{"id":108721,"date":"2019-03-18T00:02:33","date_gmt":"2019-03-18T06:02:33","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/?p=108721"},"modified":"2023-04-26T22:51:49","modified_gmt":"2023-04-27T04:51:49","slug":"biggerpockets-money-podcast-64-scholarships-ways-pay-college-zach-gautier","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/biggerpockets-money-podcast-64-scholarships-ways-pay-college-zach-gautier","title":{"rendered":"Scholarships and Other Ways to Pay for College with Zach Gautier"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><strong>Zach Gautier<\/strong> oversees academic and college counseling at a Denver-area high school. He reached out to us, and proposed a show to share creative ways to fund college tuition\u2014and blew us away with the depth of his knowledge!<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This episode is for anyone who has children who have not yet graduated from college. And if you know someone else who can benefit from this information, please share it with them, too!<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This show includes tips that apply to kids of every age, from elementary school to middle school to high school students. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We cover multiple ways to reduce higher education costs, such as transfer credits, AP courses, and CLEP tests, along with early college programs and dual credit options. \u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">We also discuss work-based scholarships and military options, as well as preparation for high school that starts in grade school. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Zach shares his advice on taking the ACTs or SATs and also ways to decide which one to take (and whether to retake if you get a low score).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This episode can help shave tens of thousands of dollars off your child\u2019s college expenses! <\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/biggerpockets-money-podcast\/id1330225136\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Click here<\/a>\u00a0to listen on iTunes.<\/p>\n<h2>Listen to the Podcast Here<\/h2>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https:\/\/playlist.megaphone.fm?e=BIGPOC8049654748&#038;light=false\" width=\"100%\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h2>Read the Transcript Here<\/h2>\n<div style=\"overflow-y: scroll; max-height: 400px; background: #eee; padding: 20px; border: 1px solid #ddd;\">\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>Welcome to the BiggerPockets Money Podcast, show number 64 with Zach Gautier from Triple Fit College Counselling.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>Really helping your child figure out school and really figure out a love for school early on, it sounds like a basic thing. And it doesn\u2019t necessarily sound like financial advice. But the rewards that it reaps for six years later as the students look into college, it really is profound.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>It\u2019s time for a new American dream, one that doesn\u2019t involve working in a cubicle for 40 years barely scraping by. Whether you\u2019re looking to get your financial house in order, invest the money you already have or discover new paths for wealth creation, you\u2019re in the right place.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>This show is for anyone who has money or wants more, this is the BiggerPockets Money Podcast.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> How\u2019s it going everybody? I\u2019m Scott Trench and I\u2019m here with my co-host Miss Mindy Jensen. How are you doing today Mindy?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> I\u2019m doing fantastic Scott. I am so excited for today\u2019s show. I know I say this every week but this one I really am excited for this guest. Outside of Richard Marcus from Pay Checks and Balances, this is a show I was most looking forward to recording and the one that I am most excited to share with our listeners. Today\u2019s guest like you said is Zach Gautier from Triple Fit College Counselling.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">He reached out to me a couple of months ago and he wanted to share some tips for financing college. And when he reached out to me he gave me just a list of tips that I\u2019ve never heard before. And granted I haven\u2019t been in college since you were a baby Scott but, my oldest is 12 and it hasn\u2019t come up before. But she is 12. So it\u2019s going to come up and it\u2019s going to come up in a big way.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And I don\u2019t have a 529 plan, I know I\u2019m a terrible financial independence seeker because I don\u2019t have all these things optimized. So this show was hugely helpful for me, and it\u2019s going to be hugely helpful for anybody who has kids who\u2019ve not yet graduated from college. It\u2019s going to be most helpful for people in a similar situation to where I am, where their kids haven\u2019t started high school or are just starting high school.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But there\u2019s tips in here for people with kids in high school and college as well. This is the episode to bookmark and listen to with your kids before they start high school. It\u2019s the episode to listen to with your kids when they\u2019re in high school. And it\u2019s the episode to share with your kids even if they\u2019re already in college.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Yeah I love it. I mean one of the things to note before you listen to the episode is that this is all about the college planning process and figuring out how to set yourself up for success to one get into a good college, two, get a potential merit scholarship. And then three fund college as efficiently as possible from there and a bunch of tips and tricks about that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So if that\u2019s not applicable to you, this may be one that you can pass over and come back next week, or listen to and share with somebody who it is going to be relevant to. But we want to give you fair warning that this is a very specific audience. And if you\u2019re in your 20s and not going to have kids, this may not be applicable to you.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> So share with somebody, don\u2019t just say don\u2019t listen Scott, share with somebody that this could work with.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Well of course it\u2019s a great episode. It\u2019s going to provide a lot of value, right. I don\u2019t have kids, it\u2019s very valuable to me because when I do have kids, then I will apply this learning.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Yeah this was fabulous and we\u2019re going to get a note from today\u2019s show sponsor and then we\u2019re going to jump in with both feet with Zach. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Sounds great. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>So today\u2019s show sponsor is Blinkist. I love this app because there are so many great business books that I want to read and I don\u2019t have the time for them all. But Blinkist solves this problem for me in that the app takes the need to know information from the thousands of nonfiction books and boils it down into just 15 minutes of reading or listening.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>I use Blinkist to read the classics like Rich Dad Poor Dad or the 4-Hour Work Week and you can also finish books like four books a day, when you\u2019re on the go getting things done, it\u2019s made for people like us. So eight million people are using Blinkist right now, I use it and its library is growing. Blinkist offers books that have been recommended on this very show like Pitch Anything, Lean Startup and Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. <\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>Plus there are a few new titles like Michelle Obama\u2019s memoir Becoming. So after you\u2019re done with this episode, head on over to Blinkist, start a free seven day trial on us. Go to blinkinst.com\/biggerpockets for a free link. Let me spell that out for you; B-L-I-N-K-I-S-T.com\/biggerpockets. Or go there and start your seven day trial today.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>Okay so you want to build passive income. You like the idea of real estate but you\u2019re thinking, who has time to haggle with sellers or manage contractors? Well Roofstock can help. It\u2019s the #1 market for buying and selling single-family rental homes. We\u2019re talking about cash flowing properties across the United States. So if it\u2019s too expensive in your own backyard, Roofstock\u2019s got you covered.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>They connect you with vetted property managers, and all properties are backed by their industry leading Roofstock guarantee. So you can invest remotely with confidence. Why wait any longer to begin building your passive income stream? <\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>Roofstock could be your first step on the path to financial independence. To sign up for a free account and start browsing cash flowing rental homes, visit roofstock.com\/bpmoney. That\u2019s R-O-O-F-S-T-O-C-K.com\/bpmoney. Create your free account today.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay. Huge thanks to today\u2019s show sponsor. Dr. Zach Gautier from Triple Fit College Consulting, welcome to the BiggerPockets Money podcast. How\u2019s it going today?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Wonderful. Thank you so much for having me. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Thank you so much for being here. Like I said in the intro I am super excited to bring this guest on today because Zach reached out to me to- gosh it\u2019s been 100 years since you reached out. But you sent me this note about how to pay for college for people who aren\u2019t actually in college yet and even not in high school yet in some cases. And this was just so interesting I\u2019ve got a 12 year old, so I do have to start thinking about paying for college. Why don\u2019t we start off with how you paid for college Zach?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah. Absolutely. For some reason the way that my mind\u2019s wired I hate wasting time. So as I started looking at my own undergraduate and what I wanted to do, started finding a couple of unique ways to expedite that process. And so went through it like many kids do today, ended up taking some AT courses.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But more importantly I ended up doing a semester or a college campus before I went to the actual college as part of my high school. So ended up going into undergrad carrying like 24 credits into college. And then I found out about this kind of magical thing called the CLEP test where you can just take a test and they give you a college credit. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And I\u2019m like I like that more than studying the classes. So ended up CLEPing out of like another 36 hours of my undergrad. And so because of that, ended up graduating a year early and could have really graduated in two and a half years but stretched into three. And just started to realize that by having levels of efficiency in how you approach undergraduate, you can save an incredible amount of money.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So that really birthed that ending of that desire and then over the last 15 years I\u2019ve worked in high schools, worked with families and have just been able to walk alongside families that have been going through their own journey and trying to share some of this information with them so that hopefully they can dive into the things that they really want to learn about very quickly. And hopefully that that\u2019s a benefit for them both in time and in money.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> That\u2019s awesome. And we\u2019re very lucky to have you because you\u2019ve devoted so much of your career and time and energy and thought and passion into helping people make college more affordable and prepare themselves for that, right. Would you mind starting off on what are some of the first things you should be thinking about if your child is maybe just coming into high school or about to start this planning process?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah absolutely. So part of the reason that I reached out to Mindy in the first place is just because I think a lot of times, families hear these kind of unicorn type stories where this student dedicates a year of their life. They find a million dollars through all these scholarships and that transforms their lives. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And while that is an option and that is an approach that people can take and realize benefit from it, the reality is I think there\u2019s a more systematic approach that can start to really transform college options. And one of those biggest factors that can happen is to make effective choices in students elementary and middle school years.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So that then when they get into high school, they\u2019re really putting themselves in the best positon possible. So a couple of thoughts that I had is if a student is before high school age, the reality is that the money that\u2019s given and the scholarships that are given to students, the vast majority of that money is really dictated on two things; a student\u2019s reading and English ability and then their math\u2019s skills.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So if we think about that and kind of reverse engineer where we want a student to be at 18 and when they\u2019re receiving financial aid, all of that starts in really early elementary. And so it sounds so simple but one of the best financial choices that somebody can make is usually to take time to read with their student.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And when they\u2019re with them and being able to birth in them this desire for lifelong learning and being able to really engage in school because the student that is successful in those early years, statistically it shows they\u2019re going to be in a really strong place and in a place of a lot of options once they get to their high school years.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So establishing that incredibly solid academic foundation in those early periods and being a parent that\u2019s invested in that, and really helping to guide that early skill. And if there is a challenge, different kids learn differently and there\u2019s different struggles. As a parent really trying to not kind of just hope that that fixes itself, also being able to intervene and help a student if they\u2019re struggling in school early on.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Yeah I have two kids, one is 12 and one is nine. And it wasn\u2019t really until the nine year old started going through elementary school that it really clicked, oh all of these math skills like stack on top of each other, so if you\u2019re struggling in first grade, second grade is not going to be easier. Third grade is not going to be easier.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And when you start in first grade, it\u2019s easy. Here\u2019s addition and going through basically even like flashcards with your kids it\u2019s so important. And I remember my oldest daughter I think in second or third grade, and the dean actually sent a note to everybody and said, \u201cPlease continue on your basic math facts with your kids.