5/25/12 IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: MAJOR BP Update Next Week!

Hide this

Jump to Category View All

Click a category below to view different forum categories.

BiggerPockets

General Info

Rss10 BiggerPockets Q&A, Site Questions, & Announcements

1001 topics, 8199 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 08:01PM

Rss10 BiggerPockets Exclusive PRO Area

12 topics, 81 posts — Last Post 03/23/12, 03:25PM

Rss10 New Member Introductions

4596 topics, 26506 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 04:49AM

Rss10 BiggerPockets Success Stories

152 topics, 1813 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 10:22AM

Rss10 BiggerPockets Real Estate Investing Summit

87 topics, 1549 posts — Last Post 05/07/12, 02:13PM

General Real Estate

General Real Estate

Rss10 Buying Real Estate

1319 topics, 10392 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 10:13PM

Rss10 Selling Real Estate

320 topics, 2544 posts — Last Post 05/08/12, 07:34PM

Rss10 Renters

202 topics, 1618 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 11:34AM

Rss10 Get Foreclosure Help - Help Stop Foreclosure Forum

221 topics, 1747 posts — Last Post 05/18/12, 08:38PM

Rss10 Home Owner Association (HOA) Issues & Problems Forum

111 topics, 719 posts — Last Post 05/08/12, 06:37AM

Rss10 Do it Yourself

328 topics, 2841 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 09:10AM

Reviews & Feedback

Rss10 Real Estate Deal Analysis and Advice

1625 topics, 12980 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 10:02PM

Rss10 Real Estate Guru, Book & Course Reviews and Discussions

700 topics, 7128 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 02:16PM

Rss10 Ask About A Real Estate Company

330 topics, 4781 posts — Last Post 05/10/12, 10:31PM

Real Estate Investing

Real Estate Strategies

Rss10 Wholesaling

2589 topics, 19949 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 08:41PM

Rss10 Rehabbing and House Flipping

1622 topics, 14297 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:24PM

Rss10 Real Estate Development

202 topics, 1123 posts — Last Post 05/19/12, 07:40AM

Rss10 Pre-Construction & New Home Construction

90 topics, 600 posts — Last Post 05/05/12, 11:02AM

Rss10 Innovative Strategies

378 topics, 2938 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 09:18PM

Rss10 Tax Liens, Notes, Paper, & Cash Flows Discussion

477 topics, 2850 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 02:54PM

Rss10 Rent to Own a.k.a. Lease Purchase, Lease Options

355 topics, 2229 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:12PM

Rss10 1031 Exchanges

62 topics, 342 posts — Last Post 04/29/12, 08:09PM

Foreclosure Investing

Rss10 General Foreclosure & Pre-Foreclosure Forums

1156 topics, 7084 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 06:30PM

Rss10 HUD, VA, and Tax Sales

216 topics, 1327 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 01:59PM

Rss10 REOs

948 topics, 7884 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 05:04PM

Rss10 Short Sales

1255 topics, 10451 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 11:05PM

Landlord & Tenant Forums

Rss10 Rental Property Questions & Landlording Issues

3183 topics, 28801 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 04:53PM

Rss10 Land & Farm Investing

118 topics, 736 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 01:27PM

Rss10 Mobile Homes & Mobile Home Park Investing

416 topics, 3071 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 05:40PM

Real Estate Dealmaking

Rss10 Make Deals, Find Partners, Mentors & BirdDogs, etc.

