{"id":102469,"date":"2018-09-24T00:02:26","date_gmt":"2018-09-24T06:02:26","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/renewsblog\/?p=102469"},"modified":"2023-04-26T05:38:38","modified_gmt":"2023-04-26T11:38:38","slug":"biggerpockets-money-podcast-39-from-bad-with-money-to-intentional-saving-and-spending-with-jamila-souffrant","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/biggerpockets-money-podcast-39-from-bad-with-money-to-intentional-saving-and-spending-with-jamila-souffrant","title":{"rendered":"From \u201cBad with Money\u201d to Intentional Saving and Spending with Jamila Souffrant"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><strong>Jamila Souffrant<\/strong> grew up watching her mom struggle to provide for her. She decided early on that she wanted to be a millionaire, her solution to not having enough was to simply make a lot of money. She saved like crazy, but didn\u2019t have a plan for it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">A good student, she attended college and got into an internship program that places minority students with Fortune 500 companies and pays them well. During college, she saved 80-90% of her salary &#8211; but was still considered herself \u201cbad with money,\u201d buying luxury items she doesn\u2019t remember. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Internship led to employment, and Jamila changed her focus from IT to the real estate department. But her finances stayed the same. She contributed to her 401(k), but not even enough to get the full company match in her 20s. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The switch flipped in her 30s, after an exceptionally bad commute home. She discovered FI through podcasts and blogs, and finally understood this could be her reality, too. Jamila and her husband kicked their savings into high gear and started investing. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Jamila went from \u201cbad with money\u201d to saving $169,000 in two years! This episode shows it\u2019s not too late to start your Financial Freedom journey, too.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/biggerpockets-money-podcast\/id1330225136\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Click here<\/a>\u00a0to listen on iTunes.<\/p>\n<h2>Listen to the Podcast Here<\/h2>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https:\/\/playlist.megaphone.fm?e=BIGPOC9123621552&#038;light=false\" width=\"100%\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h2>Read the Transcript Here<\/h2>\n<div style=\"overflow-y: scroll; max-height: 400px; background: #eee; padding: 20px; border: 1px solid #ddd;\">\n<p>\u00a0<b>Scott: <\/b>Welcome to BiggerPockets Money Podcast Show number 39 where we interview Jamila Souffrant from journeytolaunch.com.<\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila<\/b>: I\u2019m willing to take that risk at the moment because I figured that life is too short and my priorities right now are my family and then just being happy in the moment doing the things that I love. We\u2019ve changed our investing and saving strategy over the past year to accommodate this big change.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>It\u2019s time for a new American dream. One that doesn\u2019t involve working in a cubicle for 40 years barely scraping by. Whether you\u2019re looking to get your financial house in order, invest the money you already have or discover new paths for wealth creation. You\u2019re in the right place. This show is for anyone who have money or want more. This is the BiggerPockets Money Podcast.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>How is it going everybody? This is Scott Trench, host of the BiggerPockets Money Podcast. Here with my co-host Miss Mindy Jensen. How are you doing today, Mindy?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Scott, I am doing fantastic. How are you today?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I am doing great. I am very excited for the interview with Jamila. I thought it was fantastic. I mean, what a great persona she\u2019s got. What a great story. Look at the power that financial freedom, her journey to financial freedom, has given her already just two years in. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>It\u2019s fantastic. I can\u2019t believe how easy it was for her. How easy might not be the right word because she did still have to have the conversation and do the work. It\u2019s not just going to happen by itself. You really have to do the work.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I love her story and how she was able to just switch the gears by thinking about what she wants her life to look like. What does she want her life to look like now? What does she want her life to look like down the road? Doing the math, one thing that keeps coming up over and over again is people say \u201cWell, I want to go on this journey. How can I make it happen?\u201d And they do some math and they\u2019re like, \u201cOh my goodness. Look, it\u2019s actually not that hard.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Yes. This show is really good for you if you\u2019re thinking about \u201cHey, I-\u201c We\u2019re in a reasonable financial position right now. We have a good career.\u201d She had a good career when she started this journey. Things were going well. There was some good income. But, there wasn\u2019t much optimization on the road to financial dependence. When she really took the reins, and had the discussion with her husband and got a family on track for a more aggressive pursuit of, I-<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">The changes are just drastic. She mentioned many times throughout the show she\u2019s still living the good life now and she\u2019s going to have \u2013 still have \u2013 able to eat her cake in a few years.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yes, no. I like her story because she isn\u2019t depriving herself of anything. As she says, in a few minutes, \u201cWe cut out the things that we didn\u2019t care about anyway.\u201dNot everything that you\u2019re spending money on means anything to you. You might really like great coffee and it isn\u2019t worth it to you to cut out great coffee. Or maybe you really like having a nice car and it isn\u2019t worth it to you to cut out having a nice car. So then don\u2019t. Do what makes you happy. Live a good life now so you can live a great life down the road. Okay.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Let\u2019s bring Jamila in.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Before we do that, let\u2019s hear from today\u2019s sponsors. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>Great hire can make a huge impact on your business. That\u2019s why it\u2019s so important to find the right person. But where do you find that individual? You could try posting on the job boards. But can you really be sure the right person sees your job? Instead, find the right person who will help you rear your business with LinkedIn. For this small business owner who is looking to expand their business in pursuit of financial independence, hiring can be a daunting task. Thankfully, LinkedIn is here to help you and get you on the path to FI. That\u2019s why you should use LinkedIn to find your next hire, grow your business and hit that FI number.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>Most LinkedIn members have not frequently visited job boards but 9 out of 10 members are open to new opportunities. That\u2019s why a new hire is made every ten seconds using LinkedIn. BiggerPockets even uses LinkedIn as part of our hiring strategy. Hurry to linkedin.com\/bp and get $50 off your first job post. That\u2019s linkedin.com\/bp to get $50 off that first job post- linkedin.com\/bp. Terms and conditions apply.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>Protect your real estate investment with the SimpliSafe Home Security System. It\u2019s a great protection against burglars, secures your property 24\/7, keeps working during power outages and down WiFi and lets the authorities know if there\u2019s an emergency. But that\u2019s just the start.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>What about basement floods, frozen pipes, leaky carbon monoxide-releasing furnaces, real threats to your investment and your safety? SimpliSafe looks out for them too. It\u2019s a complete security system. See how SimpliSafe\u2019s 24\/7 security can protect your property at simplisafe.com\/biggerpockets. That\u2019s s-i-m-p-l-i-s-a-f-e.com\/biggerpockets. Simplisafe.com.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Alright. Big thanks to today\u2019s sponsor. Let\u2019s bring in Jamila. Jamila, welcome to the BiggerPockets Money Podcast. How\u2019s it going today?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila: <\/b>Hey guys. Thanks so much for having me on.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Thank you for taking time out of your day to talk to us.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Yes, so let\u2019s go jump right into it. What was your kind of experience growing up with money? Or what do you consider the start of your financial journey?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila: <\/b>I\u2019d take my start with money was really just from being a child watching my single mom work really hard to provide for me. It\u2019s funny because there was never an intentional conversation about money in my household growing up. My mom had me at 20 years old. She came here from Jamaica. Immigrated here and actually had to leave me behind as a child in Jamaica before she could bring me over. At the\u2026 herself, work and bring me at least into something where she could provide for me.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Even from that age \u2013 I don\u2019t have specific memory at 2 years old from that \u2013 but watching her growing up working minimum wage jobs, going to school, trying to provide for me really taught me the value of money from a very early age because I saw how much she had to work to provide for me. That really just instilled this really good work ethic where I knew that if I wanted to more out of life, if I wanted to be able to provide and take care of her one day, take care of my other family members, or just when I have<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>family of my own, be able to take care of them, that I needed to be smart with how I earned money.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So growing up, my solution to that was I wanted to be a millionaire. That was my only goal.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>I wanted to just make a lot of money. That was how I thought I would be able to alleviate this issue of not having enough. It was just to make more. My goal, even just from young, was I wanted to be rich. That was my goal.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">My money story really starts from being young, seeing my mom work hard and then having this drive to want to at least make money.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>How did you pursue that goal in high school and college? I guess.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila: <\/b>I got my first job at 14 years old and I\u2019ve been working ever since. So working now, from 14 , 15, just throughout my high school years and then college was really important because I was able to now save money. I always say that, for me, again the goal was just to make money.