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">This is because they graduated from the addition doesn\u2019t mean that they can forget it now. So keep going through the flashcards, doing those with them. And then now she\u2019s in sixth grade and I\u2019m seeing the little third grader doing all of these things again. And reading is another huge thing. If you can\u2019t even understand the problem you\u2019re never going to be able to answer it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Zach I like that you\u2019re starting pre-junior high even because you can\u2019t be an F minus student all the way through fifth grade and then all of a sudden you\u2019re A pluses in sixth grade. And these little things really add up and I\u2019m seeing this in my own kids now and it\u2019s really helpful.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah it\u2019s incredibly true. I mean I\u2019ve spent most of my time as a high school educator. So obviously I like to think that my work with high schoolers is really important. But the reality is so much of their educational foundation and their educational trajectory is established by the end of eighth grade. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So not neglecting that component and really helping your child figure out school and really figure out a love for school earlier on, it sounds like a basic thing and it doesn\u2019t necessarily sound like financial advice but there are rewards that it reaps, four or six years later as the students look into college. It really is profound.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> What are some interventions that you\u2019ve seen from your experience that have been very effective? Kids who maybe have been struggling and then here\u2019s how the parents stepped in and actually corrected that problem.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah so I mean probably the biggest one I see is the attitude and approach that the parent takes towards school. Because there\u2019s one category of a challenge that a student has or if they have a diagnosed learning disability or difference and just they\u2019re going to approach learning in a very different context. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But I feel like the majority of situations that I see, students can learn and they can access the information but it becomes more about the attitude that they have. So as a parent trying to be an encourager in that of yeah school may not always be fun but here\u2019s why it\u2019s good. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So I think as a parent and I have three young boys, so I even have to check myself sometimes of not approaching it in the sense of badmouthing school or being kind of cantankerous of, \u201cOh yeah that\u2019s totally lame you\u2019re never going to use that,\u201d that\u2019s the kind of advice that doesn\u2019t instill inspiration into the student.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So I think that attitude piece is a big fact. If it is a more severe kind of clearly identified learning disability, I think really reaching out and having an active engagement with the educators at the school or trying to get clarity from them, because they\u2019re the ones best equipped to speak into what the particular situation is for that student.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> How do you do that without being a helicopter parent?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> That\u2019s actually a really astute question. It\u2019s a fine balance. I mean I think some of it is if as a parent, if you\u2019re approaching a teacher or a learning specialist at the school, really approaching with a sense of humility of, \u201cHey, here\u2019s what I\u2019m seeing at home. I don\u2019t know if teachers are seeing that, but have some concern and we just want to dialogue through it.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So I think addressing it from a stance of partnership and not necessarily kind of a finger wagging type moment of, \u201cThis is how you should be doing your job.\u201d And when it\u2019s your own kid and you care about them so much, it\u2019s easy to fall into that place. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But I think just trying to approach it in a professional manner and approach in a way of, \u201cHey I think there\u2019s an issue here, let\u2019s work together.\u201d Because the educators and the parents they\u2019re seeking the same thing. They want to see the student succeed and so just continuing to remember that as you approach teachers and learning specialists in the school.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> As a parent I will say that sometimes I definitely not even sometimes I definitely fall into that helicopter parenting when it comes to homework. But like you said, you care about them so much you want them to succeed and it makes me very sad when I see kids who\u2019re obviously struggling and they\u2019re obviously not getting the help at home. And if you want you could think what college you need to encourage them from grade school and then middle school.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah. And I guess the one disclaimer that I would give is the reservation that I have even of starting to talk about the funding of college this early on is I don\u2019t want it become the kind of thing where it ratchets up stress for kids or it creates anxiety and panic in the parent. That\u2019s really not where we need to be. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But instead just in a place of hopefully loving the process and really learning how to love education and schooling. So that\u2019s my one caveat I mean that\u2019s the challenge if you start talking about this place and it\u2019s students in first or second grade that does feel like overkill so I don\u2019t mean it for that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But just to have a sense of understanding that like you\u2019re saying Mindy, where are students at early on unless there\u2019s external correction, they\u2019re probably going to continue on that same course. So if the student hasn\u2019t learned those effective habits earlier on, then when they get to high school and transcripts and GPA matters, it\u2019s hard to turn that ship at that point.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> That is very true. I didn\u2019t turn my ship around but I still did okay. But I could have done a lot better if I would have had my ship turned around. I\u2019m not really sure why I didn\u2019t. This isn\u2019t about me. So what are some things that parents could be doing pre-high school age to be saving for college? Because not everybody is guaranteed a scholarship and maybe you do all these things right and it doesn\u2019t work out.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah. I think from a financial perspective the biggest avenue that is looked at is 529 plans. And I\u2019m not necessarily an expert on those and each state has different regulations that guide the 529s. I think that that issue of having a tax sheltered avenue to be able to save money, put it aside, it think it can have a lot of merit. I think it really depends on individual situations.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So the secondary kind of approach and honestly the one that I\u2019m moving into and I have 529 plans for my sons moving more to an approach really from Brandon Turner and what he advocates. But I think it makes a lot of sense to think about an income producing asset and to try to identify are there ways that you can, whether it is real estate or some other avenue where you can use that same money and still -have that same level of intentionality.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But ultimately put it into an asset that will help pay for college when the time comes, rather than having that money just go to the institution itself. So that\u2019s the challenge I think for a 529, is at the end of the day those funds can only be used for accrued educational expenses. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So if you give all of that money to the institution you don\u2019t have that resource. The only resource you have on the backend is the degree itself which is really worthwhile and I think has value. But if you can maintain an asset, while getting the degree as well I think that\u2019s the better tax.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> So what you\u2019re referring to is Brandon bought a four-plex and when did he close on that Scott? When his daughter was like six days old or something?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> It might have been like around the day that she was born yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Yeah. He bought a four-plex and got a 15 year loan on it. So by the time she is ready to go to college or almost through high school, the property will be paid off and then he could either sell it to fund her whole college degree or he can continue to have the asset for her to just generate money. And that\u2019s really cool.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Yeah or- sorry to chime in here- or he can refinance the property, pull all the cash out, not have a taxable event, put it on a 30 year mortgage, on his daughter\u2019s education and the next generation\u2019s college education. I\u2019m a big fan of this approach.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> I love this, I just love all this. It would never would have occurred to me to buy a four Plex for my kids. I\u2019m getting ready to by a triplex so yeah I could fund college for my kids at least on my triplex. But that is a good idea.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> But basically if you\u2019re listening or you\u2019re following there\u2019s kind of two options that were kind come up here sounds like, right. One is use the 529 plan which is get a tax-sheltered, tax-deferred way to save for college, and invest through that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But again you\u2019re not left with anything besides a plan that can pay for higher education there. Use real estate as a means to do that or use some other after-tax means to save for college that will help you kind of save up those assets and pus aside money there. Is that right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah. Absolutely. And I think that part of the challenge is the best thing that you can do is they could be in a strong financial position and having really been intentional in whichever choice you make, but of what we\u2019re going to talk about is that if somebody really follows through with a lot of the principles that you talk about on this show, and you\u2019ve identified and find yourself in a place of financial independence or retiring early, congrats that\u2019s awesome.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But that also creates a separate set of challenges because of how colleges evaluate financial aid, evaluate assets and determine kind of scholarships and aid that a student\u2019s going to get when they get to college.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Can you kind of go into some more detail there? How would being an early retiree affect some things like FASA?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah so kind of skipping to that, I mean the reality is schools look at so FASA itself the Free Application for Student Aid is a federal tool that\u2019s used that is really dictated just based off of your tax returns. And it\u2019s a pretty blunt instrument that kicks out this term Estimated Family Contribution or your EFC.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And that\u2019s based on everything that\u2019s showing on your taxes, here\u2019s what we think you can distribute to school. The challenge with that is the schools that are giving the highest amount of need-based aid, so aid that\u2019s based off on the family\u2019s income and financial situation, they\u2019re going to use a secondary tool called the CSS profile, is going to be much more precise.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And I think ultimately for most of your listeners if they\u2019re in a financial independence state they\u2019re going to get hurt pretty significantly by going through the CSS profile, because all of their assets, all of the places that their income comes from, most schools are going to identify that and say, \u201cLooks like you have been really diligent and you have a lot of cash reserves.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">\u201cYou can pay for college we\u2019re not going to give you money to recruit your kid to come here. So they\u2019re not going to give a lot of need-based aid. So then the second category of aid that I think most of listeners really should focus on is the merit based aid. So the majority of that merit-based aid is based upon academic strength of a student.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So that\u2019s why starting so effectively early on, is going to ultimately put them in a position where regardless of the family\u2019s financial circumstances, they\u2019re still going to be able to access scholarships and grants, that are going to be used as a tool to recruit them to come to the college.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> So you\u2019re saying that if I\u2019m looking to achieve financial freedom and I build up a solid 401(k) plan, I\u2019ve got a couple rental properties and some after-tax brokerage account funds, that I may have a very low income which would show up as which in theory you\u2019d think that it would help me qualify for FASA on a low income basis. But because my assets are large, the secondary tool, what was it called the C-.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> CSS profile.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> The CSS profile is going to expose my net worth and make sure that I am excluded from need-based aid. And so I need to plan through other avenues in order to get there. I\u2019m I reading that correctly?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> I think so. I mean obviously this is very general advice and each person\u2019s situation is going to be different. But for the most part the CSS profile is really designed to be able to slice through kind of different tax shelters, different things, and get a true sense of do you or do you not have the resources to be able to pay for college.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So the schools that you see sometimes you\u2019ll see and typically it\u2019s the highly selective institutions where they\u2019ll say, \u201cWe\u2019re going to cover 100% of demonstrated need.\u201d That\u2019s kind of a big term that you\u2019ll see sometimes as you\u2019re reading articles on this. And that\u2019s an incredible commitment from these schools.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But they\u2019re really trying to then determine is this a family that everything is protected and kind of their assets are distributed in a way that the FASA is not going to see if. And if that\u2019s the case they don\u2019t necessarily want to give significant aid to that student, because they feel like the family has the resources to be able to pay for college.