{"id":100104,"date":"2018-06-25T00:02:55","date_gmt":"2018-06-25T06:02:55","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/renewsblog\/?p=100104"},"modified":"2023-04-26T05:24:22","modified_gmt":"2023-04-26T11:24:22","slug":"biggerpockets-money-podcast-26-graduating-college-on-track-for-financial-independence-cody-berman","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/biggerpockets-money-podcast-26-graduating-college-on-track-for-financial-independence-cody-berman","title":{"rendered":"Graduating College on Track for Financial Independence with Cody Berman"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><strong>Cody Berman<\/strong>: Remember that name because this kid is going places. Currently traveling in Australia, Cody began his journey into personal finance and intentional living as a child, when his dad taught him about compound interest and the power of saving and investing. By age 14, he&#8217;d already saved up $15k, and by the time he reached college, he was diving into entrepreneurship, side hustles, and financial independence plans.<\/p>\n<p>Today, Cody runs a company that manufactures disc golf discs and has afforded himself the freedom to travel with his girlfriend. With an ultimate strategy for complete financial independence in the works, he plans to reach a point where he is able to spend time as he wishes, pursuing his various interest and entrepreneurial pursuits.<\/p>\n<p>If you&#8217;re looking to inspire yourself, your kids, or any ambitious young people you know to make the small changes that will dramatically affect the future, don&#8217;t miss this episode.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/biggerpockets-money-podcast\/id1330225136\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Click here<\/a>\u00a0to listen on iTunes.<\/p>\n<h2>Listen to the Podcast Here<\/h2>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https:\/\/playlist.megaphone.fm?e=BIGPOC1848349339&#038;light=false\" width=\"100%\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h2>Read the Transcript Here<\/h2>\n<div style=\"overflow-y: scroll; max-height: 400px; background: #eee; padding: 20px; border: 1px solid #ddd;\">\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Welcome to BiggerPockets Money Podcast, Show Number 26.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>\u201cFor all the odd jobs and things I worked through high school, I saved probably upwards of 95%. So at the end of high school, I probably was sitting on maybe $15,000. And during that time I had bought a car\u201d.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>It\u2019s time for a new American dream, one that doesn\u2019t involve working in a cubicle for 40 years, barely scraping by. Whether you\u2019re looking to get your financial house in order, invest the money you already have, or discover new paths for wealth\u2019s creation, you\u2019re in the right place. This show is for anyone who has money or wants more, this is the BiggerPockets Money podcast.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>How\u2019s it going, everybody? I\u2019m Scott Trench and I\u2019m here with my co-host, Miss Mindy Jensen. How are you doing today, Mindy? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Scott, I am doing fantastic today. It is a beautiful day to be alive. The sun is shining. We\u2019ve had some rain lately but the sun is shining. My drive was super easy and we have a fantastic show today.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Awesome. Same here. It rained all day yesterday for us. We have a little party at my parents\u2019 house for me and some friends. Apparently it\u2019s going well in Denver.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>It\u2019s beautiful in Denver. You\u2019re really missing out. So Scott is travelling today. Today is an international episode. Today\u2019s show is normally for our listeners but today\u2019s show is not for our listeners. I mean, it doesn\u2019t mean that we don\u2019t want them to not listen, but today\u2019s show is for your 12-year-old. Your 15-year-old. Your 20-year-old. The lessons that our guest shares today can literally change your child\u2019s entire financial future. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Actually, today\u2019s show could be kind of secondhandedly for our listeners. The ideas and concepts that Cody shares are great for older kids but they can also be incorporated into financial teachings you share with your younger kids.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Cody did a lot of things that I think set him up for a lot of options coming into life, starting at 14 or 10 years old, in probably elementary and middle school that kind of translated all through high school. And I think as a parent, this is the kind of story that you\u2019d want your kid to hear about at some point in that phase that maybe they can begin to emulate some of these behaviors. Some of this mindset. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And then think about what you as a parent can do to instill that behavior in your kid. Because I think Cody\u2019s parents probably did a couple of things here that gave him that great mindset.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yeah, I don\u2019t think Cody\u2019s parents did. I know Cody\u2019s parents did several things. He talks about his dad\u2019s 100% interest bank account program, which is pretty amazing. That\u2019s actually something I\u2019m going to talk to my husband about doing for our kids. Because it\u2019s one thing to tell your kids, save money. But bank accounts are paying nothing right now. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">If you can double their money, you know what\u2014I don\u2019t want to spoil this. Actually, his parents did a lot to help him. They instilled some pretty amazing values. The best thing that they instilled in them is hard work. He learned from an early age that you have to work hard to get rewards and he has done that his whole life. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Yeah, absolutely. Well, should we go ahead and bring Cody in?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Let\u2019s hear a word from today\u2019s sponsor before we bring in Cody.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Harvest Returns is the internet\u2019s one-stop shop for investing in agriculture. Did you know farming can make a great addition to your investment portfolio? Investments in sustainable and organic farms offer competitive returns. In a time of financial uncertainty and persistently low interest rates, passive investments, and income-producing farms and ranches provide safe portfolio diversification and offer a hedge against stock market crashes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Harvest Returns allow you to access the same type of farming investments that pension funds and wealthy landowners do with as little as $5,000. Visit HarvestReturns.com to learn more about how to grow your wealth without agriculture. That\u2019s HarvestReturns.com. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">All right, big thanks to today\u2019s sponsor, and with that, let\u2019s bring in Cody.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Cody, welcome to the BiggerPockets Money Show. How\u2019s it going?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>It\u2019s going great. Thanks for having me, guys. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Where are you right now? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Okay, so I\u2019m in Brisbane, Australia. Been here since mid-January, and I\u2019m actually leaving in three weeks so I\u2019m kind of bummed out, going back to reality but it\u2019s been great so far.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>All right, let\u2019s start off with a few quick highlights of your trip. What are some cool things that you\u2019ve been doing down there?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Oh, man. So we just got back from an 11-day trip to Melbourne and Tasmania. We actually drove around the island of Tasmania for eight days and slept in the back of a Rav-4. Yeah, it\u2019s living like a college student. That\u2019s just one of the trips. That\u2019s probably the most extreme camper type of trip we\u2019ve done so far. We also went to Melbourne, Sydney. We also went to New Zealand for a week. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">We\u2019re going up to the Sunday Coast, which is like these beautiful, honeymoonish-looking islands. We\u2019re actually going there next week. We\u2019re leaving this Saturday. Yeah, we\u2019ve just been popping all around. Also, we started off on the West Coast in Perth, so just been trying to see as much of this country as I can while I\u2019m here. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>How did you get into the position? What led up to you kind of having a six-month period here in Australia? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Okay, so I guess I met a really cool girl and now my girlfriend, and she wanted to study abroad, I wanted to study abroad, but she\u2019s two years younger and the way the program worked out, she could only study abroad her second semester sophomore year. Since I was two years older, that would make it my second semester senior year. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So I was like, oh, I don\u2019t really want to do that my last semester. So I was like, all right, I\u2019m just going to graduate early. One, I\u2019m not going to have to pay the university a boatload of money to go travel. I can do it on my dime and do it for as cheap as possible while still having fun. I\u2019ll be able to go with my girlfriend. So I didn\u2019t have to go alone. I don\u2019t have to pay the university, so I\u2019m just here on a working holiday visa, is what they call it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Let\u2019s bring this back to personal finance here. So the reason that you\u2019re in this position is because you graduated early and you\u2019re kind of about to start your career and I guess, journey here. Can you walk us through what seemed to be the starting point? What was the point in which you kind of began prepping yourself for college to kind of set yourself up to graduate early and may be in the financial position you are in today.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>So I think I started at a really young age. My parents were always really into making me study and just work hard, get my schoolwork done, earn the things I had to do. Like we used to have to do\u2014I don\u2019t know if you\u2019ve ever used Puzzlemania and Mathmania books\u2014that might be within your age range. You\u2019re only a few years older than me, but there\u2019s these little books with like math problems and English problems, and I would used to have to do those. I\u2019d have to finish a page to watch half an hour of TV when I was a kid. So I had this really good work ethic and at the same time, to go back to finance, my parents would always just save, save, save. They kind of pound that into my head and so, by the time I actually started earning money, I knew that to save this money, the power of compound interest is just insane. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So actually something my dad did for me up until age 10, because that\u2019s when I wasn\u2019t really getting any money at all, every contribution I\u2019d make to my bank, he would match with 100% interest overnight. So I\u2019d put like 50 bucks in from my grandma, and the next day, it would be 100. I was like, wow. That is the coolest thing ever. My money just doubled overnight. Super unrealistic interest rate in the real world but it definitely taught me the value of, if you put money away into an account that can gain interest for you and make money for you, that you can have a really powerful financial future. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Okay, hang on. I gotta take notes because I\u2019ve got small kids. I really like this idea. I haven\u2019t done this, and really, what\u2019s 50 dollars to me as the mom? And they\u2019re not putting 50 dollars in. They\u2019re only 8 and 11, but this is amazing. I like this tip a lot.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Yeah, I mean I\u2019m no parent but it definitely worked from the child\u2019s side of view, just to teach me about frugality and saving, how important it is. And he used to have me do like compound interest calculations where he\u2019d be like, what\u2019s two times two? What\u2019s four times four? To show me how fast money can double and it was crazy to me.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>So were there any rules on this? Would you have to keep it in there for a certain amount of time or you know, could you not spend it within a couple of weeks, because it seems like if you put the money in, it doubles overnight, you pull it out and you have twice as much to spend. There\u2019s got to be some rules around that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Good point, Scott.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Actually, I think it was just more of a framework that he built so I mean, from age zero to ten, you\u2019re not exactly going out and spending your own money. I kind of got that mindset ingrained to me that early. Like, I\u2019ve had to ask my mom to go to the store to buy me a toy at Toys R Us, and at that age, she\u2019d either say no or she\u2019d buy it for me if she thought it was reasonable. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But I wasn\u2019t really making too many purchases on my own, so I guess by the time I started earning money, which I started making $5.00 an hour at age 10, that\u2019s when my dad stopped contributing to my<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>100% interest bank account. I started working at my uncle\u2019s disc golf shop in the snack shack, just selling like chips and giving back lost discs. So yeah, that\u2019s when I started my career. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Well, that kind of parlayed itself into a career. Spoiler alert.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Cody has a lot to do with disc golf. But we\u2019ll get to that in a minute. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Let\u2019s fast forward here. At age 14, how much money were you kind of sitting on? What were your kind of financial choices looking like at that point?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>I probably had maybe $2,000 to $3,000 by 14, just from working. I mean, I didn\u2019t work that much but I worked a decent amount and all of my savings got doubled. My savings rate was probably literally 99%. I would loathe spending money because I would love seeing it double in the bank. It was like the coolest thing ever. