NEW! BP Podcast 019: Starting Out Tips, Short Sales, and Working with Virtual Assistants w/ Tracy Royce

Hide this

People to Know

 

From the BiggerPockets Blog

 BiggerPockets Blog »

Jump to Forum View All

Click a category below to view different forum categories.

BiggerPockets

General Info

BiggerPockets Q&A, Site Questions, & Announcements

1143 topics, 10708 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 04:43PM

BiggerPockets Exclusive PRO Area

31 topics, 223 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 07:55AM

New Member Introductions

6169 topics, 40291 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 04:36PM

Real Estate Success Stories

214 topics, 2942 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 03:22PM

BiggerPockets Real Estate Investing Summit

95 topics, 1723 posts — Last Post 05/16/13, 06:39PM

General Real Estate

General Real Estate

Buying & Selling Real Estate

2812 topics, 23135 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 03:25PM

Renters

305 topics, 2630 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 12:51PM

Get Foreclosure Help - Help Stop Foreclosure Forum

264 topics, 2099 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 03:04PM

Home Owner Association (HOA) Issues & Problems Forum

159 topics, 1073 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 03:42PM

Do it Yourself

403 topics, 3664 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 05:11AM

Reviews & Feedback

Real Estate Deal Analysis and Advice

2147 topics, 16710 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 01:00PM

Real Estate Guru, Book & Course Reviews and Discussions

866 topics, 8551 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 09:09AM

Ask About A Real Estate Company

537 topics, 5562 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 06:34AM

Real Estate Investing

Real Estate Strategies

Wholesaling

3756 topics, 29869 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 04:42PM

Rehabbing and House Flipping

2384 topics, 22284 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 04:36PM

Real Estate Development & New Home Construction

394 topics, 2891 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 04:02PM

Innovative Strategies

519 topics, 4166 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 02:01PM

Tax Liens, Notes, Paper, & Cash Flows Discussion

581 topics, 4220 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 03:48PM

Rent to Own a.k.a. Lease Purchase, Lease Options

471 topics, 3250 posts — Last Post 05/22/13, 01:18PM

1031 Exchanges

86 topics, 592 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 11:45AM

Foreclosure Investing

General Foreclosure & Pre-Foreclosure Forums

1363 topics, 8931 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 03:05PM

HUD, VA, and Tax Sales

272 topics, 1732 posts — Last Post 05/22/13, 03:46PM

REOs

1057 topics, 9230 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 10:22AM

Short Sales

1386 topics, 11836 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 04:05PM

Landlord & Tenant Forums

Landlord & Rental Property Questions

4770 topics, 44751 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 04:32PM

Mobile Homes & Mobile Home Park Investing

488 topics, 3832 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 11:56AM

Investor Basics

Starting Out

5333 topics, 41452 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 04:09PM

Investor Psychology

338 topics, 4964 posts — Last Post 05/19/13, 12:10PM

General Real Estate Investing

3556 topics, 27179 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 04:42PM

Real Estate Investor Marketing

1172 topics, 9460 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 10:32AM

Commercial Real Estate

Commercial Real Estate Investing Forum

1134 topics, 7111 posts — Last Post 05/22/13, 02:23PM

Multi-Family and Apartment Investing

538 topics, 4672 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 02:16PM

The Business of Real Estate

Real Estate Technology and the Internet

Real Estate Technology, Social Media & Blogging

457 topics, 3796 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 01:51AM

Business Basics

Goals, Business Plans & Entities

555 topics, 5218 posts — Last Post 05/21/13, 09:23AM

Real Estate Finance & Legal

Financial, Tax, and Legal

Tax, Legal Issues, Contracts, Self-Directed IRA

1981 topics, 14002 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 03:36PM

Credit & Credit Repair

222 topics, 1802 posts — Last Post 04/22/13, 10:00AM

Property Insurance

208 topics, 1336 posts — Last Post 05/22/13, 01:52PM

Bankruptcy

25 topics, 138 posts — Last Post 03/22/13, 08:22PM

Loans, Mortgages, Credit Lines

Private & Conventional Lending Discussion

1850 topics, 12489 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 01:47PM

Creative Real Estate Financing

841 topics, 5942 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 09:42AM

Real Estate Professionals

Real Estate Professionals

Real Estate Agents

792 topics, 4999 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 08:56AM

Bankers, Lenders, and Mortgage Brokers

374 topics, 1501 posts — Last Post 05/21/13, 10:18AM

Contractors

155 topics, 868 posts — Last Post 05/21/13, 02:39PM

Local Real Estate

Local Real Estate

Local Real Estate Networking & Recommendations

941 topics, 5396 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 02:20PM

Americans & International Real Estate

149 topics, 540 posts — Last Post 05/17/13, 03:21PM

Foreigners Buying in the USA

47 topics, 296 posts — Last Post 05/13/13, 09:15AM

Canadian Real Estate

33 topics, 155 posts — Last Post 04/28/13, 07:59AM

Marketplace

Real Estate Marketplace

Real Estate Marketplace

11599 topics, 44734 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 04:28PM