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Okay so it sounds like if you\u2019re a family that is kind of moving toward financial freedom and kind of getting there by the time your kids are going to go to college, that we\u2019re going to focus on the merit based thing. Suppose some of our listeners are not going to get there and are going to potentially qualify for that need, I don\u2019t think we\u2019re going to get into that discussion too much today. But is there resource or place they can go to look to find more information offline?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> I mean I think the biggest place is really with the financial aid office at a particular school that they\u2019re thinking about. Because the reality is there\u2019s not a one singular approach that colleges and universities use to determine the aid the aid that they\u2019re going to give. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So because of how divergent those policies could be, if you know, \u201cHey my target institution is Vanderbilt,\u201d then you want to go and look and say reach out to the financial aid office and get a sense. Because for some families even upper middle class families, they may be able to go to a school but does cover 100% of need cheaper than they could go for their local state university.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I mean I had a family that student started at CU Boulder and he was essentially paying full price is an in-state resident at CU Boulder, and even though both parents worked, they had a good upper middle-class income, he went to school cheaper at Vanderbilt because of the way that they cover need. So every situation is different but I would say if you have a target school that you\u2019re looking at, address the financial aid office there first.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> So a couple of things I want to point out. Thank you Zach for saying this is kind of an overview of the different ways to fund college. Obviously if you know everything there is to know about funding college you\u2019re probably not even listening to this anymore but this is really for people who don\u2019t have a lot of information about funding for college.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">These are different things for you to look into. Like the 529 plan I think was a cool plan. I\u2019ve never set one up but then I see here that a grandparent can set up a 529 plan. And that money isn\u2019t counted against my income or my asset or my kids\u2019 income or asset. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So that\u2019s another thing to look into. I didn\u2019t even know grandparents could\u2026 529 plan. Is my retirement account, my 401(k), my IRAs, all of those things, those assets counted toward my assets for the CSS ship, or is it just like my real estate holdings and my after-tax investment accounts?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> So generally those retirement assets are not a consideration of it. If functionally if there\u2019s going to be a penalty to access it, generally the schools aren\u2019t going to look at that particular piece. But the components of the assets their after-tax, and that you do have access to, they\u2019re going to make a judgment as to what percentage of that could you leverage to be able to fund college. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So there is a distinction there again I think getting that specific answer from that particular college, because some schools are going to interpret those things a little bit differently.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay. That\u2019s good to know. So let\u2019s say somebody was the co-host of a popular podcast and they didn\u2019t max out their 401(k), they would be doing themselves a disservice by not maxing out their 401(k) if say they wanted to have eight kids and put them all through college. Completely hypothetical 100% go\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Okay so we\u2019ve covered a little bit about the preparation for pre-high school. To be clear all my grades from eighth grade and before mean nothing to my GPA, my high school, my college applications that sort of thing. That\u2019s just preparing you to be a good student in high school. Is that correct?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Almost completely. There\u2019s some schools, if a student is taking let\u2019s say if they\u2019re taking Algebra I in eighth grade and that\u2019s considered a high school course in the school district, that particular course may show up during the eighth grade year onto the high school transcript, and may factor into the GPA. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But I would say the vast majority of schools that it\u2019s exactly true. What happened before August of ninth grade year, is irrelevant to the academic record. And colleges are only going to begin looking from fall freshman year on through their senior year.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> But that said what you said earlier is a critical piece you nobody gets straight Cs all the way through eighth grade and then becomes a straight As student all through high school. I mean it happens it\u2019s really you got to set that trend in place, in that sixth, seventh and eighth grade, it sounds like going into high school and keep that going. Is that right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Correct, yeah absolutely.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay so let\u2019s switch over then to high school students. They\u2019ve done grapes throughout grade school and middle school because they\u2019ve got great parents who\u2019re really involved, and help keeping them on track, and doing their math facts. Daphne we\u2019re going to do math facts when I get home today. Every once in a while she\u2019ll listen to the show. She hates doing her math facts.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> My boys as well.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Yeah. What are some things we want to start off with in high school, maybe even just in freshman year of high school?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah. So I think it\u2019s important even though again is not expressly tied to the funding of college, understanding how colleges are making a determination to grant admissions sneakers into this conversation. So understanding that the most important thing that a school is going to look at is going to be a student\u2019s high school transcript.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And part of that is the grades associated with it but it\u2019s also the rigor of the courses that are selected. So just meaning that 4.0 GPA is not the same as another 4.0 GPA if one student is taking all elective courses and the other student is taking multiple honors for AP classes. Those two transcripts are not to be viewed the same by most schools.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Some schools are just can have a purely numerical review where they say, \u201cYou\u2019ve graduated from high school, here\u2019s your GPA and then we\u2019ll determine admission based off that.\u201d But if a school\u2019s diving into the details of a student\u2019s academic records, the rigor associated with it, and the relative rigor compared to the other students in their school, that matters a lot.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So when you\u2019re going into ninth grade, starting to think about what are the courses that we want to pursue, and then what\u2019s the right balance. I think as I\u2019ve worked with families, ninth grade year is a really challenging year because you have to be able to evaluate. You don\u2019t want to be overzealous parent that\u2019s like, \u201cMan my kid can do it all.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And they go and totally load up. And then we get the middle of fall semester and it\u2019s like there\u2019s way more tears than we want, and the student\u2019s pulling straight Cs. Now you\u2019re like, okay over corrected. We need to tone it back a little bit. So finding that sweet spot of an appropriate level of rigor for the student, and then also giving them the opportunity to maintain a really solid GPA.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Because that ninth grade year is really important. For many students, if they\u2019re applying early, so they apply early in their fall semester of their senior year, there may only be six semesters worth of grades that are being evaluated to dictate that GPA. So you don\u2019t want to neglect that ninth grade year. And I tell families, I err on the side of being conservative when it comes to ninth grade year.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Because I think ninth grade year your job one, is you want a solid GPA foundation. And then sophomore and junior year, then as appropriate for the student beginning to ratchet up the level of rigor. And if the school has a weighted and unweighted GPA, then that have a positive benefit to getting them a higher weighted GPA once they get to the point of having their high school transcript reviewed.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Yeah I have an anecdote about this from my high school. I went to public high school but it was pretty competitive in terms of who was going to be able to graduate near the top of the class. I was not in the running for this. But amongst the people who were, one kid managed to put gym in his senior year. Right and because all these kinds of classes are weighted, so elective might have been a 4.0 GPA, you got an A in that class.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But an honors class an honors class might have been a 4.5 possible weight, and then a gifted and talented or advanced placement course would have been a 5.0, right. So this kid to all 5.0 classes from freshman year, sophomore year and junior year and got straight A\u2019s. 33 other kids also all got straight A\u2019s but they took gym as a freshman and he took it as a senior.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So he was valedictorian because when they declared that before the end of senior year, he had the higher weight of the GPA. So it\u2019s like that was a huge controversy, right. Sorry I\u2019m going to off on a tangent here but that\u2019s the kind of stuff that parents probably don\u2019t know going in after high school right. They\u2019re just like unaware of these ways to gain these things.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And all those other kids could have done the same thing and potentially graduated at the top of the class co-valedictorians, but because they didn\u2019t know that rule or kind of plan ahead, and kind of have that going in even probably into eighth grade. And that summer before high school there kids were unfairly at a disadvantage.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah. And I think especially, that dynamic of valedictorian and if you\u2019re number one in your class or if you\u2019re not, I think yeah exactly at that high-end that could become hypercompetitive and you\u2019re making a lot of choices. And some of that my encouragement would be the other 33 kids, they put themselves in an incredibly strong position relative to going to college. So I think still being in a good place even though they didn\u2019t have to be the one maybe they\u2026 so they didn\u2019t want to be the one having to give the speech at graduation.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Yeah that\u2019s a way of thinking about summer before eighth grade. I would like to be valedictorian but I don\u2019t really want to give that speech for\u2026 <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Taking that off the table.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> I\u2019d like to say good for him for thinking ahead and doing that. That was really like an actual plan that he had, it\u2019s kind of smart. He deserves to be valedictorian if he\u2019s going to think like that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Well sorry for taking us all off-track here but.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> It was a good story.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> I had to put that out there. Okay so let\u2019s suppose you\u2019re not going for valedictorian, you\u2019re thinking how does my child, who is an above average student, how do we kind of help them put them in a really good position? You said take a really good set of foundation courses and prepare for that rigor going into sophomore and junior year?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah absolutely. And then I think the other component we\u2019ll get to more of this in a minute as far as how we think about the college process and being able to buy cheap credits as it were. But in most schools you can do that in high school, based on if there\u2019s a dual credit or dual enrollment course, if there\u2019s AP course.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Typically those classes are going to come with an additional wait for a lot of high schools. But those classes also pay dividends later because if they can be used for the general Ed once you get to college, I think that ends up being a really smart thing. So the course side of it and being really intentional on building the transcript is kind of step one.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">The second step when it comes to prepping is the vast majority of colleges are still going to look to the ACT or the SAT. So having a really intentional approach on how you manage that and how you prepare for that, I think that\u2019s one of the things that if the family is not well informed, I think that ends up being a place where they don\u2019t do enough to really or put enough stock in the influence that that has.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So my general guideline is a student on both the ACT and SAT, it is going to test through Algebra II math information. So that really indicates when a student should be taking the ACT or SAT. If they are not getting to Algebra II until junior year then they need to wait and not take it until maybe the end of their junior year or going into very early of their senior year.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But if a student is taking Algebra II as a sophomore, then they can look to take the ACT or SAT really early in junior year. And again some of that depends on where they\u2019re in their English proficiency, but that\u2019s generally true for most students. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And then I think based on when you\u2019re going to decide to take the test, my recommendation is most students don\u2019t have a need to take the ACT or SAT more than three times, but they should plan on taking it multiple times, because we see positive results for those students that do.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So then having a calendar of saying, here\u2019s where we anticipate taking the ACT or SAT, and then kind of looking six months or so before that and starting to layer in some test scrub so that a student goes in really to give themselves the best chance possible on those tests.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay I\u2019ve got a couple of questions, ACT and SAT when you take it multiple times I didn\u2019t take the SAT, I did take the ACT. And there\u2019s like three or four, it\u2019s been a while since I did this. Three or four-<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Four sub sections.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Yeah so I got really awesome grades in three, and then in one of them did not. I got a six in the math part. If I took the test again, would I keep my three high scores and then have the opportunity to improve my math score? Is it an all or nothing thing, or do they take the highest of all the ones that you did?