3703 topics, 13611 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 06:57PM

Rss10 Promote Your Real Estate Buyer's List

160 topics, 689 posts — Last Post 05/02/12, 05:54AM

Rss10 Property Wanted

635 topics, 3041 posts — Last Post 05/19/12, 07:44AM

Rss10 Seeking Financing, Money, or Loans

1245 topics, 7437 posts — Last Post 05/21/12, 10:41AM

Rss10 Tax Liens, Notes, Paper, & Cash Flows Dealmaking

277 topics, 1909 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 06:40PM

Rss10 Bulk REO Discussion and REO Dealmaking

843 topics, 5906 posts — Last Post 02/02/12, 04:20PM

Investor Basics

Rss10 Starting Out

4197 topics, 30898 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 03:17PM

Rss10 Investor Psychology

298 topics, 4486 posts — Last Post 05/04/12, 09:01PM

Rss10 General Real Estate Investing

3145 topics, 21840 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:22PM

Rss10 Real Estate Investor Marketing

910 topics, 7482 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 10:26AM

Commercial Real Estate

Rss10 Commercial Real Estate Investing Forum

743 topics, 3995 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 08:46AM

Rss10 Multi-Family and Apartment Investing

219 topics, 2013 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 11:11AM

Rss10 Office Investing

3 topics, 36 posts — Last Post 11/15/11, 02:42PM

Rss10 Industrial Property Investing

4 topics, 14 posts — Last Post 05/04/12, 06:44AM

Rss10 Retail Property Investing

10 topics, 77 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 10:15AM

Rss10 CRE Financing and Lending

26 topics, 247 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 05:27AM

Rss10 CRE Syndication and Fundraising

26 topics, 236 posts — Last Post 05/20/12, 04:52PM

Rss10 CRE Property Management & Leasing

2 topics, 12 posts — Last Post 05/18/12, 12:34PM

The Business of Real Estate

Real Estate Technology and the Internet

Rss10 Technology, Social Media, Real Estate & The Web

270 topics, 2281 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 11:00PM

Rss10 Real Estate Blogs & Blogging

24 topics, 293 posts — Last Post 05/16/12, 09:29PM

Business Basics

Rss10 Goals, Business Plans & Entities

428 topics, 4273 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 09:08PM

Real Estate Finance & Legal

Financial, Tax, and Legal

Rss10 Tax, Legal Issues, Contracts, Self-Directed IRA

1349 topics, 9465 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 07:35AM

Rss10 Credit & Credit Repair

182 topics, 1484 posts — Last Post 05/22/12, 06:06PM

Rss10 Property Insurance

135 topics, 851 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 08:31PM

Rss10 Bankruptcy

21 topics, 113 posts — Last Post 05/21/12, 08:25PM

Loans, Mortgages, Credit Lines

Rss10 Private & Conventional Lending Discussion

1346 topics, 8087 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 02:20PM

Rss10 Creative Real Estate Financing

659 topics, 4285 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 10:58AM

Real Estate Professionals

Real Estate Professionals

Rss10 Real Estate Agents

639 topics, 3562 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 07:47PM

Rss10 Bankers, Lenders, and Mortgage Brokers

355 topics, 1268 posts — Last Post 05/04/12, 01:18AM

Rss10 Contractors

122 topics, 670 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 08:51PM

Local Real Estate

International Real Estate

Local Real Estate

Rss10 Local Real Estate Networking

612 topics, 3434 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 02:08PM

Rss10 Americans & International Real Estate

139 topics, 505 posts — Last Post 05/20/12, 02:00PM

Rss10 Foreigners Buying in the USA

56 topics, 288 posts — Last Post 05/02/12, 07:54PM

Rss10 Canadian Real Estate

26 topics, 130 posts — Last Post 03/19/12, 05:58PM

Marketplace

Real Estate Marketplace

Rss10 Mortgages & Lending

392 topics, 1757 posts — Last Post 05/20/12, 03:10AM

Rss10 Residential Property, Land, & Farms For Sale

760 topics, 1463 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 06:58PM

Rss10 Real Estate Events & Happenings

118 topics, 505 posts — Last Post 05/07/12, 10:07PM

Rss10 Commercial Properties for Sale or Lease

224 topics, 671 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 08:42AM

Rss10 Domains & Website Reviews

48 topics, 391 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 07:07AM

Rss10 Classifieds - Promote your Website, Newsletter, or Product

595 topics, 2801 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 06:42PM

Off-Topic

Off Topic

Rss10 Off-Topic

1866 topics, 19997 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 08:12AM

Rss10 Housing News & Real Estate Market

666 topics, 6615 posts — Last Post 05/09/12, 03:11PM

BiggerPockets Resources

Forums » Bulk REO Discussion and REO Dealmaking » anyone know what this is?

anyone know what this is? Subscribe to anyone know what this is?