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So when I started actually working, I got my first job as a host at a restaurant and I was making still pretty crappy money but I was putting everything away, still living with my parents, obviously. Well, I guess not obviously, some people have less fortunate situations at age 14, but I was living with my parents. I could save pretty much everything I made and for all the odd jobs and things I worked through high school, I saved probably upwards of 95%. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So at the end of high school, I probably was sitting on maybe $15,000. And during that time, I had bought a car and I kind of wish I had bought a cheaper car at the time. My dad convinced me to get a little more expensive car, but that\u2019s beside the point. So yeah, at the end of high school, I was definitely at an advantageous situation. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Awesome. So I assume that working at this job for this many hours per week that your grades really suffered during this period, right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>No. So kind of like I mentioned before, I just have a really good work ethic and if I got less than an A, it\u2019s not like I got beaten or anything like that, but it was just like, just a bad luck for me to get poor grades. Me and my brother really had that ingrained in our head. Like you have to get good grades to succeed. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">It\u2019s really important for you to learn to educate yourself to become better. And so just throughout high school, I was always just aiming for the top, just shooting for the top. I\u2019d always do like extra credit. I\u2019d always go above and beyond. I did graduate with a pretty good GPA. I graduated sixth in my class. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Oh, wow.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>So I didn\u2019t suffer too much from the sports and the work.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>All right, so a couple of quick questions here. What advantages do you think that starting with $2,000-$3,000 at age 14 and then kind of building up maybe another $10,000-$12,000 throughout high school afforded you. I know you talked about a car. Can you tell us about that purchase and maybe some of the other advantages, how that impacted your life positively in high school?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Yeah, so I guess I\u2019ll go back to the car, which is a mistake that I really wish I could take back. I\u2019m basically crying, talking about it now. But in 2012, i bought a 2009 Volvo. Like S-40 with a sports package. It was just\u2014I bought it for $12,000 and that was the deal because my dad knew the guy. He was like best friends from primary school or something and he sold it to me for 50% off. And that was the deal. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But I mean, if I could go back, I wish I had bought a $2,000 beater and just drove it until the end of high school. I\u2019m just thinking about the compound returns from age 16 when I bought the car until 22 now and I\u2019m like, aw, I could have like almost double the money with the stock market over the last six years. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>So did you pay cash for this car? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Yes, I paid cash straight out of my bank account.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>So that\u2019s a huge advantage here. Because of the work ethic you put in starting at age 10 to 14 and then the increase there in high school, you were able to pay cash for a pretty cool car right there in high school. And you\u2019re talking about a mistake you could have invested but still, that\u2019s a really good situation. You\u2019re driving up in a sporty Volvo.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>It definitely was a cool car but at the time I thought it was the coolest thing ever, but then looking back after you got into this FI world, I\u2019m like, aw man. All you think about is the compound interest. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>So I would like to say that you can\u2019t go back and change times so stop beating yourself up over it. You\u2019re still slightly ahead of the\u2014I\u2019m sorry, how old are you, Cody?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>22.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>22. So I would venture a guess that you are slightly ahead of the average 22-year-old. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Let\u2019s ask two more questions here about the high school space. So first off, what prevented your peers from doing this kind of similar thing? Most kids do not go through high school accumulating\u2014playing three sports, getting good grades, graduating at the top ten of the class, and then accumulating close to $30,000 by the time they graduated high school from hard work. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Yeah, some of that was matched, especially in the early years by your parents for that bank account, but what was preventing the other students from kind of achieving this?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Okay, I think the thing just in society today is kind of the entitlement mindset and I\u2019ve seen that a lot growing up. Like, in just primary school and middle school, high school, college, it\u2019s like I should get a good grade. That\u2019s what people are thinking. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I should do the minimal amount of work and receive an A and I don\u2019t know when that started. I kind of noticed it and I know that a lot of the people in the generation above me had mentioned, they didn\u2019t get trophies when they lost a soccer game when they were kids. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And now everybody\u2019s a winner, you know? It\u2019s kind of like this entitlement mindset where everybody wins, everybody deserves the best. So people don\u2019t want to work for it. And I think that\u2019s what I saw a lot. Like people would want to spend the minimal amount of time on their homework, even if it was something that maybe interested them. They just want to get it over with. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">They don\u2019t care about the learning aspect. They just want to do the homework, get the grade. And they are hoping that grade is a good grade but it doesn\u2019t make too much sense if you\u2019re not putting the effort in.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 \u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>And so you are thinking the difference that kind of separated you is that you put 100% into everything you were doing at this point\u2014school, sports, work, and that was what kind of allowed you to make that distinguishment in all those areas. I assume you were a good athlete in addition to your grades and your finances here. You won the pull-up contest at Camp <\/span><span class=\"s2\">[Inaudible][14:15]<\/span><span class=\"s1\"> of 2018. A little plug there for Cody. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Thanks, Scott. Yeah, so I guess the thing that set me up was just my parents, again, going back to you have to work hard to succeed in this world and that was just something that they really instilled into me. And I guess I just carried that through high school and through college. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Everybody gets the same thing no matter what effort is put forth. Isn\u2019t that called communism? And that doesn\u2019t work. Or on the other side, oh why should I do anything? I get everything that everybody else gets no matter how little effort I put into there. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So, yeah, that entitlement mindset is a huge, huge thing. That is\u2014I don\u2019t even know how I want to say this. What prevented your peers from doing the same thing? Being entitled. Yeah. You\u2019re not going to get anywhere when you feel like you are owed anything. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I think that it\u2019s interesting that your work ethic though, we\u2019re pointing out here, has contributed to excellence in multiple areas. It\u2019s not like you\u2019re a good athlete and that\u2019s it. Or you have the grades. Or you work hard and save money. No, you\u2019re excelling in all these different areas because of that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">You talked about some of the things that your parents have done here. So what kind of specific things do you remember that your parents were doing that might have contributed to this for you? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>I think a thing that they kind taught me to do is goalsetting, so I\u2019ve always been a goal-setter and I think that really helps you just accomplish goals. That\u2019s nice. But if you set many checkpoints along the way, it just feels good accomplishing. Once you get rolling, it\u2019s hard to stop the ball there once it starts rolling. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And if you set goals for yourself and you\u2019re like, okay, I want to get\u2014so back to sports\u2014I want to get my 40-yard dash down to a 4.7 or I want to get an X grade on this. And just like working constantly towards a goal really helps you kind of shape the activities that you want to do to achieve that goal. I think that\u2019s something that\u2019s really, really helped me. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Awesome. So a couple things that you mentioned here as well\u2014the goalsetting, you have the matching on the savings account, you have the just like general example, it sounds like, they set just kind of hard work and all these things seem to really have helped you a lot here. So I find it really interesting and very simple and straightforward.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Yeah, definitely. I don\u2019t know\u2014I\u2019ll just hop into it now. Another thing that\u2019s huge in high school was AP exams, and that\u2019s something that people shy away from just because of the name. I think people are just like, aw, why would I want to go through that extra work? It doesn\u2019t even matter anyways. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Because for some reason, they don\u2019t teach you the incredible savings that AP and also CLEP exams\u2014CLEP exams, I did not have the liberty of taking advantage of in high school because I learned about it a little too late after I started really getting into hacking the college game. But AP exams, for people who don\u2019t know, is an Advanced Placement exam, and basically, it will be on a subject like Social Studies or Science or English. And you take the exam. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">If you score, it\u2019s usually a four or a five on a scale out of five\u2014so zero to five. If you score a four or a five, you\u2019re exempt from taking that class in college. So it counts as college credit. So if you\u2019re going to a private university that costs $60,000 a year to go, and say you take four classes a semester, so you have eight classes for the year. Just some back of the envelope math. So each costs like around $7,000. You\u2019re saving $7,000 by taking an AP exam. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And all it is just taking a different class. You\u2019re taking AP Science instead of regular science in high school. It\u2019s a crazy small choice that can make an enormous difference in your financial future. And then the CLEP exams\u2014don\u2019t ask me what it stands for. It\u2019s CLEP exams. I totally forgot what it stands for, but it\u2019s basically the same as AP, it\u2019s just on a specific subject. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">You actually don\u2019t have to take a course. You don\u2019t have to take a CLEP course. You could just say, oh, I\u2019m really good at Calculus. I\u2019m going to take the CLEP Calculus course. You can go onto the CLEP website, sign up\u2014I think it\u2019s maybe $200-$300 a course but it\u2019s a lot better than $7,000. Or even a few grand at a public university. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And you can just get that general education requirement knocked out. I know people who have got two years ahead, just coming into college with 60 college credits out of 120 by taking AP and CLEP exams. It\u2019s just absolutely insane. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Okay. I\u2019m just going to dive a little bit deeper into this because I have children and like we said earlier, this episode is for the older kids, the 12-year-old, the 15-year-old, the 20-year-old. Let\u2019s pretend I\u2019m in high school. When can you start taking AP classes?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>So I think typically the first year is sophomore year. Anyway, at my high school. It depends on the high school. At my high school, it was pretty good at offering AP. If you\u2019re at a really rural high school, they might have few Aps. You can take independent AP courses by yourself online. I know it\u2019s a little hard to stay motivated when you don\u2019t have a teacher, but you do have like an online guide. I had a few friends who did that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But I\u2019d say, you can start sophomore year. So if your kids wanted to start, you could just start prepping them. You could get them signed up sophomore year. They could take upwards of four or five AP classes in one semester. I mean, you could take 20 by the time you graduate. It\u2019s pretty crazy. It\u2019s almost<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>every subject. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>You could take 20 classes in high school that count for your high school diploma and also count for your college courses. And I\u2019m assuming these are free because you\u2019re taking them in high school. Like you don\u2019t pay to go to high school. I\u2019m sorry, a public high school.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Yeah, so the courses are free, like an AP courses in high school are free. I think the AP exam, a lot of them are subsidized by the high school. I think I paid like $75.00 for each one of my AP exams. I took four. So, it wasn\u2019t a big hit but I got exempt from all those in college. So that was just a huge savings for me. I was like more than a semester ahead coming into college.