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah so what you\u2019re talking about is a term called super scoring. Sounds as cool as it really can be. And where if you\u2019ve taken it multiple times do they take the subsection scores, and you just get your best? So ACT has been pretty clear that they don\u2019t desire for the ACT to be super scored, however some colleges still do.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So like Baylor is an example of a college where they\u2019ve said, \u201cHey if you take it multiple times we\u2019re going to use your best sub-scores and that\u2019s what we\u2019re going to dictate your scholarships off of. The goal is they want to recruit kids. So if they can use the math to say, \u201cHey this is your best possible situation and now that qualifies you for a $4000 higher scholarship that makes the difference of you coming to our school, that\u2019s a win-win.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So some schools will super score. The SAT is more commonly super scored, and that just as two subsections now so it\u2019s out of 1600 points. And there\u2019s a math section and an English writing reading section, each of which is 50% of the composite score.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay and then a couple minutes ago you mentioned dual credit courses. Where are you finding the information that this is a dual credit course? Does that come from the high school or from the college?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> So in most situations you need to talk to your high school counselor and understand what the program is at your local high school. Most high schools are going to have partnerships either with an area school or some school that\u2019s maybe tied to their association if it\u2019s a faith based school or something like that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And they\u2019ll have a program where typically they will have maybe endorsed certain, so like the college will say, \u201cWe guarantee this high school class is really functioning like a college-level class.\u201d And there will be some college, maybe an area community college that\u2019s actually giving a transcript for the courses taken at the high school.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So it can be a fantastic thing for kids because and the other benefit is, unlike AT, AT has one test at the end of the year, and even if the kid is fantastic all year long, if they tank that test on one day in May, they may not get college credit. Whereas with dual credit is an evaluation of the grade that a student earned in the class. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So for different students AT, may be better for one, dual credit might be better for the other. And many schools will have both programs. So you just want to make an informed choice about which might be the right situation for your student to pursue.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> And this would give an advantage I would presume to trying to find a way to send your child to a large public high school, versus a smaller one right. Because they\u2019re going to be more likely to have some of these programs and deals with the other community colleges. Is that accurate or is that?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> So I think that probably was accurate. I feel like I\u2019ve seen the trend that unless honestly it\u2019s probably more rural schools that have less of that, but if it\u2019s in a metropolis, most schools are still going to have these partnerships. But again if a family is in the process of evaluating what school do I want my student to go to, and if they\u2019re having a keen eye towards how are we going to plan this high school phase, to give us the most options or most flexibility come college, that may be a factor that informs choosing one school over another.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Okay.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay. Do you recommend paying for test prep courses like these SAT and ACT? I didn\u2019t prepare at all clearly for my test, but on the one hand it seems like a great idea how much is the cost. And it\u2019s been so long I don\u2019t even know how much it cost my parents paid for it. But like what does the SAT cost and the ACT to actually sit and take the test? And then what would some of these test prep courses cost?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah. So the tests themselves I mean it depends on ACT and SAT is a little bit different, and they each have an optional writing section that is a little bit more expensive because it\u2019s more expensive to score. So roughly plan on $50-$70 for each time that you take the ACT or SAT. But as far as the test prep goes it really depends.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Some of that as a parent is making a really wise decision and knowing your son or daughter based on who they are as a student, and how they can study. If a student is self-disciplined and really bought into this process of they want to do the very best that they possibly can, I really don\u2019t think that you need to pay for test prep.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">There\u2019s enough resources out there. One of the biggest ones is a couple years ago SAT piloted a partnership with Khan Academy, which Khan Academy has a ton of online resources. And essentially think about it like as a database of on-demand tutorials, so everything from Algebra I to Calculus. But they also rolled out a specific SAT test prep that\u2019s free.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So if a student is really self-motivated and can be disciplined enough to work through that, that\u2019s an incredible resource. But also your local library. I mean almost every library is going to have test prep booklets. They\u2019re full books that are maybe 600 pages long. And the reality is SAT and ACT, it\u2019s a discrete set of information that\u2019s being test.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So if a student works through that even though that feels like a daunting process of working through a 600 page prep book, if they are disciplined enough, you just check it out go through and you\u2019re ready to go. Most kids in my experience they need a little bit more structure. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So part of what the parents are paying for is having a coach that\u2019s really guiding and maybe alleviating the parent riding the kid and creating stress at home. And the tutor or if it\u2019s in a class, they\u2019re the ones that can help motivate the kids and kind of inspire them most. Yes, you need to be studying and prepping for this.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> I got a crazy question here, but is the SAT something that you see is best done in a binge right before the test for two, three, four weeks maybe a month or two, or is that something you have to really prepare and keep going after for years of study for these kids?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah. So I mean again it kind of depends on where the kid\u2019s at, but if a student is a strong student, consistently showing positive results in high school, and on other standardized testing that they\u2019re taking, then probably it\u2019s more you need to focus on what is the test itself and test taking strategies for that particular test, it\u2019s not so much the content.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">If a student is way behind on the content, then that\u2019s going to expand the amount of time that they need to dedicate to it. Because this is a place where yeah that student may be able to kind of turn their ship relative to their test score much quicker, easier than they could turn their academic ship relative to their GPA.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Because you can\u2019t go back and change what happened in freshman and sophomore year, but you can influence and make significant gains if a student is motivated and attempts to reteach themselves. Ultimately that then becomes more intrinsically motivated, and if they\u2019re invested in it, I mean I see incredible gains with kids. But that means stretch it out over six or nine months dependent upon how far behind they are.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> How do you find kids who are not motivated? What are effective ways to motivate them to take to if nothing else, the grade? Hey grades, whatever but this test, so much of their future, kind of rides in some ways on the results that you kind of get out of this. Is there ways to get them just on board for this test, and then back into the high school flare or whatever?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah so honestly I mean this is maybe one of the places that I see the most stress and tension that gets created in the parent-child relationship, is over this issue. Because I think mom and dad who are potentially paying for this, they see the consequences of the decisions that the student is making, and they would love to see the student make a different set of choices.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">They\u2019d love to see them be more motivated. I think it\u2019s one of those things that I think you really have to tread lightly at that point, especially when I see families the kid\u2019s now 16\/17 years of age, most kids are not respond super favorably to the parent that kind of swoops in and they\u2019re like, \u201cYou have got to go do this.\u201d <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">They\u2019re going to kind of revolt from that and say, \u201cScrew you, I\u2019m not really in the mood for this right now. So I think the biggest way that I see it, is that the kid has to have a vision for their future, in understanding why college is a component of that process. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Because if the student doesn\u2019t have that intrinsically, then all of this kind of signing a kid up for test prep and just maybe putting them in the best schools, if they don\u2019t have that vision for their future, they\u2019re going to ultimately think flounder a little bit. And so part of what I recommend is in the ninth and 10<\/span><span class=\"s2\"><sup>th<\/sup><\/span><span class=\"s1\"> grade year, having- I worked with one family they called it a vision trip very specifically.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Where ninth grade year they wanted to get their kids on really good college campuses and to just kind of start dreaming and thinking about, okay what could college look like, what are your strengths, what do you want to be when you grow up? And really cascading that big vision. And then once the student gets excited about that, then when you\u2019re like, \u201cHey, here\u2019s one for better or for worse this is a portion of the process, so let\u2019s think intentionally about that.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And now the kid understands how test prep fits into that, it doesn\u2019t just feel like this ancillary thing that gets layered on top of their teenage life. But instead it\u2019s something that has a purpose. And they say, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m ready for this and I\u2019m willing to put in the work because now I have a picture of what I hope to be when I grow up or what I hope to have this next phase of my life look like.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> That\u2019s really awesome advice. I didn\u2019t go to my first college visit until I don\u2019t know 12<\/span><span class=\"s2\"><sup>th<\/sup><\/span><span class=\"s1\"> grade. And it was just me and my parents didn\u2019t go with me. And I liked it I thought it was really cool, it was on the shore of Lake Michigan right outside of Chicago. Kind of difficult to not fall in love with that school.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Hopefully you weren\u2019t taking that tour in January. There\u2019s probably a little different perception at that part of the year.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> I have another question here, and then I would love to dive into okay now that we\u2019ve got all this covered, how do we actually apply for the scholarships themselves and sort of the financial component? But before we get to that, extracurriculars, right that was huge when I was in high school. Would that kind of still be an essential part of the planning here outside of grades, your transcript and your SAT, right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah. So again it depends on the school. So really colleges fall into two batches when it comes to their application review process. You\u2019re going to have schools often times is maybe second-tier public state schools, or it\u2019s going to be really large schools that they\u2019re only going to look at GPA and test score. That\u2019s essentially going to be all that they\u2019re going to factor and whether or not they admit a student or not.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So if that\u2019s the case, they may not care at all about extracurriculars. I don\u2019t think that\u2019s license then say don\u2019t be involved in anything, and only do test prep for three years. I don\u2019t think that\u2019s good advice just to make good human beings. I think extracurriculars carry a lot of value in just the character development work ethic dealing with adversity. Which just pays a lot of dividends in who we want the students to become.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So the second set of schools, their admissions processes is going to be what they call a holistic review, where they\u2019re evaluating, they\u2019re taking into account the GPA and test score. But they\u2019re really look at the counselor letter recommendation, they\u2019re going to look at the teacher letter of recommendation, and the overall resume of where has the student invested their time?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So that is going to be a factor for those schools. That\u2019s typically going to be those schools that especially if they are granting a high-level need-based aid, almost all of those schools are going to be more of that holistic approach. So I think it does still matter. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">The other thing that I\u2019d say is there\u2019s- it\u2019s not a huge pot of money, but there\u2019s money at different schools for leadership based merit. So often times the way the kids are demonstrating leadership skills at the high school level is through extracurriculars of some sort whether it\u2019s sports or Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts or some kind of community service activities. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And so that especially would play most significantly in those leadership scholarships or if there is kind of a full ride scholarship that\u2019s a competition based scholarship that the school offers, those are really important differentiators of kids at that level.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Awesome. I mentioned earlier in the show here that I went to a very hypercompetitive public high school, and then I wasn\u2019t in the top running for valedictorian but I did fairly well, and studied all of these things. Studied my butt off for the SAT, was highly self-motivated. I played football, wrestling, lacrosse, all that kind of stuff. And I wasn\u2019t unusual in high school.