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Forums » Wholesaling » Wholesale Investing

Wholesale Investing Subscribe to Wholesale Investing

38 posts by 13 users

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Wholesaler · Memphis, Tennessee


I have been seeing many posts come up all over the place from people who think that to get into real estate they will just go ahead and start out in wholesale investing. Now thats all good BUT, everyone makes it out to be the easiest thing with no risk at all. I am a experienced investor and I have sold many homes and to many others doing what we do may seem easy. There are so many things that you need to know before you take on this type of career. I could write a book on this topic but for those of you who always ask " how do I do this ", well, I am going to give you a few suggestions. You dont have to do what I say or even agree.

1. You should have good credit
2. You should have some liquid cash
3. Never back out of a deal b/c you could not sell it.
4. Always plan on closing every deal, you will burn relationships if you do.

This mostly pertains to buying foreclosures from the bank.

Small_buymemphisnow_stacksCurt Davis, buyMemphisnow.com
E-Mail: crtdavis@gmail.com
Telephone: 901-881-0552
Website: http://www.buymemphisnow.com
Full Service Real Estate Investing in Memphis TN


Real Estate Investor · Dallas, Texas


When you make an offer to a bank do you make the contract assignable? You have to, to wholesale it don't you? Or do you do a double close? Is it common for the bank to accept an assignable offer on a REO?


Wholesaler · Memphis, Tennessee


Jon,

I am not sure about banks in other places but what I have experienced is that banks will not let you assign the contract, I have always had to do a double close.

Small_buymemphisnow_stacksCurt Davis, buyMemphisnow.com
E-Mail: crtdavis@gmail.com
Telephone: 901-881-0552
Website: http://www.buymemphisnow.com
Full Service Real Estate Investing in Memphis TN


Wholesaler · Amarillo, Texas


Banks won't allow assignable contracts in any markets, so as Curt shared you will need to double close.

In reference to Curt's first post about wholesaling, I would be one of the people who disagrees.

1. You do NOT need good credit.

Your credit matters very little if you are doing straight wholesaling. Getting a loan isn't necessary, and normally a pre-approval letter from a hard money lender will suffice. Now with REO's some banks are requiring you to apply for a loan with their mortgage company to even make an offer on the property, but that's not very common. Your strongest wholesale deals will not come as REO's, though. You can make much better margins dealing with motivated sellers directly, and they don't care about your credit.

2. You do NOT need much cash.

The only money you need is whatever your marketing plan is, and if you don't have much cash then your plan needs to mostly be time intensive marketing rather than cash intensive. Now if you are making offers on listed properties, whether they are REO's or homeowners with agents, then, yes, you will need earnest money, but, again, the best wholesale deals you are going to find are buying directly from sellers, and motivated sellers don't care about earnest money.

3. As a beginning wholesaler, my advice is to never actually BUY a property.

If wholesaling is your game and your first starting out, I would recommend backing out of the contract using a contingency rather than going through and buying the property. I say this because there's a 90% chance that you think its a good deal but its not really a good deal. It takes experience to learn what a good deal really is, and my experience is that new investors think something is a really good deal when most of the time it isn't. Now I would also advise a new wholesaler to begin to build the capability to close on properties themselves, so that as they begin to gain some experience in learning what is and isn't a deal that they will have the capability to actually buy the property if they need to. Until you have that experience, YOU are your own worst enemy, and not buying property in the beginning will most likely save you a lot of money.

4. Burning a bridge with ANYONE is not a good idea in business, but the long term effects of backing out on a contract with a motivated seller will probably not amount to much against your reputation.

The thing is that motivated sellers are not return customers. Not that I would recommend doing it generally, I WOULD recommend backing out over buying a house when you are first starting out. Now if we are talking about dealing with a bank with an REO, then absolutely, burning the bridge can have long term effects on your business.

The thing about wholesaling is that WHEN STRUCTURED PROPERLY, you can have little or no risk exposure and still be able to make a fair amount of money from it. It IS the easiest way to get started if you don't have much cash or if you have bad credit.

In my opinion as an experienced wholesaler who has also sold many homes, wholesaling is a good way for the new investor to break into the business.

Is it easy? Is anything in life that is truly worthwhile easy? You know to be honest its really not that hard. Just like anything else there is a learning curve and until you've reached the apex of the curve its a lot of work, but once you round the top it gets a whole lot easier. Doing what you need to do becomes like second nature. Its just about figuring out what you need to do and doing it. Is that hard? Is that easy? I guess it depends on what you make it.


