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Subcontractors without Insurance

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Tom C

Real Estate Investor from Ohio

Apr 04 '08, 10:36 PM


I am hiring my brother inlaw and his crew to do a tear off and new roof on one of my rentals. In most cases, I wouldn't be too worried about it, but he is talking about using 7 guys. All of these guys do this work on the side. My concern here is that my brother inlaw nor his crew carries insurance and if one of these guys gets hurt on my property I could get hosed.

Is there a bullet proof release I can have these guys sign off on or is a release of liablity about as good as a hand shake?

Thanks


Edited Jun 26 2010, 04:59


P NW

OR

Apr 05 '08, 12:47 AM


No release will protect you.

2 options, you can ask your insurance agent about getting some insurance to cover the job. Or, best option is to hire your guys through a temp service. The temp service provides all the insurance and all the government paperwork.

Any temp service will set you up using your own guys. You don't have to use their employees.


Edited Jun 26 2010, 04:59


P NW

OR

Apr 05 '08, 12:50 AM


By the way, I don't think that liability is the biggest worry. Disability is the biggest danger. If one of those guys gets crippled falling off your roof, and he doesn't have disability insurance, guess who gets to support him and his family for the rest of his life?

(Liability is a big issue, too, not trying to down-play it)


Edited Jun 26 2010, 04:59


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Tom C

Real Estate Investor from Ohio

Apr 05 '08, 03:04 AM


OK.. lets not getting crazy and start talking permits and stuff. I don't pull permits, Plain and simple. All of these guys are professional roofers and pick up side jobs, such as mine. As far as 1099 and tax issue's. No, I pay all my people in cash, when I use people.

Thanks for advice guys. I was just hoping someone knew of a cover your butt form or a loop hole in the system.. Such as, " I don't know who these people are that just fell off my roof, I think he was trying to break in through a window" , type loop hole.


Edited Jun 26 2010, 04:59


Tom C

Real Estate Investor from Ohio

Apr 05 '08, 03:10 AM


BTW: Jim,

Where I come from, $200.00 bucks makes problems like this, no longer problems.

" If you are a " contractor license" sate your brother in law could be subject to fines, penalties as well as prosecution if the " license board guys " were
to drive by and stop. happens all the time! "


Edited Jun 26 2010, 04:59


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Tom C

Real Estate Investor from Ohio

Apr 05 '08, 06:31 AM


Damn Brother!

The 200 bucks, if you would have read, was referring to dealing with city officals, not some jerk off falling off my roof.

And!

So now I am responsible for this guy and his family who has choosen to work side jobs for cash to make an extra buck. We are all trying to make a buck, but just because some guy falls off a roof when he choose to climb up there without any insurance, now thats my problem? I don't think so. I pay 400 bucks a month to provide insurance for my family. This guy chooses not to do so and to pocket that money and you think that is my problem. No, it is not.

And just what rules are you talking about. The rules where the city expects me to pay 250 bucks for a permit to put a new roof on my house and the same city who says that I can only hire certain contractors that they approve of? I don't think so. Last time I checked, this was a free country and I'll be damned, if I will pay someone an extra 500 bucks to follow the rules and then have to pay an extra 3K to hire a so called city approved contractors who happens to be family members of those city officals.. Brother, I have worked the streets, the city and the county and know exactly how the game is played. I can tell you stories of things that has happened in court and after court that would make your head spin.

Don't preach to me about following the rules when it comes to government policy.

You answered my orginal question, too bad it was a little radical..


Edited Jun 26 2010, 04:59


Tom C

Real Estate Investor from Ohio

Apr 05 '08, 06:38 AM


One response since this already so off topic..

You mean to tell me with all your contracting exprience you have never ran into a situtation where you could fix a problem with an city offical by tickets to a game, a nice dinner, a weekend at a ski resort, CASH!

I call Bull Shit!

You dont have to answer that..


Edited Jun 26 2010, 04:59


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Tom C

Real Estate Investor from Ohio

Apr 07 '08, 12:29 AM


Jim,

Just wanted to follow up and say thanks for the advice, on and off line. Sometimes it is very hard to get rid of that backwoods mentality, especially after a drinks of Dewar's.. :)

Thanks again for the great advice. Still can't follow it, but it is great advice.

Thanks


Edited Jun 26 2010, 05:00


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Eric Wang

Real Estate Investor from San Jose, California

May 12 '08, 11:57 PM


TC,

Did you ever find the loop hole?
I hired subcontractors before that doesn't even sign contracts, but that was for little things. But have the same concern with a bigger job like the roof.


Edited Jun 26 2010, 05:11


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Cipriano Ayala

Contractor from Antioch

May 13 '08, 07:44 AM


Liability cannot be stressed enough, especially in California, it only takes one time. Remember you get the best, you only cry once. :D


Edited Jun 26 2010, 05:11


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