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">This was like a lot of the kids there. And then I went to a brand name expensive college, right. And I think that was influenced by my high school experience. But I think you mentioned that you might have a different perspective on the pursuit of a brand-name college, and it might influence some people on how they\u2019re thinking about that approach.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah so I think your situation is one that a lot of parents aspire to for their kids. They see, I don\u2019t necessarily want to list all of them off but I mean you\u2019ve got these schools that just have a level prestige associated with their name. And I think it\u2019s easy for as a parent to kind of project your hopes onto your kid, that that\u2019s where your kid is going to end up. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And for some students, that\u2019s absolutely a right fit for them, and they have an incredible experience and it\u2019s really beneficial for them. But I think what I see so much of the time is so a couple of things, in the last 10 years the landscape of college admission has radically changed. So schools that may have even been brand-name schools if we look back statistically 10, 15 years ago, they may have had a 30 or 40% acceptance rate.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Meaning if you applied you had a three in 10, four in 10 chance of getting in. and now that same school may be all the way down to single digits and they have so many qualified kids applying, that it\u2019s I mean incredibly difficult to get into these schools. And they are looking for very specific things. So a kid can be perfect in their academic record, and still get denied to some of these brand name schools.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So if in the process we\u2019ve put such a level of emphasis on that school, then I mean it can really be debilitating to a kid\u2019s identity that they don\u2019t get in. So I think it\u2019s is important to frame this process around I don\u2019t think it\u2019s a bad thing to say, \u201cHey I want to shoot for that, I want to make myself eligible for admission in some of those top schools.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But I also want to think about there\u2019s this huge gap below kind of these ultra-rich schools and your state University, there\u2019s a lot of other private schools. There\u2019s about 4500 colleges and universities nationally. So identifying and getting well informed about the landscape so that you\u2019re building a college list that\u2019s really well-rounded.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Maybe you have two or three that you targeted, that may be highly selective, but then you also have maybe another five, six, seven that still backed out and are going to be places where you\u2019re going to get maybe a lot more money. Because maybe you get in, but if it\u2019s going to be a $65,000 price tag for that school that might not be great.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But there\u2019s a guy Frank Bernie he\u2019s done a lot of work on this. He wrote a book called Where You Go is Not Who You\u2019ll Be. And I think that\u2019s an important resource in this conversation to say, there is a place for those highly selective schools, and you don\u2019t want to discount it. They\u2019ve transformed America in a lot of ways from the research they\u2019ve produced and the influence they\u2019ve had on students\u2019 lives.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But there\u2019s also that\u2019s really maybe 100 schools. So there\u2019s 4,400 other institutions that are doing similar work. And I think it\u2019s important as parent not to discount those just because maybe they don\u2019t look as good on placard that goes on the back of your car when you\u2019re driving. So I don\u2019t think is the rationale for why we want to pick a particular school. But we want to identify what is the right fit for each student.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> What are some things that people should looking for in a school?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah I mean it is and again that part of the reason that I encourage engaging in the college process starting in that ninth and 10<\/span><span class=\"s2\"><sup>th<\/sup><\/span><span class=\"s1\"> grade year, because if you\u2019re leaving it up to the kid and they\u2019re 16\/17 years old, and you\u2019re like, \u201cWhere do you want to go to college?\u201d they\u2019re going to say California or Arizona or someplace where it\u2019s warm. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">They\u2019re going to say someplace that\u2019s got a really cool football team or basketball team. I mean they\u2019re making decisions not necessarily based on factors that as an adult we\u2019re like, \u201cYes clearly that\u2019s the way that you need to make this critical life choice.\u201d <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So if you start engaging in that process during ninth and 10<\/span><span class=\"s2\"><sup>th<\/sup><\/span><span class=\"s1\"> grade year, then the student can start to recognize, \u201cWell hey what\u2019s the value of a smaller liberal arts community? What\u2019s the value of a research institution? What\u2019s the value of, hey I want to be an engineer and I know that, so I\u2019m going to go to school that actually has engineering. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So you\u2019ve got to be able to be well-informed about the landscape of colleges to then be able to make a well-informed decision. Because if not, then you\u2019re just going to go based on your common knowledge. And oftentimes that\u2019s sports and geographic location, which I don\u2019t think are great factors.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> No, that\u2019s while going to the University of Honolulu would be really great today, we\u2019re recording this during that horrible polar vortex at the end of January that half of the country is in negative digits. Yeah that would be a really great place to be today. But yeah you\u2019re right that\u2019s not the best choice for how to choose a college just based on location unless you\u2019re majoring in surfing, in which place you\u2019re probably not going to college.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Or if you\u2019re majoring in Marine Biology, middle of the country might not make sense. Maybe that to coastal city is a good choice for that. But again you don\u2019t know that you might just be kind of guessing. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay so let\u2019s talk about the college application process. I didn\u2019t realize that it costs money to apply to a college until sometime last year, I heard on the radio that today is free apply to all Colorado Colleges Day. I was like, \u201cWait, what? You have to pay to apply?\u201d So really I am starting best at zero as I\u2019m sure Scott already knew and he doesn\u2019t have a kid yet. You have to pay to apply.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So let\u2019s talk about the application process and do you have any ways to save money other than Free Colorado Colleges Day?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah so I mean that is one. The other piece is especially not highly selective schools, but a number of other schools they will actually part of their recruitment process of a student is they may send emails, or they may send a mailer that says, here\u2019s a waiver and it doesn\u2019t cost you any money. And maybe we\u2019re even waive the essay because they have ways on the backend to see a kid\u2019s PSAT or other testing.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So that may have pre-identified a student to say you would be a really good academic fit in our school, so you may get something in the mail that says apply for free. So that oftentimes will happen. There\u2019s also a process where a student can get a fee waiver. So this likely isn\u2019t going to be for a family who has reached financial independence.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But if a family struggles financially and looking at the different challenges that they have with their student, the school\u2019s guidance counselor can help determine, so like if they\u2019re eligible for free or reduced lunch, they\u2019re likely eligible for tuition labors. And so they say, \u201cWe don\u2019t want that expense to be an impediment to our student applying.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So again it kind of depends on the student\u2019s financial situation. But when you sign up or kind of demonstrate interest in a college and say, \u201cYeah I\u2019m interested in your school,\u201d then dependent upon the school, they may send you a waiver that says, \u201cApply for free, we want you to come and learn more about our school.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Alright, so you\u2019ve done everything you can in high school to get good grades, maybe did some extracurriculars but really focusing on grades and those test scores. And you\u2019ve gone to a school that maybe is not awarding you any merit scholarships at that point. Are there any other avenues to approach prior to entering college to attempt to get excess funding? You don\u2019t qualify for any of merit scholarship. Any last minute things to be thinking of while going through a transition?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Absolutely so let\u2019s say the scenario is I do want to go to the name brand school, I\u2019m not qualify for need-based aid and the school philosophically doesn\u2019t merit aid state. There\u2019s a lot of schools that fit that profile, they only want to use their resources for low income or medium income families and make college affordable for them. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Then that is the profile of the student that probably should go look at external scholarships. So there are a lot of free resources that a student can go into and search online to be able to identify and typically they\u2019re going to be smaller. I mean they may be as small as $100 up to a couple of thousand dollars. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So you end up having to stack all of these, think about it as like extreme couponing but for college, where you\u2019re going to identify all of these different sources of aid. And then you\u2019re really going to attempt to put all of that together.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Can you give us some of those resources so we can put them in our show notes?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah so when a student is attempting to move down this process, a couple are fastweb.com, capex.com, scholarships.com, college boards use the same company that puts out the SAT and AT. They have a thing called bigfuture.collegeboard.org. So there\u2019s all of these different free resources. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">In general I would say I don\u2019t think scholarships and looking for external scholarships that if you\u2019re doing searches online, you\u2019ll see that there\u2019s a lot of places that want to charge you to help you find that money. I personally haven\u2019t seen that work really well with kids, and I think the issue is they want to open up access to higher education. So I don\u2019t think it\u2019s something that you really need to keep paying money for, with one exception. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">There is an app that is call My Scholly S-C-H-O-L-L-Y and it has like a $3 a month charge, but it\u2019s almost like match.com but for scholarships, where you go in and you put in all of your biographical information, and then they kick out and say, okay based on potential major based on maybe your ethnicity, your geographic background, all of these other factors, here\u2019s a list of scholarships that you may be eligible for.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And they make it really easy to apply online, so that\u2019s one but the expensive of it is so cheap that that to me isn\u2019t a big deal, but like these other services they\u2019re charging hundreds of thousands of dollars to help find it, I think that might not be the best return on investment for families. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> So if I\u2019m thinking through this, I\u2019m pursuing financial independence my kid\u2019s about to go to college. They got into a pretty good school, it\u2019s going to be very expensive and we\u2019re not going to qualify for aid. My next step is son or daughter here\u2019s a list of hundreds of places that offer small scholarships, anywhere from one to $5000. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">You\u2019re going to be writing about 100 essays over the next month, and you\u2019ll be applying for every single one that you meet the qualification for and you\u2019re going to do a really good job, because this is going to make a major difference in the financial profile of what this is going to look like for college, and get to work. Is that what you\u2019re saying is basically the path there?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> So I think it can be. I think that\u2019s one path. I think the second or maybe an alternate path to that in some ways I think may be more attainable or replicable for families, is maybe you look at I like to talk with families about buying cheap credits. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So I think when you look at the school\u2019s transfer credit policy and trying to understand there are some schools that if an undergraduate degree is 120 credits they will allow you to transfer into their school up to 90 credits. Now that\u2019s kind of rare but many schools will allow you transfer 60 credits, some schools will also restrict it to 30 credits. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Some of the high end exclusive schools may not allow any transfer credit. But if it is a school that has a lenient transfer policy, then I think you start to evaluate how can I really establish the ways to be able to buy the cheapest credits possible? So that\u2019s where you go back to the AP the dual credits. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">One that I\u2019m a total fan of is CLEP Test. So with a CLEP Test you go $87, you take a test. And dependent upon the test and the school\u2019s policy for CLEP you may be able to get six credit hours for one test. So a couple hours of time $87, I mean that is about the cheapest possible credit that you can buy. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I think about buying college credit at $14 per credit as opposed to hundreds if not thousands of dollars for different state universities or private colleges, that\u2019s the kind of place where you can start bundling and you\u2019re reducing your overall cost and potentially reducing your overall time in school that makes a huge difference on the bottom line. And essentially as a way to buy college for a discount.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Is the CLEP Test a test that you take at the end of a course or do you just say, \u201cI want to take a CLEP Test,\u201d and they\u2019re like, \u201cHere you go.\u201d Do you have to study? Is there a way to study? Clearly I didn\u2019t take all of these.