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>So every AP exam that you take, the $75.00 charge or whatever\u2014I\u2019m assuming you have to pass the exam but then that gets you out of a class in college. You don\u2019t have to pay for it but you\u2019d still get credit for it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>For example, I took AP English. That was one I took. AP English in high school. You take the test. The scale is from zero to five. If you get a four or five, it counts as college credit pretty much at every university. I\u2019d say 99.9% of universities accept AP exams as credit, unless you\u2019re at some crazy university that I have never heard of. But yeah, you just are complete, just checked off the checkbox that says General Education Requirement- English\u2014done, when you\u2019re in college. You don\u2019t have to take it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Wow. I thought my big hack was going to a community college for this. But still, I mean I\u2019m a little older than you. It was a couple of hundred dollars for the classes when I went to college, I believe before you were born. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I also had a number of AP classes in high school as well and they helped me avoid some of these classes in college. And instead of graduating early like Cody, I actually got a dual-major and double minor, partially because I had taken some of those AP classes that counted towards college credit. The one that I had wish I had done in high school but skipped on was the Foreign Language. Because if you get the Foreign Language, you actually can avoid a very lengthy amount of hours. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">It was two semesters\u2014I had to take two semesters of Spanish in college because I did not pass this AP exam in high school. So if I had just done that, I might have been able to skip this and not have to take it. And obviously, Spanish is a great language to study but it wasn\u2019t really relevant to the career I was pursuing so it was a very large amount time I had to invest in the senior year of college. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But yeah, these AP exams, these AP classes were around when I was in high school ten years ago or so. But a couple of things to do here\u2014you didn\u2019t mention this but I bet you that you prepared in a lot of ways to take these classes in middle school, right? By taking kind of the advanced classes there, doing your homework, getting good grades so that you could place into these advanced classes in high school. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I think you can still take them if you are already in high school and moving on but it gets a lot easier if you can kind of keep your grades up and have these things in place prior to high school and work hard then so that the coursework is much easier and you\u2019re able to get into those. Is that correct?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>I totally agree. I mean, if you start taking those advanced classes earlier, I think the one they start branching out is like sixth grade, they start kind of tiering out the student learning levels. But it\u2019s not like if your kid isn\u2019t in an advanced class right now, they\u2019re absolutely screwed for AP exams. You don\u2019t have to have certain prerequisites. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Anybody can enroll in an AP course. You just have to have the grit and the determination to finish and work a little bit harder. Honestly, it\u2019s not that much harder than the regular class. You\u2019re just kind of learning more geared towards the test rather than just like learning random facts the teacher might want you to know about the subject. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>This is an amazing way to just skip some huge college debt. I mean, everybody talks about how difficult it is to pay for college. A couple of weeks ago, I think it was episode 22\u2014we had Travis Hornsby on from The Student Loan Planner and he talked about how you can pay off or defer your student loans, your six-figure student loans. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Here\u2019s a way to defer or just completely absolve yourself of some of these student loans just by bringing in some high school credit. I mean, what are you doing in high school? I would much rather have my kids not be working a job and instead working on not having to take these college classes. I mean, how soon did you get out of college? You were a semester early? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Yeah, so three and a half years.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Okay.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>I actually could have graduated in three years but I kind of wanted to live at college one more year. One more semester. Honestly, that\u2019s the reason. I really liked the friend group I was with. We were living in an awesome house and yeah, I was like, I\u2019ll just take another semester. The last semester at college, it was the most amazing feeling. I took classes that I actually wanted to learn. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And it sounds crazy. That\u2019s not what college is. But a lot of the classes you take, it\u2019s just classes you have to take for your major. I don\u2019t know who set that up or why it\u2019s like that, but you really don\u2019t get to just pick and choose the exact classes you want. You have to take this class to get to this class, and it\u2019s just all of these hoops and hurdles you have to jump through to get the degree. But the last semester, I really got to take the classes I wanted. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Awesome. One other point about these AP classes, by the way, is that these are often looked for by college admissions. They\u2019re not looking to have you skip half a semester or whatever. They\u2019re looking because they know you\u2019re taking rigorous coursework and excelling in it and they can tell that by objective national standard on these test scores for these AP exams, to tell if you pass or not.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Can you quickly give us a\u2014it sounds like this CLEP stuff is the exact same as AP except for it\u2019s an online course you take outside the scope of your normal high school curriculum? It doesn\u2019t count for high school credit or anything but it can be used to give you a college credit you could do in addition to your AP work, is that correct?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Yes, that is completely correct. So I wouldn\u2019t say in addition in the terms of to supplement a class that\u2019s not offered by AP but you wouldn\u2019t take AP Calculus and then take the CLEP exam for Calculus. That\u2019s redundant and you\u2019d just be knocking out the same class. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But yeah, a CLEP exam is basically a self-study exam. I think there are online courses and stuff. I don\u2019t know the specifics because I didn\u2019t do it but I know that most high schools don\u2019t offer CLEP courses but I\u2019d say 90% of high schools do offer AP courses. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I think it\u2019s honestly up to preference. I really don\u2019t know if there\u2019s an advantage to either. You can also do self-study AP exams so if my school didn\u2019t offer AP English, for example, I could get the AP English book, take an online course, and take the AP English exam without taking the class in high school. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Awesome.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>So you made all these great choices\u2014academics, sports, financial, all that kind of stuff. Let\u2019s move onto the selection of your college and kind of how you financed that. So what were you looking for in a college?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>So I was actually torn between\u2014I knew I was going to study finance and economics so I was kind of geared towards that, and honestly, for a bad reason, I guess\u2014after doing a lot of Google searches, I learned that you could make a lot of money in finance after four years with a college degree, and that\u2019s kind of what drove me. Because I was kind of obsessed with money at that point. You guys know my upbringing and just the savings rate and everything like that. I\u2019m going to earn so much more money. It\u2019s going to be awesome. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So I started looking at schools for like finance and economics. I applied to a bunch of schools. I was down to two final schools. One was a state school. One is a private university. The private university actually got a half off academic scholarship, and it was still $30,000 per year. And I was like, that\u2019s going to hurt.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So I ended up choosing the state university. Basically just from my frugal roots. I was like I don\u2019t want to come out with student debt. My parents said they\u2019ll help me as much as I can but I knew that they weren\u2019t going to be able to take on a $30,000 a year bill. So I ended up going to a state university and paying only about $5,000 a year. So that worked out a lot better. I came out at the end of three and a half years with a little over $15,000 paid. No debt. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">My parents paid most of it for me. I helped out when I could but that was just a choice that set me up for huge financial success because I remember that episode with Travis and student loan debt just cripples people, especially when people get up into the upwards hundreds of thousands. It takes years and years to pay back. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yeah, some of the comments that we got from that episode, one guy said that I knew a guy who was a veterinarian and he committed suicide because he had such crippling student loan debt and getting a 50% scholarship is awesome until you do the math and the 50% is still, what, six times as much as it would cost you to go to the state school. What do you think would be your level of education going to the private school versus going to the state school? I mean, did you get six times less of an education? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>No, definitely not. So yeah, that is something I\u2019d like to highlight. I mean, there are definitely advantages to private school but there are advantages to public schools or state schools as well. So private school is something I\u2019ve noticed, especially in the business space, they do have a really tight network so you might have a company that literally recruits from X University.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Like say you go to Harvard. They might only recruit from Harvard and that\u2019s just a thing that you can\u2019t really work around. That\u2019s very hard to break into a role that only recruits from certain colleges. But at a state university level, if you go to a state university, oftentimes they have a huge alumni network because a lot of people go to state schools because they are cheaper. So you have access to people that work at hundreds or thousands of companies within your industry.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So something I did was like, I\u2019d reach out to people on LinkedIn when I was in college and I had an alumni at almost pretty much every major financial institution that I wanted to work at. So I always kind of got a foot in the door if I got the conversation rolling. That was a huge advantage of the state school and obviously the cost savings is the biggest advantage.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But state schools are not really as bad as it seems. It\u2019s really all about all going back to that entitlement mindset. I think private schools might have smaller classrooms so they can kind of push you a little harder on an individual student level. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">If you have 400 people in a lecture hall, the teacher isn\u2019t going to point you out and say, hey, you should work a little harder. Because they don\u2019t really know you. But if you\u2019re already the type of person who has that hard-working mindset, I think you can really excel and learn a ton from a state university. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Wow, you mentioned using LinkedIn. Did you just randomly\u2014I don\u2019t use LinkedIn very much. Did you just randomly send notes to people?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Yeah, so this was something that was actually baffling to me. I first joined this thing called The Finance Society when I got into school and the senior that ran it, he was a social whiz, kind of. He was going into investment banking and he was teaching us all the tips and tricks like how to talk, how to eat, how to connect with people in a business sense.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So he was like, reach out to three people on LinkedIn every single day and just send them a message saying you\u2019re interested in what they\u2019re doing in their company and try to set up a phone call. He was like, 90% of the people won\u2019t even answer you, but the 10% that will, will just help you tremendously in your road to success or lending a career down the road.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So that\u2019s what I did. I was reaching out to two to three people pretty much every single day and I had an Excel document of over 500 contacts that I had contacted, over my college career, from companies that I was interested in and just like getting these phone calls and kind of getting your foot in the door. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I mean, talking to these people on the phone makes you a lot more presentable on interviews. You can actually talk. You don\u2019t just freeze up. You\u2019re actually conversational. You can talk about the markets. You can talk about whatever the job might be, like whatever might be specific to the job. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">One word of caution is, don\u2019t reach out to people and say hey, can I have an internship? Because they\u2019re just going to say who the heck is this guy asking me for an internship? You just want to say something like hey, I notice you work at X company. I\u2019m really interested in that field. Could you tell me more about what you do and how you got there?