{"id":102934,"date":"2018-10-13T00:02:50","date_gmt":"2018-10-13T06:02:50","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/renewsblog\/?p=102934"},"modified":"2023-04-26T21:58:52","modified_gmt":"2023-04-27T03:58:52","slug":"biggerpockets-money-fincon-bonus-episode-debt-free-years-zina-kumok","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/biggerpockets-money-fincon-bonus-episode-debt-free-years-zina-kumok","title":{"rendered":"BiggerPockets Money FinCon Bonus Episode: Debt Free in Three Years With Zina Kumok"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><strong>Zina Kumok<\/strong>\u2019s parents immigrated to the United States with no money or education, completely unprepared for the consumerist society they found themselves in. They quickly got into credit card debt in order to have the lifestyle they \u201cdeserved.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">An avid listener of Dave Ramsey, Zina quickly determined she did not want to ever be in debt. However, she graduated with $24,000 in student loan debt and made it her mission to pay that off as soon as she could. Every single extra dime she found, she threw at her debt until it was all gone.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Once the debt was gone, Zina realized that she needed to ramp up her investing. Not one to just &#8220;show up and wing it,&#8221; she set about learning how to invest properly.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Zina\u2019s story illustrates that you CAN pay off debt while making a lower salary, you CAN pursue financial independence while self-employed, and your past does not have to define you.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/biggerpockets-money-podcast\/id1330225136\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Click here<\/a>\u00a0to listen on iTunes.<\/p>\n<h2>Listen to the Podcast Here<\/h2>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https:\/\/playlist.megaphone.fm?e=BIGPOC1124037550&#038;light=false\" width=\"100%\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h2>Read the Transcript Here<\/h2>\n<div style=\"overflow-y: scroll; max-height: 400px; background: #eee; padding: 20px; border: 1px solid #ddd;\">\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>Welcome to the BiggerPockets Podcast the Fincon Bonus Edition where we interview Zina Kumok.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>It\u2019s time for a new American dream one that doesn\u2019t involve working in a cubicle for 40 years barely scraping by. Whether you\u2019re looking to get your financial house in order or invest the money you already have or discover new paths for wealth creation, you\u2019re in the right place.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>This show is for anyone who has money or wants more. This is the BiggerPockets Money Podcast.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I\u2019m Scott Trench and here with my co-host Ms. Mindy Jensen. How are you today, Mindy?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Scott I am doing fantastic and I want to thank Ally Bank for sponsoring the live podcast at Fincon \u201918. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">When it comes to money and everything you\u2019re working for do it right, do it with Ally. Ally is spelled A-L-L-Y. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Nice that\u2019s awesome. Should we get right back to it, bring Zina in and talk about money?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>We should do it right away. We should do it quickly because we only have a 20 minute spot today. We\u2019re getting ready to go to the keynotes so but we stopped Zina to talk to her in the hallway to talk to her. Zina, hello! How\u2019s it going?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>I\u2019m having a great time, a little tired well I think we all are, learning a lot, hanging out with a lot of fun people. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Well awesome. Let\u2019s get right into it. Zina can you walk us through the foundation of your work with money. Where would you say that your journey with money begins?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>I was born in, no, wait.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>That\u2019s my line.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Really?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>I was born in small town.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>I was not born in small town. No but my parents when I was a little kid they always talked about money, got into credit card debt and they felt like no one really gave them a financial education because they immigrated here from Ukraine when I was a little kid. And I think they wanted to impart that to me.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So I remember growing listening to Dave Ramses as a kid on the radio and I always found it really, really interesting when they would talk about someone would come in and say credit card debt, mortgage, or I\u2019ve got a tax lean or something and he would create a simple plan to help him get out of debt and he was very reassuring and that always captivated me.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And then when I graduated college I had student loans and I have never had debt before. I had never had a car loan or anything like that. And I just hated the feeling of being in debt. I knew that I should have been saving for retirement, saving for an emergency fund but I felt like, okay, I have all these loans to pay and I really felt the physically weight of it and I started a blog of trying to pay off my student loans for 3 years.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Awesome you know the one thing that I\u2019ve analysed coming to mind is your parents are Ukrainian you\u2019re Russian ancestry, right? The Millionaire Next Door was actually published in the 1990s and they mentioned that their folks are of Russian decent were some of the wealthiest demographic in the United States.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I was wondering if there\u2019s like any cultural things that were around, good financial habits that you have noticed in the community, parent\u2019s friends, those kinds of things.