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">It wasn\u2019t actually about like managing it the best way. I save but I wasn\u2019t thinking of saving it in investment accounts at 14 or 17. It was just, \u201cOh, I\u2019m saving money.\u201d At least I had that work ethic to help me work. Then when I got to college, what really was really a good starter for me was that I got into a really good internship program. So the Inroads internship programs that I did, it places minority students into Fortune 500 companies and you get paid a good salary. My freshmen year that summer, from freshmen to sophomore year, I got my first internship.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I was making good money for being a college student. I remember I just started working and saving almost 80-90% of what I was earning at that time throughout college. I had that internship for my three years and that\u2019s the same company that sponsored me and then offered me a full time position. Just that gave me a good head start on having money like coming out of college now. I had a good amount of savings to do things with.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> So you get this really good internship. What company was this at and what college were you going to, by the way?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila: <\/b>I went to Adelphi University. I went to Adelphi University on Long Island and then when I was interning, I was interning in an insurance company that had an investment to it. I knew I wanted to, again make as much money as I could. My major was business management with a specialization in finance. I was working in the IT section of that whole company and I knew that I didn\u2019t want to be in the IT section. I said \u201cThat\u2019s not where the money is. I want to be in investments, particularly real estate investments\u201d so I finangled my way into changing my internship into changing my internship from the IT section of the company to the real estate investment section and so I started to then intern in real estate and other positions in the investments department.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">When I got hired fulltime, I got hired into the portfolio management section of the company and then I worked my way back into real estate.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay. I have a thing really quickly. You just said your major was Business Management with a specialization in finance. We\u2019ve talked a little bit about your story just to prepare for this show and you weren\u2019t always so good with money in the beginning. I think that\u2019s really interesting to point out that you studied finance but it still- you have to really pay attention to your finances. I studied Fashion Design in college and it\u2019s not really all that great of a career, it\u2019s not a lucrative career. I\u2019m certainly not doing it now but I didn\u2019t study finance and I wasn\u2019t good with money for a while. I was always just really cheap. I wasn\u2019t necessarily saving it and doing a really awesome job until later.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I think it\u2019s really interesting that you studied finance and yet your mind wasn\u2019t on it. When your mind\u2019s not on something, you\u2019re not really going to do anything about it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila: <\/b>I think that\u2019s a really good and interesting question to like to put the question around finances. I think there\u2019s a disconnect with wanting to make a lot of money and earn a lot of money but then not realizing how it really is that you build well. I\u2019d say that- when I say that I wasn\u2019t necessarily good with money, someone could hear that and say \u201cYou seem to \u2013 you saved a lot. You say you saved 80, 90% of your income and I did buy my first property at 22 which is now an investment property\u201d So if you hear that you say \u201cWait, how are you not good at money at that stage?\u201d but when I look back at it, I say I wasn\u2019t good because I wasn\u2019t intentional about the way in which I saved or invested my money.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">For me I thought it was just good enough to save money and just have cash sitting around to be able to do something with. Even when I graduated and I worked fulltime, I was contributing- I don\u2019t even think I was contributing up to the company match<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>for a couple years and then I finally made it to do at least the company match. Looking back now, I think of all the lost opportunities and where I could have invested and maxed out my 401k while I was in my twenties. I bought more luxury items in my 20\u2019s that I would never buy now.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I was never intentional in ways in which I could use the money I was getting and then build the wealth that I wanted to amass. Since finding out about financial independence, there are again so many things I would have did differently in my twenties. So when I say I wasn\u2019t good, it was because I wasn\u2019t intentional. I didn\u2019t understand that there was a way to really build well by investing and saving but not just saving in a cash account but investing it into other things.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> I can relate to this. I find really \u2013 I studied finance in college as well. What I noticed about a lot of the finance folks in college and then you get these internships at a big Fortune 500 company is a little bit of relentlessness, like ambition and relentlessness to go and be as efficient as possible with their work and careers in the pursuit of earning money. But what\u2019s very noticeably absent from that is the same relentlessness- the same passion or intrigue in managing your own wealth. It\u2019s a weird disconnect where I\u2019ve worked in the past with really successful graduates of top business schools in the finance world who don\u2019t seem to have some basic understanding of personal finance.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Yet, they\u2019re willing and able to optimize really big business finances. Have you<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>noticed the same thing maybe with your experiences at all?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> Oh I\u2019ve totally seen that. The smartest people that I\u2019ve worked with and that I\u2019ve met along the way that earn tons of money, personally, they\u2019re not optimizing or making that money then now work for them. It\u2019s almost like that lifestyle inflation where you almost thing that you\u2019ve made it because of your income. Your income shows that you\u2019ve made it because maybe you\u2019re earning six-figures, you\u2019re doing really well, you have a nice house, you have a nice car, and that maybe signifies to them that they\u2019re okay but then when you really dig down, when you get into this rabbit hole of financial independence and what it all means, you realize that that doesn\u2019t really mean much.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">It means something, but it doesn\u2019t mean much especially when your expenses are high, when you have to depend on this pay check to live. I quickly realized because I\u2019ve always had this goal that I didn\u2019t want to work for anyone after 30 years old. I always had this goal in my mind and I thought the only way I can do that \u2013 yes very ambitious. So when I graduated at 22, I looked around at all colleagues and co-workers and I was like \u201cWell, I\u2019m not going be here in like 8 years\u201d but the reason why I said that, I thought that was because I was going to create a company. The only way I thought I would be able to accomplish that goal of not working for anyone was that I had to create some kind of big company, I had to somehow do something big. I tried a couple of things and they never really panned out. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Other than that, I had no clue that there was a way in which you could save and invest to create a life in which you didn\u2019t have to actively work for someone else. When I found that out, I was like \u201cOh my gosh, this is exactly what I was looking for this whole time but I didn\u2019t know about it.\u201d I didn\u2019t find out about until my early thirties and that\u2019s when I started to really change the way I invested and saved.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay so, this is interesting to me. You studied finance and you still didn\u2019t know how to invest. I\u2019m not dogging on you. I\u2019m not saying that you\u2019re a bad person but I\u2019m just making a point. You didn\u2019t know and you studied it. How do people who have no idea- how are they ever going to figure it out if they don\u2019t learn it. This is why we need to teach it in school. This is why parents need to teach it but again, if your parents don\u2019t know, they can\u2019t teach you. I\u2019m not teaching brain surgery to my kids because I don\u2019t know how to do it but I do know finance. I just think that\u2019s really interesting that it took a while for you to figure it out too and that\u2019s awesome that you did.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">How did you discover that investing is the way to go? Did somebody talk to you about this or did you just figure it out?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> For me, it came to a point where I was 31 and I was pregnant and I have a long commute so, or I had a long commute. My commute was about an hour and a half each way which is crazy, right? I used to be driving that far for work and I was pregnant. At that point, so at 31 now- I\u2019m a year past my whole end date, I\u2019m not working for anyone else, so at this point I\u2019m like \u201cOkay, I guess I am, I haven\u2019t figured anything out. I guess this is my life. What\u2019s so bad about it? Everyone around me seems okay to be working and maybe not 100% happy with what they were doing. Who am I to want this bigger goal?\u201d You know? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So at 31 I had this really bad commute and I was pregnant. It took me four hours to get home. It was obviously not a normal day. It was just that all the traffic gods just they were not happy that day and it was traffic everywhere. So I was in traffic and I had this breakdown almost just like this turning point in which I said \u201cNo way. There\u2019s no way I can do this for the rest of my life.\u201d It wasn\u2019t just the commute because I could\u2019ve found a commute or a job that was closer to where I lived. It was more of this idea that I pushed away and forgot about: this freedom, this wanting to do things that I loved and not to have work in something that wasn\u2019t fully \u2013 I was fulfilled in that allowed me to say \u201cWait a second. There\u2019s something missing. I have to find something. There has to be another way.\u201d <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">It took me while but I started to research and Google and I found a bunch of blogs and podcasts. That\u2019s how typically people find out about the financial independence movement. I think I found the Mad Fientist first which lead me down to the rabbit hole. Where I find -I found Mr. Money Moustache- and all these amazing blogs talking about people who were doing \u2013 retiring early or reaching financial independence on regular incomes. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">They weren\u2019t born into money. They necessarily weren\u2019t even making six figures- some of them- but they were saving-investing and I saw that there were people doing this. I think sometimes it\u2019s all you need to see is that it\u2019s possible that there\u2019s someone like you doing something. It really just made me \u201cWow, if they can figure this out, so can I\u201d. That\u2019s what lead me to get excited and figure out how I can do it myself.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Okay. So that\u2019s the point<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>at which you discovered this concept \u2013and I\u2019m assuming that some changes are to follow this with how you\u2019re spending and investing your money. Before we get to that, can we briefly cover what happened in your twenties? It sounds like you graduated college with this finance degree, you get a job and you\u2019re earning solid money and your career advances over this period of time. Is that accurate?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila: <\/b>That is accurate.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Awesome. What are you largely doing with the funds that you\u2019re accumulating or saving from this career?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> Right. So I\u2019d say that the one good thing that I did in my twenties was when I did graduate from school I had the foresight to buy a condo which was a very good investment because when I bought it was preconstruction in a neighbourhood that wasn\u2019t really-it was good but it wasn\u2019t that great. Now that same neighbourhood it\u2019s DUMBO. It stands for Down Under the Manhattan Bridge Overpass. It\u2019s one of the most expensive places to own real estate in Brooklyn or in New York City now. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I bought that apartment really because I couldn\u2019t afford anything else. It was a studio apartment and it was relatively- when I looked at the brown stones and the three-family homes that I really wanted to buy- it was something that I could almost afford. I went into contract for that and if they would have did an all document check on when I got the mortgage, they wouldn\u2019t have given me the mortgage because my income was barely covering the mortgage, actually. It was a really huge risk but it was my best investment decision.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I would say that\u2019s the best thing I did but after that I really just then worked on living life. I fell into the trap too: I bought a luxury car. I thought I made it: I bought a condo and I had no kids. I was single at the time, I had my boyfriend who is now my husband but we didn\u2019t really have much responsibilities. I bought a luxury car \u2013 which was crazy because I driving that car on my long commute putting premium gas in it and kind of just spending money. I didn\u2019t really- I didn\u2019t buy a lot of crazy things from day-to-day but I bought some expensive purses and definitely took some trips and vacations. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I managed to not go into too much debt so I only had my student loan debt and I was okay for the most part there but when it came to maxing out my 401k, I was not doing that. I was doing the bare minimum just to get the company match. I wasn\u2019t doing Roth IRA contributions. I was doing just a small amount of investing- not much. It wasn\u2019t intentional and I was usually just living and spending the rest of my money in my twenties.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> And this is not a ridiculous pattern of behavior for folks that are in New York, right? I\u2019m assuming that many of your friends locally were doing pretty similar things?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> Right. So when I looked across the aisle- when I looked to my left and right, I was doing really well compared to my friends: I owned the property, I had a nice car and I had a good job. I thought that maybe that would be enough especially because my thought process at the time was I didn\u2019t understand how it was that I could become a millionaire or not work after 30. Since none of the businesses that I thought of were working, so I thought to myself: \u201cMaybe this isn\u2019t such a bad life\u201d but deep down I knew that there was something missing and that\u2019s all that came to a head in my early thirties when I realized that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>One more quick question about this period in your life before we move on to the next one is it seems to me that the focus during this period- the leverage point in your finances that you were applying very vigorously was your career, is that correct? Can you give us a little highlight? Were you ale to advance in that career? What did that look like? What did you do that you think enabled you to have a successful career during this period of time?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> Yes. Sure. When I graduated from school- from undergrad. I started out, I was making $55,000 in New York City which was a number of years ago. It wasn\u2019t \u2013 it was okay, it was good. Since then I went back to school while I was working. I got my masters in Real Estate from NYU so that helped in terms of putting me up and setting me up for better positions at my career. I also got the annual raises so the inflation- that standard raise you get every year for working somewhere and then bonuses. That was really- that helped a lot. Working in corporate America- in a company, a Fortune 500 company that was doing really well- I was able to get the bonuses which I was then able to \u2013 at the time in my twenties- apply to more things like maybe buying a car or not intentionally saving for things. Now, I will say that- again, I saved money but it wasn\u2019t intentional. I was able to do some things but if I could go back now, I would totally do it differently.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">In general, I think for the most part it was just working really hard on my career, getting those annual raises, and then the bonuses really helped. Staying in my company from 22 to now 35, you can imagine just the natural course of things: I started to make more money and I raised my income a lot.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>So now you\u2019re in your thirties, you discovered FI after a four hour commute home one day and I used to live in Chicago, I\u2019m sorry, I used to work in Chicago and live in the farthest city west of Chicago that\u2019s still considered a suburb of Chicago. I\u2019ve had that four-hour commute when it snows and you\u2019re just like \u201cReally? I could walk home faster. This is the worst thing ever.\u201d After you discovered FI, what was your first move? We\u2019ve talked to a lot of people on this show who say the same thing you do. They call it a rabbit hole, they start cutting every expense and saving every dime and<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>\u201cOh we\u2019re never going to spend another dollar on anything ever\u201d.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">How did your journey to financial independence start and how did that look?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> It started with where I discovered this and I was like \u201cWhere has this been all my life?\u201d. I was married at that time too and immediately after even that commute home that gave me that realization that something was missing, I didn\u2019t like immediately jump into FI. I think it took another actual year to find out more about it. I started to read more about personal finance and things but it really took maybe another year or so to for me to really get into deep down into like \u201cWait a second, I can do this\u201d.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Because I was married, it was definitely going to be a different type of transition. My husband, while I found this epiphany and had all these amazing thoughts about it, he had no clue. We were living a good life. We had just bought our home that we live in now. I think I was pregnant again with my second child or I had just gave birth- I\u2019m not sure the time frame. He was just like \u201cWhat are you talking about?\u201d. I would send him some articles. I remember sending him a Mr. Money Moustache article and a podcast and he was like \u201cOkay, what are you trying to get at?\u201d because some of the articles were talking about people saving half of their income and living very frugally.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Again, living in New York City, coming from a lifestyle where we were able to go out without thinking about it, we didn\u2019t have a budget necessarily, we just went out when we wanted to, we spend when we wanted. Now I\u2019m coming home and saying \u201cHey. I found about this thing called FI and there are people who are able to retire in 10 or 15 years or less depending on how aggressively they save. What do you think about this?\u201d At first he was just like \u201cWhat is going on?\u201d so it took some talking. I came home and I said to him \u201cHey, what would you think? What would you want our lifestyle to be like in 15, 20 years? What do you envision for us? How can you be happy in the future and then how can we be happy today?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">That and a lot of other conversations and some spreadsheets- so I also had some spreadsheets with some projections on. \u201cHey, if we save this much, we can have this much money in 15 years. How does that sound while still living a good life today?\u201d That slowly got him thinking and on board and what really helped is because he\u2019s a teacher. My husband\u2019s a high school teacher. He teaches Phys. Ed and Health and because he\u2019s this teacher he has access to two pre-tax retirement accounts.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I didn\u2019t know that this was possible but when I found out that he had access to two and then I had access to one, so he can contribute and max out a 457 plan and his 43b plan. Hearing or finding out about that really made me believe like \u201cWow if we can max all of this out- so his two pre-tax retirements accounts and my pre-tax plus my raw- even if we do nothing else, that would be amazing\u201d. I think talking through that with him was the first step getting him on-board and really what changed everything was being able to max all of those out and just budget and live off all the rest. That was really helpful.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> For all of listeners, people aren\u2019t going to know some of the terms you just threw out there? Can you describe a 457 and a 403b?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila: <\/b>Sure. A 403b plan is a non-profit or if you work in a non-profit sector or public sector, it\u2019s like a 401k. It\u2019s just a 403b, it\u2019s called that for teachers. The 457 plan is available to most government or official workers- city or state workers you probably have access to one. The cool thing about it is if you are in that position, you get to contribute to not only to your 403b but to your 457. Someone like myself who just works for corporate America, my company has a 401k plan. That\u2019s all I can contribute to when it comes to pre-tax money but if you happen to be a teacher or some other professions, maybe a firefighter or even a police officer, it\u2019s quite possible that you have access now to your organization, company, sponsored plans, whatever plan they offer you plus your state or city sponsored plan which should be like a 457 and you can max both of those out.