure whom ever you pick is familiar with doing taxes for Real Estate Investors. I happened to get a referral from someone at my local REIA same goes for the RE attorney I'm starting to use. I basically, asked him a few questions about clients he has (does he prepare for RE investors). I'm also familiar with some basic tax strategies that apply to RE so when I mentioned them and he knew what I was talking about, I knew I was sitting in the right office. As strange as it might sound, a simple question that I asked 2 other CPA's in my area was about 1041 exchanges. They knew what I was talking about but didn't seem confident in the answers they were giving me. I passed on them.

Yes, it will hurt some when you feel you could have done he same work for less or in your case did 90%. However, I feel I'm building a business and I need a strong team to back me.
""Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins "championships." - Michael Jordan


Commercial Real Estate Broker · Canton, Georgia


I am on the hunt for a great CPA.One who understands real estate investing and planning.

Preferably in Cherokee county Georgia or surrounding counties.


Real Estate Investor · Audubon, Pennsylvania


Originally posted by Mickey Harrison
... As strange as it might sound, a simple question that I asked 2 other CPA's in my area was about 1041 exchanges. They knew what I was talking about but didn't seem confident in the answers they were giving me. I passed on them.
...

I just completed a 1031 exchange - but I have never heard of a 1041 exchange prior to this post above ...


Accountant · Lake Villa, Illinois


1041 is the exchange of property between spouses. Here is the IRC

(a) General rule
No gain or loss shall be recognized on a transfer of property from an individual to (or in trust for the benefit of)—
(1) a spouse, or
(2) a former spouse, but only if the transfer is incident to the divorce.
(b) Transfer treated as gift; transferee has transferor's basis
In the case of any transfer of property described in subsection (a)—
(1) for purposes of this subtitle, the property shall be treated as acquired by the transferee by gift, and
(2) the basis of the transferee in the property shall be the adjusted basis of the transferor.
(c) Incident to divorce
For purposes of subsection (a)(2), a transfer of property is incident to the divorce if such transfer—
(1) occurs within 1 year after the date on which the marriage ceases, or
(2) is related to the cessation of the marriage.
(d) Special rule where spouse is nonresident alien
Subsection (a) shall not apply if the spouse (or former spouse) of the individual making the transfer is a nonresident alien.
(e) Transfers in trust where liability exceeds basis
Subsection (a) shall not apply to the transfer of property in trust to the extent that—
(1) the sum of the amount of the liabilities assumed, plus the amount of the liabilities to which the property is subject, exceeds
(2) the total of the adjusted basis of the property transferred.
Proper adjustment shall be made under subsection (b) in the basis of the transferee in such property to take into account gain recognized by reason of the preceding sentence.

-Steven The Tax Guy

Your Guide to the IRS laws, rules and regulations


Real Estate Investor · Austin, Texas


After a few rentals I would say it is time for a CPA. I call my CPA several times a week now that we are doing more business and I really couldn't function properly without him. He knows our tax situation intimately and all of the crazy things real estate investors like to do or have to deal with.

I consider my CPA my most important member of my small team. We do very well on our taxes each year and he pays for himself many times over.

Small_bullseye_capital_logoBryan Hancock, Bullseye Capital Real Property Opportunity Fund
E-Mail: b.hancock@bullseyecap.com
Telephone: 1-800-577-0401
Website: http://www.bullseyecapfund.com
I help busy people profit from real estate


Real Estate Investor · Ocean Springs, Mississippi


Originally posted by Steven Hamilton II
Bienes,

A CPA, and EA and an attorney are all in a room.......(sounds like the start of a bad joke).

I am an Enrolled Agent, I represent people before the IRS and this is the preferred designation by the IRS for anyone who represents taxpayers before the IRS.

It has been referenced several times here to be sure about your CPA's qualifications. There are many CPAs who do not do income taxes; however, It is more cost effective typically to go to an Enrolled Agent. Just be sure whoever you choose to use is qualified and has experience in your situation.

The term CPA is a fairly overrated one in my opinion. I've come across some CPAs who are definitely not very good at what they do. I've also seen some who are great. CPAs are not required to take continuing education in income tax after they pass the exam. There are MANY who do as their tax business is heavy; however, some of the best tax preparers and accountants do not have the CPA designation.

The biggest factor is to find an ACCOUNTANT (doesn't have to be a CPA) who is qualified to handle your situation.

There are three types of people who can represent you before the IRS: Enrolled Agents(who are licensed by the department of the treasury), CPAs and Attorneys.

I am not trashing CPAs, I am simply stating to make sure you check qualifications on EVERYONE you do business with. I am working on becoming a CPA at the moment because the designation is the first thought on taxes.