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>I think probably a lot of it is that if you came over, if you were lucky enough to come over, you probably have a strong education, you were probably coming from a professional background. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So my mom has masters in Nuclear Physics and my dad is a typical Software Programmer. My mom got her CPA when we were here and I think from what I\u2019ve seen from her friends it was just like doctors and lawyers and engineers just professional people coming over. You know English was hard to learn but if they learned it they could set up a good life and they\u2019ve been living here.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Awesome. I don\u2019t know why that point flew into my head and wanted to talk about it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>No it\u2019s interesting.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>So let\u2019s talk about what you did to kind of pay down the debt over those 3 years. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>And what kind of debt are we talking about?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Just student loans.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Well how much?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>24,000 in principal and I think it ended up being 28 with interest and I paid it off.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Ok. So you just won the lottery?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>I wish! No I mean I wish I was more interesting. It was the typical.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>This is going to be boring then. I wish you were more interesting too.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Well it\u2019s funny because at one point a story about me on student loans got picked up by Time and they posted it on their Facebook page and it went viral. And you get the dumb comments like \u201cShe probably sold drugs.\u201d And I think drug dealers make way more than 30,000 dollars. I think. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I don\u2019t know if you\u2019d take the risk if you\u2019re only making that much which is how much I was paying when I was starting paying off my student loans I was a paper reporter making 28 grand a year. And then at the end of my student loan journey I was making 31 grand. I never made more than that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I was living in Indiana which is a low cost to live in city. Two years I paid rent by myself. Rent was 30% of my take home pay so that\u2019s pretty high. I just did the typical things of like any time I got some extra money, you visit your parents and they give you a few hundred bucks, immediately paid towards my loans. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">If I got a birthday check, for my loans. I was pretty much like \u201cOh I don\u2019t need anything just give me cash I\u2019m going to pay off my loans back\u201d. I remember one time my in-laws gave me money for a trip I was going on and they said, \u201cWe want you to use this for the trip and enhance your experience. Don\u2019t use this on your student loans.\u201d And then I did. Maybe when they listen to this they will find out. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But I learned how to budget and I had probably, not a shopping addiction in college, but if I was bored, if I was feeling bad or anxious I would just walk out the door and just go shopping. My friends would always tease me about the size of my closet, that my drawers were just stuffed. Things had tags on them or that I\u2019ve worn only a couple of times. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I mean I flew back from a study abroad I had to pay for overage fee on my luggage because I just spent so much money there. When I interned in New York I remember at one point I was eating out 3 times a day so really a lot of emotional spending going on. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Wait in the 3 years that you were paying this off though you were extremely living frugal life though?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Alright because you know if you\u2019re saying that you\u2019re average income is less than 30,000 dollars that means that you\u2019re living off of 20,000 dollars in cash or less to get through that right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Yes. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>So what does that look like? What\u2019s your rent? How are you getting around transportation wise?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>So I was lucky my parents had given me a car when I was in college so I didn\u2019t have an auto loan which was really nice. So my rent I believe was 550 that first year I was paying off my student loans. And then it was 645 so a decent chunk of my take home pay I think it was around 30%. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">The first year I wasn\u2019t saving anything for a time though I was trying to build an emergency fund. I think I probably had 5,000 stashed in an emergency fund that was only built from the ground up. I remember starting my first job and borrowing money from my parents for the security deposit of my apartment. And it\u2019s funny because I paid a lot probably 200 a month on gas because I was visiting my boyfriend every weekend and in a different city and gas was 4 dollars a gallon. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But except for that I didn\u2019t buy beer, I didn\u2019t go out; I didn\u2019t go out to eat. I tried to spend 150 a month on groceries. If I bought make up it was from a drug store, I stopped going to Sephora. If I got clothes it was from good will or a thrift store. You know really trying to be lean in that way and in the library instead of going to the bookstore. Really, really cutting back.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>So after a couple of years you got to zero. How did that feel? What was your emotional experience getting through the final stages?