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Again, I didn\u2019t know that was possible until I heard it on another podcast of someone doing that and I said to myself \u201cHold on, why isn\u2019t this talked about more? This is such a great opportunity for people who want to save more money and to even just fast forward or fast track their path\u201d. Just doing or hearing about that allowed me to then say \u201cHey, how can we max all this out in our funds and do that\u201d.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay. I like to consider myself fairly financially savvy, I\u2019ve never heard of a 457 plan but I\u2019m also not a city or state worker so it would never have come up in my life and my husband worked for the government but he was a contractor so that didn\u2019t count. What is the contribution limit for a 457?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila: <\/b>It\u2019s the same as you r 401k. So now it\u2019s 18,500.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay. You and your husband can put in 18,500 into his state 457 plan, or his city, and you can also put in- what\u2019s the 403b amount? Is that also eighteen five?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila: <\/b>Yes. That\u2019s eighteen-five too.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> So he\u2019s got eighteen-five and eighteen-five and you\u2019ve got eighteen-five in your own 401k.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> and the company match. Yes all that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> You can sack away sixty-ish thousand dollars just from these three things all pre-tax.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Wow<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila: <\/b>Right and I say all teachers, at least a minimum. I can\u2019t speak to all professions but I do know that mostly all teachers no matter what state you\u2019re in have some sort of access to a 457 plan in addition to their teacher plan too.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay, my sister\u2019s a teacher and she\u2019s never told me about this. Admittedly, I love her dearly but she\u2019s not all that conscious of this either and she\u2019s just starting to ask me if I know anything about investing- I might. I\u2019m going to see if she\u2019s got this now too. This is awesome. If you are a state or city worker and looking for more ways to save for retirement, ask if a 457 plan is an option.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila: <\/b>Here\u2019s the other thing, here\u2019s why the 457 plan is amazing for people in the FIRE movement: if you terminate your work of employment, if you stop being a teacher, you quit or change into another profession, the 457 money- the money that you contribute- you can actually take out without penalty if you sever employment ties. Typically, if you are on this path, a lot of people if they\u2019re able to contribute to a 457, you\u2019ll be able to access that money without the additional money without the additional penalty for accessing if you sever employment ties.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">For example, my husband wanted to retire early at 45 or 40 or whatever age before his standard retirement date. He\u2019d be able to access that money from his 457 plan without that penalty.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Oh wow.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Yes. This is an amazing tidbit and some really good information that I did not know prior to this call here that you could do both of these things and really defer that much taxes. It seems like the obvious problem for most public- many of these public sector place- particularly teachers is that it\u2019s going to be hard to generate enough income so you can then put all of that into these plans but if you have a dual income household, or if you have some other streams that you\u2019re developing on the side, this is how you can really use some of these benefits to accelerate your path towards FI. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Something that makes the stakes even higher for figuring out how to generate that excess income so you can take advantage of these plans fully the way you guys are.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> That is such good point because one of the reasons why- when I did a little bit of research on 457\u2019s and the reason why they allowed teachers and other employment people like city or a state worker to do that is to help incentivize them, to give them more ways to save because for them giving such, their time and a lot of these professions don\u2019t pay all that well. You can substitute your income.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">My husband, for example, while he\u2019s a Phys. Ed teacher, so you think \u201cOkay, that\u2019s not much money\u201d, he does have his master\u2019s degree in education. That helps him to make then the most at his teacher salary level and he\u2019s able to coach. He does a lot of coaching gigs which also supplement his income. He does morning school, he\u2019ll do summer school so he does a lot of things to help increase his income. You\u2019re right, for some people saving that much money- if you\u2019re trying to max out a 401k for your 43b and a 457 plan but your income is not high, you\u2019re not going to able to do that and live off of the rest but if you have a spouse where they bring in good money or maybe if you live in a really cost of area place and you\u2019re very particular about how you spend money, so maybe you\u2019re really frugal- you can possibly do it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">The reason why I found out about this is The Millionaire Educator. I heard about him on a podcast. He and his wife were both teachers and they both were maxing out every available pre-tax retirement account. I remember his story really well, he never really earned over six figures and he was able to do that but he lived really frugally too. I think there are ways in which you can figure out if something like that works and sometimes say \u201cMaybe, the 457 plan has better options for investment\u201d so you want to invest their first or its your 43b plan if you have the both available to you. If it is, I would just research to see if it\u2019s something that is available so you can start really taking control back and realizing \u201cOkay, what investment options do I really have available and what can I do?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay. We\u2019ve talked about maxing it out but even just put like every dollar you put in there is a dollar for your future. You don\u2019t have to max it out if you can contribute at some point. It\u2019s not like an all-or-nothing thing. I think that point is not made enough on these shows is that you don\u2019t have to max it out. You can put whatever you can into it and then- sometimes it\u2019s easier to max it out then others sometimes it\u2019s easier to contribute than others. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Sometimes you just can\u2019t contribute at all but anything you can contribute reduces your taxable income now so you\u2019re paying less taxes to the government. I\u2019m assuming that the 457 and 403b are just like the 401k in that it\u2019s taken out before you are taxed. It\u2019s pre-tax investments.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> Correct. Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay. Okay. Just want to make sure that I\u2019m not giving out false information. It\u2019s a two-fold benefit: you\u2019re reducing your taxes now and you\u2019re saving for the future.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> Right.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Going back to the story here, you discover FI, for a period of a year you begin putting all these spreadsheets together, you convince you husband to go along with this- or I guess you come to general consensus, we didn\u2019t talk about that process but we usually- Let\u2019s hear about that. What was the conversation like with your husband and how did you arrive at deciding to go down that path?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> I think it\u2019s really interesting because even now that my husband\u2019s on board with this FI goal, he has totally different, I think priorities, in terms of how we spend. I\u2019m the much more, I\u2019d say, conscious about money and our budget. For me, I\u2019m past the nice car phase. I don\u2019t really care about that as much anymore or certain things I don\u2019t care but I know my husband would actually like a nicer car in the future again. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">In our twenties, we both had nice cars, we both were just living it up. Now, being more careful about how we spend, we don\u2019t have that anymore. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">We don\u2019t have the nice cars which I\u2019m totally fine with but I think that he would want one. I know that he would want one. Taking into consideration that he has different priorities and he has different values in terms of how he spends, when I came to him, I didn\u2019t come to him and say \u201cHey, I found out about FI and we need to downsize everything, move out of our house, and never go out to eat again.\u201d That would have not gone over well with him so I said to him, I literally said to him, \u201cHey, I also don\u2019t want to live like that. I like to go out to eat. I like where we live. I don\u2019t want to really move anywhere else at the moment\u201d. Knowing that, when I did talk to him, I didn\u2019t make it like \u201cHey this is what we need to do and you need to get on board because this is what I want.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I tried to incorporate his goals and tried to make him feel heard in the journey. For example, when I asked him the question \u201cWhat would make you still happy now? If we could rank the things that we spend money on, what would that be? What would be priorities? What would make you still feel good?\u201d but at the same time \u201cWhat kind of life do you want to live in the future? Do you want to have to work until you\u2019re 65? Don\u2019t you want to be able to possibly retire early?\u201d For him, he can actually stop working at 55 because of when he started working in his teacher system.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I said to him \u201cWouldn\u2019t you want to be able to stop working if you could at this age and wouldn\u2019t you want to travel without worrying about money?\u201d I think it came to \u201cYou know we still like going out to eat. We can still do that. Let\u2019s just put a budget around that. Instead of not worrying how much we spend, let\u2019s put a limit over on how much we spend and then in the same regard, the money that we\u2019re saving doing that, let\u2019s max out our pre-tax retirement or let\u2019s now open up<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Roth IRA\u2019s.\u201d It was that dance of \u201cWhat does it mean to live good now?\u201d and then \u201cWhat does it mean to live good in the future?\u201d and then kind of bringing that together really got him on board.