5/25/12 IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: MAJOR BP Update Next Week!

Hide this

Jump to Category View All

Click a category below to view different forum categories.

BiggerPockets

General Info

Rss10 BiggerPockets Q&A, Site Questions, & Announcements

1001 topics, 8199 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 08:01PM

Rss10 BiggerPockets Exclusive PRO Area

12 topics, 81 posts — Last Post 03/23/12, 03:25PM

Rss10 New Member Introductions

4596 topics, 26506 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 04:49AM

Rss10 BiggerPockets Success Stories

152 topics, 1813 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 10:22AM

Rss10 BiggerPockets Real Estate Investing Summit

87 topics, 1549 posts — Last Post 05/07/12, 02:13PM

General Real Estate

General Real Estate

Rss10 Buying Real Estate

1318 topics, 10389 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 08:20PM

Rss10 Selling Real Estate

320 topics, 2544 posts — Last Post 05/08/12, 07:34PM

Rss10 Renters

202 topics, 1618 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 11:34AM

Rss10 Get Foreclosure Help - Help Stop Foreclosure Forum

221 topics, 1747 posts — Last Post 05/18/12, 08:38PM

Rss10 Home Owner Association (HOA) Issues & Problems Forum

111 topics, 719 posts — Last Post 05/08/12, 06:37AM

Rss10 Do it Yourself

328 topics, 2841 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 09:10AM

Reviews & Feedback

Rss10 Real Estate Deal Analysis and Advice

1625 topics, 12979 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 06:56PM

Rss10 Real Estate Guru, Book & Course Reviews and Discussions

700 topics, 7128 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 02:16PM

Rss10 Ask About A Real Estate Company

330 topics, 4781 posts — Last Post 05/10/12, 10:31PM

Real Estate Investing

Real Estate Strategies

Rss10 Wholesaling

2588 topics, 19948 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 12:14PM

Rss10 Rehabbing and House Flipping

1622 topics, 14297 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:24PM

Rss10 Real Estate Development

202 topics, 1123 posts — Last Post 05/19/12, 07:40AM

Rss10 Pre-Construction & New Home Construction

90 topics, 600 posts — Last Post 05/05/12, 11:02AM

Rss10 Innovative Strategies

378 topics, 2936 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 08:21PM

Rss10 Tax Liens, Notes, Paper, & Cash Flows Discussion

477 topics, 2850 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 02:54PM

Rss10 Rent to Own a.k.a. Lease Purchase, Lease Options

355 topics, 2229 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:12PM

Rss10 1031 Exchanges

62 topics, 342 posts — Last Post 04/29/12, 08:09PM

Foreclosure Investing

Rss10 General Foreclosure & Pre-Foreclosure Forums

1156 topics, 7084 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 06:30PM

Rss10 HUD, VA, and Tax Sales

216 topics, 1327 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 01:59PM

Rss10 REOs

948 topics, 7884 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 05:04PM

Rss10 Short Sales

1254 topics, 10440 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 01:58PM

Landlord & Tenant Forums

Rss10 Rental Property Questions & Landlording Issues

3183 topics, 28801 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 04:53PM

Rss10 Land & Farm Investing

118 topics, 736 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 01:27PM

Rss10 Mobile Homes & Mobile Home Park Investing

416 topics, 3071 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 05:40PM

Real Estate Dealmaking

Rss10 Make Deals, Find Partners, Mentors & BirdDogs, etc.