Off-Topic

Off Topic

Off-Topic

2574 topics, 30352 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 01:50PM

Housing News & Real Estate Market

761 topics, 7197 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 01:54PM

BiggerPockets Resources

Forums » Investor Psychology » Investing in rentals / short & long term

Investing in rentals / short & long term

5 posts by 5 users

Signup


Here is what I am thinking of as my first step in increasing my portfolio:

Purchase at least 2 suited properties (or duplexes) for $800,000 (or less) (cost $600,000 after 25% DP)
Rents in my area will be between $4,000-$6,000 ($48,000-$72,000 per year)
Interest cost $2,000 ($24,000 per year) at current rate (assuming interest only LOC)

So I have potential net of $24,000-$48,000 per year (less taxes and insurance)


Real Estate Investor · Atlanta, Georgia


Originally posted by Robert Griffin:
So I have potential net of $24,000-$48,000 per year (less taxes and insurance)

Actually, it's less taxes, insurance, maintenance, vacancy, capital costs, utilities, turnover costs, concessions, rent loss, legal costs, accounting costs, etc...

In the end, you'll likely see negative cash-flow on these deals. Check out threads here on "The 50% Rule" for more details as to why...

Small_lishproplogoJ Scott, Lish Properties, LLC
E-Mail: j@123flip.com
Telephone: 770-906-6358
Website: http://www.123flip.com
FOLLOW ME ON FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/123FlipRealEstate


Landlord · Seattle, Washington


Correct me if I'm wrong. I'll try to interpret your numbers to make it easier to evaluate.

Total for 2 duplexs
Purchase price 800,000
Down Payment 200,000
Amount to finance 600,000

Gross Annual Rent 48,000 to 72,000 (1,000 to 1500/mo/unit)

Your vacancy, property taxes, insurance, property management, capital expenditures, repairs, maintenance and other rental costs will like eat about half of this rent on average.

Your intention is to finance with an interest only LOC. Approx 24,000 annual cost

If your rents are 1000 per month you will just be breaking even and paying nothing on your principal. This seems like a very risky investment.

If your rents are 1500/mo you might average 6K annually for cash flow, but again your principal is not getting paid down.

A 6K return on a 200,000 investment is only 3%. That net income comes with a LOC that will not always be interest only.



I am considering a similar deal as Robert...

It's a duplex that I'd offer at most $400k for (really like to buy it for $350k, but I'll use 400k for my example). It would produce between $5k - $5500 per month. The PITI will be $2800-$2900 a month. So basically one side pays the PITI, the other goes into my reserves. I know this is just shy of the 50% rule. But I've found it next to impossible to find property that qualifies in my area (Northern NJ).

In comparison to many properties this deal is the best...

I currently own a duplex where I live in one half and rent the other... This is me trying to build my portfolio :)

I guess my question is, I'm looking at this opportunity like this... Because I have the 20% to put down, I'm investing $80k, then my tenants will be paying the PITI, so either one of 2 things will happen.

1. I hold onto the place, pay off the mortgage, and then the rent each month is income.

2. I end up selling at some point, the difference between the price the property sold for and what I still owe on the mortgage, minus my initial investment is profit.

Is this not a sound strategy for someone who has a good job in their late 20's?

Please all thoughts are welcome.... Criticize away!


Real Estate Investor · Milwaukee, Wisconsin


If you have a good job that early in your career, congratulations! Unfortunately, the property, if you get $5,000 a month gross, probably gets you $2,500 a month net, which is $30,000 a year. From there, that's an 8-cap, rounded up.

It's not the best cap rate you can find, I'd look more towards 11- and 12-cap properties, but there's also appreciation to be figured in. Now, you probably won't hold the place for the rest of your life, so selling it is a definite exit strategy. Using the cash-flow to pay the mortgage while letting it appreciate is definitely a strategy, but you are banking on appreciation.

If the area is good, and it's not already overpriced, it might be a good investment, especially if you can get it for $350k or less. Remember, you have to both beat inflation and cover the seller's costs, like commissions and closing costs. So, even if you bought it for $400,000 today and sold it for $408,000 next year, you'd still be losing money, since inflation is 2% (8k) and you are paying a good amount in closing.

Also, I find it a little more difficult to hedge my bets on appreciation, but that considers the areas I work in. Just my input, I'm sure lots of other people around have completely valid viewpoints different from my own.




Sign up