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Also, another word to the wise is aim for people who are younger so on LinkedIn, you can tell people\u2019s age usually just by their picture. If you\u2019re reaching out to a 50 or 60-year-old managing director, chances are, they\u2019re not going to answer you and they\u2019re not going to have time for a phone call. If you\u2019re reaching out to someone like me or someone in their early twenties, they\u2019re probably going to pick up the phone. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">They had just gotten their Analyst Associate role and they\u2019d be more than happy to have a conversation with a college student. And you can just get your foot in the day so they can push your resume to HR and say hey, this awesome kid just reached out to me so I\u2019d definitely aim for younger, but if you can get a conversation with those\u2014then you can leverage conversations with the higher-ups. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Yeah, so you\u2019re reaching out to two to three\u2014this is a great tip, by the way, and this might not even be a tip just for college students. This might be for everyone in their careers at all times. You know, like just keep reaching out to people and getting to know people and seeing how you can learn from them. People love talking about what they do, right? And how to do it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">You said that reach out to two to three people a day. Would you have one call a week, then? Or how many people were responding to you? Did you see an improvement in that success rate above 90% not responding over time or how did that work? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Over time, definitely. Sophomore year, people did not care at all that I was reaching out to them. They\u2019re like, who is this guy? I\u2019m just going to click delete. So I maybe had like one or two phone calls a week but I was peddling pretty hard. I guess as my career advanced, my resume got stronger and I had internships and a lot of experience. I started getting like maybe a 40% call setup rate my senior year and junior year. So it definitely got better as time went on. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Awesome. What were your\u2014I\u2019m sorry to abruptly transition here but what were your extracurriculars while you were doing this? You mentioned The Finance Society here. What else were you doing in college besides that?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Yeah, so Finance Society, I only did for maybe the first two years. It was kind of like the level intro stuff. And I kind of stopped attending meetings after the first two years. The most instrumental thing in my college learning, though, is this thing called the Minutemen Fixed Income Fund. So we actually traded corporate credit on the school\u2019s endowment money. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And so I was looking at bonds, mostly junk bonds because they actually move more than the really stable blue chip credit. Like a Disney bond is not going to move many points in the day but we were looking at high yield bonds. It\u2019s basically like equity analysis, like you\u2019re evaluating stock, finding free cash flow, finding intrinsic value, except you\u2019re taking it one step farther because you\u2019re looking at debt and cash flow and just a different part of the cap structure. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But it\u2019s basically the same exponential modeling and save stock. So I think I learned more in that fund, which probably took up 20 hours a week than I did in all of my college classes. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>What is this fund called? The Minuteman what? You said that really fast.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>The Minutemen Fixed Income.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>And this is a mutual fund?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>No, it was\u2014the school I went to, its endowment fund. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Oh, okay.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Not the full endowment. We got a piece of the endowment to manage, which was awesome because it was real money so we had to be good. It wasn\u2019t like anybody could join this group. I had to go through like a pretty extensive process to get in and then just worked my butt off over the next two years after I got in. I got in after my first semester sophomore year. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And then I guess, to add on, I was also a part of the investment club. So that kind of sprung my financial interest. I guess investment club, so that\u2019s where I first did a soft pitch competition. So that kind of sprung my interest into looking into companies. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I was like, finance is pretty cool. And that catapulted me into the Fixed Income Fund. So those were the two most influential extracurriculars I was a part of. I guess fun extracurriculars, I played intramural basketball, flag football. So I was still doing fun stuff. I\u2019m not just this finance nerd in these weird clubs. I\u2019m a normal guy. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Yeah, I was going to say, these clubs seem to have nothing to do with the concept of financial independence at all, right? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Oh, no. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Just kidding. That was a bad joke. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>You love those.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>You\u2019re totally right. I appreciate that, Scott. I like those jokes on the show. I remember actually talking to you about this at Camp FI. Very different being smart financially from a corporate perspective and being smart financially from a personal perspective. They are two completely different animals. And that\u2019s something I\u2019ve noticed. I have friends who have spent $10,000 in a day because that\u2019s what they got for their signing bonus. I\u2019m just like, aw. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>So why do you think that is? Why do you think these people in your clubs here\u2014these are people who are interested in finance who theoretically understand finance, who are managing maybe millions of dollars for this endowment fund, I imagine. Why are they not interested in learning about their personal finances? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>I think the idea\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Why did you become interested in it versus them, I guess?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Okay, so I\u2019ll tackle your first question first. Why aren\u2019t they interested? I think just the mindset in finance, especially, is just money hungry, power crazy. That\u2019s like the typical Wall Street investment banker mindset. Sorry to any Wall Street investment banker listening to this. I\u2019ve had a lot of conversations with them and I had like a lot of interviews and that\u2019s just the mindset and vibe you get from those offices. People are just out to make more money, make more money, make more money. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And so they\u2019re not really worried about their expenses. They don\u2019t care about how much they spend because they can always make more money. That\u2019s the mindset. It doesn\u2019t matter. I\u2019ll make $500,000 next year. I can spend $500,000 this year. It\u2019s just this crazy mindset that just perpetuates and when you\u2019re forty years old, and you\u2019re in $500,000 worth of debt because you have three houses and beyond, you\u2019re like, oh wow. I really wish I could have turned back the clock. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>And started when you were 10?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Yeah, and started when you were 10.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>So why do you think you were different? Why do you think you were so interested in finance and all of this coming in? What was the difference where you discovered maybe another way to approach money?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Yeah, so I kind of did have that money-hungry thing. I told you that\u2019s why I chose finance going into college. And I really thought, I was like, aw, I can\u2019t wait to be an investment banker. I\u2019m going to make so much money. It\u2019s going to be awesome. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But I still have those roots of savings. I was like, I\u2019m going to make $100,000 plus straight out of college and I\u2019m going to save it all. I\u2019m going to be rich. And yeah, so I guess that was the difference. It was just that foundation that my parents had laid for me, that savings mindset. I did think that I was just going to keep making money, making money, making money, but I also thought I was going to save it. And I always kind of had this financial independence thought in my head. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I never really had a framework to it. Or to put words to it. I didn\u2019t really know the concept. I didn\u2019t know anything about the Four Percent Rule. I didn\u2019t know anything about Roth Conversion Ladders and all of these crazy tips and tricks you hear in the financial independence community, but after I got introduced at age 19, actually, I was fortunate\u2014my mom told me because I always kind of had an entrepreneurial spirit to me. She said, you should read this book. It was <i>The Four-Hour Work Week<\/i> by Tim Ferris. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And I was like, okay. Gave it a read and I was just hooked. I was like, this is the coolest thing ever. You can earn\u2014you can earn income working, you can set these passive income streams that pay you for your life? I was like, that\u2019s the coolest thing ever. So I just started like brainstorming right away and I did have two failed businesses, Scott. I know you have the Trench\u2019s Tees, I think you mentioned? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I also had a failed clothing company just because I didn\u2019t really put any effort into it. And I also had a tutoring company I tried to start and I was like going to be the head of it and hire all these tutors. That didn\u2019t work at all just because I didn\u2019t put the effort in. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">We\u2019ll jump back to this a little after I talk about more college stuff. But I finally did have some successful ventures after reading about Tim Ferris and <i>The Four-Hour Work Week<\/i>. So that kind of just jumpstarted my financial independence journey. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Did you work during college?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Yeah so actually, this was the best job ever. I got really lucky when I got this job. I was like, I\u2019m not smarter than the rest. I\u2019m not better. I just got lucky that I got this teacher\u2019s assistant job. I had a senior who was working in Operation Information Management, so basically, just to sum it up, that is a course about Microsoft Office, so Excel, PowerPoint, Access. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And she was graduating. She knew me from my hometown so I hadn\u2019t talked to her for like two or three years. She was like, hey, do you want this job? You\u2019re a pretty smart kid. And I was like, oh, all right. Cool. Took the job and it was like the best job I could ever ask for. So not only did I learn to become like an Excel guru, not to toot my own horn but I am really good at Excel because I spent probably thousands on it and teaching a course on it. I independently taught like a 30-person course on Excel. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But I also had lab hours and what lab hours were, I monitored the lab. So I\u2019d sit in a lab for 20 hours a week and do my homework and maybe answer questions for 20 hours. And get paid, $13.00 an hour the whole time. So I was making like $400 every other week doing lab hours. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Homework. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Homework.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Yeah. So that was huge. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>There were a lot of jobs like this at my school as well and a big regret of mine is that I didn\u2019t take one and do exactly that. It\u2019s boomed to your grades and your finances and it\u2019s just all during the day. It doesn\u2019t impact your social life. It\u2019s great.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Yeah, I mean, again\u2014I was saving 95% of my income. I did help somewhat pay for school but what were my expenses? I had\u2014luckily my first two years, I had my dining paid for by my parents, which wasn\u2019t too expensive. And I actually\u2014the scholarships I got, which I\u2019ll talk about in a minute, helped out with that. They actually helped pay for food but my real expenses were alcohol, which is like a $12.00 handle a week. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Nice. What was the handle of choice?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Rubinoff. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Ah, there you go.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>What\u2019s Rubinoff?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Only after 21, of course, right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Only after 21, yes. I strategically came into college at age 21.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Nice. Good job. Okay, so how does somebody find these jobs? These \u201cjobs\u201d, because you\u2019re not really working. But you are getting paid for it. I mean, I\u2019m not saying that you\u2019re slacking but if there\u2019s nobody asking you questions, what are you supposed to do? Hound people and say hey, can I help you with anything? Do you have any questions? They\u2019re like, no, go away. I\u2019m just doing my homework. So how do you find those?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>So, I guess I didn\u2019t really know the concept until I got the job but then I was like, wow, there\u2019s a lot of these jobs. So like the engineering and tax space, there\u2019s the same lab positions. We just basically sit in the computer lab and monitor the lab. They just want to make sure people aren\u2019t like defacing the properties, stealing computers, stuff like that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And I\u2019m pretty sure most universities that I\u2019ve ever been to have a computer lab or some kind of library lab or something like that, but my best word of advice is just, get a job, somewhat related to your major. So Microsoft is huge in finance, so I was really fortunate to get that. But even if not, just get one of those lab type jobs or library office job and you will definitely have time to do your homework. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">What not to do is to get a like cafeteria or caf\u00e9 job at your university because no networking opportunities, you get paid terribly, and you can\u2019t do your homework at all. So that\u2019s my biggest word of advice. I mean, obviously if you can\u2019t find any other jobs and you need money, then sure. Do that. But there are definitely those jobs where you can do your homework and get paid and it\u2019s awesome.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I think it\u2019s just about keeping your eyes open and looking for them, right? And saying yes to opportunities that go down that rabbit hole. I mean, I didn\u2019t look for them until it was too late. You start a semester ahead of time and you might get it for the semester. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Exactly. Yes. And I got it my first semester sophomore year so it wasn\u2019t like I just hopped in, obviously. If I hadn\u2019t taken the course, I probably shouldn\u2019t be a teacher\u2019s assistant anyway. But yeah, so I mean it did take a little bit and I had to network a little bit. I had that friend from high school but I also just had to interview for the position. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So just a little reminder, leveraging myself and having the exposure because I was talking to those finance professionals, so I had interview practice. I practice talking on the phone so that helped a lot. So just kind of setting yourself up in those opportunities. I know, Scott, you like create your own luck and I like that, too. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yeah, last week\u2019s episode, Debbie said you find what you\u2019re looking for. And if you\u2019re not looking for this job, you\u2019re not going to find it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Exactly. You\u2019ve just got to look. I mean, you really just gotta look and the opportunities will start to present themselves. Just put yourself out there. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>All right, so how are you able to apply to so many different scholarships and set yourself up to get these kinds of options going to college? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Yeah, so I guess one thing I did was what I like to call templifying everything. So with scholarships, I\u2019d say the 80-20 Rule. 80% of the scholarships, you can use the same five of six essays, give or take a few tweaks to apply. So I mean, I probably applied to 100, maybe a little more than 100 scholarships over my four years of college. And some of them, if you get in early\u2014so I was applying in high school as well. I should mention, take a step back. If your kid\u2019s in high school or you\u2019re a high schooler listening to this, start applying now. Even junior year in high school, you could start locking in four-year scholarships for college. It is absolutely insane. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So I have two favorite scholarship sites. One is Scholly and the other one is\u2014it\u2019s Scholly.com. That one is $2.99 per month but I can guarantee you that you will make your money back, not tenfold\u2014a thousand-fold or even more. I mean, just earning one $500 scholarship, you\u2019re going to pay that back.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Is that $299 a month or $2.99?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>No, sorry. $2.99 per month.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Oh, my God. That\u2019s even better. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Oh no, I would never ever tell someone to sign up for a potential scholarship site for $299 a month.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I don\u2019t know, I think a lot of people are thinking that that\u2019s even worthwhile at $299 a month.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>No, $2.99 a month. And they are just\u2014from my perspective, they have the best matchmaking\u2014your skillset and your background to scholarships that I\u2019ve ever seen. So you type in all your criteria, you type in your major, your ethnicity, I don\u2019t know, your gender. Like everything. Every little thing. Your heritage. Where you grew up.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Every little thing could factor into the scholarships. You guys could get the Colorado scholarship. And there\u2019s just all these little scholarships for just every different little niche. And there could maybe be only five people applying to scholarships. So it\u2019s really worth just checking out every one. So that\u2019s Scholly.com.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Scholarships.com is also pretty good. That one is free but it\u2019s not as good matchmaking. Again, I think you do get what you pay for, even though it\u2019s $2.99 a month. It\u2019s a little better matchmaking so I did find a lot more personalized and specific scholarships to my skillset and my background on Scholly. So that was huge. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So even applying to one, just like set a reminder on your phone or apply to one every day or every other day. And if you already have these five or six templates set up with these like general questions, like why do you want to pursue X major? What\u2019s your biggest goal in life? Tell me about your biggest failure. What did you learn from it? Those are like the generic scholarship questions you hear about all the time. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And you can set up these templates and maybe make a few tweaks to them. Maybe 20-30 minutes to make a tweak to X scholarship and you could probably do one of these every day or every other day. And by the end of your scholarship hunting period, you\u2019ve applied to 50 or 100 scholarships and you\u2019re bound to get at least one. I mean, if you don\u2019t get one, that\u2019s just really, really unfortunate. And you\u2019re probably doing something wrong. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But the barriers to entry are not too high on some of these scholarships. I mean, there\u2019s honestly ten or less of people that are applying to some of these local community scholarships. You might not even know they exist unless you start looking. The same thing can be said for internships. So I did the exact same thing with what\u2019s called the cover letter. I\u2019m sure people are familiar with what a resume is. It\u2019s usually a one-page piece of paper just detailing your work experience, what your skills are, stuff like that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">A cover letter is expressing your interest in X company. So I want to work for Google, say. Okay, tell them why you want to work for Google, why you could be an asset for their company. And it\u2019s basically the same thing for the scholarship. You write four, five, or six cover letters detailed to different companies within your specific subset. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So like I had a cover letter for wealth management positions. I had a cover letter for investment banking positions. I had a cover letter for analyst positions. And they were all slightly different but you make it a little personalized, maybe you include the person\u2019s name that you reached out to in LinkedIn, going back to the networking thing. Oh, I talked to Scott on the phone. I met him on LinkedIn. And they\u2019re like, oh, he knows Scott. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And then the HR recruiter brings it to Scott\u2019s desk and Scott\u2019s like yeah, this kid\u2019s awesome. It\u2019s just getting your foot in the door that way. And if you have these templates set up, you can kind of mass apply to internships. Same thing with scholarships. It\u2019s just a huge advantage. I really think maybe in some specific cases, it\u2019s quality over quantity. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">If there\u2019s one company you want to work for, then don\u2019t do a mass cover letter. Make a really personalized cover letter talking about really fine-grain specifics of why you want to work for that company. But I really think it\u2019s quantity over quality with these types of things, with scholarships and especially internships in the early years. Because you don\u2019t know what you want to do. You just want to get your foot in the door. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">as always. It is a beautiful day. We\u2019ve had a lot of rain here in Denver in the last couple of days, last couple of weeks, really. Lots of hail. And today is a beautiful sunny day. I got to record a podcast today. I love today\u2019s guest. Erin Lowry, who I have known for five years and just discovered 25 minutes ago that her last name is not pronounced Low-ry. It\u2019s pronounced Lowry. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Erin Lowry is here today with us to talk about money and relationships. I think this is really important to talk about because money is the number one thing couples fight about. The number one cause of divorce. I actually shouldn\u2019t say that, I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s the number one cause of divorce. I do know it\u2019s the number one cause of fights in relationships. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Making sure you\u2019re on the same page as your spouse or significant other financially is so important to your happiness, to your life, and when you\u2019re sitting there fighting with your significant other, your whole life just kind of sucks. It kind of just drains on you. So I think this is a really, really, really great show today. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>I have a comment about this. So I didn\u2019t apply for scholarships and internships but I did apply for a lot of jobs once. I decided I was done with my current job. I wanted a new one. My tip is re-read right before you send it. This was back in the day, fax machines, but re-read the whole thing before you send it because I sent a note to XYZ Company professing my profound desire for ABC Company. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So I\u2019m like, oh, I\u2019m not going to get that job. I already had said it. You can\u2019t like suck it back in. I didn\u2019t even follow up because I knew they weren\u2019t going to call me. So just one last time, right before you send it, make sure the e-mail address that you\u2019re sending it to, Bob@XYZCompany is also with the letter that says, I want to work at XYZ Company. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Yeah, so I guess just another little actionable tip that people want to use. So all the parts that I changed, I keep in capital letters and red font. So until all of the red font and capital letters are gone, I do not send it. Because that is all the company names, all the specifics about the company. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I\u2019ll have like several signs that says in capital letters like, do not send this out unless this is specific to X Company. So every time I redo one, it\u2019s not like I already have Google in there and then I\u2019m applying to Facebook. And then I just have to look for Google in the document\u2014I have a template that\u2019s all bold, highlighted red text that says make sure you change this. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Nice. Yeah, that\u2019s a great tip.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I use this all the time in my work for what I do professionally. And one thing I\u2019ll say is that if you have a typo in the meat of this letter that\u2019s the part you\u2019re not editing, it also gets sent out to everyone that you sent these things to. So make sure that you have a very professional template before you go in and double and triple and quadruple check that before you start blasting these out. I had a couple of embarrassing ones.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Oh, man. A great tool for that\u2014I don\u2019t know if you guys use it or if your listeners use it, is Grammarly. And it\u2019s just a Chrome extension and it checks your grammar and syntax and everything for you. So if you screw up a word or you forget a comma, it will tell you and you can fix it. So it\u2019s pretty awesome.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yes. I was going to bring that up because we use that at BiggerPockets and it\u2019s amazing. I like to think that I\u2019m pretty spot on but I get fat-finger typing and you hit the wrong subject-verb agreement\u2014it\u2019s really a great extension.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>It\u2019s awesome. And I guess I just want to touch on one last thing with like the interviews\u2014not so much scholarships, because it\u2019s not as much face-to-face. But with like an interview, it wasn\u2019t full-time or internships but this was something that I kind of started to think about once I\u2019m in the Minutemen Fixed Income Fund, you have to interview into it like I said before. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So once I got to the senior level, I started interviewing people. It was weird being on the side of the table at such a young age, because you only know being the interviewee side of the table. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But something that I like urge people to think about is think like an employer when you\u2019re at an interview. So if you just go in and you\u2019re pretty bland and you\u2019re like, I kind of want to work for you guys. I\u2019m pretty average. Then you\u2019re not going to be remembered. They\u2019re not going to remember your name. They\u2019re not going to leave a memory in that employer\u2019s mind. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But if you\u2019re thinking like an employer, like I need to do something that really stands out, so for example, I can\u2019t speak to every major but I would bring a binded report in, like a 20-page laminated report of a company I covered. And right off the bat, this kid\u2019s legit, like nobody else is doing that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So it sets me apart right away. And just thinking like an employer and having that mindset, it just made you seem a lot more legit and made you seem a lot more professional than the competition. You stand out right away. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Awesome. I think it\u2019s a great tip.