{"id":111671,"date":"2019-06-06T00:02:34","date_gmt":"2019-06-06T06:02:34","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/?p=111671"},"modified":"2023-02-09T23:18:30","modified_gmt":"2023-02-10T06:18:30","slug":"biggerpockets-podcast-333","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/biggerpockets-podcast-333","title":{"rendered":"A Guide to Getting Started in Commercial Real Estate (+ Laundromats?!) With Ken Wimberly"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Commercial real estate like you\u2019ve never heard it before!\u00a0 <\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">On today\u2019s episode, Brandon and David sit down with <strong>Ken Wimberly<\/strong>, the owner of a Keller Williams commercial brokerage and a commercial investor himself. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ken shares some incredible tips on how to get into owning commercial property, including how to find quality tenants, how to structure the lease, and how to protect yourself from a changing market. He also provides great advice on building relationships and identifying who NOT to partner with. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ken goes on to talk about how he went from working in a pizza restaurant to cashing his first check for 50K as a broker\u2014with absolutely no training program! He shares some incredible advice for opening a laundromat, making huge returns, and successfully investing in other people\u2019s deals, too. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you\u2019ve ever been interested in how to do big deals without big headaches, this episode is for you!<\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/biggerpockets-podcast-real\/id594419649\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Click here<\/a>\u00a0to listen on iTunes.<\/p>\n<h2>Listen to the Podcast Here<\/h2>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https:\/\/playlist.megaphone.fm\/?e=BIGPOC8439382613\" width=\"100%\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h2>Read the Transcript Here<\/h2>\n<div style=\"overflow-y: scroll; max-height: 400px; background: #eee; padding: 20px; border: 1px solid #ddd;\">\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">This is the BiggerPockets Podcast show 333.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> My $5000 that I had invested into that deal I sold for a $147,000 because we created value. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>You\u2019re listening the BiggerPockets Radio. Simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you&#8217;re here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you&#8217;re in the right place. Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> What&#8217;s going on everyone? This is Brandon Turner, host of the BiggerPockets Podcast here with the man in plaid, Mr. David Greene. What&#8217;s up buddy?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Not much man. It&#8217;s going good. I was just watching that video that you edited for me while I was there in Hawaii and you. We had a little surprise ending. It&#8217;s pretty cool.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> That was kind of cool and we\u2019re not going to tell anybody what the surprise ending was. We\u2019re going to make them go watch the video. What was the video called? It was like I forget the exact name, but it&#8217;s five.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> <i>Five Tips for Financing a Property<\/i>. Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> They have renting. It was five tips for renting out your home I think that one was. With the special ending, something like that. Anyway, check it out biggerpockets.com\/YouTube or YouTube.com\/BiggerPockets. Either way you&#8217;ll end up on the YouTube page and watch the video David Greene put out. We had a fun ending, but anyway, no it was fun. I got to play director for a day. I&#8217;m not usually playing the director so you know.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> You\u2019re really good at it. You&#8217;re like that actor that says you know what now I want to go behind the camera and I want to show how deep and diverse my talent level really is.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes, me behind the camera was like jumping up and down like come on David. Woo. It was fun. Anyway.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Mooning me with your white butt to make me laugh.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes, I think we did do that didn&#8217;t we? That&#8217;s not the surprise ending though so don&#8217;t worry about that. Anyway, today show, let&#8217;s talk about today\u2019s show. Today\u2019s show is all about well it\u2019s about a lot of stuff.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Specifically, we talked with a friend of ours named Ken. Ken is a commercial real estate broker and commercial real estate investor. Now, if you&#8217;re thinking well I&#8217;m not into commercial. Listen to this anyway. The advice he has is just so good for anybody, whether it&#8217;s residential or commercial. He talks about how you know why he got started with rentals, but then really that he quickly scaled past his rental properties into something like commercial properties like you know a number of different types there, but we talk about shopping malls. In fact, he&#8217;s getting the laundromats, which you guys are going to be blown away at the discussion of laundromats. I know that sounds like weird, but like listen to the kind of cash and cash returns he&#8217;s expecting in that business. Very cool stuff. We talk a lot about why you know certain types of commercial real estate are very dangerous right now and why some of them are actually like completely recession proof. In fact, it might be one of the best things you can do at this point of the market. If you&#8217;re struggling finding deals, this might be a really interesting niche for you to dig into so definitely listen for all of that and of course, listen later. He&#8217;s got a cool kind of a side project called Legacy of Love. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">He&#8217;s going to talk about that later. If you have kids, you cannot afford to miss that section. It&#8217;s very very cool. Anyway, before we get into that show, enough of talking about the show. Let&#8217;s hear today&#8217;s Quick Tip. Like that. I changed it up a little bit so you know it was coming. All right so today&#8217;s quick tip. Here&#8217;s the deal. We\u2019re talking a little bit about commercial properties today so I thought it would be a cool quick tip to mention, we actually have like recommendations or a directory you could call it of commercial lenders on BiggerPockets. If you go to BiggerPockets.com\/loans, you can look for different companies that will actually help you scale into commercial properties. Like we support anything five units and up, commercial, retail, anything over about $500 grand. Some companies like stack source, branch equity, CBRE and other. If you are thinking about going that route, you want to get preapproved. You want to learn more, you want to come up with these companies. Definitely check it out, BiggerPockets.com\/loans for some options to make your next commercial investment happen so check it out and that is today&#8217;s Quick Tip.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Quick Tip.