3703 topics, 13611 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 06:57PM

Rss10 Promote Your Real Estate Buyer's List

160 topics, 689 posts — Last Post 05/02/12, 05:54AM

Rss10 Property Wanted

635 topics, 3041 posts — Last Post 05/19/12, 07:44AM

Rss10 Seeking Financing, Money, or Loans

1245 topics, 7437 posts — Last Post 05/21/12, 10:41AM

Rss10 Tax Liens, Notes, Paper, & Cash Flows Dealmaking

277 topics, 1909 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 06:40PM

Rss10 Bulk REO Discussion and REO Dealmaking

843 topics, 5906 posts — Last Post 02/02/12, 04:20PM

Investor Basics

Rss10 Starting Out

4197 topics, 30898 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 03:17PM

Rss10 Investor Psychology

298 topics, 4486 posts — Last Post 05/04/12, 09:01PM

Rss10 General Real Estate Investing

3145 topics, 21840 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:22PM

Rss10 Real Estate Investor Marketing

910 topics, 7482 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 10:26AM

Commercial Real Estate

Rss10 Commercial Real Estate Investing Forum

743 topics, 3995 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 08:46AM

Rss10 Multi-Family and Apartment Investing

219 topics, 2013 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 11:11AM

Rss10 Office Investing

3 topics, 36 posts — Last Post 11/15/11, 02:42PM

Rss10 Industrial Property Investing

4 topics, 14 posts — Last Post 05/04/12, 06:44AM

Rss10 Retail Property Investing

10 topics, 77 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 10:15AM

Rss10 CRE Financing and Lending

26 topics, 247 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 05:27AM

Rss10 CRE Syndication and Fundraising

26 topics, 236 posts — Last Post 05/20/12, 04:52PM

Rss10 CRE Property Management & Leasing

2 topics, 12 posts — Last Post 05/18/12, 12:34PM

The Business of Real Estate

Real Estate Technology and the Internet

Rss10 Technology, Social Media, Real Estate & The Web

270 topics, 2278 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 08:17PM

Rss10 Real Estate Blogs & Blogging

24 topics, 293 posts — Last Post 05/16/12, 09:29PM

Business Basics

Rss10 Goals, Business Plans & Entities

428 topics, 4273 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 09:08PM

Real Estate Finance & Legal

Financial, Tax, and Legal

Rss10 Tax, Legal Issues, Contracts, Self-Directed IRA

1349 topics, 9465 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 07:35AM

Rss10 Credit & Credit Repair

182 topics, 1484 posts — Last Post 05/22/12, 06:06PM

Rss10 Property Insurance

135 topics, 850 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:36PM

Rss10 Bankruptcy

21 topics, 113 posts — Last Post 05/21/12, 08:25PM

Loans, Mortgages, Credit Lines

Rss10 Private & Conventional Lending Discussion

1346 topics, 8087 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 02:20PM

Rss10 Creative Real Estate Financing

659 topics, 4285 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 10:58AM

Real Estate Professionals

Real Estate Professionals

Rss10 Real Estate Agents

639 topics, 3562 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 07:47PM

Rss10 Bankers, Lenders, and Mortgage Brokers

355 topics, 1268 posts — Last Post 05/04/12, 01:18AM

Rss10 Contractors

122 topics, 669 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 08:17PM

Local Real Estate

International Real Estate

Local Real Estate

Rss10 Local Real Estate Networking

612 topics, 3434 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 02:08PM

Rss10 Americans & International Real Estate

139 topics, 505 posts — Last Post 05/20/12, 02:00PM

Rss10 Foreigners Buying in the USA

56 topics, 288 posts — Last Post 05/02/12, 07:54PM

Rss10 Canadian Real Estate

26 topics, 130 posts — Last Post 03/19/12, 05:58PM

Marketplace

Real Estate Marketplace

Rss10 Mortgages & Lending

392 topics, 1757 posts — Last Post 05/20/12, 03:10AM

Rss10 Residential Property, Land, & Farms For Sale

760 topics, 1463 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 06:58PM

Rss10 Real Estate Events & Happenings

118 topics, 505 posts — Last Post 05/07/12, 10:07PM

Rss10 Commercial Properties for Sale or Lease

224 topics, 671 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 08:42AM

Rss10 Domains & Website Reviews

48 topics, 391 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 07:07AM

Rss10 Classifieds - Promote your Website, Newsletter, or Product

595 topics, 2801 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 06:42PM

Off-Topic

Off Topic

Rss10 Off-Topic

1866 topics, 19997 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 08:12AM

Rss10 Housing News & Real Estate Market

666 topics, 6615 posts — Last Post 05/09/12, 03:11PM

BiggerPockets Resources

Forums » Rehabbing and House Flipping » Is Flipping Illegal?

Is Flipping Illegal? Subscribe to Is Flipping Illegal?

14 posts by 11 users

Signup

Real Estate Investor · New York


Is flipping illegal? Flipping in the form of buying a property and then reselling in the same condition you purchased for a profit. In one city I invest in it looks like it is illegal. Was wondering how this could be illegal when you are dealing with cash sales.

Here is the link that is saying this practice is illegal here:
http://buffaloflipping.org/


Real Estate Investor · Atlanta, Georgia


Unless the laws in Buffalo are different than in every other place in the US I'm familiar with, it's not illegal to flip so long as proper disclosures about property condition are made and the transactions are arms-length.

Flipping becomes a legal issue when done in a way where the intent is to manipulate appraisal values by reselling multiple times in non-arms-length transactions. This is done in attempt to defraud the ultimate end-buyer by making the value of the property to appear higher than what it otherwise would.

J Scott, Lish Properties, LLC
Telephone: 770-906-6358
Website: http://www.123flip.com
http://www.123flip.com



No, but if you are worried contact a Real Property lawyer.