Wholesaler · Memphis, Tennessee


Ryan,

I agree with you on many levels. My experience is 99.9% dealing with bank foreclosure agents. This is truly where the best deals are. Everytime I lock up a property with a bank agent I either have to put down $1,000 or sometimes 5% in ernest money. It is very hard to back out of a contract with a bank. You are really at their mercy. Also the bank requires a proof of funds letter to make sure you can buy the home, otherwise they will not let you lock it up.

The way you are referring to doing it is to lock up homes from actual home owners, put almost nothing down for ernest money and if it does not sell just back out or create some exit clause that the actual owner does not understand. Doing it that way, sure, I would back out on the home owner also. When doing it the way I do if you back out on the banks on a regular basis, two things are going to happen.

1. You will loose thousands in ernest money every time.
2. Your reputation will be known and no agent will let you lock up property.

I wholesale properties in volume. Most people maybe wholesale 1 maybe 2 deals a month and they buy from private individuals.
Your feedback is accurate, it just depends on how you wholesale and who you buy from. Thanks Ryan

Small_buymemphisnow_stacksCurt Davis, buyMemphisnow.com
E-Mail: crtdavis@gmail.com
Telephone: 901-881-0552
Website: http://www.buymemphisnow.com
Full Service Real Estate Investing in Memphis TN


Wholesaler · Amarillo, Texas


Curt, I absolutely agree with what you're saying in reference to dealing with banks.


Wholesaler · Amarillo, Texas


Hey Ryan, can you send me the contract you use with a contingency and the assignment contract?

Do you think that mailers work best for finding motivated sellers? (letter or postcard?)

I'm finally getting started.........re-started!


Wholesaler · Memphis, Tennessee


Chris,

Sounds like you would be better off being a bird dog. You can find property and buyers with literally no risk and no money out of pocket. Leave whole selling up to the Pros.

When you put a property under contract from someone who is the home owner and you do not disclose to them that you have no intention to close on the desired close date, when that date comes around and you back out b/c of some contingency in the contract that they did not understand in the first place, YOU ARE GIVING WHOLE SALE INVESTORS A BAD REPUTATION.

Sorry for being so blunt, I guess I have just been used to the big leagues of selling property.

Small_buymemphisnow_stacksCurt Davis, buyMemphisnow.com
E-Mail: crtdavis@gmail.com
Telephone: 901-881-0552
Website: http://www.buymemphisnow.com
Full Service Real Estate Investing in Memphis TN


Real Estate Investor · Charlotte, North Carolina


It is what it is. There are about 70% of the people on BP are WHOLESALERS, WOW. They come and get my deals and use all that FANCY GURU taught stuff and then try and find and BUYER. Sorry for being a little TOUGH, but by the time they come back to me I CALMLY tell them that I have SOLD the property.

See they think because you allow them to ATTEMPT to sell your deal that you do not have BUYERS and OH YEAH I am a PLAYER. I turn 10-15 deals a mth wholesaling even in todays market. What they fell to realize is that BUYERS, SELLERS, SHORT SALES AND PRE- FORCLOSURES all this stuff is built up over time.

I always use this example: When you first go into the military for those who have been. You do not start off as a E6 or E7 you start as a PRIVATE and work your way through the ranks. But, I see it here alot that everyone is in the BIG TIMES, but no one is doing NOTHING.

WOW.

Don't take offense just understand the game and let those that have been doing it for a while teach you some things and use that to build up your system.

SUCCESS BREEDS SUCCESS


Rehabber · Santa Clarita, California


I have heard many people here on BP talk about "wholesaling" the property via a double closing and no money or credit needed. Few, have gone into deal to answer this question: If "A" is the bank (seller), "B" is you, and "C" is your end buyer, the A-B transaction must close before the B-C and you can not use the C funds to close the A-B transaction (in my state and many others). That is considered loan fraud in CA and no title company will touch it. So how are you guys getting around this?

Question 2 is this: IF you are buying a bank REO, in many cases, the property is in poor condition (or at least needs some amounts of repair). IF you had a situation where you wnated to sell to "C" and "C" was an owner occupant looking for a ready to move in condition home, how do you get the home fixed while it is in escrow and owned by the bank prior to doing your double close?