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>You know there\u2019s a Jim Carrey quote, \u201cI wish everyone can become rich and famous so they can see that their problems wouldn\u2019t go away\u201d. I thought being debt free would relieve my financial anxiety and it didn\u2019t because suddenly I realized I\u2019m 25 and I don\u2019t really have much saved for retirement. I\u2019m behind on saving for retirement. Which some people would say well now you\u2019ve paid your loans. And my loans were at 6.8% interest, that\u2019s a good return to get but now it was suddenly I need to catch up on retirement so I have anxiety on that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I wish I could say it was just feeling. I was proud of myself but suddenly I felt if I want to save 10-15% of my salary for retirement I have to catch up real quickly to do that. I think that\u2019s the journey to achieving any financial goals is that if you think it\u2019s going to make you feel more secure or more stable in life, I mean, talked to plenty of people all the time who make more than I do and they\u2019re still looking in a 6 dollar bottle of water. That\u2019s crazy!<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Well yeah that\u2019s crazy!<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>It is, it is!<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>I went out to breakfast yesterday with somebody and I wasn\u2019t that hungry. He said, \u201cLet me buy you breakfast.\u201d Well I don\u2019t want an 18 dollar worth of a buffet.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Oh I do.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Growing boy.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yup Scott would. Scott could eat 12 times out. But no I can\u2019t spend that and he\u2019s like I\u2019ll just put it on my expense account. I can\u2019t have you, I can put it on my expense account too I\u2019m just not going to because that\u2019s 18 dollars. That\u2019s like a whole day worth of groceries. So I totally get that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>You should know though at age 25 having zero dollars in debt and also having zero on retirement puts you on the top 10% of 25 year olds. I mean it\u2019s not like you\u2019re doing a bad job having nothing saved.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>You know what\u2019s crazy though is when you see the stats on how many Americans live on less than 400 dollars in liquid assets for an emergency fund or how many students have 20,000 dollars or less in retirement and I think we\u2019re all doing bad. Everyone is messing up right now.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Just because you\u2019re in the top 5% doesn\u2019t mean that you\u2019re doing enough. And that\u2019s what so scary when you look at the numbers. It\u2019s almost terrifying.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I have friend who I think oh yeah you seem to be responsible and they tell me numbers and never mind. It\u2019s so rare to find someone doing all of the right things. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Well how do you know? You\u2019re parents came over here, you\u2019re mom what is she a nuclear physicist? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>So she ended up getting her accountant degree because to our surprise they weren\u2019t hiring nuclear physicists so they ended up with that plan.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Wow. So she\u2019s a nuclear physicist. The last I checked you have to be remotely smart to be a nuclear physicist.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>CPA exam is kind of difficult to pass from what I\u2019ve heard, I haven\u2019t passed it myself. So your mom sounds smart.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Very smart.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>And what was your dad a software engineer? Also a field not actively hiring idiots. So there\u2019s some intelligence there and they came to America and immediately went into debt you said.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Because people told them you need to buy that and put it on a credit card and don\u2019t worry about it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Well yes they don\u2019t know about money either.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>They haven\u2019t been taught yet.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>And now they\u2019ve done a very good job playing catch up these last, I would say, 20 years gotten out of debt and really ramped up retirement plans to retire early which they can do because they have good paying jobs. But it\u2019s kind of scary when you look around and see articles say how much you should save for retirement, save this for retirement, save this for emergency fund, how much it needs for your car if it breaks down or have enough to pay part of your health care. And then you think oh gosh how many of us are actually doing most of the things we should be.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I think you should know what you should be doing. There\u2019s no benchmark, there\u2019s no milestone but the closest we can maybe get to that kind of what we should be doing is high savings rate which you had. Even if you have very low income you have high savings rate and I assume that you\u2019re resumed to have high savings rate and you\u2019re beginning to deploy that various wealth in different aspects, am I right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>You know what\u2019s funny is some people said I should move to Denver. I\u2019m looking at the two of you. I moved to Denver.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Denver\u2019s a great place.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Ok at the last year I was paying off my student loans my rent was $266 a month.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>In Denver?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>In Indianapolis.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>I was going to say where did you get a place in Denver that\u2019s 266?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Probably on the street.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>You should have stayed in Indianapolis.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>I did the math one day. I lived in Denver for 3 years and I did the math, what if I stayed in that cheap apartment with roommates. I spent 35,000 dollars.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>In rent?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Yes I spent more in rent.