BiggerPockets

I've really been thinking over what mikeOH has been saying about "Do the work yourself, and the management yourself"

At first I can't say I agreed with him completely, but as time goes on I'm learning more and more what he says is true.

Anyway, I started thinking about where I spent my money this year, and most of my money was spent on furnace installation. So, I'm thinking now, MAYBE I should start to learn to do some of the bigger stuff myself.

I can get all the required education, ect for HVAC for about 1/3rd the cost I spent this year on having someone else do it. Maybe furnace installation isn't the best thing, But i realized that I overpaid on just the materials by about double.

What would you say are the most expensive costs with rentals, or property rehab? I know one guy on here said he normally does all his roofing.

Thanks!

I do all my own electrical and plumbing. I couldn't dream of paying someone else to do it. 70% of my rehab time is in plumbing and electrical work. I would say the most expensive part of rehab for me is roofing and heating. I will buy all my own material, someone always has a furnace laying around, but the labor on it is the most expensive and I am just a little leary about working on these new furnaces myself. I think Mike actually has the right idea and that is to pull these gas furnaces and put in electric baseboard heating. I've got one that I am either going to have to replace or install baseboard heating on soon.

I do everything except HVAC. I will soon learn to do that. I watch and learn from my hvac guys everytime they do an install. It's good to know how to do as much as you can and/or be knowledgeable so you don't overpay

Roofs can be pretty expensive. At least you can estimatete life and save up for them------ although I did have a tenant's kids get up on a roof and pull off the shingles, chop holes in the roof deck, and spray paint grafitti. Can't really plan for something like that.

I do minor electric and minor plumbing, and that is most of it.

For HVAC, it takes a license to deal with the freon, but I buy parts and if they are obvious, I install them, and if they look more complicated, I pay my electrician. It's a lot cheap than paying the HVAC guys.

HVAC is a lot less complicated than the HVAC guys try to make you think. I can do about 9 out of 10 heat pump repairs by myself.

The big savings is that you don't pay for unneeded repairs. Your tenants will tell you they need a new stove just because one burner ring is out. Or they need a new garbage disposal when they have jammed it with a rock.

The majority of my tenant repair calls, I get there and there is nothing to repair: like the tenant who called to say the fridge blew up and wouldn't work. I went over and reset the gfi.

I sure would have hated to buy a new fridge and then on top of that, pay an electrician $100 to go and push that little button, because the new fridge wouldn;t have worked, either.

What about getting a Homeshield (or similar) warranty? They cover a lot of items, including the heating and AC units.

For me the most expensive contractors are plumbing. I only call them in when it's something that is too big for me to do.

I worked in HVAC for 5 years so I can do most of those things. If the electrical system can support it putting in BBE is by far the cheapest both to install and for the tenants (at least until 2011) in PA.

-Michael

Originally posted by Brandon Schlichter

I've been partial to BB heat, OUTSIDE of the worry that a tennant will throw something over the unit, and catch the place on fire, that's my main worry.

BBE is very , very cheap though, and relatively economical to run.

Also , tom , how did you learn to do your electric? A friend of mine always told me the cheapest/best route was to do it yourself and then have a electrician certify it.

The house i'm closing on next week has no interior walls ,so running the electric will be quite easy to do. I figured this would be a good place to start on doing my own wiring.

It sounds like you are going to need inspections. If this is the case, then you are going to have to have an electrician come in and do any work involving new walls. I grew up a poor black child.. just kidding, I actually grew up on a farm and we were poor, so you have to learn how to do things yourself.

When it comes to electrical work, it's simply a matter of, when it works you're done. Keep in mind that I am not gutting a house either, where I have a trash dumpster sitting in the front yard attracting every inspector around the city. When I do construction debris, it goes in the back of my truck and I burn it at home on the burn pile. Scrap pipes and metal goes into a different pile behind the barn until I am ready to cash it in or give it to one of my handymen as payment for painting or something.

When I rehab a house, everything was done by the prior owners before I purchased it. When the inspector comes in for a dwelling a permit and see's new outlets, switches, walls with outlets, all of that was done before I ever purchased that property. All I do is clean, paint and make minor fixes.

You are going to find even the simplest things like relocating or running new 220 lines for a stove or laundry area's are going to need to be done by you. I couldn't imagine having to call in an electrician every time some wiring needed to be done and its the same deal with plumbing. With all of the plastics out now, there is no reason why even Harry Home Owner shouldn't be able to take care of most of their plumbing issues. .

Brandon,

I am sure they have a "electrical for dummy's" out there somewhere. You really cannot go wrong putting in the new GFCI's. They are made now so if you wire something backwards, they will not reset. Also, pick yourself up a little outlet tester for a couple of bucks. It is a 3 prong plug that has 3 lights on it. It will tell you if you wired something incorrectly. These things are a must for Sec 8 landlords. Sec 8 requires all 3 prong outlets to be grounded and they test each one with that tester. I spend days pulling 3 prongs outlets and installing 2 prongs on rehabs.

When a GFCI is required, that sucker has to be grounded for Sec 8, the easiest way to accomplish this is to go straight to one of your cold water pipes. Most homes are grounded at the water meter, which will give you a ground on your cold water pipes. When you are installing GFCI's on a second floor bathroom, you certainly don't want to have to try to run a ground all the way back to your box in the basement. If you do not have a ground on your water meter from your box, put one on. It will save you a lot of time.

Several times I have ran into upstairs bathrooms that did not have an outlet. What they do have is two candle stick lights with push button switches and no switch on the wall. They make a GFCI outlet with a light switch built in. These are perfect for installing a new light bar, with a new GFIC outlet and switch right over the sink. Your line is already coming up from the basement to power your candle stick lights, so all you have to do is run a new line up to your light bar from your new switch.

I have installed 3 of these things so far and every time I do, I spend at least 2 hours trying to get the thing to work correctly. Each time I had to call the support line on the box and the guy walked me through the process. I cannot read electrical diagrams for crap, so the instructions were useless. This last one, I saved my notes and hopefully I won't have to call the company again. It is absolutely necessary to wire these correctly or the GFCI or the switch will not work or it won't ground correctly. So you really cannot create a hazardous situation, the outlet won't let you.

Another great source for instructions that has saved me countless hours, is your local Handy Man hardware or whatever small hardware you have in your area. The one I shop at has old timers working there and they are more then willing to sit down and show you exactly how to do something, whether it's electrical, plumbing or painting. I often pay a little more for my supplies at this store, but it beats spending hours trying to find what you need at the big box stores and you are supporting your local community by shopping there.

CB , thanks for the link - You're right, they do seem to know what they're doing at that forum.

How to do electric:
Make sure power is off-buy and use the tester
Black to Black
White to White
Bare wire to Bare wire (ground to ground)
Make sure the switch is on the black-that way as long as the switch is turned off, the circuit is dead and you can work without going to the basement and turning the breakers off and on

Honestly, knowing that will get you through most electrical jobs in a house

Tom: you didn't hear this from me, but if you run a small length of wire from the neutral (white) to where the ground is, when they plug in the tester it will show that the outlet is grounded, even with only 2 wires-not that I've ever done this ;-) It's not going to be to code but:
1 nobody will ever check if the tester lights up correctly
2 if you take a look at the breaker box, the neutrals (whites) and grounds end up at the same place anyway.
3 the previous owners must have done it because it tested fine for me when I bought the place