Summary: Do you due diligence. CPAs are not required to take education in income tax(many do); an EA takes 24 hours per year and is licensed in tax; Attorneys do not take continuing ed in taxation.

My Suggestion: Go see a CPA for your books, an EA for tax advice/planning, and a lawyer for legal advice. Preferably get all three in the same room.

Here are some links to other posts an a list of questions to ask by J Scott.

http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/51/topics/63679
http://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2010/05/19/finding-your-cpa-accountant-real-estate-business/

-Steven the Tax Guy

Your guide to IRS laws, rules and regulations.

Licensed by the Department of Treasury in taxation.

The truth in this post is that not all CPA's deal with taxes. Many do audits, compliance, compilations, controllers, are CFO's, are CEO's, or do all other aspects of business.

If you go to a smaller, local practice then chances are they aren't touching many audits and the lions share of their practice is taxes and tax planning. Some even merge practices with Tax Attorneys for the tax and estate dream team.

I'm not sure I would compare a CPA to an EA. They aren't even on the same level. A CPA can do all the work an EA can do, but an EA can't do half the work a CPA can do. Just look at the CPA exam vs the EA Exam.

That said, an EA would probably do just fine for tax preparation only, but I'd much rather have my financial statements and books compiled by a CPA and since he's already got that intimate knowledge of your financials he (or she) can do the tax work too.

I'm not bashing EA's, but I'm not sure comparing to a CPA is even in the same ballpark. Most EA's work for outfits like Jackson Hewitt, etc. (not bashing them if you use them)

If you're a real estate investor you will have long term tax planning issues, likely financial statement compilations for lenders, multiple partnership returns, and some pretty complicated books. If you can find a CPA who also invests in real estate himself, that's the ticket, IMO.

I'm a rookie Accountant, someone like Charles Perkins would be your best pick.


· Orlando, Florida


Originally posted by Mickey Harrison
Yes one thing I forgot to add.. make sure whom ever you pick is familiar with doing taxes for Real Estate Investors. I happened to get a referral from someone at my local REIA same goes for the RE attorney I'm starting to use. I basically, asked him a few questions about clients he has (does he prepare for RE investors). I'm also familiar with some basic tax strategies that apply to RE so when I mentioned them and he knew what I was talking about, I knew I was sitting in the right office. As strange as it might sound, a simple question that I asked 2 other CPA's in my area was about 1041 exchanges. They knew what I was talking about but didn't seem confident in the answers they were giving me. I passed on them.

Yes, I am definitely going to make sure that the person understands RE and what I'm trying to accomplish.


Real Estate Investor · Ocean Springs, Mississippi


Originally posted by Rich Weese
I remember early in my career when I was attempting to find a knowledgeable accountant. When I was interviewing accountants I would always ask one simple question-what did you pay last year in income taxes? If they refused to answer, I felt they were embarrassed with the amount they had paid. If they gave me the amount that they paid and it was more than what I had paid why on earth would I want them to do my taxes? I was quite confident I was earning more than they were so their taxes should of been less.

Pretty bold assumption there. Many of the CPA's in my area, especially the firm owners/partners, are involved in all sorts of other businesses. One in particular comes to mind that still works his tax practice but owns a few hotels and a couple storage units. From the outside he looks like the humble, frugal CPA with his older used pickup truck, but he's killing it under the radar. In my experience this seems to be the norm, rather than the exception. Most CPA's are frugal but heavy investors and not very flashy so it can be deceiving.


Real Estate Investor · Arlington, Texas


I'm curious about this too. I am in my very humble beginnings with one rental that only grosses 550 / month. I acquired it only this past August. This will be my first year to file taxes with a rental. So, it doesn't seem like I need a CPA at this point, but I am concerned about depreciation and how that is affected if I use say, Turbo Tax this year and say, Jackson Hewitt next year and then a CPA the next year, etc. I want it to be as easy as possible, but what I can spend for that ease is obviously limited. I only spent 12K on the house and 12K on rehab and want to maximize the tax benefit of repairs vs. capital costs since there is really not much to depreciate if divided over 27.5 years!


Real Estate Investor · Austin, Texas


Originally posted by Daniel Payne
Most CPA's are frugal but heavy investors and not very flashy so it can be deceiving.

Let's not get carried away here. Most? Really?

CPAs are very good at certain things, but I would not say that MOST CPAs are heavy investors or even good investors. If they were they wouldn't be selling their time for dollars. They would be directing their capital to the best deals around.

The CEO of our fund is a CPA. I would say he is really the exception rather than the rule though.

Small_bullseye_capital_logoBryan Hancock, Bullseye Capital Real Property Opportunity Fund
E-Mail: b.hancock@bullseyecap.com
Telephone: 1-800-577-0401
Website: http://www.bullseyecapfund.com
I help busy people profit from real estate




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