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah. So it\u2019s kind of all the above. So if a student is in let\u2019s say a high school that\u2019s preparing them really well, and maybe they\u2019re not in a dual credit or AP course, but the rigor of that class is really high, they may have a significant amount of the knowledge that would show up on that CLEP Test, and then you can identify there\u2019s guides online that say here\u2019s everything that\u2019s covered on this test, or the domains of the content area that you need to study.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And that\u2019s the kind of thing where for a lot of kids even if it means they\u2019re studying five or six hours a week for a couple of weeks and to get other information on the topic area that they didn\u2019t get in the class. They can go and access it themselves and go in and test. Some of this is also if a kid is really good at test taking, CLEP is a good option. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">If a kid\u2019s not good at test taking, and by this point\u2026 career, we know is they\u2019re much more, maybe they\u2019re a better writer or presenter, they\u2019re not a great test taker. If they\u2019re not a great test taker don\u2019t force it with CLEP there\u2019s other avenues that you can go down. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But if they are a great test taker, this is a way of like potentially eliminating years of college just based on investing in this short test that you take to demonstrate that I already have this knowledge, and I don\u2019t need to spend an entire semester or years\u2019 worth of time in class.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> And another thing, I didn\u2019t have CLEP, I wasn\u2019t aware of it and didn\u2019t do any of that. But I did take a lot of AP credits in high. And what that allowed me to do transferring them into college was dual major and double minor in a couple of units that I was interested in. And that made that a lot easier on that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">One of my big regrets is that I didn\u2019t knock out Spanish in high school, then I went three years out studying Spanish and taking a senior year in college was brutal. But if you can get that done, you can take the relevant course that are relevant to the career you\u2019re focusing on as well and stack up more and more in a four year degree if you just want to go to college for these four years I think.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Exactly. And I think a school like Vanderbilt often that profile of school usually won\u2019t take the CLEP Test so you have to look at the individual school. But I had a student that went to Georgia Tech and they carried in with them a ton of AP courses a ton of dual credit courses I think in the neighborhood of like 50 hours when they got to college. And it was the exact same thing. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">They were able to study abroad, they were able to do a prolonged paid internship. I mean you give yourself more flexibility. So for some students they\u2019re going to want to use that flexibility as cheap and as quickly as possible. For other students it gives them the flexibility to not be constrained by their graduation outline that they have to do for the school. But they\u2019re able to have a great level of flexibility.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> This is awesome. And Scott I want to correct you. You said that you will tell your children to write 100 essays, my cousin Julia is in her first or second year of college, and she sat down with her mom and her mom would say okay the requirements for this are a 400 word essay on X. you already wrote a 500 word essay on that so go and edit out that and we\u2019ll submit that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So you don\u2019t always have to write 100 essays. But one really great essay can be like you could just use that over and over again. And one of my favorite stories for paying for college was this girl, her came to her in ninth grade and said, \u201cIf you want to go to college you\u2019re going to have to pay for it on your own because I have no money.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And the girl my ninth grade I couldn\u2019t have done this but she said, \u201cOkay this is now my job for the next four years my job is to get as much money for college as possible. And she ended up with something like a million dollars in scholarships which itself is just amazing. But she said, \u201cEvery time I write an essay and it takes me three hours to write this essay, but I just got myself $3,000, I just made myself $1000 an hour.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And pimping your mindset and having your kids really understand how awesome this is, it goes back to that tip of going to the college and seeing what your life could be like a just encouraging them also around the whole course and starting early is fantastic. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> And I\u2019ll call myself out here. I was a jerk, my parents encouraged me to do that and I did not do nearly half of it and I\u2019m sorry. So put that out there.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">You look back in your life and feel very bad about that if you don\u2019t do that. If you\u2019re in high now do it now or in college even.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Yes to all you kids that are listening now because your parents are making you. This is going to change your whole life and go back and listen to Travis Hornsby in episode 22 where he\u2019s talking about people who have soul crushing amounts of college student loan debt, that they can\u2019t ever pay off. And a few hours out of your life is going to change your life dramatically, and you\u2019re not even not going to remember those few hours being terrible.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah. One quick note I mean kind of as another avenue of that, then a real resource for scholarships is there are a lot of places where we would just consider maybe kind of starter jobs that are also going to have educational benefits that come along with it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So even during high school or into college, being intentional of where do I want to go and work and what are the criteria that maybe I could use some of this part time employment or if I take a gap year or don\u2019t immediately go into school, use of my workplace as an avenue to be able to access more money. So companies like UPS, Home Depo, Verizon, Starbucks, Lows, they have these places where pretty accessible places to go and work. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">They\u2019re going to have pretty significant educational benefits. In my opinion one of the ones I have recommended to a lot of kids is with UPS, you can be a part time package handler and I think of working as low as like 12 or 15 hours a week. So not super significant hours to kind of impact to your time, and it ends up coming with $5,250 annually in scholarships dollars, up to $25,000 for your lifetime.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So if it that student that their parent says, \u201cHey we can\u2019t provide for college or we\u2019re not going to be able to and we want you investing, this is the kind of thing that I think has a really significant potential for a lot of students to say this is a way where I can make a really strong return, I can be invested in my education through the work that I\u2019m doing.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I even think things like choosing to be a resident assistant if you\u2019re living in a traditional four year college that has dormitories. I mean there\u2019s different outlets like that where you can significantly defray the cost of education. And it\u2019s a way really of being invested in that process, and I think that\u2019s helpful for a kid. I think that gives them a level of ownership about their education process that bears a lot of dividends.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> That UPS job is way outside the box thinking, sit all day people.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> All the time. Okay what about community colleges? I went to a community college just because my grades were terrible and I needed to bring them up in order to get into my fashion design college. Because community colleges are like, well I know I\u2019m going to beat myself horribly they\u2019re lie $50 of credit.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> They\u2019re incredibly cheap. That\u2019s very much dependent upon the state and different states have different philosophies as far as how well they fund community colleges and public colleges. So all across the country you\u2019re going to see wide range as far as what the expense is. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But that\u2019s the place, if a student is not a great test taker necessarily, community college could be a fantastic outlet to start building that credit, demonstrating that they\u2019re performing well and then being able to transfer into another school. Or dependent upon what your goals are, some of the community colleges and local technical colleges that may be all you need.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And you really need an associate\u2019s degree and maybe it\u2019s I want to start down the track of being an electrician, being a welder. I mean some of these jobs where you can be 25\/25 years old and maybe making eighty some thousand a year dependent upon market and job. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And you\u2019re not having to spend four years sitting in classes learning about whatever your particular subject matter is that you hate the most, you don\u2019t have to do that. And you can dive right into maybe a vocational career that community and technical colleges perform an incredible service to be able to open up jobs for students.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay so we\u2019ve talked about scholarships we\u2019ve talked about need based scholarships and merit based scholarships. Let\u2019s say that your kid is a terrible student and you\u2019re rich and your kid is terrible, or let\u2019s say that you don\u2019t qualify for need or merit based and you\u2019re just getting loans and grants. First of all let\u2019s define what a loan and a grant is. A grant is somebody that gives you money, it\u2019s like a scholarship right, and you don\u2019t have to pay that back.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Right. Grants you\u2019re not having to repay, loans you do have to repay. So understanding that difference, so typically when a student goes through the college application process, with most schools they\u2019ll get admitted or denied, they\u2019ll get that information first. And then maybe a few weeks, maybe within two months or so then they\u2019ll end up getting the financial aid package from the school.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">That letter especially as a parent, that\u2019s a much more important letter than just being accepted or not. The kid\u2019s excited about being accepted and denied, the parent really cares about the financial aid package. Being able to understand, okay what is the federal grants so things like PEL Grants or the GI Bill, as a parent you\u2019re going to know that based off of the FASA or if you have prior military experience.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But the merit-based aid from the school that will show up on there. So if it\u2019s a- some may call it the Provo scholarship or whatever the school\u2019s colors are. It\u2019s like here\u2019s the crimson and gold scholarship, they\u2019ll have different names, and it\u2019s got a value amount with it. Typically those scholarships that are going to come from the school, the student has to keep a certain GPA, maybe it\u2019s a 2-5, a 3-0, a 3-5.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">It\u2019s going to depend on the school but that money is typically good for four years. You need to look at and know is this renewable, or is this a one-time scholarship? Sometimes those one-time scholarships most schools don\u2019t do this in my experience, but some schools will kind of frat mode the aid package and give a really nice package for freshman year.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And then sophomore year certain money goes away and as a family you\u2019re left totally frustrated. So really slice that award letter and understand what\u2019s grants, what\u2019s the money I\u2019m not going to have to pay back and really just cuts the cost of education? But then what are the loans? Some schools and really I would almost say most schools are going to bundle loans into that aid package. So it\u2019s is a little bit deceiving and you can\u2019t just look at that bottom line number and say, \u201cOkay this is how much it\u2019s going to cost for my kid, because for most families they\u2019re going to make a critical decision of do we want to take that loan or not take that loan. So you\u2019ve really got to examine where\u2019s the money coming from?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Is it renewable? So is this good for four years? And how are loans factored into it, also how work study factored? Because sometimes they\u2019ll list the federal work-study program, and that can be in my opinion it\u2019s oftentimes going to be better for the student maybe to go work for a place like UPS or some other company that\u2019s going to give an educational benefit than it is to do the work study where it\u2019s just going to be probably a minimum wage job at the school.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay and I want to clarify subsidized and unsubsidized loans because I didn\u2019t know this was the thing either my sister-in-law had a mix of both. I just want to glance over this quickly. What is the difference in that and where does it say that this is a subsidized or unsubsidized loan?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> It should list it, it should be line itemed in the package that says here\u2019s the maximum subsidized loan that you could qualify for. Here\u2019s the maximum unsubsidized loan that you qualify for. So subsidized, that\u2019s a federal loan product. So when we hear and think about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, those are not that I\u2019m sorry, with like Department of Education loans they are going to subsidize a portion of that interest rate.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So it\u2019s going to be at a lower interest rate that the student is going to repay in the long run as opposed to an unsubsidized loan meaning it\u2019s going to be calibrated to prime, and it\u2019s going to be at a higher amount. So subsidized I think right now is maybe those loans that are about 6% and unsubsidized loan might be a little bit higher like a seven or 8% interest rate.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> And doesn\u2019t that start accruing instantly versus waiting until the end you\u2019ve graduated?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> So yes. So different loan products have different guidelines around that. Some won\u2019t start accruing interest until you\u2019re done with school, some you will be accruing interest. So even if you borrowed $10,000, even though you\u2019re not making repayments on it, the interest for that time period that you\u2019re in school and not making payments is building on that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So you get done with school and maybe your principal balance now is actually $10,500. That may be some of what you see, depends on whether the loan\u2019s in deferment or not, those sorts of things.