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> All right, and now let&#8217;s hear from today&#8217;s show sponsor.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>You know, if you&#8217;re thinking about growing your business, knowing your personality will help you build better relationships and get more done. One of the best ways to learn about your personality is of course the DISC personality assessment. It is a simple survey that explains a lot about you. BiggerPockets staff are actually all taking the assessment over the next few weeks and I&#8217;ve done it myself. See if you can guess what I am, but knowing your teammates disc profiles make working together easier and more productive and productive means growth. <\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>That is why I&#8217;m excited to tell you about an easy way to use DISC in your hiring process too. It&#8217;s called WizeHire. Their simple software and expert hiring coaches make it easy to find the best candidates for the job. Here&#8217;s out works. WizeHire helps you write a quality job ad and post your add to 60+ job boards including Indeed, LinkedIn, and Zip Recruiter. Once candidates start applying, WizeHire automatically gives them a personality assessment and stores their score as well as their resume in one place for you to review. Over 3000 small businesses and teams trust wise hire to help them grow. Check it out today. WizeHire.com, that&#8217;s Wize, WIZEHire.com.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">All right, and with that I think that&#8217;s all we got so last thing I&#8217;ll say before we get into the show is actually, I&#8217;m going to say two things. One, if you have not yes left a rating and\/or review for the BiggerPockets Podcast over in iTunes or Stitcher or Google Play, wherever you listen to your thing. Could you do that for us? That helps us a lot. Also, if you&#8217;re listening do the BiggerPockets Business Podcast. That&#8217;s our newest show we just launched. Will you do me a favor and go leave a review for that one as well. They could definitely use some reviews over there since we have like 8,000 on this show. I mean, we like them too, but you know they&#8217;re just starting out so go help our buddies J and Carol Scott. Give them some good ratings and reviews and if you&#8217;re not listening to that show that you definitely should be. It is fantastic. Really really good. I&#8217;m especially looking forward to the one coming up this week so check it out and with that, let&#8217;s get to today\u2019s show with Ken Wimberly.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">All right Ken, welcome to the BiggerPockets podcast man. Good to have you here.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Hey, thanks so much for having me. Appreciate it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes, so today we\u2019re talking about your real estate journey and I know you&#8217;ve done some I don&#8217;t want to call it complex, but stuff that I have not got into. You&#8217;ve definitely, you know pushed into the commercial space. You got a lot of knowledge there, but also you got some cool like family, parenthood stories I want to dig in on. I know little bit about you and your story, but every time I people are always like do know Ken? Like you&#8217;re one of those people like do know Ken, you should really talk to Ken so here I am. Talking to Ken today so this should be good.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Love it, honored, I\u2019m looking. Yes, I&#8217;ve been looking forward to this. We had a brief connect in Go Abundance.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> In back and so I&#8217;ve been excited for this conversation.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Well, awesome dude. All right, well we\u2019ll start at the very beginning so kind of. Can you walk us through like in a minute or two like your story up until real estate. Like how did you get from where you are like where you started, where you, up until your first real estate deal. How you kind of got into the idea real estate.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> You bet. I&#8217;ll go back to age 12.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Okay. We\u2019ll be here long time.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> At 12 years. Yes, let\u2019s go with. Expecting a time machine.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>That&#8217;s good.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Well really so at age 12, I watched the movie <i>Taps<\/i>. Tom Cruise&#8217;s first movie and me and a buddy of mine watched that and we actually went to our parents and said hey, can we go to military school. Like that looked cool. We want to go to military school and six months later I was living in military school in Missouri. You know hundreds of miles away from my home and I went to a private boarding military school for four years and.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Oh.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Bring that up because I think that helps set a little bit of foundation in my life as far as some discipline, leadership, whipping kind of stuff. This is a whole other journey and story on that, but I think when I look at some of the habits I have in my life today I can look back to that time in military school. I graduated military school as valedictorian at 16 years old so I was I skipped a year because as great as military school was, I wanted to get out.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> I was like hey, I want to go see some girls and go to college. Went to Texas A&amp;M my first semester in college I made a 1.2. I went from top of my class is a class of 50, but still I was number one out of the 50. To 1.2 in college and then anyway. Made it through college, ended up with a TCU, Texas Christian University in Fort Worth and starting real estate, studied finance with the real estate emphasis. However, in the middle of my real estate career, America went to war in Gulf War I and I remember sitting on a buddy of mine&#8217;s couch, watching the bombs fly and literally, and the next day I went down to the Navy recruiting office and I signed up for the Navy.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Wow.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> That was basically my junior year of college. I went and signed up for the Navy and so I left college for a few years and went to boot camp, was air crew, stationed in Misawa, Japan and I was a cryptologist. I did Morse code flew around the world listening new on Morse Code. I got out of the Navy and went back to TCU, finish my degree in finance real estate, but didn&#8217;t go into real estate at that time. I had interned at a insurance and investment firm so I was doing basically estate planning life insurance.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Uh oh that sounds thrilling.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> I actually was working for the partners that were doing estate planning life insurance, but.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Even better.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> I was a numbers junkie is so I was building these financial modeling spreadsheets, which you know insurance would you know fund, pay all your taxes and take care of everything and I did that for a couple of years and then got an entrepreneurial bug. I had worked in college as a pizza delivery driver and I loved the pizza. I loved the concept and I said you know what. Actually my buddy of mine from the Navy and I decided we were going to open up a pizza restaurant. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">We struck a deal with the owners of that concept. It was just a small family owned concept. Struck a deal with them, did a licensing agreement and we opened up a pizza restaurant in April of 2000. We ran that for and like the people that were running the existing business were like, \u201cOh man these guys are running it so horribly.\u201d Cash management process that\u2019s so many systems that they just didn&#8217;t have so our plan was to come open five, put systems in place and then create a franchise model and actually franchise the entire concept. That was our.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Okay.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Plan. Somehow, the best laid plans don&#8217;t always work out and within 18 months of us opening, we ended up shutting the doors and as I dissected that venture, I look at all the mistakes we had made and oddly enough, the biggest mistake we made in that whole thing was a real estate mistake.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Really.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Back then I knew nothing about real estate back then and I didn&#8217;t know about the difference frankly between commercial real estate or residential real estate. I didn&#8217;t know there was a different broker of commercial real estate versus like I hired my the residential realtor that repped me on my house to help me go find commercial space.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Oh funny.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> To his credit, he said, \u201cI&#8217;m not maybe the best qualified, but I&#8217;ll do what I can.\u201d We ended up taking double the space we needed, which led to more labor than we needed. Which led to more equipment than we needed, more electricity, more everything that we needed because of a space requirement and you know up while our business increased, month over month, over month over month. It started off so much slower than we had anticipated and our debt just kept amassing during that time and all that extra overhead and space we had ended up being the anchor around our net that caused us to shut the doors and that was a tough thing. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I remember as we were contemplating you know shutting the business down. We had employees that were working for us and they\u2019re relying on us saying it was. We had poured all of our life savings into this business and just hours and hours and hours you know the restaurant business of work we had put into it and we\u2019re sitting there contemplating shutting it down. I remember turning on the TV&#8217;s when we came into work one day. It was September 11th 2001 and turn on the TV&#8217;s and the twin towers were on fire and you know it made me realize that what we thought were just these insurmountable obstacles and problems were just minuscule compared to the real problems in the world.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Well, we&#8217;ve made the decision. We shut it down. We filed actually 10% in personal bankruptcy. It was a real low point in my life. Now I felt like I let my partner down, my wife down, my whole world down right there and you know we had to totally climbed out and rebuild. I stayed in the restaurant business for another year because that&#8217;s what I knew at the time. I went to work as a GM of this regional chain in DFW and enjoyed the work, but I was working probably 70 to 80 hours a week. I was commuting 50 miles each way. Sometimes, twice a day and you know because when you&#8217;re the GM and someone doesn&#8217;t show up. Guess whose job is.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes. Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> It&#8217;s yours and so you know I started to do the math. I was making like 50 grand a year at the time. I&#8217;m like I\u2019m making about minimum wage with this and I&#8217;m miserable and at the time we were eight months pregnant with my first child. I decided something had to change because there&#8217;s no way I was going to just be an absentee father when I had a baby on the way.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> That&#8217;s when I actually got into the real estate business. This was October 2002. I got into the real estate business and I you know. I looked in between residential and commercial, both end all of the brokerage side of the business.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> You know I&#8217;m a finance guy. I&#8217;m a numbers guy. I&#8217;m not a paint and carpet and fancy anything like that and so I really leaned towards that commercial real estate side of my family was in the development business. They developed single-family lots for homebuilders back then and I got an introduction to a commercial broker and you know I went to interview with them. He said, \u201cWell Ken, we\u2019re not like the big shops.\u201d He said, \u201cWe\u2019re a family owned place. We don&#8217;t have a formal training program. We don&#8217;t have a draw. We don&#8217;t have as salary. You probably won&#8217;t make any money for at least a year and you&#8217;re going to need to bring your own computer, but we got a desk and a phone for you.\u201d I said, \u201cWell that sounds good. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Sign me up.\u201d I literally made that was his sales pitch to me and I jumped into commercial real estate world at that time and it was you know 15 hour days, first one in, last one to leave. Just grinding, studying, and he didn&#8217;t have full enough tray of programs. My training was I sat across from him and I listened to every single conversation we had. After every conversation, I would ask what did this mean? What did that mean? Who were you talking to? How does that work? He was so patient with me and he just sat there and answered all my questions and I slowly started learning. I just started grinding. I didn&#8217;t know what product type I was going to focus in, but I was just trying to do everything and you know eventually there was a developer that was in our office and land developer and I went to him. Today, he\u2019s still a great friend and client today. I said, look I&#8217;m a relatively intelligent guy. I was like I know how to you know run analysis in the numbers. I know how to do research. I know how to do some stuff, but I don&#8217;t know exactly what I&#8217;m doing. If you will tell me what you need, I will be your guy. I will go make it happen and he said, \u201cAll right Ken.\u201d He kind of, he laid it out what he was looking for and his company was looking for. He became my very first client and said today we made friends and, but Tom the broker I work for. He had told me it was going to take me you know at least a year to make any money. He was pretty true. It was 11 months before I made my first commission check. It was $1,837.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Oh wow.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> 11 months into the job.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Wow.