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>That is a wonderful tip. Okay, so we\u2019ve heard a lot about your successes. Let\u2019s hear about your failures. These failed clothing company business. I don\u2019t even know how you could fail at that because everybody wears clothes. Oh wait, you didn\u2019t put any effort into it. Are you a millennial and you\u2019re just entitled? I started this company. I made a website. Come to me. If you build it, they will come, right? Why didn\u2019t that work out?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>So I did start social media. I had like an Instagram, Twitter, I had the whole shebang. I also started a website. It wasn\u2019t a great website. I didn\u2019t put too much effort into it. But I don\u2019t want to spoil my idea, in case I do it later on\u2014I won\u2019t tell you the name of the company or exactly what\u2014it\u2019s a specialty clothing company. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But I was just way over my head and I was like, all right, I really don\u2019t know what I\u2019m doing here and like, getting manufactured t-shirts from this warehouse in China and getting like specific customizations and stuff. I\u2019m like, I\u2019m in way over my head. I kind of just dropped the whole idea and said, all right, this adventure is not for me.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So it was a lack of effort but also just kind of jumping in over my head. Honestly, maybe if I had stuck with it and didn\u2019t give up on myself, it could have been successful. Who knows. I can\u2019t turn back time like you said, Mindy, but yeah, it did fail.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Also, another problem with this is this is an entrepreneurial venture, I assume, that needed some capital to get going, right? You probably needed like a couple of thousands, maybe a couple of hundred, maybe to a couple thousand. And that is very scary to a college student to kind of put up that kind of money to start something, right? So I assume that your next venture here was probably something that was much less capital-intensive. Is that correct, with the tutoring?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>The tutoring was actually before. I set them up in the wrong order. The tutoring was first. That was zero capital. That was like no capital intensity at all. I actually started\u2014I didn\u2019t start a website. I didn\u2019t have a social media or anything. I just kind of like wrote a Word document of my business plan and started to advertise on Craigslist. And what do you know? Nobody contacted me. I was going to start by myself, build it up, and then hire tutors. It didn\u2019t work like that at all.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I did some tutoring back in high school so I was like, I\u2019ve got the expertise. These people are going to hire me. Like, I had my resume attached to it with the tutoring thing. I was like, oh yeah, this is going to be a goldmine. Nobody reached out to me. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">It was a total lack of effort. I mean, I could have built a successful tutoring platform if I had wanted to but I think that was more of just a kind of giving up. That was freshman year, so I was kind of just testing out college, you know, hanging out, probably drinking a few too many nights. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>All right, so let\u2019s move onto one that did work. When did you start the one that did work and what is that business?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Okay, so I started Arsenal Discs June of 2016. Like I told you before, I worked in a disc golf store\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Scott Wait. What year of college was that for you?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Junior year of college. So yeah, junior year of college, I already had this disc golf background. Like I said, I worked at the disc golf snack shack at my uncle\u2019s disc golf course, which was conveniently just right across the street. So I had been playing since I was about seven or eight years old. I was super into the sport, for people who don\u2019t know, disc golf is just like ball golf except you\u2019re throwing plastic disc into what\u2019s called a pin. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">It\u2019s like a metal basket with chains. You throw the disc in. There\u2019s drivers, mid-ranges, putters. The whole thing. It\u2019s basically the same as golf except instead of hitting a club\u2014swinging a club and hitting a ball into a hole, you\u2019re throwing a disc, a piece of plastic into a chain or a basket. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So just a quick background, because I know a lot of people are like, what\u2019s disc golf? So yeah, long story short, into disc golf. Really into the community. I had a lot of friends in this disc golfing community. I knew everyone that came to play so I was like, I want to start a disc golf business. Because the market was kind of unsaturated. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">There wasn\u2019t too many competitors. There was maybe eight or ten major players and there was almost eight or ten major players in the manufacturing market. There was probably two or three million global players. So this was a pretty good market. Even with a 1% market share, I could start making some money. I just started growing a business, having fun with this, so yeah. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I reached out to my mechanical engineer friend\u2014this is a friend from high school who was just like super into creating, because I don\u2019t have any of the expertise. I don\u2019t know how to create a CAD file. I don\u2019t know how to run flow tests on all of these crazy programs. But he was into that. He was like all right, I\u2019ll work with you. I want to create these discs. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So we started looking at competitors\u2019 discs, what made them successful, what made them not, and we just kind of started the drawing board. He started creating these CAD files, which is Computer Automated Design or Drawing\u2014don\u2019t ask me. I\u2019m not an engineer. You engineers will probably make fun of me or correct me if you\u2019re listening to this episode, but yeah, he was making the CAD drawings. We\u2019d do wind tunnel tests. We\u2019d do flow tests. These are all like on the computer. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And then we\u2019d get them prototyped in China. We\u2019d get them shipped back over to us for a very cheap cost. And if we like the design, we would keep it. If not, we\u2019d send it back. And after we got five disc designs that we liked, we went and bought what are called molds. So this was a capital-intensive project. Mold is basically a big, steel block. And then in the middle of the steel block is the shape of the disc. So think of it as like a Frisbee except it\u2019s a little more compact with a bevel rim. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So basically, the block is the middle, it\u2019s the shape of the disc. It fills up a top plastic. It cools off, opens up, the disc pops out. That\u2019s what a mold is. So we bought the molds. We bought five molds. It was a little over $12,000. We went half and half. I had been making a lot of money in college doing\u2014I think it was almost $400 every other week, I was doing the tutoring. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I was also doing alcohol sampling on the weekends. That does not sound as good as it actually was. It\u2019s not me tasting alcohol. It\u2019s me standing in the liquor store saying, hey, do you want to try this alcohol? And yeah, exactly. Not as glorious as it sounds. I was also doing side jobs. I was like raking, shoveling. I mean, I was just crazy about making money in college. So I had quite a stockpile.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I mean, the only expense was just a $12.00 handle of booze, right? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Exactly. I mean honestly, pretty much my only expense was eating out which was going to Applebee\u2019s once a month. So my expenses were less than $100.00 a month and I was bringing in probably $3000, maybe a little higher than $3000 a month. So I mean, my savings rate was pretty huge and so by the time we started the company, I probably had $15,000-$20,000 saved up. So I had the capital to build that mold.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"> But that\u2019s not where this story ends. I mean, there\u2019s a lot more, getting into marketing, advertising, getting the online store setup. Going through all the legality, like getting the design patents and all of that stuff. It\u2019s a big process when you\u2019re actually manufacturing a product from scratch. At the end of the day, when we got all the manufacturing done, developed the prototyping, it was about $35,000 down in the hole, I guess. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So this is split between me and my partner, so it was $17,500 each. We did take a small personal loan from a family\u2014unfortunately, with interest. I didn\u2019t want to just completely deplete my savings, so I had something left over but like in case my car broke down, you never know. I just like having a little bit of cash just sitting around. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So we did take a small family loan that we did pay back with interest unfortunately. But yeah, that was quite a capital-intensive project. I mean, we were really, really into it. I still am super into it but as of this point, we had probably done $25,000 in sales, so about $15,000 still in the red but I think probably this year, we\u2019ll break even. And then after that, we\u2019ll just be smooth sailing, fun, and profits. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Awesome. This is what I wish I would have done differently in college. I think I had a great time. I made some great friends. I got good grades, got a good job afterwards but there\u2019s no reason why I couldn\u2019t have found a little bit more time to try my hand at a couple of businesses like you did in college. There\u2019s no risk\u2014I mean, yours was a big risk. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Let\u2019s be clear. $35,000 invested in this business between two people that are college students, taking a little debt from the family. That\u2019s a big, big risk. But you know, the other things you tried were not that capital-intensive and didn\u2019t require that much money. And you can do that in college and fit that in with your schedule, even when you\u2019re working a couple of jobs, making $3,000 a month and I assume getting good grades and prepping yourself for the job market. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And this is what I think is a real power that is really being squandered by a lot of people that are in college, including myself when I was there. It was something that you could have done without too much impact on the college experience and whatever else you\u2019re trying to do to prepare yourself for the workforce. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>And I totally agree and people commend me like oh wow, you\u2019re awesome. You started a company. But if I could turn back time, I would have done it with a lot less capital. I don\u2019t know if you guys\u2014you guys definitely know Alan Donegan from the popup business school. After hearing him and talking to him, there\u2019s so many ways I could have done this for less money, but I didn\u2019t know. I mean, I was 19 at the time. I thought this is going to be the best thing ever. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I was definitely like financially savvy and frugal but I thought this was like an absolutely no-fail venture. I mean, luckily, I did have some failed ventures. I picked up a lot of skills during my failures. I know\u2014I think it was Jamila Souffrant that coined \u201cfailing forward\u201d. I really like that concept. I learned so much from my failures, just like setting up websites. So by the time I started this company, I was like, I kind of know what I\u2019m doing a little bit. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But I think if I could turn back time, I would have maybe looked for like an equity split with like one of the bigger companies and tried to manufacture just through them and be like, listen, we have an awesome new concept. Well like, you had 50% profit-share. As long as you give us the facility, you\u2019d let us like use your molds. Because you can make tweaks to it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">That\u2019s probably something I would have pursued now. Maybe it would have been a $2000-$3000 investment instead of $35,000 but like you said, Mindy, no turning back time. No regrets. I did learn\u2014I mean, the information I\u2019ve learned from starting that business is just like insane. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">It\u2019s so much more than I\u2019ve learned in college, just jumping into the real world and starting a real business. You learn so much and I really urge anyone who has like any inkling of starting anything to just start. And even if you fail miserably, you learn so much along the way. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yes. Yes. Yes. You mentioned Alan Donegan\u2019s episode\u2014I believe he was on Episode 17 and he just dropped so much knowledge on how to start a business super inexpensively. Like you said, you learn so much from doing it. BiggerPockets is generally a real estate website and people keep saying, how do I get started? How do I get started? Just start. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">You will learn so much more even if you lose money on your first deal. You will learn so much more than you can possibly learn from just reading books or listening to podcasts. I mean, those are very helpful to get you enough knowledge to get started. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But then jump in with both feet. See what happens. I mean, obviously don\u2019t jump in with both feet and take out a $50 million dollar loan that you can\u2019t ever pay back. But there\u2019s a lot of ways to start for a lot less money. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>There really is. It was mind-boggling when I was listening to it. I think I heard it on yours\u2014you guys\u2019 podcast. I listen to him on the Choose FI podcast. Just some of the stories that people have in starting businesses is like, wow. I never even thought of that. Like the person who opened a restaurant and a caf\u00e9 that closed at 4:00PM or something. I was like, that is the most genius idea ever.