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I also said to him \u201cListen. I\u2019m not going to judge you for wanting a nice car. Maybe we can get a nice car one day, again. If I can afford to- if we can afford to one day, let\u2019s buy you whatever car it is you know that you want 10 years from now.\u201d I think that also helps him also feels heard in a situation where it\u2019s just like \u201cOkay. Jamila is taking into account what I want too so it\u2019s a joint decision. It\u2019s not just her way or the highway\u201d.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>I love every single thing you said for the listeners. Scott and I take notes as we are doing this show so we can make sure we cover everything we want to and I wrote him a note \u201cI\u2019m going to interrupt her and tell her what a great approach that is and then we\u2019ll know I probably shouldn\u2019t interrupt her\u201d. I love that approach. It isn\u2019t just \u201cHey this is what we\u2019re going to do\u201d. That\u2019s really difficult for somebody to hear unless they\u2019re, you know you\u2019re the boss and they let you be the boss all the time. \u201cHey what does it look like?\u201d \u201cWhat is-?\u201d that\u2019s a really great way to frame it because I know that there\u2019s a lot of people who are discovering the concept of Financial Freedom and maybe don\u2019t understand how they can get their spouse on board or maybe they approached it the wrong way the first time or maybe their spouse was maybe just like \u201cNope. I\u2019m not interested.\u201d <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Okay well, framing it in your way is perfect. \u201cWhat do you want down the road? What makes you happy now? You don\u2019t have to cut everything. You don\u2019t have to have this horrible life now so you can also now have a horrible life down the road when you\u2019re living on beans and rice and peanut butter and jelly. Maybe you really like peanut butter and jelly or maybe beans and rice is worth it to you.\u201d That\u2019s just asking your spouse \u201cWhat does it look like? What is a good life now?\u201d and \u201cWhat is a good life later?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> And spreadsheets were a huge deal.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>I laughed when you said that because that\u2019s the new-to-financial-freedom-do-it-yourself-guide. \u201cOh if I show them a spreadsheet\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> Well, and listen, and you might have some listeners who are those like \u201cAll right, I\u2019m not good at spreadsheets\u201d. Totally fine, you don\u2019t even need to create your own but what I thought really helped him was that when I showed him \u201cHey, if we contribute- if we do what we\u2019re doing now, here\u2019s what we\u2019ll have in 15 years. Which is okay. It\u2019s not bad. We\u2019ll still be okay or 20 years or whatever.\u201d I said \u201cIf we do this, if we max out all of this, here is what we\u2019ll have in 10, 15, 20 years\u201d. When I was able to show him like the zeroes from just changing maybe how we invested and just cutting out things we didn\u2019t care about anyway, I think that excited him.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Something like \u201cListen, we can legit be millionaires when we are 55, 60 years old, or earlier than that- 40 years old, depending on how aggressive we want to make this. So how aggressive do we want to be so we can have that happen but then still be happy today? That\u2019s kind of the dance we did to get to where we are.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yes. That is just fantastic. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Okay. I\u2019ve got a question here. First of all, what year was this that you go through this transition?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> So the year that we started to max everything out so that it came all to a head was 2016 and \u201917. Those were the years we actually really maxed and saved as much as we could.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Okay. So within the last two or three years you made this transition. What specifically did you do to do this? Where did the savings come from? Was it eating out mostly? You mentioned that a couple of times. Where did that money come back in?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila: <\/b>You know it\u2019s so interesting because the year that we did max everything out for the first time, we weren\u2019t significantly making more money that year. It\u2019s not like we had a windfall or I had some huge increase at work or he did. I think what happened was, one, we just maxed all the pre-tax stuff. That stuff came right out of our check. It\u2019s funny because my husband at the time, I think he was contributing like 3% to his 403b plan so when I came home and say \u201cHey you have access to another one. We should max both of those out. What do you think?\u201d and he\u2019s looking at me like \u201cWhat?\u201d.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Literally like 50% of his check would need to go into both then the 403b plan and the 457 plan- like 50%. So he was going to have to go from three or six percent, I forgot the exact percentage, to 50% of his check. So that was again, when we talk about that dance and like thinking about it was part of it, but being to just get that money out of our check and so we only had to what was left. Maxing out everything and then getting our take-home and then saying \u201cOkay, so now what do we budget with?\u201d. As long as we could pay our mortgage and the necessary bills, the bills that we needed to survive on, was important. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Everything after that was \u201cOkay, so how much threshold do we still for then going out to eat and saving for maybe a vacation here and there?\u201d. I\u2019d say that maxing everything out first, the pre-tax stuff first, was very key. We didn\u2019t even see that money. Then budgeting what was left. What came home in our checks and then creating priorities around that. I knew after maxing out everything that I thought our priority should also be maxing out our Roth IRA\u2019s which we have to factor our Roth IRA\u2019s because of our income levels. That was another priority.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Then after that I was like \u201cOkay, so what else do we want to do?\u201d Our vacations right now a priority for us and they weren\u2019t, especially with the kids. It just wasn\u2019t. We put that on the back burner. We went through what was priority, we budgeted and we stayed in those confines.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> I love it. It\u2019s basically like \u201cWe weren\u2019t tracking all the spending before it seems like and whatever money we brought home was basically being spent and we didn\u2019t really even know it\u201d. That\u2019s what it sounds like previously and then with the 50% percent being held back you\u2019re just like \u201cNow we\u2019re only going to spend what\u2019s left and we\u2019ll make it work and it works fine and we don\u2019t really seem to notice it that much\u201d?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> Right and I would say too with the pre-tax stuff so we\u2019re saving money on taxes. Where as we weren\u2019t contributing that much or maxing out our pre-tax stuff, the government would have taken more money out so for every dollar that we didn\u2019t invest in our pre-tax account, the take-home was less anyway. By funnelling more money and being more tax efficient, we were able to not only save and invest in those accounts but then almost, it wasn\u2019t like a apples-to-apples takeaway. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Just because we\u2019re contributing 18,500 into our pre-taxes, it means we immediately saw 18,500 taken away because we got that tax advantage. I think that\u2019s the thing people have to start to think about is that we save so much money on taxes doing it that way that it actually worked out to our benefit to where it wasn\u2019t as much- yes our take-home definitely was less. It was a lot less but it wasn\u2019t as less because we were getting that tax advantage of pre-tax retirement investing. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Do you have any ballpark idea of where the spending- because there was less, right? If you\u2019re putting 18k away pre-tax, you\u2019re still going to have somewhere in the ballpark of 10k less in cash. What do you think the room in your budget came from? Was it in child care or was it in eating out? Car payments? What kinds of areas do you think?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> Right. We were able to get rid of our- right at that cusp, I think a year before we, my husband still had a lease for a car that we were able to get rid off and we ended up just buying our cars outright, our economical cars outright that we have now. Again, the budget with eating out. All the discretionary items that maybe it would\u2019ve been like 5 to 100 to 1000 dollars a month that we just didn\u2019t think much about. Whether that was just going and shopping here and there, eating out-it\u2019s just random things, even vacations. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Before the kids, we took more vacations. We spent more on those things. All that kind just went on the backburner. It\u2019s really just optimizing those fine-line items in our budget that really helped us.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>One of the biggest challenges for working parents is childcare expenses. How do you handle childcare?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila: <\/b>Good question. Especially living in New York City and the cost of childcare can be very expensive. We are lucky enough to have subsidized childcare because my aunt, so I have a family member who helps watch the kids. I have a four-year-old, a two-year-old and a three-month-old. The four-year-old will start school which is helpful because were actually paying for his school at three-years-old old. Now\u2019s he\u2019s four he gets to go to free PK. In New York City, there\u2019s a free PK program, which is excellence. That helps when you have kids that are four-years-old and over. They can start going to school for free.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">When it comes to now childcare, because my aunt is here and she\u2019s helping us, that is \u2013 we\u2019re able to save money there. I\u2019d say though, we still pay here and she actually- we have a basement apartment where we live now so it\u2019s almost like her cash payment is also subsidized by free room and board and electricity and all the other things that if she actually had to maybe had to live somewhere else, she\u2019d be paying a lot more for but because it\u2019s included in her total computation, it works out.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">It\u2019s a really good deal because we get to not have to pay as much because she does have the free room and board here and she doesn\u2019t have to pay as much if she were to live somewhere else. We are able to save on childcare expenses because of that and if we didn\u2019t have this situation, we would have definitely paying a lot more if we had to send our kids to daycare or to some center while we worked.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Awesome. Great hack.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Let\u2019s switch gears now and talk about your entrepreneurship and how it\u2019s looking to quit your job and go work for yourself fulltime.