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> That was a real grind to get to that point. However, the next month I made my first $20,000 commission check. Right because the work I had been putting in, the grinding, and the pipeline that I had started to build, started to pay off and the subs what year I made over a $100 grand. Then every year since, I&#8217;ve made more and more money and had been able to scale my knowledge of team in the brokerage business.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Okay wow. Okay so that is your story to get into the real estate world, which is interesting that you got the degree in real estate finance or finance with you know real estate.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Went kind of that side route with the pizza thing.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes, right.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Which a lot of people do. They get into. They get into something that intrigues them or that they think is like oh well I like pizza or I like restaurants. I think that would be fun to own one so they go that route.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Interesting. I mean we can do a whole show. I&#8217;m sure just on like. Space issues like I&#8217;m sure you could talk forever on that now.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Guaranteed.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> That you&#8217;ve been doing this.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> I want to move on to the next kind of phase of your you know who became a broker, a commercial broker. Can you first describe, for those who are not familiar with the difference between commercial real estate brokers and residential. Explain kind of what the difference is and then we\u2019ll walk into actual like investing here in a minute.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Sure, well there I mean the residential brokerage is everything you think in-home, any homes from small little starter homes to fancy multimillion dollar homes, but a home that you have lived in. In fact, up to you know a duplex, triplex, quadplex. That\u2019s single-family. You get beyond that and you&#8217;re getting into the commercial world so anything from apartments and multifamily is considered in the commercial real estate world. Shopping centers, office buildings, land, churches, self storage facility. Everything that&#8217;s not in a home or house there is in the commercial real estate world and it&#8217;s a broad asset class and so in our world we need to, if you&#8217;re in a major market, you need to specialize in picking asset class there.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> All right. All right, okay so you became a broker, became more and more successful at doing that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Let&#8217;s walk through like when you started actually putting your own money into real estate deals like if you started buying something for yourself. Did you like what does that look like? Maybe even go to the like what does your investing look like today personally? Do you invest in other people&#8217;s deals? I know there&#8217;s some of that in there. I&#8217;m curious of that and then we\u2019ll walk backwards into some details.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Well as I started getting successful in the brokerage business. I mean real estate as an industry is a brokerage is an industry, is a phenomenal way to create cash flow and some good cash flow.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> However, that cash flow it is not wealth. Right, wealth is what we do with that cash flow to invest in long-term assets. How it started produce decent cash flow and had some excess money and more importantly, I was seeing deals out there right. I was out there in the business and seeing deals. I started looking maybe and of course I was watching people put together deals because I&#8217;d represent them. That will. I could, I should start doing some of this on my own. Now I had owned a couple of single-family rentals prior to being in the real estate business. Actually since read <i>Rich Dad, Poor Dad<\/i> like everyone and that kind of got me thinking and so we had bought a couple same family rentals. I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve ever had this experience, but I was managing myself and there was always a sob story. It always a challenge and always an issue and so I found that experience to be kind of miserable.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Oh man, my landlording has been easy easy. I mean I&#8217;ve never had a single okay. I thought so.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes, been there.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> I was in and I didn&#8217;t scale big enough and take enough assets to actually hire a property manager or I didn&#8217;t budget for the hiring a property manager initially so.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> That side was a little bit of pain in the rear to me and I also didn&#8217;t have probably the drive or the wire, the intelligence that I have now to look at the bigger picture. However, so as I&#8217;m into commercial real estate. Once I can start putting together some of these deals and I&#8217;ll tell you an interesting story here. I haven&#8217;t thought about this in a long time.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> The first deal I tried to put together okay, it didn&#8217;t work, but a buddy of mine and I, we saw this ideal corner piece of real estate. Like this is great dirt. We knew it was going to be a hit. I was right at across the street from a major hospital that had just got announced. It was a four-way lit, hard-core to the intersection in 10 acres of dirt. Like this is going to be great. We can put pad sites up on the in. We could put a Walgreens, we could put a restaurant. We could put a storage facility back there that they all kinds of stuff. Things we do so we went and put that dirt under contract and so we made an offer on it. We got it accepted. We put our risk money, put it in title, cut me under contract. We had 60 or 90 days to go evaluate it and do our homework. We went to my cousin and actually said, \u201cHey, how would you like to be the financial partner, the equity partner in this deal with us?\u201d <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Because we had the vision, we had the concept. We had the hustle. We did not have the money. We went to my cousin and said, \u201cHey how&#8217;d you like to back us in this deal?\u201d He said, \u201cYes that would be great.\u201d Said, \u201cI&#8217;ll back you at it.\u201d You know, we keep going through so we start looking for potential tenants. We start doing our homework and figuring out who we would potentially bring to this. Land deals are, they\u2019re a long lifecycle, but this is going to be a great deal. Well you know we get to a week before the expiration of our due diligence and then my cousin comes and says, \u201cHey, I haven&#8217;t been able to raise the money for that deal so I&#8217;m going to be out.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Oh man.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> I said, \u201cWhat do you mean raise the money? You said you were the money.\u201d He said, \u201cThis was your deal and you were in and you were the money.\u201d He goes, \u201cOh, no I was going to try to raise it.