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Brilliant. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>People don\u2019t think outside the box. Myself included. I could have done it for way cheaper. I mean, luckily it\u2019s working out and it is successful and it could have failed miserably and we\u2019d just have to suck it up and pay back and eat our loss but there\u2019s just so many ways to do it better. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>All right, so let\u2019s move on to less a little bit here. So you graduated early from college in three and half semesters, right? Did you have a job lined up and kind of what\u2019s your plan kind of coming out of this trip to Australia that we started with?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Sure. So it was very\u2014I\u2019ll hop back a little bit to sophomore year. This is kind of where it all changed. Like I said, I got the FI bug. I really wanted to do investment banking because you can really make some insane money. You can make $125,000 easy, out of a four-year degree. That\u2019s just like unheard of money. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And I was like, that is the best thing ever. But I didn\u2019t know that you worked 90-100 hours a week and you didn\u2019t have Saturdays to hang out with your friends or your girlfriend or your family. You literally work 90-100 hours a week and I was like, that is not going for me. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Actually, after reading about passive income and all these other routes, I actually chose a less stressful job. I found a finance job that actually compensates for overtime, which is pretty rare in the finance space. It\u2019s pretty awesome. So definitely a better work-life balance. They actually respect you and don\u2019t treat you like a pawn. They treat you like a person. Which is also pretty abnormal in the finance space. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I know Scott, you worked for the worst company in America, I\u2019ve heard you say. So you know how it is to just be treated like absolute dirt. They don\u2019t care about you. You\u2019re just another pawn. So yeah, I worked a private equity gig after my sophomore year and I was just really high intensity. I kind of realized that I did not want to do that. And then, going into junior year, that\u2019s kind of where I found FI sophomore year. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Junior year, I\u2019ve got this better work-life internship. It was doing commercial real estate, so kind of BiggerPockets-esque. But at the end of the internship, they gave me the full-time offer for next year. So I had, going into senior year of college at the end of August, I had a full-time offer. So I knew I was set even before I planned like leaving for Australia. Which was huge. Like I don\u2019t have to look for a job. I\u2019m just kind of hanging out. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Awesome. What\u2019s kind of your plan now? You\u2019re going to start this job, I assume, in a couple of months, and begin your journey to FI? Is that correct?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>So yeah, I start two and a half weeks after I get back, so I get back from Australia June 26<\/span><span class=\"s3\"><sup>th<\/sup><\/span><span class=\"s1\"> and then I start working July 9<\/span><span class=\"s3\"><sup>th<\/sup><\/span><span class=\"s1\">. So disclaimer\u2014I\u2019m probably only going to work there for like a year. It is just so hard\u2014just being exposed to this community and listening to the absolutely incredible stories of people, branching out and just doing amazing things, <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I cannot sit at a desk from 9:00 to 5:00. I\u2019m really just going to go out there. I already have this disc golf business going. I really think that\u2019s going to start picking up soon\u2014we just moved to another manufacturing facility. So things are going awesome. It\u2019s just I really want to do stuff that I enjoy. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And a thing that I, I guess a beef I had with the Financial Independence community is work hard for 10-15 years as hard as you can, just making that much money as you possibly can, and if you\u2019re not enjoying life in those 15 years, I don\u2019t see the point. I\u2019m really about do what I want, when I want to do it, type of mindset. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So that\u2019s kind of what I\u2019m about. I really think I might only last like a year just to say I did it and just to say I didn\u2019t whimp out and then kind of go off and do my own entrepreneurial stuff. So that\u2019s my game plan. Long story short.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Awesome, yeah. I will warn you, I had kind of a similar mindset but then I discovered a job I really loved. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Exactly. It was totally different. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>That may be something that you\u2019ll find is that if you kind of approach life with this mindset where you\u2019re going through it, and hey, I\u2019m going to be able to do what I want. I\u2019m going to work towards FI. Well, options begin expanding very rapidly for you, very quickly within that first year. You\u2019re going to only tolerate a position that you love pretty soon thereafter, I would suspect. So I think you\u2019re going to have a lot of good options coming.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>I totally agree. Just from hearing what you guys say, BiggerPockets seem like an awesome place to work. And you guys have a blast and it\u2019s like fun in the office. But I mean, my office is pretty cool and my boss is a really awesome guy. It\u2019s just like, I don\u2019t love it, you know? I love doing the disc golf company. I love writing and teaching people about personal finance. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I like helping my family and friends set up their Vanguard accounts. That\u2019s cool to me. I kind of think that\u2019s like why I\u2019m going to branch out because I really want\u2014I really like having that sense of fulfillment and feeling like I\u2019m making an impact on the world. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But if you love your job, I mean, by all means just do it as long as you can. I just don\u2019t like the people who work 10-15 years in a job they loathe just to hit that FI number and then they expect themselves to magically be happy. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yeah, no you are not going to magically be happy if you are sitting there at a job that you absolutely hate.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Exactly.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Even if you do, you slug it out through this horrible job, you get to FI, your life doesn\u2019t automatically change. Like whatever you were doing before retirement is what you\u2019re going to be doing after retirement. So if you slug it out at work, you go home, and you watch TV or you read a book or you just go to bed, that\u2019s what you\u2019re going to do even more of after you hit FI. So you need to have a plan for financial independence not just be working towards it and then stop. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Exactly. I\u2019m totally in agreeance. You really need to retire to something or else you\u2019re going to be miserable once you hit FI.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yes. Unless you really like watching TV. There\u2019s not that many good shows. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>There\u2019s not that many good shows.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>All right. Now, it\u2019s time for the <i>Famous Four<\/i>. These are the same four questions that we ask every guest. There\u2019s actually five because we don\u2019t know how to count. The first question is, what is your favorite finance book?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>I\u2019m going to have to go with <i>The Four-Hour Work Week<\/i> just because that kind of jumpstarted my FI mindset and just the idea that you could make passive income and you didn\u2019t have to trade your time for your money. That was just a breakthrough moment in my FI journey. You don\u2019t have to trade your time for money. You can just set up these passive vehicles.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>That\u2019s a really powerful statement.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Yeah, that was definitely one of the most powerful ones for me as well. So if you haven\u2019t, go check it out. It\u2019s a stable, I think, of this mindset It goes along with <i>Rich Dad, Poor Dad<\/i> and all of these other books. Talk about how to accumulate wealth and separate your time from your money.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Definitely.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>All right, so what was your biggest money mistake that you\u2019ve made?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>So I kind of already covered this but it\u2019s definitely the car. If I can go back in time, I would have literally bought a $1500 beater that barely made it to school every day. And just invested the rest. I would have had like $30,000 by now.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I think it\u2019s great. We commonly hear this\u2014this is the opportunity cost that really kills people.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>It is, it is.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Actually the more I think about, it the drove a wedge into not taking more entrepreneurial shot maybe sooner. Maybe that way like Cody did with his disc golf company. That\u2019s one of the big advantages that you kind of have going into the world is you have an expectation of solid sales every year from this side hustle you have, right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>A few things\u2014just my age. Obviously, it\u2019s not a fact that everyone can use to their advantage so I have the freedom to fail. At this point, I\u2019m not used to eating fancy food. I\u2019m not used to drinking expense alcohol. I\u2019m using like a lifting like a college kid\u2014I shared a six-bedroom house of eight guys. Paying like $350 a month for rent. So I mean, I\u2019m not living this lavish lifestyle and it\u2019s hard on me for kind of maintain that styles. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Honestly, if all else, if I\u2019m on the road and don\u2019t have a job and living in a cardboard box, my mom would probably take me back in. So at this age, I just have the freedom to fail, which is huge. And if you can take advantage of that earlier, like you said, just jump into entrepreneur, just try your hand at whatever, you can get a huge headstart on the competition. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>That\u2019s great. I don\u2019t think it would come to a cardboard box for you. Hopefully not. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>I bet your mom would take you back. I hope so. Okay, so what is your best piece of advice for people who are just starting out. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Oh man, I wish I could rewind my sentences from the last answer. I think honestly for anybody at any age, I mean even if you\u2019re 60 years old and you have a few more years to retire, just start a side hustle. Start a side business. Anything. There are so many ways to make extra money nowadays with the internet and just online. You can learn so much. You can learn almost anything on YouTube and Google. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">If you don\u2019t know how to build a website, you can learn in 24 hours just by YouTube and Google. You can build yourself a decent website. So just jumping in and making the leap to\u2014not from a financial standpoint. Don\u2019t jump in with your 401K and make the leap. But jump in emotionally and don\u2019t be afraid to fail because you are going to learn mounds more from your failures than you are from your successes. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">From your successes, you\u2019re like, oh, this works. But from your failure, it\u2019s to learn what works and doesn\u2019t work and then you\u2019ll learn how to change that, how to make it better. You\u2019ll just become a better person over and over and over again as you fail. The failures can be tiny. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Like a little change today. You can make\u2014or just pick a step toward an entrepreneurial adventure today. And even if it doesn\u2019t work out, you\u2019re going to learn something along the way. That\u2019s my biggest advice. Just do it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I think that\u2019s great advice. Everyone can try something and if you\u2019re not sure where to start, go back and listen to the Alan Donegan podcast. I think that was Episode Number\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Alan was Episode 17 so you can find that at BiggerPockets.com\/MoneyShow17. And in two weeks, we have Nick Loper from Side Hustle Nation, will be our guest. And we\u2019re going to cover the concept of side hustles, who it\u2019s good for. Everybody. Spoiler Alert.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>And note that Cody\u2019s side hustle here is disc golf, something that he has been a part of since he was 10 years old. Right? In some capacity or another. Or maybe earlier, when you first started playing. And there\u2019s some synergy there that probably give you a little bit of an opportunity or incentive or desire to be successful. And there\u2019s particular ones. So I think that\u2019s something to point out, that you use a synergy that was unique to your situation.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Exactly. I think another point is that my synergies are different from my business partner, James\u2019, energies. Be careful with the engineer. So I\u2019m good at marketing and finance but I mean, I\u2019m terrible at engineering. But like, synergizing together we kind of are the perfect crew for a disc golf company. Because I can handle the finances. He doesn\u2019t know\u2014he would have no clue of what you said earlier. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I mean, sorry James. Sorry if you\u2019re listening but I mean, he wouldn\u2019t know exactly what to expect for profit margins, selling at wholesale prices, and like I kind of do know that background and I knew how to model and I knew how to tell if we were going to be profitable and just combining those and synthesizing our talents made us successful.