Small_barnardenterprisesWill Barnard, Barnard Enterprises, Inc.
E-Mail: info@barnardenterprises.com
Website: http://www.barnardenterprises.com
info@barnardenterprises.com


Rehabber · Santa Clarita, California


Follow-up question for you pro wholesalers: Since most banks will not let you (the buyer) choose the title company, and you want to perform a double close, how often are you able to have the banks title company do the double close (DC) transaction for you?
Do you ever run into the problem where that particular title company will not do the DC?

Small_barnardenterprisesWill Barnard, Barnard Enterprises, Inc.
E-Mail: info@barnardenterprises.com
Website: http://www.barnardenterprises.com
info@barnardenterprises.com


Real Estate Investor · Denver, Colorado


I've never been involved in a double closing. But, I've heard enough people talk about doing them, including title company folks, that I'm quite sure they do happen. Bronchick even has a little skit he puts on where he has giant deeds and checks and has people come up on stage and hands them around.

I don't see how you could possible do a fixup and do a double closing. Even if you got permission to do the work, you run the risk of the deal falling apart before the closing. If a fixup and a retail buyer is involved, you better just do a traditional fix and flip.

Small_flying-phoenixJon Holdman, Flying Phoenix LLC


Real Estate Investor · Atlanta, Georgia


I'm not a wholesaler, but I buy a lot of REOs...here are a few thoughts:

- Just because you are dealing with a bank as the seller doesn't mean that you can't have contingency clauses in your contracts that allow you to back out for any reason. It's called "due diligence" and most banks will allow you at least 5-7 days for due diligence, during which you can find your buyer if you're wholesaling;

- Earnest money can present a problem, but there are ways around it. If you put in a stipulation in the contract that says you have 48 hours *after* binding agreement to get the earnest money to the listing agent, that gives you *at least* 48 hours to find a buyer (and use his money for EM). Additionally, good wholesalers will be marketing the property to potential buyers during their negotiation process, giving them an extra 1-3 weeks. If you trust your buyers, you don't have to worry about them going around you.

- Simultaneous closings are legal and do happen, at least in some states. If you live somewhere where this is flat out illegal, you can use the double close instead (B closes with A, then C closes with B, all within a few minutes). In a double close, you need to come up with the money, for at least a few minutes. There are companies who specifically exist to loan you the money for the few minutes you need it to do a double close (they charge, of course).

- There are other ways to wholesale an REO property, where assignments aren't an issue. For example, you can create a company, buy the property in the company name, and sell the rights to the company to your buyer. Or, you can add your buyer's name to the contract (no seller will have an issue with this), and then after the purchase (with the property in both your names), you quit claim the property to him.

- There is at least one person on this forum who has been very successful wholesaling REOs, and started out with essentially no money. So, it's definitely possible.

- As for choosing the title company, most REO sellers will allow you to choose your own title company to do the closing. BUT, they will still require that their title company do the title work. If you want to choose your own title company, be prepared to pay double fees. But, it can be done.

- Wholesaling to owner occupants pretty much requires that the final buyer accept the property as-is. While there is no good way (that I've heard) to wholesale to an owner occupant and be able to include repairs in the sale, there are still plenty of wholesalers who have been successful wholesaling to owner occupants. The key is finding properties that don't need much work, and also hooking your buyers up with the right type of financing to allow them to get the rehab costs they need to fix the property.

Just my $.02...


Rehabber · Santa Clarita, California


Originally posted by Jon
I've never been involved in a double closing. But, I've heard enough people talk about doing them, including title company folks, that I'm quite sure they do happen.
Jon,
I am not saying they don't happen, they do. What I am saying is that you (party "B") must bring your own funds to the table to close transaction A-B then "C" closes with you "B"..

J Scott:
Great insight. I agree. I am familiar with all the strategies you listed. Keep in mind that I do have my own funds to close the transaction A-B so it is not an issue for me. Of course, as you pointed out, there are companies who provide the flash funding for double closings.
I was just curious if there are people who have found ways to sell in the situations I laid out. Thanks for your answers.

Small_barnardenterprisesWill Barnard, Barnard Enterprises, Inc.
E-Mail: info@barnardenterprises.com
Website: http://www.barnardenterprises.com
info@barnardenterprises.com


Real Estate Investor · Denver, Colorado


Originally posted by nationwidepi
Originally posted by Jon
I've never been involved in a double closing. But, I've heard enough people talk about doing them, including title company folks, that I'm quite sure they do happen.
Jon,
I am not saying they don't happen, they do. What I am saying is that you (party "B") must bring your own funds to the table to close transaction A-B then "C" closes with you "B"..