\u201d I couldn&#8217;t do it so went out and we made a big mistake. We had assigned the contract to my cousin at the time when he had agreed to come and come be our partner and he actually put some additional earnest money up and he said, \u201cWe are partner.\u201d <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Lesson learned the right there. Never assign your contracts so, but he came. He came to us and it\u2019s literally a week before, a week before the due diligence expires and he said, \u201cWell you can go try to hustle it into someone else and at least make a commission on it.\u201d I\u2019m like that was not what we signed up for. Interestingly enough, I went to a guy that I did not know. Who was a big player in the commercial real estate world, well known. You know went and sat in his office and I pitched the deal to him and said, \u201cHey, here&#8217;s the deal.\u201d I laid out our vision. I laid out our plan and he said, \u201cOkay, I like it.\u201d I said, \u201cBut the due diligence expires in a week and it&#8217;s got to close 10 days after that. Right so he\u2019s got like two weeks of time here. He picked up the phone and his secretary says, \u201cHey how much money do we have in X, Y, Z account?\u201d She said something to him. He\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, we\u2019ll close it in two weeks.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Wow.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> He closed the deal in two weeks. I got paid a<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>$50,000 commission on the deal so it was, it wasn&#8217;t all for naught. I made a nice commission on it. I did not get any equity in the deal. He executed exactly our plan. There&#8217;s now a Walgreens there. There&#8217;s a, yes a couple of restaurants and there&#8217;s a Divita Dialysis. It was validation that for a couple of young hustlers we had a good idea. We just didn&#8217;t quite execute right there.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> That was my first foray into starting to put deals together.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> I love that story and a couple of things I want to point out in there. In the book that Josh Dorkin and I wrote recently, how to invest in real estate. I tell. We talk about this concept called a deal Delta and I like to put names the things so I put a name to it, the deal Delta. Basically is this. To put together any real estate deal and you just perfectly described it. You really need like three things. You need knowledge. You have to know what you&#8217;re doing. You need hustle, somebody actually do the work and then you need the money. You know to be able to pull it off right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> If you have those three things, you should be able to pull off any real estate deal. You should be able to do real estate and where people get stuck all of the time when they&#8217;re trying to get into it, whether it&#8217;s residential or commercial. It doesn&#8217;t matter is they only have maybe one or two of those. They don&#8217;t have all three and I always tell people, just pick two. Like if you don&#8217;t have the money, yes you had the knowledge and you had the hustle and so you went and found the money. I just love it. It&#8217;s a perfect example of that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> You&#8217;re exactly right. Most deals I do today. In fact, almost all the deals I do today. I don&#8217;t bring all three and often times like I&#8217;ve got a development partner that I&#8217;ll bring into most of my deal because his construction knowledge is so much higher than mine and I love having him on the sponsor side of our deals. He and I will go sponsor deals together. We\u2019ll go raise the capital and both of us have lots of Access to capital so we\u2019ll typically go raise the capital. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">He&#8217;s got a better construction knowledge than I have. I probably have more of a relationship capital then he has that I can bring to deals and yes, we\u2019ll go do that. Today, I am invested in office buildings and at least office buildings. I&#8217;ve got a couple of single commit office buildings that just kind of pay rent every month, which is great. We just bought a 50,000 square-foot shopping center last year and this is a great deal. We found one in a small market. I actually have a real estate franchise in the small-market in Texas and we found a 50,000 square-foot shopping center for sale at $22 a square foot, which is really cheap out here in our market.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> At 22 square-foot. We bought it at an eight cap on actuals with about 20% vacancy so we got. We got we put together a great deal. Same thing. We went and raised a capital for it. We put a little bit of our own money into it. Went and raised the capital. Yes, we\u2019re actually now launching our very first laundromat facility into that building. It&#8217;s under construction. We\u2019ll be open in like two weeks so now we\u2019re going to own the real estate. We have a separate business that owns a tenant. That&#8217;s in the real estate. There will be a cash flow operational business.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> That&#8217;s cool. Yes, the laundromat thing you and I talk briefly about that. I think that&#8217;s a fascinating model. Can we deviate here for a second and talk about laundromats for a second. I know you&#8217;re just getting into it, but why laundromats like? Why did you have to do that?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> The laundromat was a fluke okay so, but the laundromat came. This is the beauty. It came from a real estate deal. Okay so in that same town. The town is Abilene, Texas right? It&#8217;s about 125,000 people in this smaller town in West Texas. In that town I have another friend of mine or a client of mine who&#8217;s become a friend and he calls me up, he says, \u201cKen how would you like to invest in the shopping center with me?\u201d Because his daughter is going to a college out in that town and I am the local real estate franchising town and so he says, \u201cHow would you like to invest in the shopping centers?\u201d \u201cTell me more. I&#8217;m interested.\u201d <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">He was under contract for a shopping center. He wanted me to come in and be his partner. I said, \u201cWell let&#8217;s go find.\u201d I had some vacancy. Said, \u201cWell let&#8217;s go look and see if we can find some tenants during your due diligence period.\u201d I was at a real estate conference, looking for a potential tenants for this you know, B minus, C plus shopping center and I came across a laundromat group. I pitched the shopping center to him. I said, \u201cWell send it to\u2014send me the details.\u201d Sent him the details. He got back and he said, \u201cThis is like a perfect laundromat location.\u201d He said, \u201cWell okay what would you need as a laundromat?\u201d \u201cActually, we need a 10 year lease with four or five year options.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cPerfect. Sign here, press hard.\u201d You know I&#8217;m ready to get you to get it all in. I like this is a no-brainer because I pitched out a lease rate higher than any of our other tenants and they\u2019re like no problem.