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Actually one thing that I do want to ask about is all this presumes from the first place that the goal is to get a college education, and that\u2019s in there. We haven\u2019t bothered to take any time talking about that. I obviously believe in the college education, path that I took and all that kind of stuff. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Have you noticed there\u2019s any shifting in that thinking lately, or do you think that\u2019s going to continue to be in place, that clearly the goal of middle school, high school, all that is to prepare for average and above average students to get them into a college in an affordable way so they can go into the workforce? Is that foundational assumption correct?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> I think that is a foundational assumption that most people have. But I think the emphasis that has been placed on college specifically being college ready and historically that has been an incredibly effective tool of moving people out of poverty, out of low income and providing a level of opportunity that they may not have had.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I think the challenge for a lot of folks is that the increasing costs to be able to access that opportunity, starts to change the calculation for some people. Because if it\u2019s going to saddle me with debt for decades, then the marginal benefit of that may not be there. I\u2019m also taking four years out or longer and I\u2019m not going and being in the workforce.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And I think the other piece, and this is the challenge is that I think dependent upon the student, a vocation. So I mean the traditional skill trades are incredibly valuable right. I mean my wife and I built a house recently and I was talking with our electrician and we had an electrician was 24 years old. And he was making $83,000 a year.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">That\u2019s ridiculously good money, and he\u2019s not stuck behind a desk. They were joking being an electrician they were saying is better than being in these other trades, because they\u2019re like we\u2019re inside, we don\u2019t have to work in bad weather nearly as much as these other guys. Now potentially if you don\u2019t do your job right you get electrocuted. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So there\u2019s some risk that\u2019s associated with it but there\u2019s really value in that or being a carpenter, being a plumber, I mean there\u2019s all of these other trades, auto mechanic that have a lot of value. And especially if somebody is entrepreneurial, if they have a good sense of business, it may be that an associate\u2019s degree from that local community college, is going to set the student up incredibly well.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So I think your point is really astute that we don\u2019t want to just drive that process and say it\u2019s college or bust. But my goal with families is I want them to get to senior year and they have all options open. If a student makes an informed choice at 17 or 18 and says, \u201cI want to go this path and I think this is what I\u2019m really geared towards, that\u2019s awesome. That\u2019s a great choice.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">What I don\u2019t want to have happen is you get to the end of high school, things haven\u2019t been put in place and now you don\u2019t have an option. You feel like that\u2019s the only thing you can go do. That I think is the place that breeds resentment that ultimately they don\u2019t want to be in the long run. But if it\u2019s a willful choice, I think that\u2019s a great option.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> That\u2019s it. I think this has been a fantastic discussion and my takeaway all the way back to the beginning is like the starts as in the early days even before you even have a child, right it is really where it begins. Like if I can pull a Brandon Turner and buy that four Plex and finance it in a 15 year note, I\u2019ve taken care of all of this before they\u2019re even born.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Right, and it\u2019s going to be a huge luxury when it comes to decision-making down the line. Fast forwarding, it\u2019s taking an active role in your child\u2019s education, teaching in math and reading right, and getting all that kind of stuff. And then going into all the tips and tactics that we get into in high school.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But it really seems like this war whatever the journey really needs to be begun in elementary school and into middle school and really kind of get force there. It\u2019s much harder afterwards to kind of get the wheels turning but not impossible of course. Is that a kind of good way to think about it?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah very succinct summary. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Awesome.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Zach this has been amazing and I\u2019m personally very excited that you sent me this note, because I\u2019m going to use all of this stuff. I\u2019m going to go home and make my daughter listen to this, and she\u2019s going to love it, hi Claire. And I know we\u2019ve discussed a ton of things today and we\u2019re going to put links to all of these fabulous programs and websites and<\/span><span class=\"s3\">\u2026 <\/span><span class=\"s1\">you commented on the show.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">We\u2019re going to put them on the show notes which can be found at biggerpockets.com\/moneyshows64. Okay I think it\u2019s time now for our famous four. The same four questions and demand that we ask all of our guests. Zach, are you ready?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Oh I\u2019m so prepared.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> That\u2019s good, oh that means that you probably have a joke. What is your favorite finance book?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah so I gave this a lot of thought and ultimately I went back to a book that I haven\u2019t read in probably 20 years. So I really can\u2019t speak to whether or not it\u2019s good any more or relevant or not. But I just know it was impactful for me and that was The Automatic Millionaire by David Bach. It was really the first finance book that I read when I was really young.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And I feel like its most simple lesson is make it all automatic. Your retirement deductions, put all of that away, which I feel like is great because then I could be an idiot with my finances, and I\u2019ve already protected myself by paying myself first. So I\u2019ve been thankful for that advice that I received early on.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> It is still a valid book. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Okay, good you\u2019re the expert on that, not me.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> What was your biggest money mistake? And I\u2019m going to throw in a second one here, what is the biggest money mistake that you see families maybe of the type that we were just about making?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah. So as I was thinking about this, I would have to say that I think my biggest money mistake ultimately I ended up buying a car on payments when I was in high school. And I think that set up just kind of an approach for how I used debt that was that even in some ways still working to unravel. And so I think just it set in process some habits for myself that I probably shouldn\u2019t have had or wasn\u2019t as efficient as I could have been with my money.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Second it kind of ought to be to be on that as far as how to be able to what I see with families, is I would say it probably goes to this issue of name brand colleges. I think it\u2019s the families that identify schools that are probably priced too high and that maybe it\u2019s tying too much identity or too much pride in a particular school, and then making a choice that ultimately they\u2019re taking a level of debt that\u2019s maybe not the best choice for them in the long run.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Awesome.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Yeah that\u2019s great advice. Who was it- Scott I\u2019ve been trying to think who it was, I think it was Travis Hornsby who said that he had gotten this amazing scholarship from somebody from a college. But then it turned out to be even cheaper to go to his other college that gave him less or even none because the original college was so expensive. It might have been Travis.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> I can\u2019t remember that one.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Maybe I just made it up then. Zach what is your best price for people who are just starting out?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah. So when I was a high school student I don\u2019t feel like I listened to my mom nearly enough. But I would give my mom this credit of I feel like I\u2019ve come back to this advice and counsel that she\u2019s given me and I give to families that I work with all the time. It\u2019s that every decision that you make opens or closes doors. Every decision you make opens or closes doors. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So the wise person makes decisions that open doors. I think as you go through this educational process this is really true, right. The choices that you\u2019re making in elementary, in middle school, high school, college beyond, all of those provide more or less opportunities for you as you get older. And so just really being intentional on how are you making those choices and living a wise life in that regard.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> That is a brilliant.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> My mom.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Mrs. Gautier, that\u2019s awesome.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Alright, what is your favorite joke to tell at parties?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Okay so I have three little boys, they\u2019re not little anymore, 13, 11 and eight. And they were so excited about this particular question and they have been giving me nothing but jokes. So my favorite dad pun is- so I\u2019ll give you a dad pun and an actual joke. I had a step ladder, I never met my real ladder. So I always liked that one, it made me laugh.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">My kids\u2019 favorite joke that I tell though, is a man\u2019s hiking through the forest, ends up going into this cave. Inside the cave he finds a magic lantern. So he rubs the lantern, out pops the genie. And he\u2019s like, \u201cMy day is made, this is so exciting.\u201d So the tells him, \u201cHere\u2019s the rules of this lantern. You get one wish but there\u2019s an exception. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Whatever you wish for, your mother-in-law is going to get double.\u201d The guy\u2019s thinking. He\u2019s like, \u201cMan this is, what I\u2019m I going to do?\u201d So finally he thinks he\u2019s got it and he turns to the genie and he\u2019s like, \u201cI want to be scared half to death.\u201d It\u2019s called a mother-in-law joke and a math joke.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Perfect. That\u2019s what you can work on with your children when you\u2019re preparing them for the SAT. There you go you\u2019re obviously\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay, well hello little Gautiers. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Yes thank you for the awesome joke. What was the runner up though? What was the next joke?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Yeah you\u2019ve got three jokes and you told one joke.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah. So I found this one funnier than they found. They were kind of like, \u201cDad that\u2019s not that funny.\u201d What did the janitor say when he jumped out of the closet? Supplies! <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> That\u2019s awesome.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> I side with your boys.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> I find that hilarious.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay Zach, that was fabulous. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> So this guy by the way, I just thought of this one. This guy is asking to take off so he can visit his mother-in-law, right. And the boss says, \u201cCertainly not, you cannot do that. You know what the guy says, \u201cThank you so much. I really appreciate. Thank you for understanding. I\u2019m a mother, that\u2019s all<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> To be clear I have a great mother in law. I feel like that needs to go on the record.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Yeah. You had a great relationship with your mother in law until she hears this.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> These jokes are so relatable to all of the high school and middle school students that are going to be listening to this episode.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Yeah all the high school students.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> They\u2019re going to relate directly to mother and father in laws.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> They\u2019re all looking at their parents, mom I can\u2019t believe you made me listen to this. Okay Zach, tell us where people can find out more about you.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah so I would say the best place is probably at my website so triplefitcc.com or <\/span><span class=\"s4\">triplefitcc@gmail.com<\/span><span class=\"s1\"> just shoot me an email. Because really when I think about the college process it\u2019s an issue of there\u2019s three factors that I think are incredibly important. It has to be the right financial fit, social fit and academic fit. If those three things aren\u2019t aligned for a student, they may get into the best school or get into any number of different schools that are great for some kids but not great for them and their family.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> That\u2019s really important. It\u2019s like you done this before.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah few times.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Awesome. Okay we will put links to that in the show notes as well again you can find the show notes at biggerpockets.com\/moneyshow64. Zach this was huge, this was so helpful. I know that we\u2019re just starting middle school in my family I am going to be taking these show notes back with me and listening to the show again in a couple of years when it\u2019s time to start thinking about college. God I feel old. Scott like just graduated from college and I got a kid who is getting ready to go into college.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> I know. Well honestly it is my joy to be able to share this resource that I have but I so appreciate you all. It\u2019s been spends a fun journey for myself of getting to listen to every episode and so I feel like a total fan boy. But I appreciate the opportunity to get to share this little section of it that I really know.