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> Sure. By the time this interview comes out it would be public that I have quit my job, I am now a fulltime entrepreneur which sounds so crazy saying it actually out loud. When I first started this journey, I said to myself \u201cI\u2019ve reached my financial independence mark at 40 years old and I first started at the time, at the time, it was like 33 when I officially marked it as my starting point\u201d and since starting Journey To Launch, since chronicling my path to Financial Independence, I found my passion.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">That thing that was missing all those years about not feeling fulfilled in my job and wanting to do more and use-really understanding that I wasn\u2019t utilizing my strengths, I found through Journey To Launch. For me, it became this point where I said to myself \u201cI can keep working and definitely meet my Financial Independence number earlier. I can reach it at 40 because I make more money, I\u2019m earning a lot. This is a six-figure job. I\u2019m getting bonuses. I\u2019d be on-track to meet that but I\u2019m also unhappy and I\u2019m spending a lot of time away from my kids because my commute is so crazy. Even if I got a job that was closer, it still not what I really want to do in life.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I was faced with the decision of staying on that path or following this path of my passion, entrepreneurship, seeing what was out there in the world. Because of that, I decided that, it mattered to me more to enjoy the journey. I figured that instead of working and putting my head down and being unhappy for the next seven years or whatever it was, I wanted to enjoy myself, enjoy my life, enjoy time with my kids and do something I loved. It caused me to step off that path that I first started on and create another path in which this can actually make this journey take longer. Maybe my Financial Independence journey now will take longer because now, I am giving up now this guaranteed income, this safe, cushy, job to follow my passions that-quite frankly- are not really earning much money yet.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">That\u2019s kind of crazy but I\u2019m happier and maybe because I am going to be able to spend more time doing this and I\u2019m able to put my passion and my talent into this, I\u2019ll earn money or maybe I\u2019ll earn more money so it can accelerate my journey to Financial Independence. I\u2019m willing to take that risk at the moment because I figured that life is too short and my priorities right now are my family and then just being happy in the moment doing things that I love. We\u2019ve changed our investing and saving strategy over the past year to accommodate this big change.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Awesome. One thing I want to- You started this thing 2016, 2017 with the idea of being able to retire within a set period of time according to your spreadsheet predictions, right? But then, now you\u2019re going to be pursuing entrepreneurship. Do you feel that the gains you made financially since deciding to pursue FI have given you the courage or the mental power you need to go ahead and make this change right now.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> I\u2019m so glad you brought that up Scott because it totally did. This is why I think everyone should be on the path to reach Financial Independence and not because you want to retire early or you\u2019ll ever reach it because some people may not ever get to that number but I think just because I\u2019ve started on<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>this, I would never be in a position I think to leave my cushy job when I just had a baby, have a mortgage, living in New York City, if I didn\u2019t<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>set myself up and have started saving and investing so aggressively- even for those two years.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Sometimes I look back like \u201cOh my gosh. If I had known about this and I was able to do this for five, ten years before this, I would have been in an even better place\u201d but just those two years of being so intentional, it\u2019s like our retirement accounts were good in terms of how much we saved on that. We\u2019re on track. We\u2019re past, we\u2019re on a good trajectory there. So even if we took a break, even if Journey To Launch makes no money, even if I pursue other things and make no money and we took a pause on investing, even if we put it on autopilot, our investment accounts would accumulate to a point where we\u2019d be okay in our standard retirement age.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">To be clear, my husband is still going to work. Taking such a leap also is beneficial when you have a spouse that can help with this because if my husband didn\u2019t have a job, this would not be possible. His job is able to somewhat cover the expenses and because we save so much money and so the whole idea of F.U. money so you guys know what that is, right?<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Like if you\u2019re saving for F.U. money-<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> What\u2019s it stand for? Sorry, never mind.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> F.U. but respectfully. I always say it\u2019s respectfully. I\u2019m so grateful for my job to have given me the opportunities that it did, to earn the money that I did. In a respectful fashion now, instead of saving all the money that we did towards our pre-tax retirement accounts, we started to save it in more liquid, so cash, in terms of a savings account, our Roth IRA\u2019s, things in which we could access if we needed to. So that way, taking this break from my job to pursue my passions, we wouldn\u2019t be desperate or on the bridge of financial ruin because we saved enough money to give me that runway.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Yes. Starting on this path, I would not be in a position to do that because if I was just doing the minimum- If we were only doing the minimum of this the whole time, we wouldn\u2019t be in a position financially to have enough in our investment accounts, our savings accounts or even just have the confidence in our F.U. money to be able to do any of this.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> I love it. I think it\u2019s just so funny and so, not funny but it\u2019s so ironic that our whole thing here is \u201cHow do we help people achieve Financial Freedom?\u201d but it seems that the power in that goal is the journey and freedom that it gives you along the way for your entire rest of your life because most people it seems don\u2019t actually then slog it out for the ten years that they need to do to actually achieve FI. There\u2019s a much more creative and roundabout approach that involves a whole bunch of different convolutions and twists like entrepreneurship or real estate or side hussles or whatever.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">It\u2019s just about more and more freedom and power to direct your day. I think it\u2019s so interesting that because you start with goal, you may not achieve it, you may but you\u2019re in a position right now of power that you wouldn\u2019t have been if you hadn\u2019t gone down this path.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Well she\u2019s already reached freedom because she can go do this. It isn\u2019t necessarily about quitting your job and never working again and just sitting on your butt and watching T.V.. That\u2019s not really a great life goal anyway although who am I to tell you that you just can\u2019t just sit there and watch Game of Thrones 24 hours a day? That\u2019s your choice. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> My favorite.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>I actually have never seen it. You have reached financial freedom. You have the freedom to pursue this endeavour, this entrepreneurship and if doesn\u2019t work out, what\u2019s the worst that could happen? Oh you get a job. Like Joel from F.I. 180 on Episode 11, he said <i>My worst case scenario was everybody else\u2019s everyday life<\/i>. So maybe you try this and maybe you\u2019re a millionaire next month and you try it and maybe it doesn\u2019t work out so you go back and you get a job. You\u2019re just like everybody else. It doesn\u2019t mean that you\u2019re going to be ruined if you try this. You have reached financial freedom. Congratulations.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila: <\/b>Thank you. I will say so when I \u2013 obviously we gave this a lot of thought, I took my spreadsheets out and did a lot of calculations on, so taking a break for, and I gave myself two years. I\u2019m definitely not one of those people who says \u201cIt\u2019s all or nothing, this is going to work and I\u2019m never going back to work\u201d. I\u2019m not even thinking that way. I always like to think about the worst-case-scenario so like you said, my worst case scenario is that in two years, if I\u2019m not able to earn any income, we started seeing that our accounts are getting too low because literally the money that we\u2019ve saved is going to help bridge now all our expenses because my husband\u2019s salary can\u2019t cover everything but we have enough money now to help bridge that gap. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">If start seeing like \u201cWait a second, this is, we\u2019re getting into uncomfortable territory, our savings are dwindling too much\u201d then I\u2019d go back and get a job. But I think I\u2019m so blessed to have found this path and now be talking about it and like you said spreading the word to others because without this, without starting on it, I would not be in this position to do this.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Yes. It\u2019s like my worst case is everyone\u2019s probably everyday scenario or life. How bad is that? It\u2019s not the end of the world.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy<\/b>: Yes. No, it\u2019s not the end of the world at all and I have met you. I saw you speak at Podcast Movement. You just set out a goal and you hit it. You knocked-it-out-of-the-park hit it. It\u2019s not just \u201cOh, I might reach it.\u201d Jamila just knocks it out of the park. I don\u2019t really see you having another real job again but again, what\u2019s the worst? \u201cOkay so I have to go work\u201d. I work. I work at a job that I love every single day. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Is there anything else that you would like to share about your journey or about what you think other people can do before we move on to the famous Four Questions?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> I\u2019d say this that you don\u2019t necessarily have to max- I like coming at this from point of view from <i>Everyone\u2019s journey is different<\/i>. Yes I was able to save a lot of money and max everything out for a couple of years. My husband and I, we had a good income when we\u2019re able to do that but even if your starting point is that you\u2019re paying off debt, paying off credit cards, student loan debt. That\u2019s major. That\u2019s a win.