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Perfect and I thought this is going to be a homerun. Well, come to find out the people I was talking to were not laundromat operators. They were actually equipment vendors that were looking for operators and so that got me. They didn&#8217;t have an operator in Abilene and I said, \u201cCan you find one?\u201d They said, \u201cWell we\u2019re looking, but we don&#8217;t have one right now so were not a player.\u201d I talked to that particular guy that asked me to be his partner and he said, \u201cLook I&#8217;m covered up. I have no interest in getting in that business.\u201d I went to another good friend and client of mine. Said, \u201cHey man have you ever thought about this as a cash flowing business?\u201d Says, \u201cLet\u2019s investigate it and we started investigating it.\u201d We kind of looked at each other and said, \u201cLook, you and me are two are cut from the same cloth. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">We\u2019re both big picture deal guys. We love putting stuff together. We are not operators.\u201d Neither one of us are operators. Like we got to get that third component and so we went to a third partner of ours that I had been wanting to get in business with for a long time. It was just an operational master and approached him. Said, \u201cHey would you like to explore this with us.\u201d The three of us started looking into it and it was an attractive business model. Right, it&#8217;s a cash flow business model. It&#8217;s a recession proof industry. Frankly, if anything their business kind of the laundromat gets a little bit better in bad times because people have even less money to afford repairs and being able to buy new washers and dryers and so recession proof industry. It&#8217;s these days like what were doing it&#8217;s all card base systems and no more coins and collecting coins. It&#8217;s all card based systems and we\u2019re using this as a vehicle because we\u2019re oh. You know we\u2019re all capitalists, but we\u2019re also all altruistic people. The three of us, that&#8217;s why we\u2019re good partners together. We want to do more with our lives and with our businesses with our laundromat it&#8217;s a laundromat with a mission we call it. To improve the lives of our customers in the communities in which we work. We\u2019re doing.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> How did you do? Yes, how did you that?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> We&#8217;ve got a kids play area in all of our laundromats. Much like a little Chick-Fil-A type kids play area and we&#8217;ve got reading areas around the play areas where we&#8217;ve got bookshelves and the kids can sit and read. We&#8217;ve got TVs up on the walls that are showing families friendly or positive programming only. No daytime TV. No Sally Jesse Raphael you know junk up on TV that&#8217;s just mind numbing stuff. No news actually up on the TV. It&#8217;s positive programming that we\u2019re showing. We\u2019re bringing in like the score program to come and teach people about. Not all the time. Let&#8217;s say once a month. We\u2019ll bring in the score program to host small business workshops. Teach people about how to start their small business. At tax time, we\u2019sll bring in the score program.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Score.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> To come help folks with taxes. We\u2019ll bring in tutors to help people reading English, which maybe some of the only English reading they\u2019re getting right there. We\u2019re since we figure if we can genuinely help two families a year per store and our tenants they\u2019ll open 105 to 100 stores. If we can help a couple of people a year with every store we\u2019re going to make our little dent in the world. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Again if somebody wants to open their own laundromat, what do they need to get started?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Capital wise or so.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Well like how much capital? What kind of knowledge base do they need? What are the steps somebody has to go through if they want to open one?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> You know, within a year I think okay I&#8217;ll give you our example. Within a year, we studied the industry heavily for about a year. We went to conferences. We talked to other operators. We looked at the industry averages and started so what we&#8217;ve found to do that kind of stores that we want to do, which are 4,000 the 6,000 square-foot locations. Our first 6,200 square feet. It&#8217;s going to take about 1 million to 1.3 million to open each location. That is both from an equipment and a utility expense and a build out standpoint. All things and a little bit of working capital in there as well. It&#8217;s estimated about one, a million and 1.3. You can all day long finance 70% of that. Okay so you&#8217;ve got to bring the remaining 30%. There are the equipment manufacturers themselves will finance. These laundromats where there are lenders, specific to this kind of things. The SPA will finance them. You can do an SPA loan for a 90-10 on there.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Wow.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> As well.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Can you and then I&#8217;m assuming you&#8217;re going to lease like one of your own properties? You&#8217;re going to lease like to begin with. Is that right or are you renting an actual place from somebody else?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Oh, that&#8217;s exactly. That&#8217;s part of our that\u2019s the beauty of our strategy right? Now we&#8217;ve got this 5 to 7,000 square-foot tenants so we will go buy, our strategy is to go buy shopping centers with vacancy.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> No, we\u2019ve got to back filter. Well while we\u2019re in the due diligence of the shopping center, we will underwrite the relocation as a laundromat.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> If it&#8217;s a great laundromat location then that is just extra points we add to that shopping center right there. Then we&#8217;ve got a built in five to 7,000 square-foot tenant that comes in. Not only that, we have other tenants that are natural co-tenants for the laundromat. Like in this` shopping center that we have right now, we&#8217;ve got a buddy\u2019s home furnishing and easy pawn and a CSL plasma. All of those, you know we all hit the same target in the graphic right there. We&#8217;ve got relationships with these existing tenants that will bring our other shopping centers as well.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Well, so that brings up a good question then or I hope it\u2019s a good question. The question I have in my mind is like a lot of people are worried about shopping centers because I mean look what happens to malls around the country now. They\u2019re all\u2014a lot of them are dying right so. Here you are actually getting in like you know, building your portfolio of things that a lot of people are scared of. I mean why do you feel confident about those shopping centers and they\u2019re not going to go the way you know as Amazon becomes more and more a dominant player.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> There are certain things that people are going to always go shop for. Right, why is Dollar General doing so well and expanding at 900 to a thousand stores a year right now?