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>What if 3 years ago Scott bought a property in Denver?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>You would have made more than $35,000.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>We\u2019re not here to bash you about not buying real estate but you should totally buy real estate.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>I just bought my first house.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Oh where?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>You did! You didn\u2019t tell me this.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Yes. I did tell you, you weren\u2019t listening. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Ok I wasn\u2019t listening tell me now. Karl does not tell me anything.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Ok I just bought my first house.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yay!<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Just for my own, not to house pet like you do. No one send me mean comments.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>If anyone sends you mean comments you send them to me and I\u2019ll send them mean comments back. This is great! Do you or do you not need a place to live?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>I do.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yes and now you won it!<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Yes, and my neighbourhood is it\u2019s not scary justifying but you can see things are getting put it. The people that we bought it from, and I should have bought 3 years ago in Indi, they only lived there for 2 years and they made $40,000 more. They bought it for 140, we bought it at 180. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Wow.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>So there\u2019s appreciation and Indianapolis is a great real estate market.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>And that was for 2 years.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>For 2 years $40,000 is nice.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>But I mean it\u2019s not Denver.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Well I would say that you lived in Denver a couple of years but it seems like now you\u2019re prepared financially to buy a house so at least it seems like your overall savings has built something. Can you walk us through your financial portfolio and decisions and lifestyle look like after the debt was paid off.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Yes so it\u2019s funny for a while all my investing decisions were whatever dad tells me to do. He did teach himself a lot about investing, he could make better decisions. And I realized at one point as we all do, no offense Mindy, that our parents don\u2019t know everything. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Are you saying that I\u2019m old enough to be your mom?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>No you\u2019re definitely not old enough to be my mom. I\u2019ve done the math.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>So have I. Yes you\u2019re the best. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>But I\u2019ve realized that don\u2019t know my situation. My dad is investing for himself, he\u2019s middle aged and I need to invest for myself we have totally different saving principles right now. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And I remember Stefanie O\u2019Connell of A Broken and Beautiful Life and she wrote at one point why aren\u2019t women writing more about investing, why is it that women write about living frugally or saving for a family. Why don\u2019t women write about investing, it\u2019s mostly a male dominant space. And I don\u2019t write about it because I\u2019m not qualified and was just \u201cWhy don\u2019t you become qualified?\u201d and I thought who are you to tell me what to do. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>She\u2019s Stefanie O\u2019Connell.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Yes and I thought it made me really insecure. So I thought I\u2019m just scared of it, I don\u2019t know anything. Those are big, scary words and then I started slowly teaching myself, actually reading money magazine and Kipling\u2019s kind of helped because they\u2019re pretty, not low level, but easy to understand. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I actually took a financial planner course sponsored by Karl Richards if you guys ever read his stuff and I started to teach myself a little more ok you want this much midcap and this much large. I didn\u2019t experiment a while back where I set up before an IRA for my husband\u2019s with Betterment and I set up an IRA for myself through Vanguard and I picked up my own stocks and over the year I feel like I just slightly edging him out so I thought ok I\u2019m doing as well as this mogul advisor which is vetted and people use and like and I\u2019m doing the same thing. And I\u2019m smart enough to do that. And I think that\u2019s been something I never felt that empowerment before. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Like now I can look at my friend\u2019s investment and say, I mean not specifically, but I can say you have too many bonds, I feel like I can do that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>That\u2019s awesome so what do you do? What is your philosophy then? How are you allocating yourself? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>I try to be pretty aggressive. I should probably have more bonds honestly, I\u2019m 30, so I should probably have few more bonds but I just really like Vanguard, Index Funds US and I think a few more emerging markets. I\u2019m not anything, the basics, nothing fancy.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>So you\u2019re not picking stocks you\u2019re just choosing index funds?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Yes. I don\u2019t do any stock picking, I definitely don\u2019t think I\u2019m interested or educated enough to do that and I feel pretty comfortable where I am at but I am hiring a financial planner to make sure I am diversified enough. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Awesome. So one of the things that I want to touch on is in the years following your debt paid out what is your rate of cash accumulation savings looking like at that point? You know you moved to Denver and your rate went up, what did it look like from that cash flow perspective? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>I think I don\u2019t remember the exact percentage but it was somewhere at a 25% savings rate. And a part of that was going to saving for a down payment because we knew living in Denver was temporary and knew we\u2019d move back at some point to Indi so I knew I needed money for down payment and moving. Honestly just buying nice furniture and setting up a home and still saving on the 15% retirement.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Ok.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>So is your projected retirement date an early retirement date?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>So far I\u2019ve set the goal at 60 which I tell myself well my friends would be retired at 70 so I still have a head start. Right now at this very moment I\u2019ve got thousands and thousands of medical bills coming up this year so I\u2019m saving the max you can save for that. So that\u2019s also a big focus this year. And that I think is not being talked about a lot, medical bills. In this country it\u2019s really going to cut out on your savings rate.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>What are you doing for income right now?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b> I am a full time freelance writer and that\u2019s how I make a 100%<br \/>\nof my income.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Oh that\u2019s awesome.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>That is awesome.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>What\u2019s something about your financial journey that they haven\u2019t heard yet that you think is important to talk about?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>You know it\u2019s sort of what I said earlier, now that I have paid off the debt, someone did the math for me recently of the years I was paying off student loans aggressively we were in an amazing bull market and if I had invested that money, would I actually have more money now, and that\u2019s something that I almost worry about because I have a good friend who just bought a house and he said he\u2019s paying his mortgage off early. Then I said are you saving in an IRA a kind of like a waffle-y answer and I said, he has a 3.5% mortgage interest rate, and I said don\u2019t pay your mortgage off early you should be investing right now.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">He\u2019s a little bit older than me and he doesn\u2019t have anything saved in retirement, you need to be investing. But I now worry that all the stories or me and other people I paid off my loan in 3 to 5 years, I worry that we\u2019re losing the investing portion of it because that\u2019s really important. Because it\u2019s really easy to pay off if you have that capital, you have that desire, and if you have student loans you just send out the check. But to invest you have to have 41K or set up an IRA if you don\u2019t have that employer option.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I think that\u2019s really good advice what you\u2019re talking about is opportunity cost, right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>You\u2019re saying that the opportunity of us choosing one course of action over another may have cost you.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>So single-mindedly, yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Yes so we guessed on our recent episode Craig Curlop. Craig I think he had a very thoughtful approach to the same problem and he\u2019s obviously learned. He decided to house hack first and then he got a second house hack. And now he is speeding to a point where he has a lot of student loans because he went through this thought process that you\u2019re bringing up here where hey house hacking in his mind is a really good, high probability of return but after a certain point it makes sense to his overall portfolio to begin focusing on the guaranteed 6,7% return to go down there. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I think there\u2019s a balanced approach thinking the other way with a low hanging fruit which I can go after with a very small amount of money with high return. And once you get past that now how do I go for that risk free, high interest rate returns. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>And I have to say that I spent, we all spend a lot of time thinking about what we could have done, what we should have done. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">When I called my perspective mortgage collector for a preapproval letter and said this is my income, my husband and I are both self-employed and how much loans do you have and I said none. I mean student loans, auto loans, a credit card balance and I said I don\u2019t have any debt. And he said you have no debt? And I said I have no debt. And I mean that made it so much easier. So hind sight is 20-20. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>And it\u2019s not like you did anything bad. You did a great job. At the end of the day it shows what matters is your savings rate, deploying it somehow. You\u2019re going to get to the finish line and be very well off financially if you have a high savings rate and you deploy in any way that you think is reasonable. You always fiddle back whether you were the most optimal or not, it\u2019s secondary to the fundamentals of what you\u2019re doing.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Well I think you just have to make a decision and stick with it because questioning yourself is not going to change what you did. You\u2019re not going to be able to go back in time and decide to keep your student loans and invest more. So you made a decision and there\u2019s this big debate- do I pay off my mortgage, do I keep my mortgage- well I\u2019m in the keep your mortgage department but I can also sleep at night with a mortgage. If having student loans weigh heavy on you then pay it off because being able to sleep at night is way better than having a thousand dollars in your savings account.