7 posts by 3 users

Signup

Real Estate Investor · Vancouver, Washington


I got a couple of email promoting a $260M CMO for a few cents on the dollar, and a link to view it.
http://www.zd10.com/Uploads/cmo_screen_shot.pdf
This looks to me like a screen shot of something, but am curious just what it is and if someone can help me understand what it is I was looking at. Is it really a CMO? What would be the outcome if someone would buy this offer, or what would they be trying to acheive with the purchase?

Any information on this would be helpful as I just flat don't have any idea what I was looking at. Just curious, not planning on making any offers so if you want it you can call them. :beer:


Real Estate Consultant · Little Town, Oklahoma


That is a Bloomberg Screenshot

Provides the Issuer, CUSIP, Maturity, and various other identifiers


Real Estate Consultant · Little Town, Oklahoma


It's nice to have minds like the ones I'm surrounded with...

Here's an excerpt from someone I have great respect for and took the time to reply to my request for a definition:

Here you go.


"You are correct, that is a CMO mortgage backed security. More specifically, this bond is an "Interest Only" instrument issued by Fannie Mae. This is a standard Bloomberg snapshot that leaves much to be desired since there are layers & layers of supporting data on pages we cannot view. CMO's have become the latest craze but only licensed individuals can participate in or discuss these instruments. Many non-institutional Buyers have jumped into this market over the past 5 months thinking they could purchase a distressed CMO and unwrap the bond, thus ending up with the individual assets that make up the bond. However, many private Buyers have learned the all too important lesson that one cannot do this. The bond will remain intact regardless of the owners intentions. In addition, one must be able to properly "service/house" a mortgage backed security instrument if they are unable to resell on the open market. One might ask, "Why are these bonds trading at such low levels?" One of the many reasons for our credit crisis & economic shortfalls is the mortgage backed securities market. When an initial bond is "issued", one of the standard rating agencies applies a "rating" to these instruments. Bond "ratings" are determined by a myriad of variables such as "loan product - fixed, ARM, niche, FICO score - A/B/C/etc..." that make up the "collateral" portion of the bond. Stronger loan products & FICO scores obviously draw a stronger "rating". When everyone started to realize that Alt-B & Sub-Prime loan products traditionally failed on a greater scale then anticipated, the "issuers" of these bonds began cramming more & more loans into them to offset the increased default rate. (Need more originations in a hurry, open up the underwriting guidelines.) Eventually, the metrics begin working against you and you end up with an inverse index. Now the rating for this particular bond is found on another Bloomberg page but rest assured, that rating will be dropped when Moody's or "Standard & Poor" gets around to reviewing the performance of this bond. Word to the wise...if you are not a licensed securities broker/dealer, leave the CMO market alone. It's a heavily regulated industry that operates directly between broker dealers/RR's & Institutions. You are going to get circumvented and you have zero recourse because once again, only licensed securities brokers can communicate or participate in these types of transactions. Furthermore, unless you have access to a Bloomberg terminal on an hourly basis, you will never know the true market for the instruments you are attempting to sell. I have lost track over the past 2 months how many times I have "evaluated" a CMO being offered by regular brokers only to find out they are so far outside the market, that the trade would never clear the "cage" where the instrument was to be delivered. Furthermore, offering a CMO outside the acceptable market range for that instrument could be construed as fraudulent behavior."

I hope this helps you better understand the complexities of CMO's...

Chris

:beer:


Real Estate Investor · Vancouver, Washington


Hey thanks Christopher.

That is pretty interesting, and very informative. I would say offhand that this fellow that I know, only very slightly, is on the wrong side of the law. To the best of my knowledge he rents out money, I guess they call it a loan broker. But who knows, he could have a securities license, but I doubt it. When ever he talks I always want to make sure one hand is in my pocket holding on to my wallet.

I guess for all the reasons you point out here, it is no wonder they are trying to sell this for three cents on the dollar. Think I will pass.


Real Estate Consultant · Little Town, Oklahoma


Wise decision,

:beer:


Residential Real Estate Agent · Scottsdale, AZ


Thanks Chris,

That clarifies it, I always suspected CMO's to be hands off, never pursued them, but now it's crystal clear in what they are.


Real Estate Consultant · Little Town, Oklahoma


Sharing industry related knowledge is why most are here. I'm glad it was useful to you

:beer:




Sign up