Don't know about other states, but here in CO you can still do the whole deal, as B, without your own cash.

Small_flying-phoenixJon Holdman, Flying Phoenix LLC


Real Estate Investor · Rancho Cucamonga, California


Originally posted by nationwidepi
I have heard many people here on BP talk about "wholesaling" the property via a double closing and no money or credit needed. Few, have gone into deal to answer this question: If "A" is the bank (seller), "B" is you, and "C" is your end buyer, the A-B transaction must close before the B-C and you can not use the C funds to close the A-B transaction (in my state and many others). That is considered loan fraud in CA and no title company will touch it. So how are you guys getting around this?

Question 2 is this: IF you are buying a bank REO, in many cases, the property is in poor condition (or at least needs some amounts of repair). IF you had a situation where you wnated to sell to "C" and "C" was an owner occupant looking for a ready to move in condition home, how do you get the home fixed while it is in escrow and owned by the bank prior to doing your double close?


Hello Nation,

I completely agree with all the advice that you have been given, but I too have run into problems while trying to Wholesale in California. The majority of the banks really aren't accepting assignments. Actually, I'd say like 97% of them are saying no! But don't fret though because there's still 3% of the banks that will allow you to assign a contract, especially if they're desperate.

I got into investing about a year ago, and I'm one of the million people who haven't made a deal yet...Of course that was due to my lack of knowledge, but the 6 mth run around taught me a lot about this crazy California market... And let me be the first to tell you that a lot of these strategies are automatically tossed out of the window for us :( But you can't give up...

Just this past weekend, I put my foot down and marched to my agent demanding that he submit 25 low ball offers on properties that have been on the market for a while. These properties usually have minor to major repairs , but its okay since you're offer is low. From those 25, my agent found out which banks accepted assignments and it drastically reduced the huge list to a whooping 4 properties. :D I mean that really isn't to shabby if you consider the numbers. The point is that eventually one of the strategies will work. You just have to choose what works BEST for you! If you have the money, great! That's even better for you AND the bank. If you don't or if you like OPM better, than those resources are also available in Cali...they just aren't as easy to access like they are in other states.

Hopefully this helped a bit...I just never see any advice from California and things can get a bit tricky :/


Real Estate Investor · Charlotte, North Carolina


What I would say to you is that you put the deal together and if A is the bank and B is you and C is your buyer with the money. What you do is go to C and let them agree to your price and do the contract. Then you close the deal with A-C and the difference comes to you as a mediator or Consultant.

You can do the deals many ways. I spoke with my attorney and he says as long as c understand that you are the middle person and that C can even let you use the funds to close the transaction as long as they are okay with everything up front.

Many people try to FRAUD and come up with unethical ways to make a little bit of money, when there are many ethical ways to make A LOT OF MONEY.

I hope this gave some insight to your questions, because it is a LEGITIMATE question.

SUCCESS BREEDS SUCCESS


Real Estate Investor · Denver, Colorado


Originally posted by Douglas Christian
What I would say to you is that you put the deal together and if A is the bank and B is you and C is your buyer with the money. What you do is go to C and let them agree to your price and do the contract. Then you close the deal with A-C and the difference comes to you as a mediator or Consultant.

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... That sure sounds like brokering to me. What is it, other than calling yourself a "mediator" or "consultant" that keeps this you from being an unlicensed broker with this arrangement?

Small_flying-phoenixJon Holdman, Flying Phoenix LLC


Wholesaler · Memphis, Tennessee


Banks will not allow you to assign a contract to your end buyer. I am glad that they do not. It makes you actually have to close on it then do a double close. Makes you more legit of an investor.

I have personally worked with people who say they are going to buy and then try to market property but then back out at the end of the due diligence period. This is not how it should be done. I hope people can spot this and not let it happen.

Small_buymemphisnow_stacksCurt Davis, buyMemphisnow.com
E-Mail: crtdavis@gmail.com
Telephone: 901-881-0552
Website: http://www.buymemphisnow.com
Full Service Real Estate Investing in Memphis TN


BiggerPockets Founder · Denver, Colorado


Originally posted by Douglas Christian
There are about 70% of the people on BP are WHOLESALERS, WOW.


Where did you come up with those numbers, Douglas? :eyes:

Small_bplogo20aJoshua Dorkin, BiggerPockets, Inc.
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