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>Sometimes I think someone would ask what would you do with a hundred thousand and I think I could pay off a big chuck of my mortgage but I\u2019d invest it, I\u2019d invest it right now. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>I would too. Ok it\u2019s now time for our famous one. Where can people find out more about you?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>You can find me, I am currently in the process of finishing a rebrand at consciouspoints.com where I teach people to be mindful of their money whether it\u2019s about investing or paying off student loans or whatever they need. If you like to hire me as a freelance writer just look at my portfolio its <\/span><span class=\"s2\">www.zinakumok.com<\/span><span class=\"s1\"> and of course follow me on Twitter and Instagram @zinakumok .<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Ok Zina awesome, thank you so much for your time today. This was so much fun except for the joke that we\u2019re editing out so now everybody\u2019s going to be contacting you what joke did you tell and you can tell them all personally.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Yes ask Zina for her incredibly inappropriate joke.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zina: <\/b>I didn\u2019t write that myself.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>She did warn us it was inappropriate I just didn\u2019t realize the level of the inappropriateness. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Ok from the Fincon Bonus Episode of BiggerPockets Podcast this is Mindy Jensen, Scott Trench and Zina Kumok. Steve is kicking us out so bye!<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<h2>Help Us Out!<\/h2>\n<p>Help us reach new listeners on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/biggerpockets-money-podcast\/id1330225136\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">iTunes<\/a>\u00a0by leaving us a rating and review! It takes just 30 seconds.\u00a0Thanks! We really appreciate it!<\/p>\n<h2>In This Episode We Cover:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>Zina&#8217;s first <strong>orientation with money<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>Why she <strong>started a blog<\/strong> about paying off student loans<\/li>\n<li>How she learned to <strong>budget<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>Why the <strong>anxiety never goes away<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>How people <strong>get into debt<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>What she learned by<strong> buying her first house<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>Where she <strong>invests<\/strong> right now<\/li>\n<li><strong>And SO much more!<\/strong><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Links from the Show<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/finconexpo.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">FinCon<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.daveramsey.com\/show\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Dave Ramsey\u2019s Podcast<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/behaviorgap.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Behavior Gap<\/a>\u00a0(Carl Richards)<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"\/renewsblog\/biggerpockets-money-podcast-35hacking-life-live-almostfree-craig-curelop\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Money Podcast 35 with Craig Curelop<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Books Mentioned in this Show<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/2RFwL5D\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>The Broke and Beautiful Life<\/em><\/a> by Stefanie O&#8217;Connell<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Tweetable Topics:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>&#8220;It&#8217;s scary when you look at the numbers.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22It&#039;s%20scary%20when%20you%20look%20at%20the%20numbers.%22%20BP%20Money%20Podcast%20Bonus%20Episode%20biggerpockets.com\/moneybonus%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;It&#8217;s so rare to find people who are doing all the right things with their finances.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22It&#039;s%20so%20rare%20to%20find%20people%20who%20are%20doing%20all%20the%20right%20things%20with%20their%20finances.%22%20BP%20Money%20Podcast%20Bonus%20Episode%20biggerpockets.com\/moneybonus%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Connect with Zina<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.consciouscoins.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Zina&#8217;s Blog<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/zinakumok.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Zina&#8217;s Personal Website<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/zinakumok\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Zina&#8217;s Twitter Profile<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/instagram.com\/zinakumok\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Zina&#8217;s Instagram<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>An avid listener of Dave Ramsey, Zina quickly determined she did not want to ever be in debt. However, she graduated with $24,000 in student loan debt and made it her mission to pay that off as soon as she could. Every single extra dime she found, she threw at her debt until it was all gone.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":353007,"featured_media":102935,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[6473],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-102934","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-biggerpocketsmoney"],"acf":[],"comment_count":0,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/102934","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/353007"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=102934"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/102934\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/102935"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=102934"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=102934"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=102934"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}