Real Estate Investor · Dallas, Texas


That site defines flipping as an individual or entity selling to another individual or entity for profit within 12 months. They do not say flipping is illegal, but they do say that fraudulent flipping is. To which I say, DUH!


Real Estate Investor · Bakersfield, California


The word illegal is a huge word. One shouldn't lump all actions into a single definition.

As mentioned flipping was at one time defined as acts of fraud. Where buyer sellers appraisers would join forces to defraud lenders.

IMHO it's like saying driving the speed limit is illegal. At face value it isn't. Put a drunk driver behind the wheel certainly.

Small_ylmMichael Quarles, Yellow Letter Mail
E-Mail: michael@YellowLetterMail.com
Telephone: 888-YOUR-MAIL
Website: http://www.YellowLetterMail.com
1-800-Sell4Cash Territories are available for 147.00 per month.


Real Estate Investor · Los Angeles, CA


Not sure what the current situation is but I had a family member that was very active in the buffalo area flipping / wholesaling properties. There seemed to be a lot of locals angry about the practice , the mayor was even "anti flipping " as well... Kind of crazy. Apparently they believed that flipping contributed to neighborhood decline.


Real Estate Investor · New York


Yes everyone is very anti-flipping. It is the investors fault for the situation of the city not the lack of jobs and high taxes. I emailed the link on their website asking what they consider illegal about flipping and they never responded. It seems that if your goal is to flip they will just come down on you with code violations and fines until you get sick of them and give up. Thats the impression I get from that site and some others I have been reading.


Wholesaler · Valley City, Ohio


Things get illegal when you are not transparent. When in doubt, disclose, disclose and disclose.

You should still check with a local real estate attorney, you can find one at most local title companies.

Good luck, staying out of the clinker! LOL!

Small_logo_largeRob Gillespie, Rob The House Guy, LLC
E-Mail: rob@robthehouseguy.com
Telephone: 330-800-9043
Website: http://AskTheHouseGuy.com
Rob@RobTheHouseGuy.com 330 800 9043 AskTheHouseGuy.com RobTheHouseGuy.com


Rehabber · Santa Clarita, California


There is nothing illegal about flipping homes. IF you comit fraud or some type of illegal activity while flipping a home, then yes, but it is not the act of flipping that was illegal but the illegal act.

Small_barnardenterprisesWill Barnard, Barnard Enterprises, Inc.
E-Mail: info@barnardenterprises.com
Website: http://www.barnardenterprises.com
info@barnardenterprises.com


Residential Real Estate Agent · Newport Beach, California


From their overview:

"The goal of this task force is to address and eradicate unethical real estate practices and illegal activity that lead to neighborhood destabilization."

Flipping does the opposite. Fraudulent flipping does not. That's the distinction you need to make. If you are buying a property and reselling it in an arms-length transaction, as well as disclosing all along the way, you are fine.


Real Estate Investor · Los Angeles, CA


Michael, I think you touched on an important point.

"It seems that if your goal is to flip they will just come down on you with code violations and fines until you get sick of them and give up. "

The problem seems to be that there is a hysteria in that area. They want to use flippers as scapegoats when they can actually help the area by bringing up homes prices (if they are successful flippers).

I think it is a situation where people are so influenced by propaganda ,even at the highest levels of local government ( Mayor,etc) that they behave in an irrational way.

Have you considered other local markets where the cities might be possibly be less hostile towards investors... Niagara Falls or Rochester? I don't really know the current situation in these areas but I don't remember my family member saying that they had as many problems there.


Real Estate Investor · New York


I have most of my rentals in Rochester currently. I only have 3 units in Buffalo right now. I have not spent much time up in Niagara falls but I know when I was last there I was not really impressed by all the vacant properties. It seemed to me to be much worse than Buffalo. I am planning to go there in January though so maybe Ill take a better look at things there.


· Mesa, Arizona


I've been flipping since 2002 and have flipped somewhere around 600 houses. There is not a law that I've ever heard of that says you cannot sell something you bought. That being said, there are strategies which have been used which are considered to be abusive which take unfair advantage of joe public. Some of those strategies are more difficult now, due to lender flipping guidelines etc. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters... will the attorney general FEEL like you took advantage of a retail consumer? If he FEELS you did... then you did... and you will get thrown under the bus and if it's an election year... he/she will make an example of you.


Banker · Philadelphia, Pennsylvania


No, flipping is not illegal. There may be some specific requirements in your local market, but I've never heard of it before.

Like someone else had mentioned, call an RE attorney. You will most likely be able to figure out your answer in the first 10 minutes of a phone call.




Sign up