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Well we\u2019re glad you love the show and thank you so much for adding so much value to today\u2019s show we appreciate it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Yeah absolutely.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Okay we will talk to you again soon then Zach thanks so much.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Zach:<\/b> Thank you.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Alright that was Zach Gautier. Wow I thought that was pretty impressive. He\u2019s obviously the subject for an entire career and knows everything you can want to know about this.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Yeah. It\u2019s like he\u2019s done this before. One of my biggest takeaways from this actually several of my biggest takeaways from this is look at transfer credit options. I would even go a step further and say if you have a couple of colleges that you\u2019re considering look at the transfer credit options, and see if one only allows like Zach said some allow like 30 or even zero, and others allow up to 90.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">If you\u2019re like kind of on the fence and you\u2019ve got a college that offers 90 credit courses to transfer in maybe that could be the deciding factor especially if you\u2019re having trouble like really deciding. Also intentionally choosing where to work can give you scholarships. Intentionally choosing as a high school kid frankly it didn\u2019t matter to me that I was working at Dairy Queen or McDonald\u2019s.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I could\u2019ve worked at Home Depot and that would\u2019ve given me a better start off on my house flipping anyway. But just the amount of options available if you just a little thought into it, is really one of the biggest takeaways of this whole episode.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Yeah and the other thing is just a tangible dollars and cents that result from studying hard, getting good grades and acing these ridiculously important tests the ACT and SAT. Right I mean like that is real dollars and real stakes for those of you listening that are in high school or as entrant, if you don\u2019t apply yourself there that\u2019s going to limit your options. It\u2019s going to close doors and all that kind of stuff right.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I mean we spend a lot of time on that because it sounds like that\u2019s the fundamental here. Everything else is a tactic. Right everything else is a tip ad a trick and a way to mitigate some of these costs and kind of come up through there right, that is the fundamentals that you got to apply over the course of that time to figure this out and have that shot to get started on a really good playing field and achieve financial freedom.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Right and it starts in grade school. If your kids are in grade school and you\u2019re thinking, oh this doesn\u2019t really apply to me, yes it does. Work on their reading, work on their math. If you can\u2019t help them with their math in grade school in junior high in high school and I\u2019m so glad my husband can help with the Algebra because that\u2019s not my thing.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But if neither of you can help then get extra help outside of your family because this is the thing that\u2019s really going to determine how much money your college is going to give you. And you nobody is clamoring for those D- students.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Yeah. I mean you got to take 100% accountability for your student\u2019s grades and your student has to take 100% accountability for his or her grades.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Yeah so at the end of this show we said goodbye to Zach and then we continued to talk to him for a few minutes and he offered to answer questions in one of our forum threads. Just kind of a Q&amp;A, he\u2019s going to pop on for the rest of this week and answer any questions that you have, or try to answer any questions. I can\u2019t promise that he\u2019s going to be able to answer your questions. But so if you go to biggerpockets.com\/collegequeue, that will take you to a forum where Zach will answer your college questions.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Yeah that\u2019s a new thing we\u2019re trying out I think it would be very exciting. So excited to see what people come up with.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Yeah I\u2019m really excited.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> And we\u2019ll start off with what the third joke was that he was going to tell us.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> Probably another bad one.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Great, you\u2019re insulting his kids not him.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> The kids\u2019 jokes were great. I actually did like the stepladder joke that was kind of funny okay. Okay Scott this went a bit long, so we should get out of here. Are you ready?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott:<\/b> Let\u2019s do it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy:<\/b> From episode 64 of the BiggerPockets Money Podcast, he\u2019s Scott Trench, I\u2019m Mindy Jensen and we are gone baby gone.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>[End of Recording] [01:33:31] <\/b><\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<h2>Watch the Podcast Here<\/h2>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Scholarships and Other Ways to Pay for College with Zach Gautier | BiggerPockets Money Podcast 64\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/PVHEMZCS-6g?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h2>Help Us Out!<\/h2>\n<p>Help us reach new listeners on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/biggerpockets-money-podcast\/id1330225136\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">iTunes<\/a>\u00a0by leaving us a rating and review! It takes just 30 seconds.\u00a0Thanks! We really appreciate it!<\/p>\n<h2>Podcast Sponsors<\/h2>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-102654 no-display appear\" src=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/10\/Blinkist-Logo.png\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 275px) 100vw, 275px\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/10\/Blinkist-Logo.png 3000w, https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/10\/Blinkist-Logo-300x72.png 300w, https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/10\/Blinkist-Logo-768x184.png 768w, https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/10\/Blinkist-Logo-1024x245.png 1024w\" alt=\"\" width=\"275\" height=\"66\" title=\"\">Almost none of us have the time to read everything we\u2019d like to read. Yet we lose countless hours to activities that bring us little joy such as commuting, chores and staring at our phones. What if we could turn these little blocks of unallocated time into precious and rewarding moments for learning and reflection? Founded in 2012 by four friends, Blinkist now connects 6-million readers worldwide to the biggest ideas from bestselling nonfiction via 15-minute audio and text.<\/p>\n<p>Blinkist has a special offer for YOU. It\u2019s a FREE 7 day trial \u2014 just go to\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.blinkist.com\/biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Blinkist.com\/biggerpockets<\/a><\/p>\n<h2>Second Sponsor<\/h2>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"no-display appear alignright wp-image-101508\" src=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/08\/roofstock-logo.png\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 310px) 100vw, 310px\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/08\/roofstock-logo.png 959w, https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/08\/roofstock-logo-300x120.png 300w, https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/08\/roofstock-logo-768x308.png 768w\" alt=\"\" width=\"310\" height=\"124\" title=\"\"><strong>Roofstock<\/strong>\u00a0helps investors buy and own remotely by connecting you with vetted local property managers. Buy a leased single-family rental property for a little as $20K down. Roofstock\u2019s innovative marketplace and concierge service eliminate the traditional hassles of real estate investing.<\/p>\n<p>Signup for free account here: <a href=\"http:\/\/roofstock.com\/bpmoney\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">roofstock.com\/bpmoney<\/a><\/p>\n<h2>In This Episode We Cover:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>How Zach <strong>paid for college<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>The <strong>CLEP test<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>Systematic approach to transform <strong>college options<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>The <strong>best financial choices<\/strong> that somebody can make<\/li>\n<li>Interventions that are very effective for <strong>your child<\/strong> to learn and figure out their love for school<\/li>\n<li>On <strong>helicopter parenting<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>Things parents need to do when their children are <strong>pre-high school<\/strong> and high school age to save for college<\/li>\n<li><strong>529 plans<\/strong> as the biggest avenue that needs to be considered<\/li>\n<li><strong>Brandon Turner&#8217;s approach<\/strong> for his child college education<\/li>\n<li><strong>3 ways<\/strong> to fund college<\/li>\n<li><strong>Dual credit<\/strong> program<\/li>\n<li>How much does <strong>SAT and ACT prep<\/strong> cost<\/li>\n<li>How to apply <strong>scholarships<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>Two college batches when it comes their <strong>application review process<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>His perspective on <strong>brand name college<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>Things that people should <strong>be looking for<\/strong> in a school<\/li>\n<li>Ways to <strong>save money on college application<\/strong> process<\/li>\n<li>Other avenues to approach prior to entering college to <strong>get excess funding<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>What is a <strong>loan<\/strong> and a <strong>grant<\/strong><\/li>\n<li><strong>And SO much more!<\/strong><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Links from the Show<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/paychecksandbalances.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Paychecks &amp; Balances<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.khanacademy.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Khan Academy<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/biggerpockets-money-56-change-personal-finances-millennial-money-mindset-paychecks-balances\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Money Podcast 56: Change Your Personal Finances (&amp; Your Millennial Money Mindset) with Paychecks &amp; Balances<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.fastweb.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Fastweb<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.cappex.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Cappex<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.scholarships.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Scholarships.com<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/bigfuture.collegeboard.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BigFuture &#8211; The College Board<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/myscholly.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Scholly<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/biggerpockets-money-podcast-22pay-6-figure-student-loans-pursuing-financial-independence-travis-hornsby\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Money Podcast 22: How to Pay Off 6-Figure Student Loans While Pursuing Financial Independence with Travis Hornsby<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/forums\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Forums<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/collegeq\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Dr. Zach Gautier&#8217;s forum for Q&amp;A<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Books Mentioned in this Show<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/2Flb31F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>Where You Go Is Not Who You&#8217;ll Be: An Antidote to the College Admissions Mania<\/em><\/a> by Frank Bruni<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/2O8COhT\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>The Automatic Millionaire Homeowner: A Powerful Plan to Finish Rich in Real Estate<\/em> <\/a>by David Bach<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Tweetable Topics:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>&#8220;If you&#8217;re not even able to understand the problem, you&#8217;re never gonna be able to conquer it.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22If%20you&#039;re%20not%20even%20able%20to%20understand%20the%20problem,%20you&#039;re%20never%20gonna%20be%20able%20to%20conquer%20it.%22%20BP%20Money%20Podcast%2064%20biggerpockets.com\/moneyshow64%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Every decision that you make, opens or closes doors.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22Every%20decision%20that%20you%20make,%20opens%20or%20closes%20doors.%22%20BP%20Money%20Podcast%2064%20biggerpockets.com\/moneyshow64%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Use the workplace as an avenue to be able to access more money.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22Use%20the%20workplace%20as%20an%20avenue%20to%20be%20able%20to%20access%20more%20money.%22%20BP%20Money%20Podcast%2064%20biggerpockets.com\/moneyshow64%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Connect with Zach<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/triplefitcc.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Triple Fit College Consulting<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"mailto:triplefitcc@gmail.com\" target=\"_blank\">Email Zach<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Zach Gautier oversees academic and college counseling for high schoolers. In this episode, Zach shares creative ways to fund college tuition\u2014and blew us away with the depth of his knowledge! This show includes tips that apply to kids of every age and can help shave tens of thousands of dollars off your child\u2019s college expenses!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":353007,"featured_media":108724,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[6473],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-108721","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-biggerpocketsmoney"],"acf":[],"comment_count":0,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/108721","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/353007"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=108721"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/108721\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/108724"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=108721"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=108721"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=108721"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}