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Those are some of those things that folks will go in and shop for. Even you know I&#8217;m a grocery shopper. I like to go into the grocery store and shop in the grocery store. I mean 3 to 4 times a week because I don&#8217;t like doing huge trip. I&#8217;ve got a local neighborhood grocery store. Groceries got a little bit of a I mean there&#8217;s a lot of stuff happening in the grocery, but in so the pawn pawn industry. People are going to go in to the pawn stores.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> The plasma industry. You&#8217;ve got to be in there, getting a needle stuck in your arm.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> But the plasma. In Buddy\u2019s Home Furnishing Store. That&#8217;s a rent to own kind of deal you&#8217;re going to be in there seeing this. Those kind of tenants that we\u2019re going after.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Are perfect shopping center tenants right there.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes, yes that. We did an episode. I can&#8217;t remember who the guest was. It was probably a year ago now here on the podcast. Mentioned something similar is like these little strip malls. Like we\u2019re not talking about buying a shopping mall with JCPenney in it and Macy&#8217;s falling apart here. We\u2019re talking about like the small thing with the hair salon. People are always going to need their hair done. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> They\u2019re always going to need their nails done.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> They\u2019re going to get their nails, yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes, people like to go get ice cream after a movie you know things like that. Like I am fascinated by that model because again I think they\u2019re such sound logic in there. I mean obviously some industries will change over time, but some things are just going to always be around.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> If you buy it right, if you&#8217;re not buying. My concern as you buy something with a tenant that is a risky tenant and you\u2019ve overpaid for it because it\u2019s on a long-term lease and they signed an over market rent and then you&#8217;re in trouble. In my brokerage business, I advise people against that all the time. I&#8217;m like look you got to really think through all the metrics when you&#8217;re investing in this so. From our investment standpoint we like you know B and C shopping centers that have vacancy in it that we can buy at a discount. We\u2019re buying them right on a pound\u2014you know, price per square foot basis.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Back to your laundromat. How much can somebody expect to make if they buy a laundromat in the area that you\u2019re operating?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> If we kind of looked through we expect that this will return between two and $400-$200,000 getting up to maybe $450,000 at this one location on an annual basis.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Wow.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Okay, and that profit or that\u2019s.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> That\u2019s profit.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Profit. That says profit on that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> In it for a million, you had to put 20% down or 30% down you\u2019re in for $300,000. There&#8217;s a good chance you can make all of your money back the first year.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Within so we expected for, you know we assumed if you finance 30% of it right there year one, after taking that debt service okay, year one you&#8217;re going to be the 30% to 35% cash on cash return. You\u2019d go up to 40%-45% cash on cash within a couple year. That&#8217;s a solid investment right? Now, we haven&#8217;t opened yet. Right, I could be totally wrong.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> We\u2019re getting.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes, we\u2019ll, we\u2019ll.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> However, we.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Take it with a grain of salt.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Talk consultants. We\u2019ve talked to other laundromat operators and we\u2019ve talked with a lot of people.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Here&#8217;s what I find interesting or fascinating or amazing about your story here is like contrast this new business. I mean this almost like this could be an episode of the BiggerPockets Business Podcast too because this is, but it&#8217;s all it&#8217;s all real estate. It\u2019s all related so.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> But like contrast the first deal, the pizza place you did, which was like hey. It would be fun to buy a pizza place. You went and did it. Versus like\u2014this time it\u2019s like we studied the market for a year. We went to conferences on it. We talked to a bunch of operators. Like the difference that I see between then and now just shows your growth as an investor, as a business owner, as a you know. As a you know businessperson. Like I just think that&#8217;s fascinating.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Well and it&#8217;s also you know really important to have the right partners in your business and I&#8217;ve got the right partners in this. Both these guys are growth minded.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Both of these guys are conservative, yet we all have a certain. I mean to be an investor, you\u2019ve got to have a certain risk tolerance out there.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> We\u2019ve all. We\u2019ve all done a great deal of homework and we each bring different strengths table. That right there is a big big help and we have a week.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>We\u2019ve got a weekly partner call. I mean every week we\u2019re on the phone for an hour talking about every single detail that we\u2019ve got going on on this. That\u2019s been going on for months now.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Ken, you had mentioned earlier that you are someone who brings relationship capital to a deal and that kind of implies that you&#8217;re really good at meeting people, knowing the right people, connecting people and you said just now well when we do a deal, you want to get everybody with a different strength can you share a little bit for somebody who hears that and says, \u201cMan, that&#8217;s what I want to do. I want to go meet people.\u201d What are some things you look for in a potential partner? What are some of the expectations that you set? What are some of the things that you see that you say that would be a problem later? I want to avoid that kind of person, a red flag.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes, great question so to think through in potential partners. Number one is a growth mindset. With all my partners, I want something that&#8217;s open minded and realize that no matter how smart we are or they are, they&#8217;ve got a growth mindset and they are looking to learn more and to get better. For me, that&#8217;s important. Integrity, the integrity is the foundation so we say, \u201cWhat would I avoid?