{"id":104483,"date":"2018-12-13T00:02:57","date_gmt":"2018-12-13T07:02:57","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/renewsblog\/?p=104483"},"modified":"2023-02-09T20:42:28","modified_gmt":"2023-02-10T03:42:28","slug":"biggerpockets-podcast-308-from-0-to-400-units-3-5-years-sterling-white","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/biggerpockets-podcast-308-from-0-to-400-units-3-5-years-sterling-white","title":{"rendered":"From 0 to 400 Units in 3.5 Years with Sterling White"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Would your life be positively impacted by owning over 400 rental units? What if you could get there in under four years? On today\u2019s show, we interview <a href=\"\/renewsblog\/author\/sterlingwhite\/\" target=\"_blank\">BiggerPockets contributor Sterling White<\/a>, who has managed to do just that! <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sterling shares how he started his entrepreneurial journey selling Pokemon cards and eventually worked his way up to owning over 150 single family properties (and several multifamilies as well). He also shares how he finds 90-100% of his properties OFF MARKET using a five-step system for finding and closing on them (so simple anyone can do it), as well as the script he uses when speaking directly to sellers. You don&#8217;t want to miss his powerful secret for building rapport with potential leads (by sending a specific puzzle to them in the mail) and how he raises money to close on these properties. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you want to scale your business and want the blueprint for how to do it, don\u2019t miss this powerful episode!<\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/biggerpockets-podcast-real\/id594419649\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Click here<\/a>\u00a0to listen on iTunes.<\/p>\n<h2>Listen to the Podcast Here<\/h2>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https:\/\/playlist.megaphone.fm\/?e=BIGPOC6643575058\" width=\"100%\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h2>Read the Transcript Here<\/h2>\n<div style=\"overflow-y: scroll; max-height: 400px; background: #eee; padding: 20px; border: 1px solid #ddd;\">\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>This is the Bigger Pockets podcast 308. <\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>You\u2019re listening to Bigger Pockets radio. Simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you\u2019re here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you\u2019re in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefitted from BiggerPockets.com, your home for real estate investing online. <\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> What\u2019s going on everyone? This is Brandon, today\u2019s host of the Bigger Pockets podcast. I\u2019m here with my co-host, Mr. David Greene. What\u2019s up buddy? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Not much, dude. I was just about to ask you the same thing. Actually really smoky out here in California. There\u2019s been a couple of wild fires. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Oh yeah, you guys have got the fires. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Luckily, I\u2019m safe but the air\u2019s really bad. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah. Sorry about that. But you know, thank you for all the fire fighters out there putting out those fires. You guys rock. So yeah, today\u2019s show. It\u2019s a good one. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Very good. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>You ready for this? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>We have a very popular contributor on Bigger Pockets named Sterling White. He puts out a lot of blog posts, he makes videos, he\u2019s always educating people. Today, we get to dive a little deeper into the Sterling story, which actually has a nice little ring to it, and find out what he does and how he does it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>We cover everything today from\u2026basically he\u2019s gone to zero to 400, negative net worth to 400 units in three and a half years which is crazy. He talks about how he does that by knowing what he\u2019s good at and knowing what he\u2019s not good at. Also, make sure you guys listen to his rubik&#8217;s cube thing which is incredible. You guys are going to love that, his story about rubik\u2019s cube. And all sorts of good stuff today. So you\u2019re going to like this a lot. Hang tight for that. But before we get into that, let\u2019s get to today\u2019s quick tip.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>As you know last week, we launched the new 30 Days of Good Intentions Journal here on Bigger Pockets. So I want to remind you that if you get the journal on BiggerPockets.com\/Journal before the end of December, you not only get the journal but also access to exclusive online class I\u2019m teaching on productivity. You\u2019re going to love that. <\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>And to remind you also that if you get it before the end of the month, you also get access to your very own intentional mastermind group with three to five other people in the Bigger Pockets community working on their big 90-day goal. I really believe that this mastermind group thing is the most powerful part of this entire thing.\u00a0<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"> <i>And then two more final things before we move on. Number 1, we only printed 5,000 copies of these journals for the first run and they will sell out. I\u2019m a 100% sure. So get yours today if you want it, before the New Year.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>Secondly, you can actually buy this in four packs and save 30%. It\u2019s basically like buy 3 get 1 free for an entire year\u2019s worth of journals, right?<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Because 90 times 4 is almost 365, right?<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>So I challenge you to jump into the journal, jump into the intentional mastermind groups and let\u2019s make the next 90 days of your life the most incredible 90 days ever. Just go to BiggerPockets.com\/Journal. <\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>And that is today\u2019s not-so-quick tip. <\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And with that, let\u2019s get to today\u2019s guest. As we\u2019ve said, today\u2019s guest is Sterling White, an awesome real estate investor. He really knows his stuff.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Crushing it. 400 units in three and a half years. You guys are going to love this. So let\u2019s bring him in. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Sterling, welcome to the Bigger Pockets podcast. Good to have you here. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Oh, yes! Let\u2019s bring the heat, the fire. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>I love it. It\u2019s funny, you and I just met here in person\u2026I don\u2019t know, do we call Skype in person? Whatever this is. But you\u2019ve been doing videos on BP, you\u2019ve been doing blogs, you\u2019ve been around for a while now. But I\u2019m honored to finally meet the man today. So I\u2019m pumped. I\u2019m probably more excited than you are. It\u2019s going to be great. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>No, I\u2019m more excited than you are. I just had to one-up you. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Alright. So we\u2019re going to go to the very beginning of your journey. How did you get started with real estate? What did you do before that? Walk into it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Yes. So this goes back to my early days of childhood. I got into the whole entrepreneurship field in elementary. My first product was selling Kool-Aid to kids around the schools, the classes. And then, Pokemon cards. Ultimately anything that I can get my hands on. Was born and raised here in Indianapolis, Indiana. The not-so-good parts of the city. You can\u2019t walk your dog during the night time or even during the day. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So to fast forward how I got into real estate was ultimately the universe. I had a roommate in college. He was in the construction field and he said, \u201chey, why don\u2019t work alongside me?\u201d. That\u2019s how I got a bug on real estate and fell in love with it ultimately. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Very cool. So tell us about the first deal. What was the very first thing you did with real estate? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>So the very first deal was, I would say, I found this for my mentor, which I would mention to everyone, if you can find a mentor when you get started in the industry, it\u2019s huge. I actually started working for this individual for free. So I found the deal and they brought the capital. Well, he specifically brought the capital and then I retained equity instead of getting myself a wholesale fee. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Interesting. Let\u2019s talk about that. First of all, I want to talk about the whole work for free thing. A lot of people are like, \u201cknow your value\u201d. You know? Know what you\u2019re worth and never work for free. How do you view that? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>I would say, through the course of that I learned so much. I would say probably over a million dollars or two million dollars worth of tuition. People thought I was crazy but there was so much real life experiences that I got from that that I did not get in college whatsoever. So that\u2019s kind of how I viewed it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>So would you advise other people that it\u2019s ok to work for free then? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>I would say, if you can get paid for it, then go that route. But for me, I just wanted to learn ultimately. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Cool, cool. I like it. Instead of a wholesale fee, you negotiated for equity. What does that even mean?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Yes. So it was a $40,000 house in Indianapolis. There are really affordable houses here. I promise you it was not falling over. So with that, I could have taken a fee and sold it to him for $45,000 but instead I told him, hey, I would like to retain 15% equity in this and then you can have the remaining 85. And I was ultimately thinking long term versus short term. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>That\u2019s smart. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>So let me ask you, Sterling. I have a question about that. When you guys decided you were going to get 15% equity, did you drop some kind of operating agreement so you\u2019d understand what if one of you wants to sell it, what if one of you wants to keep it, do you only get paid at the exit, how do you split up the cash flow? Can you tell us about the way you structure that in case someone else wants to do the same thing? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Yes, we did put together, it was a handshake initially but he has the experience of being an attorney and so through that he drafted an operating agreement that in the event that we sell, you get 15% of the profits and then also of the cash flows, you get 15% as well and he\u2019ll get the remaining.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> So do you have an agreement in place with the reserves that you\u2019re going to have to keep and anything above that, you split up the cash flow? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>On that, that\u2019s a great question. I would say this was years ago so I do not know the specific one to that one. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>That\u2019s fine. That\u2019s fine. Often our early deals, we tell the stories on our podcast. One we don\u2019t always remember every detail and that\u2019s fine. But also, they weren\u2019t always done right. If I told my very first property, what I did, you should not do what I did for my very first property or my second or my third or my tenth. You know? We learn throughout our careers and that\u2019s ok. It\u2019s a part of the fun journey that we\u2019re on. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I wonder how did you find that first deal? You mentioned and I missed it or you did not mention that? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Yes, so that first one was actually found through another wholesaler.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And this was 2013 right when I was making the transition from the construction side to more on the investing portion. And through that is when you can actually get good quality deals from wholesalers I would say. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>You say that like you can\u2019t today. What do you mean? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>I would say no. Not from my experiences. More of just over-inflated and construction costs are way under what they\u2019re supposed to be. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>That\u2019s so true. Why are there so many bad wholesalers out there? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>I wouldn\u2019t say stigma, but there\u2019s a lot of people getting into the industry. And there are classes being held on wholesaling. So there\u2019s quite a bit of newbies that just don\u2019t know what they\u2019re doing just yet. But I would say there\u2019s the whole 80-20 principle and maybe even 90-10 principle in this case, to where there\u2019s only actually 10% that are actually the ones making moves and actually providing good deals. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>That\u2019s so true.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Yes and it\u2019s completely unregulated, right? It\u2019s like the wild, wild west in the world of wholesaling. There\u2019s no licensing, there\u2019s no regulation. Anyone can say I\u2019m a wholesaler and what that really means is I\u2019m acting like a real estate agent but I don\u2019t have a license. They give you bad advice. They tell you it\u2019s a 30,000 rehab and it\u2019s a 70,000 rehab. They lie on the ARV and say, oh I didn\u2019t know, I thought it was, here\u2019s the comp, you know, in Bel-Air even though I was in Compton or something. It shows that this is what it should be. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So they can give you a massively inaccurate ARV and there\u2019s no consequences for them if they do. But if it\u2019s a licensed real estate agent and they\u2019re giving you information that completely bad, they can get in trouble for it. But with wholesalers, there\u2019s not.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>You know there\u2019s a lot of people out there that are hungry for deals and then you have wholesalers that are basically trying to learn about real estate investing while making money at the same time, which is very dangerous. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So you have to be extra careful when you vet from a wholesaler. Wholesaling isn\u2019t really a title that mean anything. So you\u2019re right. It\u2019s hard. It\u2019s hard to find deals. It pushes a lot of people to make decisions that are a little bit riskier than they should be. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b> Exactly. And always, just as an investor, do your due diligence. If a wholesaler sends you a deal, just don\u2019t go based upon what they say. You always have to complete your own research. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes, that\u2019s so true. I mean I always tell people about this. In real estate, never trust your agent, never trust your, I mean it sounds bad right? Never trust your wholesaler, never trust your mom. At the end of the day, you are responsible for your financial life. You have to do your math homework. Don\u2019t just take it at face value or what the agent said a property is worth. Ask why is it worth that, show me a couple of examples. Dig into it a little bit. You have to take responsibility. This is my financial future here, I\u2019m going to do the work to make sure it is worth what it is. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>And that might be one of the reasons why you want to work for someone else for free because you can see the way they analyze deals, how they do their due diligence and see the process they go through. And it gives you a better idea on how to do the same. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>And my biggest take away from that was they had, going back to the mentorship, was able to compact 20 plus years of knowledge, education, mistakes into the 2 and a half, 3<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>years of working with that person. It was just huge. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yes. Huge. So what came next? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>So the next deal. And then it basically snowballed from that point to where I was doing some, and this was me figuring it out ultimately, is I was doing wholesaling, I was doing buy and hold, I was doing fix and flips and finally just decided on I\u2019m going to go all the way in on the buy and hold and I just bought one single family and then just kept buying, buying, buying from that point.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>So why did you decide to get into buy and hold? You could be doing flips, wholesales, why the switch? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>The switch was, I\u2019ve seen, if you look at the highly successful, they were<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>ultimately buying and holding and that\u2019s how they build their long-term wealth. There was the tax benefits. And then it\u2019s more of you purchase it, do the rehab, and ultimately, I would say there\u2019s less work when you think of the correlation with the fix and flip, which also on that side is highly taxable versus on the other side, it\u2019s passive income. So there\u2019s not as taxed as it is on the other side.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>That\u2019s very true. So tell us about your first rental property?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>So that first rental property, which I would say was the one I partnered with my mentor, and I\u2019ve learned so much because I was thrown into the fire ultimately. So I did the closing with the title company, I took all the tenant calls that came in, I managed the contractors. It was a complete nightmare, but I learned a lot and absolutely loved it and I would go back and do it again. No, actually, no I wouldn\u2019t. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>It\u2019s one of those I\u2019m glad I did it and it got me to where I am. I would not want to do that one again. That\u2019s the funny thing. Actually way back in the day, I used to ask people that question all the time. What would you do differently if you could go back and change anything? And the answer I usually got is what I give today. I wouldn\u2019t change anything, right? I wouldn\u2019t change anything if I went back and did it again because it got me to where I am. But it doesn\u2019t mean I want to repeat that and I want anybody else to repeat that. Right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So what were some of the things that made that a rough property? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>I would just say mainly because of the amount of work that it needed to do myself. I was managing the contractors and I had no idea what construction was at that time. I knew construction but I did not know how to determine the rehab on a single family residence and how to\u2026and then also managing the contractors, which my skill today is not a manager. So those were the biggest things that I ultimately learned through that process. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>That makes sense. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>I have a question for you, Sterling. You mentioned you\u2019re not a manager and I like that you said that because it shows that you\u2019ve actually thought about what your strengths are and what your strengths aren\u2019t, right? And in my opinion, one of the things that keep people from getting started or progressing to the next level is they don\u2019t feel comfortable and they don\u2019t know why. And you do understand that I don\u2019t like managing so anything that involves me having to manage people, I just don\u2019t want to get into it because I won\u2019t move forward. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So tell me a little bit, A, what your strengths are, and B, how did you change the direction of your business and the types of things you invested in to fit your strengths. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>That is a great point and that\u2019s one thing I wanted to get to as well is be self aware. For myself is, on the financials underwriting is 2+2=200. I\u2019m not a math person whatsoever. And then also operations, I\u2019m messy. So through the course of that, I found a partner who\u2019s superb in that and it compliments those weaknesses because I\u2019m more again on the sales and marketing etcetera. So we were able to basically compliment each other. And I fill those holes which allowed us ultimately to scale our business. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yes. I love that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Where did your business go? What direction did it take?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>So right now I own just a little under 400 units comprised of mostly single family and multi-family. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Wow. So you went from that first deal and you got into a little bit of flipping, wholesaling, rentals. And then 400 units. That\u2019s amazing, right? We got a<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>lot of time to cover all this. I don\u2019t want to pack this up now. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So when did you start doing large, I\u2019m assuming you started with single family houses and you must\u2019ve shifted into multi-family. What does your portfolio look like today? What type of properties do you own, where are they, kind of just a broad overview if<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>you could. And then we\u2019ll go back and dig in and pull out some cool points. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>So it\u2019s mostly C class assets and C<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>plus to B minus neighborhoods. So distress is when we purchase some and then we add the whole value add-through. Our renovations push up the rent. And it\u2019s a mix of 150 of those are single-families and then the remaining, what is it, 249-275 is multi-family. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Wow. That\u2019s a lot of single family houses. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Yes. And why we shifted to multi-family.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b> Yes because that\u2019s a lot. I mean how do you buy a hundred and something single-family houses? People always complain, I can\u2019t get more than four mortgages. I can\u2019t get more than 10 mortgages. How do you get a hundred <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">and fifty-ish of single family houses? Walk us through that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>One is having an abundance mindset. When I got started in the industry I had no credit and negative money in the bank. I actually withdrew my account so that\u2019s how I had negative. So it was also why I partnered and first started with friends and family capital and then bringing investors in to where that\u2019s when we basically did the BER method. So we would purchase the properties ourselves. Again we\u2019re in Indianapolis. Our properties are super affordable. And then we would be all in to them, they we would be cash flowing and then we would bring investors in, cash ourselves out and just go do it again. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>That\u2019s awesome. I really like that a lot. So walk us through this idea of bringing in partners and raising money and that kind of stuff. How have you done that in your career? People struggle with that a lot and you just kind of seem to dominate it. How did you get to do that? Walk us through that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>So it was basically from those initial relationships. Starting with your power base ultimately. Everyone, I would imagine, everyone has a rich uncle somewhere from their family line. Or someone knows someone. Ask something. So it\u2019s just all about starting with your inner circle and branching out. And it ultimately just snowballed from that point on. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So again, you can start with your power base or if you want to extend outside of that, you can attend local networking events that are real estate focused. And then also leverage BiggerPockets.com. It\u2019s a huge source. And you ultimately have to be solving a problem for someone, find a deal, provide great returns. And then someone out there doesn\u2019t have the time to find deals and you\u2019re basically bridging that gap. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yes. That makes sense. So I\u2019m going to ask about family and friends real quick. Some people worry about that, if I want to work with family and friends, first of all,<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>my family and friends don\u2019t have any money, or I don\u2019t want to work with them. What do you say about that? Or should I work with them? How can people cover that? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>I would say that\u2019s just something you\u2019re going to have to overcome ultimately if you\u2019re going to get started. I\u2019ve always just, I never ran into those situations, I\u2019ve always just thought about something and then acted on it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Sure. But people are afraid. People are just terrified. And I, unlike you Sterling, I\u2019m afraid to ask somebody to partner with me. I\u2019m afraid to ask somebody to fund and go into an apartment building with me. What would you say to those people? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>I would say what is the alternative? Not getting or\u2026what\u2019s the alternative? Not going for your dreams or not being able to jump into multi-family to hopefully spark, light a fire underneath them or something. Or find someone or partner with someone who has those resources. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yes. I love that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>So Sterling, one thing you mentioned is that you don\u2019t like to manage projects or people and you don\u2019t like the numbers and the analytical stuff. And yet, you scaled a very big portfolio in a relatively short period of time. So quickly, how long was it that all of this were acquired? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>3 \u00bd years.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>3 \u00bd years. So what roles did you play and how did you use your strengths to drive this thing forward? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>So my drive was on the actual acquisitions side which I really enjoy. The whole mechanism of, we do about 90 to 100% of our deals, I\u2019d say about 100 on off-market side. So that\u2019s my focus, even though we\u2019re acquiring, we\u2019re still utilizing sales. So through that is getting in touch with the decision maker. If they\u2019re not interested, following up with them, getting them in the pipeline and once they are interested in selling, boom, we\u2019re there. We pull the trigger and move forward. And then the other half is the whole front branding side which is basically getting investors in the funnel and they become partners.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> That\u2019s cool. So off market. 90 to 100% of your deals are off market. First of all, can you explain what that means? Can you walk us through what that means and then let\u2019s walk through some of your marketing strategies. What do you do to get leads coming in? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Gosh. So this has got to be my favorite, I would say ultimately my favorite. I just get super jazzed up about it. But it was\u2026by off market, I mean is, on market is let\u2019s say you\u2019re going through a broker or real estate agent and it\u2019s actually listed online. So anyone could actually go there, visibly see it, the details, etcetera, on that asset. Off market is the seller could<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>not even be of interest of actually selling the property. You actually reach out to them.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Ok. So you find people that aren\u2019t necessarily shopping their deals around right away. You\u2019re getting off market. So what are you doing? Direct mail marketing or what are you doing there? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Everything.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Everything. But what does that mean? I love that answer. But let\u2019s dig into that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Or whatever it takes. So the first mechanism is we set up a call system. So that\u2019s the first touch point, cold call. We make indirect mail if we\u2019re having trouble getting in touch with the decision maker or we just want to stay top of mind. And then also, there is the personal visit. Meaning, \u201chey John Smith, I\u2019m going to be in the neighbourhood next Thursday, how about we meet for coffee?\u201d. Half the time, I did not plan on doing that. But prime example is the owners at\u2026 say yes let\u2019s meet up. I\u2019m driving out to\u2026 to meet with them. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>That\u2019s awesome. I don\u2019t know anyone nor had anyone on this show that the first contact is a cold call. So I want to definitely dig into this. I am terrified of cold calling, right? I would rather swim with sharks or something, get bitten by a centipede. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>It works. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Oh man. So what do you, who are you calling? I mean are you picking up the phone book and just going A, the Adams? Who are you calling for this? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>So what we\u2019ll do is, which also I would love to break down the process, because we also have it into three key roles too. Because it was just actually one person which is, oh gosh, it\u2019s an animal. But through that, you find the LLC that owns the property and then you can skip trace that LLC, meaning doing a Google search on it, go to manta.com, betterbusinessbureau.com, etcetera. Find who owns that and then dig to find their contact information and then that\u2019s when you pick up the phone and call them. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>I love that. So what do you say when you call them? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Hey, John Smith, Sterling here. I just purchased 123 Main Street around the corner from yours. I want to personally reach out to you to see if you\u2019d consider selling? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>And they say, \u201cI don\u2019t know, I\u2019m not really in the market.\u201d What do you say? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Sir, I completely understand, however if I can provide you the right price, would you consider on selling?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Well maybe. What\u2019s the right price? You got a number?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>So in order for me to provide an educated offer for you, John Smith, what you can do is provide financials. We can start the underwriting and we\u2019ll have a solid and great offer to you within 24 to 48 hours. Sound good? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Well, sounds alright. Maybe we can meet up later, I can show you the property. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Look at that. Perfect. Exactly. There we go. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>I like it. You\u2019ve got this. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Oftentimes, you\u2019ll get a lot of it and this is why people don\u2019t like the cold calling route is you\u2019ll get kicked in the face quite a bit. So you just have to train<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>yourself to get past those objections when they\u2019re just not interested. Hey, I completely understand. I knew it before you even called. Give me thirty seconds if you don\u2019t like what you hear, I\u2019ll hang up myself. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Wow. I like that. What? Go ahead, David. You take it.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>I was going to say\u2026now I don\u2019t remember what I was going to say. Sterling is taking control of that whole conversation, right? He\u2019s not letting the other person say, what are you calling me for, why are you here, you\u2019re just like all the other telemarketers. That\u2019s what gets you kicked in the face. Right? He\u2019s walking in, taking control, he\u2019s offering him a solution, he\u2019s seeing if there\u2019s interest and if not he\u2019s getting out before you get the chance to kick him. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And then your ego isn\u2019t taking a beating the whole time. Hey, cold calling right? A passive approach for you would be like, \u201cUmm, hi. I kind of want to buy your house but I don\u2019t really know how to ask that. I don\u2019t want to offend you and I don\u2019t want to bring this up. But would it be ok if we talked?\u201d That makes the other person pissed off because now you\u2019re wasting their time. And then they\u2019re going to respond with that negativity. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So I think, like what you said, when you\u2019re getting kicked in the face a lot, you just develop a tough face, and you learn how to see when that kick is coming and you know how to get out of there before it comes. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Yes. And this goes back to my childhood too. I was born and grew up in not so good parts of the city where you wouldn\u2019t want to walk your dogs at night or during the day. So of that environment, again, is where the entrepreneur spirit came from. But I got quite a bit of rejection and had to figure it out ultimately to get things that I wanted. So that just translated into the business world. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yes. That\u2019s so good. Because I really struggle with that idea of calling these people and getting kicked in the face. I really, I don\u2019t know, my personality just can\u2019t handle it. But I like the idea of you\u2019re not calling them to ask for a favor. You\u2019re calling with a real-life solution. Most landlords hate being landlords. Most investors are not out there looking to make their business better. They inherited their property or somehow they got caught up in some scheme or luck or whatever. So a lot of people just absolutely hate being a landlord or owning rental properties. So when you can approach them with a, hey this is what I do, and in fact, my 24-unit that I own in Washington, I had a guy cold call me out of the blue. I ended up selling to him because I was like, yeah you know what, I\u2019m a little tired of this property right now. I want to move into something bigger. I want to change things up. He hit me at the right point at the right time. Was I offended? Of course not. He actually helped me quite a bit to be able to sell that property. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And for him, he just went in there and raised all the rents and making a killing out of it right now. And I\u2019m kicking myself for not raising all the rents, but\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>And the thing on that too is if you\u2019re not interested initially, it\u2019s all sales ultimately even though you\u2019re not buying, you have to implement the follow ups. What the follow up is, is very crucial in terms of, even though you\u2019re buying, this is ultimately selling, so I\u2019m going to drop it to you gently to you guys here, is I send rubik\u2019s cubes to owners and what that rubik\u2019s cube is saying is\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Those little puzzle thingies? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Yes the little puzzle thing. The little small miniature. I thought I had it with me. But it had a small note that says, let\u2019s figure this out. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Dude, I love that. That is awesome. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>At one point, I was called up by the owner and he was, \u201c I cannot get my wife to figure out this rubik\u2019s cube.\u201d And the funny thing is, just staying top of mind because the right timing that you mentioned in case they do decide to sell, they\u2019re going to think of the guy who sent the rubik\u2019s cube. That\u2019s the buyer. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>This is really, really smart. And people, investors have a hard time because they think they\u2019re going to walk in, get one punch, knock out their opponent, get the deal and walk away. And that is just now how life works. Every once in a while, you\u2019ll catch one of those but normally it\u2019s not. They teach us in sales training that follow up is actually more important than lead generation which is what Sterling is talking about. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">If you make the call and they\u2019re not interested, you need to look at it like<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>you swing your ax and it hit the tree. The tree didn\u2019t fall but you made a divot. And that divot will allow the ax to find this hole the next time you swing it. And you never know how many chops it\u2019s going to take but eventually the tree will go down because eventually, that seller\u2019s going to be at a point where they want to sell. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And they teach us this trick in real estate sales where if you want to get a listing or if you want to help a buyer, you need to be one of the first persons they think of when they think about real estate. And they use this example of toothpaste. How many kinds of toothpastes are out there? There\u2019s like fifty different kinds, right? And if you put someone, you hold them, to have to give you a very quick answer, and you say, tell me the first two brands<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>you can think of, everybody says the same thing. They say Crest and Colgate. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Crest and Colgate own the real estate mind share of everybody who thinks about toothpaste. So if<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>you\u2019re walking in the store and you look at different brands that you don\u2019t know, the moment you see your Crest and Colgate, you\u2019re going to grab it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So what Sterling is doing is he\u2019s becoming the Crest and the Colgate to these sellers that reach out to you. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>You should put that on your business card. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Well you do have very white teeth. It would make sense, actually. So yeah, I\u2019m your Crest to your Colgate. So the minute they get like, oh my gosh the tenants are late on their rent again. What? It\u2019s going to be that much money to get this property around. I\u2019m tired of this. I guarantee you, they\u2019re thinking of Sterling right away. Right? I need my toothpaste, he\u2019s my Colgate. That\u2019s what they go with. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And then if you\u2019re not willing to put that work in on that lead follow up, to establish that brand dominance in their mind, you shouldn\u2019t even bother getting started with this because if you think you\u2019re going to lock in there with one swing to take out the tree, this isn\u2019t realistic. The smart ones come up with this system. They develop a funnel and they just chop and chop and chop. And eventually, how many single-family houses do you have, a hundred and fifty or whatever? You\u2019ve taken down how many trees. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Yes. And if you keep going one channel, that seller will get mad and then that\u2019s how you get on the block list. If you\u2019re getting creative on the follow up, they don\u2019t even realize that you\u2019re following up ultimately.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Yes. Which is what that rubik\u2019s cube is, right?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Exactly. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>You came in with the hay maker and he blocked it. And now if you do that again, he\u2019s going to see that again. So instead, you hit them with a hook or a body blow and they didn\u2019t expect that. And now you have a rapport and not getting kicked in the face every time you talk to them. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Yes. Because I\u2019ve just gone through so many hate makers.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>But that\u2019s one thing Brandon won\u2019t do, he\u2019s always trying to protect his pretty face. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>I got to keep the beard, please. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>And then one thing is, if you\u2019re not someone who wants to do cold calls, find someone on Upwork for instance or even Fiber. I would recommend Upwork. For $15-20 an hour that does the qualifying for you and then they set the appointment for you to then close it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> So you mentioned that you\u2019re finding all of these people. You basically gave us five steps. Find an LLC, trace the number, call the owner, propose the solution and then meet the owner if they\u2019re interested. Are you only calling the other investors through their LLC\u2019s because they\u2019re more likely to want to sell or is it easier to find their numbers? Why are you targeting that demographic? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Yes so on our side, we like mom and pop owners. Some of them even have the entity under their personal name so that makes it even easier to do that. But our focus is, I would say, 75 to 125 or 150 apartment complexes and the more you go up the more sophisticated. So we carved out that niche because we feel not only you get more mom and pops, but also through mom and pops, it is more likely to get it off market versus some things let\u2019s say I\u2019ll just go with a broker and get top dollar for it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yes. That makes sense. Alright, let\u2019s talk about the people that you\u2019re buying from. These larger multi-family properties. I mean, again, you say they get sophisticated the higher you get. So is there one decision maker in these deals or is there usually two or three, is it a team? How have you found\u2026the second part of the question is, how big are we talking about here in terms of the property you have and what\u2019s the ownership like on these? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Right now, largest is 80 units. And in terms of the ownership, there\u2019s normally just one decision maker which is the most recent 80-unit that we bought a month ago was one individual. He had multiple partners but he owns majority percentage so we were just going through him and his son actually managed the property and was running it to the ground because he was not a manager at all. It was thrown into the fire because his dad didn\u2019t want to manage it. So that was perfect for our side. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Ok. That makes sense. Ok so let\u2019s shift to financing a little bit. How are you putting the financing together? Do you just pay, I\u2019m assuming, in cash out of your wallet for the 80-unit or maybe not? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Yes, right out of my back pocket. And David gave me money too. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>So how do you do financing? First of all, let\u2019s go back to the time when you were buying single-family houses. You were buying dozens of single-family houses here. How are you putting together money for that and into multi, how are you doing that? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>So I just basically use the same investor network. Just friends and family and also investors that we\u2019ve basically marketed and got into our funnel and provided them value by giving them returns for cash. We took those relationships from the single-family side transactions to the multi-family. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Ok. I love that you said the funnel. What do you mean by that? You got them into your funnel. Some people look at that as kind of a negative thing but if, David Greene knows me, my middle name is funnel. I talk all about them. What do you mean by \u201cyou get people into your funnel and funding your deals\u201d? What does that mean? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>So the way I figure it is or my philosophy in a way is basically be grabbing people\u2019s attention, \u201chey! hey you!\u201d, and through the course of that you have the top of it which is all these people that are interested in your product and then you do the qualifying to find that, ok, this person has the capacity to invest with you. And also, they have the same investment philosophy. They\u2019re not fix and flip, or buy and hold. You get through the course of that, now we have a qualified investor partner. And then that\u2019s when they invest in our deals. That\u2019s how you get them in the funnel. It\u2019s top and then funnelling them down. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>So what are some of the things you say to like \u201cHey! Come into my funnel.\u201d What do you do, are you out there with a sign on the side of the road saying \u201cI\u2019m looking for investors.\u201d? I\u2019m assuming not. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>No there\u2019s an SEC regulation. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes, the government doesn\u2019t like that. The sign on the side of the road. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>But I would say, it\u2019s ultimately being of value and a great book I would recommend, I don\u2019t know, you\u2019d probably like this too Brandon, Jab Right Hook by Gary V. Phenomenal book in terms of that over arching concept is being of value. So through that, Bigger Pockets is a great source. I\u2019ve contributed I\u2019d say over 200 articles in 2 or 3 years. So being of value and in return, people would invest with you.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So there\u2019s that route and then you have to reverse engineer, find out who your ideal investor is. Find out where their eyeballs are, where their ears are and be in position to be of value to them. And that\u2019s how basically they get into your funnel. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yes. I love that. So basically you\u2019re saying you need people to know who you are. And the more people know who you are and what you do, and you do that by blogging on Bigger Pockets and doing Facebook live on Bigger Pockets which you do a phenomenal job at that stuff and making videos. Now more and more people, you\u2019re just teaching, you\u2019re providing good information to people. And the more people know who you are and what you do, they come into your funnel, they go to your website, they visit your site, they see who you are and they sign up maybe for an email list. And eventually they want to end up giving you money. That\u2019s it. Right? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>That\u2019s it. Yes. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>A lot of people wonder, why should I participate on Bigger Pockets? Why should I get involved and why would I get involved in the forums, why would I get involved in the blog, why would I start a member blog? People go to BiggerPockets.com\/memberblogs. Why would I do that stuff? Because it comes back to you. The reason you do those things is because it comes back to you over and over and over. And you\u2019re a perfect example of that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Another buddy of mine, he told me he\u2019s raised 80 million dollars directly from Bigger Pockets members. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling:<\/b> Ok. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Directly from Bigger Pockets members. What? That\u2019s huge, right? Because he\u2019s got a large funnel. He\u2019s on the forum every single solitary day. He\u2019s super active on answering people\u2019s questions. The whole idea is build the funnel, get people to know who you are, you reach out and this is not for the people who are trying to buy 80-unit apartment buildings right? This is for anybody. If you\u2019re trying to buy your first deal, build your funnel.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Exactly. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Through sites like Bigger Pockets or real world networking events or how are you going to get out there? Let people know what you do, have a way to keep track of their information even if it\u2019s just as simple as a spreadsheet. But you can get more complicated like Sierra or Gmail and then just crush it. I love that you said that, Sterling. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>And from a tactical stand point, if you\u2019re just getting started, go on Bigger Pockets, go into forums and provide your story ultimately. And let\u2019s say you get<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>your traction on, you can share that with other people who are where you are. Or who are where you were. And that\u2019s exactly how you can be of value. I mean, it\u2019s a snowball ultimately. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yes. So what about people who have zero experience right now? Should they still try to build that? Any recommendations? Or how do they start building their, so to speak, funnel if they\u2019ve got no experience? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>So the funnel is just going out there and getting your name, being known, being seen. And with that, I mean you guys have some local events. Or there\u2019s local real estate events in I\u2019d say all markets. So getting out there and learning who the movers and shakers are. So there\u2019s that and then again, I just go back to Bigger Pockets because it\u2019s such an excellent resource. I don\u2019t want to take people from that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>I agree. But yeah, meeting people in real life though in such a different way. But if you\u2019re brand new, go to BiggerPockets.com\/Events. We don\u2019t make money off this, it is not a Bigger Pockets sponsored thing. This is just our community gets together from all over the country and they meet for drinks or for conversations or to play golf or whatever. It\u2019s just \u201clet\u2019s do this together.\u201d I use this analogy of real estate is like a hike. We\u2019re all tied together. It\u2019s not a cliff you\u2019re jumping off of.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>You\u2019re on a hike and Bigger Pockets is like a bunch of friends hiking together. It\u2019s like, hey let\u2019s go through this together. Let\u2019s go meet up on this night and go on this cool hike. But instead of hiking we\u2019re sitting in a library talking about real estate. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Yes. And you can learn from other\u2019s mistakes too. And ultimately go through the journey side by side and say, hey what tactic did you use to acquire that deal? Oh, what tactic did you use? And you\u2019d say, this is what I did. And then you can get bits and pieces from different people. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Yes and you can\u2026everybody brings something different to that hike. So you have some people who are really analytical as they are and they can point out all the plans and say well let\u2019s watch out for that poison ivy. Or this is a good route we should take because my math shows this. And other people are natural leaders and can help bring courage when someone\u2019s scared and say let\u2019s go this way, I know how do this. Let\u2019s figure it out. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Everybody has different skills and when you\u2019re all hiking together, it goes better when you combine it. Otherwise you just sit at<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>home and say well, I\u2019m going on a hike but I don\u2019t know how to do this part. So you just don\u2019t make any progress and like Sterling said, you\u2019re not learning from the other people from the hike, you\u2019re not becoming a better hiker. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And when you look at successful people, this is why we always say to take action. It\u2019s not like you take some random action and say you did it just to pat yourself on the back and become one of those Instagram entrepreneurs and takes a picture of Leonardo diCaprio and puts a quote on it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Let\u2019s not go there. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David<\/b>: Yeah, right. It\u2019s taking action that gets you experience and gets you knowledge and that\u2019s what makes you better. That\u2019s what makes you find your way and you end up like Sterling. I don\u2019t like to analyze deals, I don\u2019t like to manage anything, I don\u2019t like a lot of real estate, but I\u2019m involved in 150 single-family houses and 400 units altogether because I found the part of the hike where I\u2019m really good at. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Exactly. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Hey, Sterling, what does your team look like? You must have a pretty\u2026I mean you must have partners in there, employees in there. What does your entire organization look like? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Well we just brought on a new partner who actually runs our property management company. But it\u2019s me, Jacob, who\u2019s the one who does the underwriting, pro-forma financials, loves those spreadsheets, etcetera. And we just brought on another individual who runs with the property management side because formally, when you\u2019re self managing, property management itself is just \u201caaah!\u201d. You see I have no hair because of property management. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>I figured. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>But it\u2019s us three at the top and then we have a construction manager, we have a listing agent, we have a property manager and we have, I would say, 5 to 6 maintenance techs that service all of our communities and also our single-family homes and everything filters up to our chief operating officer who I mentioned was the partner that we just brought on. And then if there\u2019s anything outstanding, huge fires, then it would go to my partner. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Versus before that, everything came to us. So that\u2019s one thing I would mention to people is, if you can, well depending on where you want to scale is, put people underneath you so that you don\u2019t have all that coming up to you making all these decisions that ultimately take energy to deal with. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yes. That\u2019s so good. Alright, dude. I want to shift gears here a little bit and diving deeper into one of your deals. It\u2019s time for the deal deep dive. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Let\u2019s do the deal deep dive here. Sterling, you have a deal in mind, correct? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Yes, I do. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Alright. What kind of a deal is this? Before we get into the specifics of what you paid for it and all that, what is it? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>It is an apartment community. A multi-family. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Alright. So how did you find this property? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>This was found off market, the favorite. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> No. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Yes. So getting in touch directly with the owner of the asset which was one decision maker.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Alright. How big was the property? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>This was 80 units. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>80 units. Alright. So you reached out to this person off market. And, do you remember, actually you might remember, but I actually should\u2019ve asked this follow up question earlier. Are you getting a list of these? Or are you just driving around looking for possible deals? Are you just doing a sort of shot gun approach to a lot of them and just put a rifle in it? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>So that\u2019s how it was initially. Doing the whole driving for hours approach. That\u2019s how we purchased our first one. Now it\u2019s pulling public records of, let\u2019s say, 75-150 apartment complexes in Indianapolis, Indiana. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon<\/b> Ok. Do you know a site to use to pull that or is there a specific resource? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>There\u2019s listsource, is one good one.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>And I have a realtor that I have access to basically their database that they use. Which is, let\u2019s brush over that because I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s\u2026 <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>I don\u2019t know what you\u2019re talking about, Sterling. Alright, next one. How much was it when you bought it? How much did you pay for it? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>That was 3.35 million. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Whoa. 3.35 million. Alright. And how did you negotiate it? Any negotiations that\u2019s part of that? What did they ask for? Walk us through that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Yes. So there was quite a bit of back and forth in negotiation. I would say it takes just as much time to negotiate it and even acquire these larger deals ultimately. Even for the smaller deals. So it\u2019s the same processes ultimately and yes I believe they started at 3.365. At first they weren\u2019t interested in selling at all. So it took multiple follow ups. And then they started at 365. We were starting at way lower at 31. And our underwriting was not as crisp at that time so we looked up the numbers again and I think they came down to, I think, 34. And we settled at 335, contingent upon them replacing the roofs. So we just kind of just slid that in there. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes. I love that. That actually is a really good negotiation strategy too. I love doing this. There I am, when you get down to the price, the final number, add one more. Ok fine we\u2019ll agree to your number but can you just toss on new roofs. Ok, that sounds reasonable.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Exactly. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Good piece of advice. And I use that all the time, when representing sellers or buyers, right? There\u2019s something I don\u2019t understand why people think this way. The number that they\u2019re selling it for means so much more to them than what they\u2019re netting at the end. You can say, ok I\u2019ll agree to your price all I need for you to do is to cover the closing cost and this and this and this. It\u2019s like way more than they\u2019re giving up than the price they\u2019re getting. But they\u2019re just happy to tell their friends I guess that they sold it for the price. So never<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>negotiate the price, always try to negotiate the terms if you can help it and you\u2019ll be way more likely to become successful. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>I love that, David. That\u2019s a gem right there. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>It is a gem. Nicely done. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>I hope nobody listening is an agent I am negotiating against because now they\u2019re going to know exactly what I\u2019m doing.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>They\u2019re like, David I know what you\u2019re up to now. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> That\u2019s funny. But it\u2019s totally true. Alright so you negotiated on the 3.35. How did you fund it? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling:<\/b> That was funded, it was $837,000 we needed to put down. So that was just our family and friends and also investor partners that we used to put that as a down payment. And yes, after that that\u2019s how we started. The remaining was through a bank loan which was a re-course. So I wanted to cuss there but I was on the line ultimately so I would say I was signing on to these re-course loans are a little nerve-wracking at times. But you just got to perform. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yup. Ok. So you got a bank loan on the rest. You got a down payment. So you have of basically syndicating it at this point. What did you do with it? I mean do you just own it today? What did you do with it and then what was the outcome? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Yes. I am actually at the complex now. But it\u2019s ultimately buy and hold. And so our strategy is in 5 to 7 years, I\u2019m actually really fine to pull all our cash out of it and just hold it until we die ultimately. Which I will never die, I will just hold it until the next life.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b> I heard something recently that everybody under 40 are likely to live over 150 because technology will have improved so much by then when we get older they\u2019ll push us longer. And anybody under 12 can live to up to 200. I don\u2019t know much about science. But it\u2019s this article. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>What? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yes. They say that. But who knows? We\u2019ll see. So you might have that property for 150 years. Can you imagine if people lived to up to 150 years and they start investing in real estate at 20? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Yeah. You\u2019re right. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>The inflation possibilities. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>They will be trillionaires just off of real estate. But anyway, totally different point. So the outcome is that. What is your, I don\u2019t want to say outcome because you\u2019re still working on it, but is the plan cash flow completely and hoping more for appreciation on it? What\u2019s it worth today to you, do you think? Or what are you trying to make it worth? Walk us through a little of that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>So we do put in improvements to have it, once it goes to be re-appraised, it\u2019s a higher value and then we pull our own cash out. But our primary focus since we\u2019re in the Midwest is cash flow. So we\u2019re looking at pushing the returns between about 12-14%, cash on cash alone. So that\u2019s our primary focus, is that income side. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Ok. So for those who don\u2019t know, cash on cash return is basically the cash flow that is received compared to how much money you put into it on an annual basis. Right? So if you invested $10,000, you made a thousand dollars in<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>year 1. That would be 10% cash on cash return. Right? So it\u2019s not counting the appreciation, or the loan getting paid off. Not counting all those things. Just cash flow. How much you make in there. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So I think I got that hopefully right. So last question of the deep dive, what lessons have<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>you learned in this? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>So the first one is sales. Even when you\u2019re buying, you have to sell yourself to the seller that you\u2019re the right buyer. So that\u2019s been a huge un-locker for me. And then the other one is find people to compliment your weaknesses which what David was able to allude to earlier. It\u2019s been such a game changer instead of trying to do everything and understand it. It\u2019s just putting people underneath you, fully trust in them, and then run with it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>That\u2019s great. That\u2019s perfect. Alright, I love it. Well that was the end of the deal deep dive. Now let\u2019s head over to the fire round. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>It\u2019s time for the fire round. <\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Alright. This is time for the world-famous fire round. And of course these current questions come directly out of the Bigger Pockets forums which you can get at BiggerPockets.com\/Forums. Big shock there. Alright, I got through that. Good. I screw that up about 40% of the time.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>People don\u2019t know that because we edit the podcast and literally every week, I mix up fire and famous four. And sometimes deep dive. It\u2019s a mess. Anyway. Alright. It\u2019s not like I\u2019ve done 300 episodes of this, no. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Oh, fire round. Let\u2019s do it. Question number 1 from the Bigger Pockets forums. Let\u2019s see. I just came back from an event where I got to meet tons of successful people doing syndications, like big apartment syndications. My question is, should I invest in a passive deal first? Like before I go and try to do my own, should I put money with somebody else? Or should I just do my own syndication and just raise the money? What do you think? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Gosh. So there\u2019s many approaches. My first one is investing in someone to help understand the process. Yes that is a great and phenomenal approach. Or with that is finding a local syndicator and let\u2019s say you do have, you go out and find your first deal. You may have to offer up some equity but get an experienced operator on your side. So they run the deal and you really get in the trenches to really understand what\u2019s going on in the workings. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>That is a fantastic answer. A lot of people that join syndications put money into syndications. I put money into a syndication earlier this year, Ben Leibovitz right? So I put money into his\u2026But I\u2019m not following that closely. I\u2019m not learning that much about what he\u2019s doing because it\u2019s purely passive for me, right? <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>But if I would have been like, hey I want to partner with you off this deal, let\u2019s do this together. I would have learned a whole lot more. So I see both sides of it. If you want passive, great. But if you want to really learn, I love that idea of maybe trying to find a way to learn out of it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling:<\/b> That\u2019s how I get my first single-family. I mean it wasn\u2019t a syndication but it was, I brought the deal to someone and said, hey want to buy some equity even though it was a little miniscule, you have to think long-term.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Being a limited partner in a syndication deal like this gives you an opportunity you don\u2019t have in other forms of investing. You can\u2019t buy stocks at Apple and earn a right on the board of director\u2019s table where they go over exactly what their marketing plan is and meeting with their engineers and learning how operators run the company. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">If<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>you\u2019re a limited partner in a real estate deal, you do get to see all that. You can talk to the general partner, you can see the operating agreement and the MM. You can learn a lot by investing in that deal and have it be passive. So, people lose that value if Brandon Turner because you don\u2019t really want to learn because you can make money in other ways, that\u2019s fine. But if you\u2019re a normal human being and isn\u2019t like a god amongst men, take advantage of that opportunity to learn. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Wow. Yeah, I think that\u2019s good. And I think I should learn more. I actually should read more documents that come out every month. And you know, how the deal\u2019s doing and start asking more questions. But, I\u2019m like\u2026I like the passive income, right? It\u2019s just different people, different paces in their lives. If I was doing that with a mobile home park, which is my real passion right now. I love mobile home parks. I\u2019m way more involved in those conversations with people because it\u2019s my big passion. So, you know. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Is there a more public thing to say than my passion is mobile home parks? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>I have never heard that before. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>I just need to get me an RC Cola, a moon pie, and looking at mobile home parks and I\u2019ll be a happy man. Alright. Sterling, next question. What do you believe are the pros and cons or benefits\/risks of investing in multi-family versus residential rental properties? Maybe they\u2019re asking to figure out which one they should try to get into. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>I would say both have their pros and cons. It just basically comes down to where you want to go. On the multi-family side, what I believe, well it\u2019s true in a way too, is determine what the value of the asset is because things trade based upon income specifically net operating income. On the single family side, it\u2019s more of what 123 Main St. so far across the street. I think the pro about that deal is, you have multiple exits. You can sell it to an investor, you can sell it to a homeowner. So you have those multiple routes versus on the multi-family side, literally you\u2019re just selling to an investor whether that\u2019s a larger institution or an individual. But I just see so many more benefits with a multi-family. Tax benefits, scalability, and that\u2019s why the shift ultimately was made on that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Alright. Question number three, can you wholesale multi-family properties? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Yes, you can. I had a fellow colleague that wholesaled a deal. It didn\u2019t work for our numbers so he sold it to someone where it worked for them. He made a 6-figure profit on that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Wow.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>You get hit with the taxes, but still. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yes. Because when you\u2019re wholesaling, that\u2019s not a passive income. You are an active, self-employed business owner getting hit from multiple directions. That\u2019s actually a really good point. We never talk about that on the show. I don\u2019t think we ever talk about the tax differences of rental, flipping and wholesaling. But there are massive differences between them. Not that one\u2019s better than the other necessarily but you should be aware of that. If you make $50,000 from cash flow or you make $50,000 from a wholesale fee, you keep very different amounts of money at the end of the day. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Yup. Exactly. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Anyway.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Ok. Next question. Now this is along the same vein that we\u2019ve been going on. Multi-family versus single-family. What expenses should I consider when analyzing an apartment complex? Is it basically the same thing as a small multi-family, which I think they mean a 2, 3, 4 unit? And do you just take the extra units into account for the apartment or is it more complicated?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>More complicated and even more complicated for me because my partner deals with that side of things. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>I love that by the way. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>But I would say, what we tend to do is on a per unit basis when determining what the expenses are going to be versus just a rule of thumb saying ok, we\u2019ll be able to run this C class asset at 50% expense ratio. It\u2019s best to actually break it down per unit. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Ok. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Ok. What about you, Brandon, because you\u2019ve done both. What do you think is the difference between the way you\u2019re analyzing the properties? I\u2019ve asked Andrew Kushman about it and do you just use the 1% rule at all? When you\u2019re in a multi-family, he\u2019s like, no it would never work. It\u2019s just too complex to boil down to something that simple. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yes. Let\u2019s just say you\u2019re going to have to use a lot less rules of thumb and you\u2019re going to rely a whole lot more on your calculator or spread sheet, whatever you use to run those numbers. The nice thing is you can kind of generalize some stuff a little bit. Like, you know, I\u2019m trying to think of an example. Like vacancy is percentage overall and he should actually average that. And it\u2019s actually a very predictable number based on the past or based on the market in the area, right? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">A single family home, if I have a crappy property manager, and that\u2019s empty for three months out of the year, that\u2019s a 25% vacancy rate. So I just put that number in there, right? But for an apartment, I can probably put in a pretty accurate number on vacancy rate based on data that\u2019s available from all the other apartments in the area especially if it\u2019s a larger area. So that\u2019s one thing nice about multi-family but there are a lot of moving parts. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But I find that there\u2019s a little less, it\u2019s more complicated but, Sterling, you can tell me if you agree with this or not, but I think it\u2019s more complicated but more accurate to get a good number than I found on my single families. Less variables that could just drastically blow thing out of the water. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>I would think so. I agree. Yes. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Cool. Because I mean, one tenant who trashes your single-family house will kill four years of cash flow. But one tenant who trashes one unit in a<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>large apartment complex, well that\u2019s just assumed. Like it\u2019s going to happen. It\u2019s part of your numbers. And it just kind of all averages out. So. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Or if you\u2019re in Chicago, and you have to evict a tenant, and it takes up to 6 to 7 months to get him out. Oh gosh. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yes. It kills it, right? That actually goes back to the question of the pros and cons of multi versus larger versus single family. I mean again, there\u2019s not one best method, but these are things that everyone should be aware of. When you\u2019re getting into it, it goes back to focus. Just focusing on something. You chose single family, then you focus on multi-family. Because you got to know these things. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Anyway, alright. Last question of the fire round, I only want to do four questions but I really want to ask you this one. So I bought, held and sold duplexes before but I\u2019m looking into owning a larger apartment building. What are the main things that I should be aware of<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>or watch out for as I get into these much larger properties? Anything that stands out to you Sterling? Like, ok this is something that you should definitely know. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>I would say the people you bring on board tend to be more sophisticated, your investor partners. So that goes down to preferred returns, which we can go into discussion, did you want me to go into what preferred return is? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Sure. Give us a quick definition because it\u2019s important.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Yes. So a preferred return is a promise in a way that let\u2019s say it\u2019s 8%<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>needs to go to your partner first in order for you to start earning money. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> It\u2019s weird to explain but yeah, I think you\u2019re right. They have to earn their 8% before you start making money as a syndicator. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Exactly. And so with that, you just have to be conscious of the more partners you bring on, the more sophisticated. And also, when you\u2019re scaling up to larger, I would say things tend to be a little bit easier in terms of on the management side. So just be sure to get someone on board who has the experience of managing larger multi-family versus the smaller size. Two completely different sets. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Well you\u2019ve got a lot more capital and cash flow moving through this whole thing, it allows you to leverage more the things that you normally do to manage the property to somebody else. So, on one hand, you can get some stuff off your plate. But on the other hand, it means it\u2019s that much more important for you to get good people. Right? So the stakes are higher on both sides. It could be a much better investment, is your way to go or you can lose a ton of money because you put the wrong people in place. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Whereas when you\u2019re doing single family, it\u2019s mostly you making all the decisions because there\u2019s just not enough cash coming off of it for you to afford yet property management and analyzers to look in over the deal and people helping you raise funds. Having more hands in the pot can be a good thing or a bad thing. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">That\u2019s what I would probably say before you start to scale on to multi-family, make sure that some of your business skills are sharpened. Know the right partner, know what role you\u2019re playing. When you\u2019re doing single-family, it\u2019s kind of a mom and pop thing. You can do everything. You can be like Brad picking up toilets full of crap and carrying them out of the house yourself, right? You\u2019re not going to be doing that in a multi-family with 80 units. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Yes. The foundations. You got to have the foundation. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Very good. There you go. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Great. Alright, well let\u2019s go over to the last segment of the show. It\u2019s the end of our fire round. So let\u2019s head over to the world-famous, famous 4. Let\u2019s get to these questions. Number 1, Sterling, what is your favorite real estate-related book? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>I would, Multi-family Millions by David Lindhall. I believe that\u2019s how you pronounce his last name. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Awesome book. I have that one. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling:<\/b> It\u2019s very elementary. And it goes on some high level but it wasn\u2019t boring and bland so that\u2019s what I really enjoy about it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Alright. Ok. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>What is your favorite business book? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling:<\/b> Business book. So I\u2019m actually going to take a little shift on here if you guys don\u2019t mind. So I want to go audio book, which would be by Earl Nightingale so I\u2019m taking it way back before Tony Robins and probably before Zig Rome. But it\u2019s called Lead the Field. And I would say this ultimately really shaped my mindset. I was actually listening to the CDs. I would listen to the CDs so much that it kept scratching. But it was a very, yeah. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>It\u2019s like me and the Britney Spears and N\u2019Sync era, you know? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Backstreet Boys. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>For those who actually hang out with Brandon, he does spend an exorbitant amount of time singing songs from Justin Timberlake. He loves that song from Trolls. He\u2019s definitely, you do love your music. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>I do love my music. Alright, so Earl Nightingale. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Next question. Ok. What are some of your hobbies, Sterling? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Hobbies is I really enjoy learning. So reading books, I know that\u2019s pretty boring. I work a lot. And spending time with family specifically my little angel who is me with a bunch of hair, which is my daughter.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>How old? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>She is 6 going on 17. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>That\u2019s awesome. Alright, my final question of the day, Sterling, what do you think sets apart successful<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>investors from all of those that give up, they fail or they just never get started? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>I believe two things. The first one is mindset. Two things. The first one is mindset. So let\u2019s say for instance, right now the market is very tight in terms of being able to find quality deals. Those who have an abundance mindset are still out there making things happen versus those who are on scarcity, is hey I\u2019m just going to wait on the sidelines until the market\u2019s right. But when the market is right, they\u2019re still going to be on the sidelines. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So that\u2019s the biggest thing. It\u2019s just the mindset. And then the second one is motivation. So what drives someone ultimately. Me is just being an ideal for the people that came from my neighbourhood that you don\u2019t have to take this route of crime and going to prison, etcetera. Here\u2019s the path that I took. And then ultimately, I\u2019m not going to be on this planet forever. We all have a certain amount of time on this planet, so we might as well just go after our dreams and goals ultimately. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Dude, that was so good. I\u2019m totally going to take that last minute and make it an Instagram video and put it all over social media because it was so good. You are Instagrammable, you know Quotestagram, you know #qoutestagram? Anyway. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Can you Photoshop a Lamborghini in the back? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Of course I will. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Or a jet. A Lamborghini in front of a jet with Sterling in front of that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Oh my gosh. With pretty women around. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Lots of women. Of course. You have to. A yacht would be a good add in there. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>A yacht behind the plane. Wow we\u2019re going on three levels of douche deep here. That\u2019s exactly what Instagram has turned into. Ok, on that note, Sterling, where can people find out about you? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>So one is syndicationpro.com. That\u2019s one way. But also, again, going back to BiggerPockets.com. Go ahead, if you have questions or anything, just slide into the DM and I will be of value to you ultimately. DM is direct message by the way. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Direct message for those on the DL. Anyway, Sterling this has been fantastic. Thank you so much. Really, you are an inspiration. I love learning from you. I love seeing your Facebook live and your blogs and all that stuff. You\u2019re a huge help to the Bigger Pockets community. You\u2019ve helped tens of thousands of people. So keep it up. And I know people are going to love this episode. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Of course people can reach Sterling and ask questions on the show notes on this page at BiggerPockets.com\/Show308. Again, BiggerPockets.com\/Show308. And they can reach Sterling there. Dude, we\u2019ll talk to you later. Thank you so much. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Sterling: <\/b>Awesome. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Alright, that was our show with Sterling White. Thank you everybody for listening. Thank you for being a part of the Bigger Pockets community. Make sure you guys are leaving us ratings and reviews in Itunes. If you\u2019ve not done so, we have I don\u2019t know 4,000 reviews at this point. But we get 300,000 people every week to listen to the podcast. So by next week, I want 300,000 reviews even if the reviews are like, man, Brandon sucks. David\u2019s awkward. Doesn\u2019t matter. Leave us a review. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And I don\u2019t know. What\u2019s up, David? Do you agree? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b> I think that sounds great. I think they should be following us on YouTube, on Instagram, Facebook or wherever we are.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>If you want to accomplish what someone else has accomplished, the best thing you can do is start all of the steps you see them taking. Now Sterling gave us some really good advice. This is what I did, this is how I did it. You can follow it. It\u2019s the same thing I do when I see somebody who\u2019s successful and I want to be like them. I just start looking at their website, looking at what they do and copying it. So that would be the best advice that I could give for everybody. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">You have anything else, Brandon?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>No that\u2019s really good. And like you said, Sterling does a lot of Facebook live. So if you want to be alerted to those, just go to the Bigger Pockets Facebook page, Facebook.com\/BiggerPockets, follow Bigger Pockets there and you\u2019ll get notified of those Facebook lives that Sterling does, that I do, that David Green here does. And with that, we got to get out of here. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Brandon is beardyBrandon and I am DavidGreen24 on Instagram. And with that being said, this is David Green for Brandon, I\u2019ve got a song in my heart, Turner, signing off. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>You\u2019re listening to Bigger Pockets radio. Simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you\u2019re here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you\u2019re in the right place. 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I\u2019m talking anything from high rises in D.C. to multi-families in L.A. \u2014 institutional-quality stuff. And each project is carefully vetted and actively managed by Fundrise\u2019s team of real estate pros.<\/p>\n<p>Their\u00a0 high-tech, low-cost online platform lets you track the progress of every single project, and keep more of the money you make. Oh, and by the way, you don\u2019t have to be accredited.<\/p>\n<p>Visit\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/fundrise.com\/biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Fundrise.com\/biggerpockets<\/a>\u00a0to have your first 3 months of fees waived.<\/p>\n<h2>Fire Round Sponsor<\/h2>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-77567 alignright no-display appear\" src=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/03\/simplisafe.png\" alt=\"simplisafe\" width=\"271\" height=\"58\" title=\"\">If you\u2019ve been thinking about getting a <strong>SimpliSafe\u00a0<\/strong>&#8211; Home Security System, but have been<br \/>\nwaiting for the holidays when all the tech deals come out\u2014you\u2019ve made a smart move! If you go to <a href=\"http:\/\/simplisafe.com\/biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">SimpliSafe.com\/biggerpockets<\/a>\u00a0you\u2019ll get 25% off any new system. That\u2019s an amazing deal.<br \/>\nThey rarely do anything like this but they\u2019re doing it just for us!<\/p>\n<h2>In This Episode We Cover:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>How Sterling <strong>got into real estate<\/strong>, working for free just to learn<\/li>\n<li><strong>Negotiating equity<\/strong>: What is it?<\/li>\n<li>Why you possibly shouldn&#8217;t go <strong>the wholesaling route<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>The benefit of <strong>focusing on your strengths<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>How to work with your <strong>family and friends<\/strong> and branching out from there<\/li>\n<li>How he <strong>finds deals<\/strong>\u2014cold call mixed with direct mail<\/li>\n<li>Why he sends <strong>Rubik&#8217;s cubes<\/strong> to prospects<\/li>\n<li>Tips for creating a <strong>network of investors<\/strong> by building a funnel<\/li>\n<li>What his <strong>team<\/strong> looks like<\/li>\n<li><strong>And SO much more!<\/strong><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Links from the Show<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/forums\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Forums<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/investment-calculators\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Calculators<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/events\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Events<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.mentor.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Mentor<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.bbb.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Better Business Bureau<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Blog<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/facebook.com\/biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Facebook Profile<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"\/renewsblog\/2014\/03\/13\/investing-multifamily-ben-leybovich\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Podcast 061: How to Succeed in Multifamily Investing \u2013 A Unique Conversation with Josh, Brandon, and Ben<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"\/renewsblog\/2016\/04\/14\/bp-podcast-170journey-flipping-houses-owning-1470-units-andrew-cushman\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Podcast 170: The Journey From Flipping Houses to Owning 1,470 Units with Andrew Cushman<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Youtube Channel<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.upwork.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Upwork<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/fiverr.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Fiverr<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.listsource.com\/homepage\/index.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">ListSource<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/beardybrandon\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Brandon&#8217;s Instagram<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/davidgreene24\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">David&#8217;s Instagram<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Books Mentioned in this Show<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/store.biggerpockets.com\/products\/the-intention-journal\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>90 Days of Intention<\/em><\/a> by Brandon Turner (Journal)<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/2UEzfT9\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook<\/em><\/a> by Gary Vaynerchuk<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/2C9DO0H\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>Multi-Family Millions<\/em><\/a> by\u00a0David Lindahl<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/2LdA29x\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>Lead the Field<\/em><\/a> by\u00a0Earl Nightingale<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Fire Round Questions<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/forums\/432\/topics\/637749-apartment-syndicating-deal-sponsor-or-passive\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Should you invest in a passive deal first or jump straight in to being a deal sponsor?<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/forums\/311\/topics\/636181-multifamily-vs-single-family-rental-properties\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">What do you believe are the pros\/cons or benefits\/risks of investing in multifamily and residential rental properties? <\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/forums\/93\/topics\/637301-multi-family-wholesaling\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Can you wholesale multifamily properties? <\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/forums\/432\/topics\/637447-analyzing-apartment-deals\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">What expenses I should consider when analyzing an apartment complex?<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/forums\/311\/topics\/636880-finding-a-deal-on-an-apartment-complex\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Does anyone have any creative ways to target owners of apartment complexes to try and complete a deal? <\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Tweetable Topics:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>&#8220;You just have to train yourself to get past objections.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22You%20just%20have%20to%20train%20yourself%20to%20get%20past%20objections.%22%20BP%20Podcast%20308%20biggerpockets.com\/show308%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Share your story to other people who are where you were.&#8221;\u00a0(<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22Share%20your%20story%20to%20other%20people%20who%20are%20where%20you%20were.%22%20BP%20Podcast%20308%20biggerpockets.com\/show308%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;If you can&#8217;t negotiate the price, negotiate the terms.&#8221;\u00a0(<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22If%20you%20can&#039;t%20negotiate%20the%20price,%20negotiate%20the%20terms.%22%20BP%20Podcast%20308%20biggerpockets.com\/show308%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Everything is selling. Even when you&#8217;re buying, you still have to sell.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22Everything%20is%20selling.%20Even%20when%20you&#039;re%20buying,%20you%20still%20have%20to%20sell.%22%20BP%20Podcast%20308%20biggerpockets.com\/show308%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;We all have a short amount of time on this planet, so might as well go after your dreams and goals ultimately.&#8221;\u00a0(<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22We%20all%20have%20a%20short%20amount%20of%20time%20on%20this%20planet,%20so%20might%20as%20well%20go%20after%20your%20dreams%20and%20goals%20ultimately.%22%20BP%20Podcast%20308%20biggerpockets.com\/show308%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Connect with Sterling<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/users\/SterlingW\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Sterling&#8217;s BiggerPockets Profile<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/syndicationpro.co\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Sterling&#8217;s Company Website<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Would your life be positively impacted by owning over 400 rental units? What if you could get there in under four years? On today\u2019s show, we interview BiggerPockets contributor Sterling White, who has managed to do just that!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":17340,"featured_media":117601,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[4565],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-104483","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-biggerpockets-podcast"],"acf":[],"comment_count":0,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/104483","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/17340"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=104483"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/104483\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/117601"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=104483"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=104483"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=104483"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}