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>You don\u2019t have to be the best at everything. If things that you aren\u2019t good at, just find somebody who is, and connect with them. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Exactly.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Love it. All right, so the toughest question if the <i>Famous Four<\/i> here and it sounds like you had plenty of opportunities to tell these but what is your favorite joke to tell at all those parties you\u2019ve been at?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>All right, Scott, so I think you will appreciate this one. So why can\u2019t you run through a campground. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I don\u2019t know. Why?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>You can only ran\u2014because it\u2019s past tents. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>That joke was in tents. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>That joke was awful. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Sorry, Mind, I know you don\u2019t like those but I had to give one for Scott.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>That\u2019s okay, this isn\u2019t just the Mindy Show. It\u2019s also the Scott Show.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Okay, Cody, where can people find out more about you?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>So on my blog, Fly to FI, I pretty much log about personal finance, lifestyle and life optimization. It\u2019s kind of learn as you go type-of-thing. So I\u2019m young. I can fail. Like I said before. So I kind of just try my had at different ventures. Different investment strategies. This side hustle and kind of just document my job here. So if people want to check me out, probably I\u2019ll reach back out to you within 24 hours. I\u2019m pretty good at responding. If you just hit up the contact form on FLY2FI.com.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>A quick plug is that I do have the Ultimate College Guide post on my sent\u2014that will cover pretty much anything that I missed or that people would like to hear about. I mean, we can only cover so much in the conversation on this podcast but it\u2019s a pretty extensive document just showing pretty much and every tip and trick I use, all the scholarship websites, all the internship tricks, all the LinkedIn tricks like a template, e-mail, just a bunch of helpful stuff. People want to show their kid or whatever, I think that would be an awesome resource.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>And I will put that in the Show Notes. The show notes for this episode can be found at <a href=\"http:\/\/www.BiggerPockets.com\/MoneyShow26\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span class=\"s4\">www.BiggerPockets.com\/MoneyShow26<\/span><\/a>. Awesome.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Awesome.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Well Cody, thank you so much for getting up at the crack of dawn to come talk to us.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>No problem. It\u2019s been a blast. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>All the way from halfway across the world.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>We really appreciate your time. Thank you so much. In the states in a couple of weeks?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Yeah, I\u2019ll see you guys at FinCon. That will be fun.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Oh, you\u2019ll be at FinCon, too? Fantastic. Then we\u2019ll see you in September.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>Awesome. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Have a good day. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Cody: <\/b>You, too.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>See you later. Thanks for coming. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Wow, Scott, mic dropped. I loved Cody. He is so forward thinking and is just an absolutely example of how to plan for your future and how small tweaks now\u2014or even some bigger tweaks can yield huge results down the road.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Yeah, I think it\u2019s a fantastic story. I mean, just a lot of good example in there. Cody is obviously not missing out on what you traditionally think of as a great college experience, great high school experience. I mean, excellence in a lot of different areas. It sounds like a lot of fun. He\u2019s going on a trip of a lifetime for six and a half months, seven months or so, right? Almost. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And then he\u2019s going to start a great job and he\u2019s got a bunch of different options here that he can pursue. A great mindset of hey, I\u2019m going to keep my expenses low and the see what happens. I just think it\u2019s going to be so excited to watch his career and the things that he goes on and does outside of college over the next couple of years. I\u2019m very excited to see that and follow his journey. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yeah, it\u2019s amazing\u2014what small changes now and a huge mindset shift, can just change your life without changing your life. I mean, he\u2019s not missing out on anything. Like you said, it doesn\u2019t change his life to drive a crappy car or live with a bunch of roommates. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Or you know, do all these things, but it changes his life down the road when he\u2019s able to retire when he is 24 or whatever ridiculous timeframe for himself. And he\u2019s going to do it, too. He is just said, I\u2019m going to do it. That\u2019s like written in stone. This is how it happens. It\u2019s like it just falls into place but it doesn\u2019t because he puts the hard work into it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Yeah, I mean 10 years is smart decisions before this that have gotten him to this point and that\u2019s where the options are kind of\u2014that\u2019s why the options are materializing for hi now. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Wow. Such a great show. So I hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. Scott, do you have anything else to add before we are out of here? This show ran really long because Cody just kept knocking it out. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Nope. Again, I think this was just a great show for you to listen to and then to think who this plot could apply for. Again, in high school, middle system that will make it hard for me thinking about how to start themselves up for a life of options. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>And then if you have little kids, think of how you can help them start learning about money, so learning about hard work, because throughout Cody\u2019s whole story, it was just\u2014hard work got me here. Hard work got me here where I could make connections with got me here. It\u2019s just over and over, thick I think a quiet room. And when he didn\u2019t do the hard work, he didn\u2019t have a success.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Smart hard work.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Smart hard work will get you every time. Okay. From Episode 26 of the BiggerPockets Money podcast, this is Mindy Jensen. Over and out. <\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<h2>Watch the Podcast Here<\/h2>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Graduating College on Track for Financial Independence with Cody Berman | BP Money 26\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/hTqXSP1_RaA?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h2>Help Us Out!<\/h2>\n<p>Help us reach new listeners on <a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/biggerpockets-money-podcast\/id1330225136\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">iTunes<\/a> by leaving us a rating and review! It takes just 30 seconds.\u00a0Thanks! We really appreciate it!<\/p>\n<h2>Podcast Sponsor<\/h2>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-medium wp-image-100125\" src=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/06\/Harvest-Returns-Logo-300x95.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"95\" title=\"\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/06\/Harvest-Returns-Logo-300x95.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/06\/Harvest-Returns-Logo-768x243.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/06\/Harvest-Returns-Logo-1024x325.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/06\/Harvest-Returns-Logo.jpg 1931w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/>Did you know farming can make a great addition to your investment portfolio? Investments in sustainable and organic farms offer competitive returns. In a time of financial uncertainty and persistently low interest rates, passive investments in income-producing farms and ranches provide safe portfolio diversification and offer a hedge against stock market corrections. Harvest Returns allows you to access the same type of private farm investments that pension funds and wealthy land-owners do with as little as five thousand dollars.<\/p>\n<p>Visit <a href=\"https:\/\/www.harvestreturns.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Harvest Return<\/a>s\u00a0to learn more about how to grow your wealth with agriculture.<\/p>\n<h2>In This Episode We Cover:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>How Cody ended up in <strong>Australia<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>How he learned about <strong>compound interest<\/strong> from his dad<\/li>\n<li>His strategy of working on the side, allowing him to save about <strong>$15k by age 14<\/strong><\/li>\n<li><strong>Buying a car<\/strong> in high school out of his savings<\/li>\n<li>The <strong>entitlement<\/strong> mindset<\/li>\n<li>The <strong>AP courses<\/strong> he took during high school<\/li>\n<li><strong>State vs. private<\/strong> universities<\/li>\n<li><strong>Reaching out<\/strong> two to three people a day<\/li>\n<li>Having a minimum fixed <strong>income fund<\/strong><\/li>\n<li><strong>&#8220;Template-fying&#8221;<\/strong> everything<\/li>\n<li><strong>Extracurricular activities<\/strong> Cody is a part of<\/li>\n<li>Finding <strong>jobs during college<\/strong><\/li>\n<li><strong>Businesses<\/strong> that failed and succeeded<\/li>\n<li>How <strong>self-education<\/strong> helped him<\/li>\n<li><strong>And SO much more!<\/strong><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Links from the Show<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/forums\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Forums<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"\/renewsblog\/biggerpockets-money-podcast-22pay-6-figure-student-loans-pursuing-financial-independence-travis-hornsby\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Money Podcast 22: How to Pay Off 6-Figure Student Loans While Pursuing Financial Independence with Travis Hornsby<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">LinkedIn<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.popupbusinessschool.co.uk\/team.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Pop Up Business School<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"\/renewsblog\/biggerpockets-money-podcast-17-building-lean-business-with-almost-no-capital-with-alan-donegan\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Money Podcast 17: Building a Lean Business With (Almost) No Capital with Alan Donegan<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/myscholly.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Scholly<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/scholarship.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Scholarship.com<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"\/renewsblog\/biggerpockets-money-podcast-25-raising-a-family-seeking-financial-freedom-with-chris-and-edbbie-emick\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Money Podcast 25: Raising a Family While Seeking Financial Freedom with Chris and Debbie Emick<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.sidehustlenation.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Side Hustle Nation<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/finconexpo.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">FinCon<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Books Mentioned in this Show<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/2MQuTVi\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>The 4-Hour Workweek<\/em><\/a> by Timothy Ferriss<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/richdadpoordad\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>Rich Dad Poor Dad<\/em><\/a> by Robert Kiyosaki<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Tweetable Topics:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>&#8220;You don&#8217;t have to trade time for money.&#8221;\u00a0(<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22You%20don&#039;t%20have%20to%20trade%20time%20for%20money.%22%20BP%20Money%20Podcast%2026%20biggerpockets.com\/moneyshow26%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Connect with Cody<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/flytofi.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Cody&#8217;s Website<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/flytofi.com\/the-ultimate-college-guide\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">The Ultimate College Guide<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Today, Cody runs a company that manufactures disc golf discs and has afforded himself the freedom to travel with his girlfriend. With an ultimate strategy for complete financial independence in the works, he plans to reach a point where he is able to spend time as he wishes.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":353007,"featured_media":100130,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[6473],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-100104","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-biggerpocketsmoney"],"acf":[],"comment_count":0,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/100104","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/353007"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=100104"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/100104\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/100130"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=100104"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=100104"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=100104"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}