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I hate to downplay for people to think that their wins are not big enough and I think you should be celebrating each one because it\u2019s so important and every step you make towards getting out of debt. Even if just putting 1% more into your retirement accounts-every step you make closer to this FI goal that you have is a good one and so you should be proud of yourself. I just want people to listen and walk away with feeling that no matter what they\u2019re doing, as long as they\u2019re doing a little bit better than they did before, it\u2019s good enough. It\u2019s good.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> So powerful. Every step gets you further and yes, everybody\u2019s journey is different. Everybody makes a different salary, everybody has different goals. Personal finance is personal so your story is yours but this is so awesome. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Okay, now it\u2019s time for our famous Four Questions. This is the same five questions we ask every guest. What is your favorite finance book?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> My favorite finance book is <i>The Richest Man in Babylon<\/i> which is not technically directly finance but I think it\u2019s a great parable on just investing and saving so-<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> That\u2019s my favorite book too. I love the language. It\u2019s written in King James Bible or Shakespearean language and I love language so that\u2019s my favorite book.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> A classic that you should go read if you haven\u2019t already. It\u2019s like an hour, two hours to read the whole thing.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> It\u2019s a short book but it\u2019s really great and it was written or it was published in 1920. I think it\u2019s really powerful that the same things that happened 98 years ago hold true today.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila: <\/b>Right and you could probably get it- I think the last time I listened to it was on YouTube for free.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Oh, even better. A frugal book.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> All right, what was your biggest money mistake?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> Biggest money mistake was probably buying my luxury car that I had to put premium gas in to commute so far to work but I\u2019d say it was also my funnest mistake because I did feel really good driving when I had it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> What kind of car was it?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>I was just going ask that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila: <\/b>It was a BMW 328 xi coupe.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Oh nice. I\u2019d love to post a picture of one of those in the show notes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> What color was it?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila: <\/b>It was black but you know it\u2019s funny because after I had my first kid, I was like \u201cThere\u2019s no way I\u2019m putting a car seat like struggling to get a kid in and out of that\u201d. That was so not smart. I got rid of it immediately after my first kid.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay. What is your best piece of advice for people who are just starting out?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila: <\/b>To cut yourself some slack. The fact that you\u2019re just starting out is an accomplishment because there\u2019s some people who never start. Getting on the journey, just starting it, is a win and just take your time you\u2019re not going to write all the mistakes you did in the past. Don\u2019t blame yourself for the mistakes that you made that you didn\u2019t know any better or just start.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> I love that. That is fabulous.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> What is your favorite joke to tell at parties?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> Oh my gosh. I\u2019m not a joke-teller because my friends will say that I\u2019m kind of corny with that. Can I say I don\u2019t have jokes?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Well, we\u2019ve got a whole list of jokes. I\u2019m trying to find it now. We\u2019ve got a whole list of jokes that our readers send in, or our listeners send in because they love these jokes. Scott, I\u2019m sure has 212. Scott, do you want to do a joke?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Let\u2019s read one from the list.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Gina Moses asks <i>Why did the cowboy get a wiener dog? Because he wanted to get a long little doggy.<\/i> It doesn\u2019t have to be a good joke.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> Wait.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> I don\u2019t get it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> A weiner dog is a really stretchy dog. He wanted to get \u201cGit Along Little Doggy\u201d. You\u2019re not a cowboy, Scott, so you don\u2019t know.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> Oh I see, Git Along Little Doggy.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Oh I see.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>He wanted to \u201cGit Along Little Doggy\u201d but that\u2019s also a cowboy comment. Oh here\u2019s one from Marvin Barrera:<i> There were two cannibals eating a clown and while they were munching away, one of them turned to the other and said-<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> \u201cThat tastes funny.\u201d Is that it?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Yes!<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> Oh really?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> And Jaime D&#8217;Souza: <i>Why did the jaguar eat the tightrope walker? He was looking for a well-balanced meal<\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Ahh.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> See, so it doesn\u2019t even have to be a good joke, Jamila.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila: <\/b>All right, so I\u2019ll write these down and I\u2019ll say them at the next parties I\u2019m at to see the response I get.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Nice.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yes. Probably one of those-<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Nice. Yes. You\u2019d have like a huge crowd forming around you.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> Right.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Scott tells jokes like that all day long. All day every day. Okay. Jamila, where can people find out more about you? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> Sure, so you can check out my podcast or if you listen to this amazing podcast, you can find my podcast <i>Journey To Launch<\/i>. I\u2019m also <i>Journey To Launch<\/i> on all social media. I love connecting with listeners after they hear me if they have more questions. Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook as <i>Journey To Launch <\/i>and of course you could just check out my site <i>journeytolaunch.com<\/i> <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay and that\u2019s t-o, not the number two?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> Yes. That\u2019s t-o. Journey to, t-o, launch.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay and we will have all of these links on our show notes. Today the show notes can be found at biggerpockets.com\/moneyshow39.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Awesome. Jamila, thank you so much for your time today. I learned so much. You\u2019re going to benefit my sister, if nobody else because I\u2019m going to go get her into her 457 plan and get her going with that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> Well thank you so much Mindy and Scott for having me. This was great. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Yes. Thank you for coming on. This was awesome.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> This was awesome. Okay, well have a good day Jamila. We\u2019ll talk to you soon.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jamila:<\/b> Thanks<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> All right. That was Jamila with journeytolaunch.com. Mindy what did you think?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Oh my goodness. Blew my mind and like I said at the end, I can\u2019t wait to go talk to my sister and tell her to start investing in the 457. I\u2019ve never even heard of that before and granted it isn\u2019t something that I can qualify for, so maybe it doesn\u2019t matter but I would like to tell other people. I\u2019m really hoping that there are people who have heard it for the first time on this show too and they can go and take advantage of that or start taking advantage of it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Yes. I bet you that it\u2019s not all that uncommon amongst some of our listeners where their one spouse works for a non-profit or in the public sector and the other maybe works a higher-income job in the private sector. That seems like that\u2019s something that\u2019s very feasible across a large number of people out there. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">If that\u2019s the case, you might have the ability some of that excess household income through more multiple tax-advantaged accounts and really achieve an advantage that folks without those kinds of careers won\u2019t have.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">It\u2019s kind of a way to turn something that\u2019s a public sector job, which is often lower income, into a huge- I guess no, what\u2019s the opposite of liability?- asset on your journey towards Financial Freedom.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Yes. Before I had kids, I worked at a job that didn\u2019t pay super well. It basically funded our retirement. On January first every day, I would go in and say \u201cOkay I want to contribute 100% of my salary to my 401k and it took my HR person a couple of times doing this she figured out that I really truly did want to receive no income until I had maxed out my 401k because I wasn\u2019t making that much money. My pay check really didn\u2019t matter.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Oh yes. I did not max out my 401k for the first couple of years in the journey to FI. I think I had good reason for doing that. I house-hacked and I built up some investible liquidity outside of retirement accounts that I could spend and use to fund my journey when I switched jobs from my first jobs to <i>BiggerPockets<\/i> and some other things. But now that I am maxing out my 401k because that is the best move for my financial strategy at this point, the very first of the year- first pay check- I slide the scale right up to a 100% and I do not receive a pay check, a single dollar into my bank account until I have maxed out my entire yearly contribution.