BiggerPockets

Hello,

New owner of a 4plex with 60amp electric service. There are 5 electric panels with fuses: 1 for each unit and 1 for common area electric.

In trying to get property insurance, two very large insurance companies have problems with the current electrical and can't touch it.

They wanted upgraded service to 100amp, so I had to go with an expensive, state based plan (plan of last resort). In addition, I had to take out a separate commercial liability policy as well.

I'm starting to check around and it's looking like approximately $8,000 investment to upgrade to 100amp in order to "save" $1500/ year in insurance. It's not like I have that kind of money laying around.

Anyhow, I'm not experienced enough to know what I'm being told and the direction I'm heading.

Thoughts? Opinions?

Don't know what differences there might be in MN, but in my experience, I've gotten service upgrades from $750 to $1,000. These were 200A panels, which were the only options offered by the utility. This was for the service only, panel and riser, not a whole unit rewire.

If your quotes came from those listed in the yellow pages, you might try checking with your state's licensing website and see if you can find licensed master electricians in your area. Call some of them. You might find some hungry electicians that usually do commercial or (formerly) worked only for general contractors who might be interested, at a better price than the "retail" electricians who would advertise.

$8000 seems high to me, too. However, this is a fourplex, and in some areas, anything with three or more units falls into a different building code (IBC) than for SFRs or duplex (IRC). That may require different permitting and work than for a SFR. Never, ever let a big job like this without multiple bids. I've found its very common for the low bid to be 30% of the high bid. I had two bids on a recent job (furnace and water heater relocation) where the low bid was 15% of the high bid. I don't mean 15% less, either. I mean $1100 vs. $6700.

Is this really 60amps TOTAL to all four units? If so, that's totally inadequate. Even 60 amps for each unit is low. If you really want to do this right, I'd bring in separately metered 200 amp service for each unit, and a separately metered service for the common areas. 200 amps will be more than adequate for the foreseeable future. Certainly you should get bids for 100 amp services, but I suspect the difference for 200 will be small.

Ah, that makes sense. Yes, a copper conductor of the same diameter as an aluminum one will carry more amps. So, you have to use larger aluminum lines. Codes specify the fill percentage for a conduit. So, yes, you should be able to do more amps in less space with copper. Unfortunately, its more expensive.

I'm not an electrician but I have worked on more than a few construction sites. I'm not sure what the codes are in your area but I can give you an idea of what is expected in my area. In the Chicagoland area the newer codes would require you to first run the service to a main disconnect panel with a main 200 amp disconnect. Then from there the feeds would go to a disconnect for there respective unit. After the unit disconnect the power would then go to the new electric panel, most likely a 100 amp panel. This only assumes that the meters were outside to begin with, if not they would have to be relocated to the outside. As far as price goes, I would estimate around $1000 to $1500 per panel upgrade depending on how far the run is and another $800 for the main panel if its required. IMO you should run 200 amp service if you are planning to keep the property for a while. This way if you ever plan on adding amenities like A/c, you'll have ample power with a 200 amp panel. Hope this helps.

I used to be a electrician before i became a investor and 8,000 is way to high for an upgrade. The highest i remember ever charging a customer for an upgrade was 3,000 and that was in a commercial building. Most of the time most companies should only charge you around 1500 per panel for an up grade like that.On the copper its a safer metal then aluminum when its carrying an electrical load. Aluminum has a bad habit of starting fires over time . So i hate having it in a house.
Nick

Todd

I am an electrician in MN and I think that price is fairly reasonable especially if they gfi protect the units and do code updates.
Also 200amp panel for an individual apartment is way overkill 100 amp is perfect.
Consider in the price that they have to add permit fees and material is very expensive plus labor. This is not a one man job.

Tony

If that's how much work that needs to be done, there are many electrical companies that offer affordable packages. I say this because I owe a row of apartments and one time I each unit required electrical conduit bending, and I managed to pull it off without forking out a hefty amount. Talk to your electrical contractor, be honest about your situation.