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Wow. That\u2019s an even more impressive story because mine was I was married and had more ways to generate income and you are not married so-<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> It\u2019s not very difficult if you\u2019ve been pursuing FI for a couple of years and save up some cash so you can live off of no pay check for a couple of months while you\u2019re- The way I see it, mathematically, if you\u2019re assuming the market\u2019s going to go up, you might as well dump it all in at the very beginning of the year because now it has more time to grow in there than if you dump it in at the end of the year, right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Past performance is not indicative of future gains. Make sure you get that little disclaimer in there but yes I believe that the market will continue to go up eventually. It might crash. I don\u2019t have a super lot of confidence in our current situation but it\u2019s going to continue to go up in my opinion so I continue to invest in it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">The way that you approach your retirement planning is different than the way that I approach my retirement planning. First of all, I did not have a lot of \u2013 I didn\u2019t have any rental income. We were flipping houses but that was just what we did. I didn\u2019t realize that was investing in real estate until after I started working here. \u201cOh, yeah I invested in real estate\u201d. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> That\u2019s the definition in investing in real estate.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> I know, right? I didn\u2019t have these other options or I didn\u2019t think about these other options so I like that that\u2019s what you\u2019re doing too. Congratulations, Scott. I approve.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Well, thank you. Yes.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Another thing I couldn\u2019t understand is like if you\u2019re going to max out your Roth, right? If your plan is to max out your Roth, why aren\u2019t you maxing out Roth day one of the new year? I would go to Scottrade which I don\u2019t think they even exist anymore. They like got bought or something. I go to Scottrade on the first business day of the year and I was always shocked that there wasn\u2019t a line of people waiting eagerly to deposit the entirety of their maximum allowable contribution to their Roth IRA at 8 A.M. on the first business day of the year.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> You physically walked there?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Yes because it would take- it was so difficult to do it online for whatever reasons. I just like \u201cIt\u2019s not that far away\u201d so I literally show up with a check at their first<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>moment that they opened so I can get the entire year of gains investing in my Roth IRA. I was always so confused that people wouldn\u2019t do this. If you\u2019re going to max it out, go max it out, go big. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> You plan ahead. There you go. That\u2019s funny. Did you call it MeTrade instead of Scottrade?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> No but I\u2019m not going to lie and say that I don\u2019t really know how much of a difference I perceived really between all of the different brokererages and all that but Scottrade had definitely had some appeal to me.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Okay. So Scott, at the end of last week\u2019s episode, I revealed that I have received now two emails telling me that \u201cOver and out\u201d is the wrong thing to say at the end of the show so I\u2019m looking for a new end. We do record these shows in advance so I have not received any new endings for people<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>tweeting me mindy@bp that\u2019s m-i-n-d-y-a-t-b-p with your suggestions for how to end the show. So today, I am just going to say from episode 39 of <i>TheBiggerPockets<\/i> <i>Money Podcast<\/i>, this is Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench and we\u2019re leaving.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Goodbye.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Slam. Brick wall. Hit a brick wall but we did run very long today with Jamila because she had so many good things to say so that\u2019s the end of the show. Thank you for listening. Have a nice day. Goodbye.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>[End of Recording][1:09:00]<\/b><\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<h2>Watch the Podcast Here<\/h2>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"From \u201cBad with Money\u201d to Intentional Saving and Spending with Jamila Souffrant | BP Money 39\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/x4wNDglwUpo?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h2>Help Us Out!<\/h2>\n<p>Help us reach new listeners on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/biggerpockets-money-podcast\/id1330225136\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">iTunes<\/a>\u00a0by leaving us a rating and review! It takes just 30 seconds.\u00a0Thanks! We really appreciate it!<\/p>\n<h2>Podcast Sponsors<\/h2>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-102474 size-medium\" src=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/09\/LinkedIn-Logo-black-300x81.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"81\" title=\"\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/09\/LinkedIn-Logo-black-300x81.png 300w, https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/09\/LinkedIn-Logo-black-768x208.png 768w, https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/09\/LinkedIn-Logo-black-1024x278.png 1024w, https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/09\/LinkedIn-Logo-black.png 1280w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/>For the small business owner who is looking to expand their business in the pursuit of financial independence, hiring can be a daunting task. Thankfully <strong>LinkedIn<\/strong> is here to help and get you on the path to FI! That\u2019s why you should use LinkedIn to find your next hire, grow your business, and hit that FI number! Most LinkedIn members have not recently visited the top job boards, but 9 out of 10 members are open to new opportunities. That\u2019s why a new hire is made every 10 seconds using LinkedIn. BiggerPockets even uses LinkedIn as part of our hiring strategy!<\/p>\n<p>Hurry to <a href=\"https:\/\/linkedin.com\/bp\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">linkedin.com\/bp<\/a> and get $50 off your first job post.<\/p>\n<h2>Second Sponsor<\/h2>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-77567 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/03\/simplisafe.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"271\" height=\"58\" title=\"\"><\/p>\n<p>One of the easiest ways you can protect your properties\u2014is investing in a great security system. By far, my personal recommendation, is SimpliSafe.<\/p>\n<p>SimpliSafe is awesome. It\u2019s really reliable, with really fast response times, which is huge. It\u2019s really easy to move between properties. And there are no contracts either.<\/p>\n<p>I really like it, and I\u2019m not alone\u2014it\u2019s CNET\u2019s Editors choice, and the Wirecutter calls it \u201cThe Best Home Security.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Go to <a href=\"http:\/\/simplisafe.com\/pockets\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">simplisafe.com\/pockets<\/a> to learn more.<\/p>\n<h2>In This Episode We Cover:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>Jamila&#8217;s background<\/li>\n<li>Why she saves money<\/li>\n<li>How she discovered investing<\/li>\n<li>Her financial independence journey<\/li>\n<li>How she convinced her husband about financial independence<\/li>\n<li>What 457 and 403B plans mean<\/li>\n<li>Contribution limit for 457 and 403B plans<\/li>\n<li>Maxing out her Roth IRA<\/li>\n<li>Biggest challenge for working parents in terms of childcare expenses<\/li>\n<li>Her life now after quitting her job and working for herself full-time<\/li>\n<li><strong>And SO much more!<\/strong><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Links from the Show<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/forums\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Forums<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.madfientist.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Mad Fientist<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.mrmoneymustache.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Mr. Money Mustache<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.millionaireeducator.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">The Millionaire Educator<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/podcastmovement.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Podcast Movement<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/mindyatbp?lang=en\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Mindy&#8217;s Twitter Profile<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Books Mentioned in this Show<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/2pq9FTO\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>The Richest Man in Babylon<\/em><\/a> by George S. Clason<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Tweetable Topics:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>&#8220;Everyone&#8217;s journey is different.&#8221; (Tweet This!)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Every step you make closer to this FI goal that you have is a good one and so you should be proud of yourself.&#8221;\u00a0(Tweet This!)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;As long as you are doing a little bit better than you did before, it&#8217;s good enough.&#8221;\u00a0(Tweet This!)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Don&#8217;t blame yourself for the mistakes you made.\u201d\u00a0(Tweet This!)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Connect with Jamila<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.journeytolaunch.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Jamila&#8217;s Website<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.journeytolaunch.com\/podcastlanding\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Journey To Launch Podcast<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/journeytolaunch\/?hl=en\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Jamila&#8217;s Instagram<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/journeytolaunch\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Jamila&#8217;s Twitter Profile<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/journeytolaunch\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Jamila&#8217;s Facebook Page<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Jamila Souffrant grew up watching her mom struggle to provide for her. She decided early on that she wanted to be a millionaire, her solution to not having enough was [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":353007,"featured_media":102480,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[6473],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-102469","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-biggerpocketsmoney"],"acf":[],"comment_count":0,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/102469","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/353007"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=102469"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/102469\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/102480"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=102469"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=102469"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=102469"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}