\u201d If I know anything about someone being a non-person that does not have integrity, they&#8217;re out from the get-go. If I look and see how they treat other people or talk to other people and they talk down or disdain other people, they&#8217;re not for me. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">We\u2019re looking for the right personnel that is partners, but they need to have, each partner that comes to the table, they need to have a certain skill set. Like my one partner is really really good at construction management in the development side of things. He sees. You can look at a set of plans and you can look at a construction site and see things that I would never see. I would never see and that is so valuable to me and then our operating partner. I mean this guy is just detailed to the nth degree. I witnessed that detail because he ran he ran like all of KW, Keller Williams Membership Divisions at one point and so he was running like six different membership divisions. He was in charge of the commercial company that I was on his executive board and I&#8217;d watched him lead this company for years. It was like that is a guy I want to be in business with. He had an impeccable track record. I&#8217;m looking for certain skill sets and it depends on the challenge we\u2019re facing. What skill sets do we need? It depends on what challenges we\u2019re facing ahead. Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Where do you feel like you picked up the ability to see that in people?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes, that&#8217;s a great question and I think time, me spending time getting to know other people. Okay, I&#8217;ll tell you some of it came, getting out of my comfort zone. I go to a lot of conferences where I have to meet other people and some are small conferences. They\u2019re like 50 or a hundred people. In fact that&#8217;s where I met this one partner that&#8217;s so good at the construction management. We were at a small probably 75 people there. It&#8217;s a real estate exchange conference that we were at and ended up you know, he had commented on a property I had. We ended up going to lunch together. I do not like meeting new people. My first go abundance meeting that I went to was like Tahoe 2015. I knew a couple of people. I don&#8217;t like meeting new people and it makes me uncomfortable right and.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Ah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> It, you know once I get to know him it\u2019s phenomenal. I love it. It&#8217;s just I\u2019m uncomfortable meeting new people. I might be a little uncomfortable in my own skin, but I do it. I put myself out there and I do it and so I think the answer to that question is I&#8217;ve just put myself in that situation some time and had so many times and had the opportunity to meet so many people and I&#8217;m also more of a listener than a talker. I will just listen a lot in my just observing how people react and what they say. How they\u2019re\u2014what their mannerisms are. I guess give me a little bit of insight since I&#8217;m not talking over them. It gives me some time to observe who they are.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> There&#8217;s an irony to this because nobody likes to get outside of their comfort zone of course, but there are some people that don&#8217;t mind those group settings. They actually love them. They get juiced up. These really extroverted people that they get in that big crowd and they&#8217;re like oh my God there\u2019s these new people and they\u2019re that like. It&#8217;s a dog in a room full of new people. It&#8217;s all this stuff to smell right. They just, their tail\u2019s wagging. They\u2019re loving the whole thing. Brandon and I tend to be more like you were\u2014we really hate that to be honest. Like I&#8217;m going in there clenching my fists like this is going to be horrible. I would rather be in several like fights to the death in an arena than have to go to a place where I don&#8217;t know someone and make conversation. I can&#8217;t stand it, but because we don&#8217;t like it you tend to notice things that people that are having a great time just don&#8217;t. If I know, man I really don\u2019t like meeting people and I&#8217;m listening to this person talking. I\u2019m paying a lot more attention to that person to find out well are they are threat or not? Is this a good person are not? Why am I so uncomfortable here? Sometimes you bond with the other guy in the group that also doesn&#8217;t like new people. I think that&#8217;s really when Brandon and I became best friends was at a Vancouver go abundance trip and we.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> We just hung out with each other the whole time because we didn&#8217;t, we don&#8217;t know everybody right. You don&#8217;t know if you could trust him. You don&#8217;t know if they&#8217;re full of it. I think a lot of people struggle with that, but what happens is your tenant is up and on its scanning so hard that you&#8217;re seeing deeper into people than the ones who are just having a good time and it&#8217;s always a party and you end up picking up these traits that you developed almost as like a survival tool because you need it to live in that environment. That&#8217;s what I want to encourage people about. I have found so many times the thing that I thought was why weakness can become a strength if you put it in the right position. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">You mentioned earlier that you started at a commercial brokerage and I wanted to ask you. Why did you pick that from a pizza chain? Like that&#8217;s a huge jump. You did a lot of things that we always say. Oh you worked for a year and you didn&#8217;t make any money yet. You mentored from somebody. We hear that, those stuff constantly, but one thing that was very unique that you said was I sat across from the guy and I listened to what he said and how he said it. I didn&#8217;t just say, \u201cWell who&#8217;s going to train me? Who\u2019s going to be my mentor right?\u201d I need someone to train me this thing. You made it your responsibility and you were smart enough to recognize it&#8217;s not just knowing how to run the numbers or the metrics, it\u2019s how you talk to the person. How do you convey yourself as a trustworthy person who is representing them, not just a salesperson? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">How do you handle the emotional spikes your client\u2019s going through because as we know in sales if you can do that, you can get a deal closed. Man, if you can&#8217;t control your client\u2019s fears, they&#8217;re backing out of the deal and they&#8217;re not going to accomplish their goals. I feel like that ties into what you were saying with I don&#8217;t like meeting new people so I better learn how to do it smoothly and now look where you&#8217;re at. You&#8217;ve got these abilities that most people will or opportunities most people will never have.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> It&#8217;s come around and I love that observation there. It&#8217;s so true. When I mentor people these days or I talk to people. One of the most important skills I tell people that they need is communication skills. Someone&#8217;s coming out of college and going into college. Like go get the communication degree. Learn how to truly communicate with folks and, but yes how did I choose or get in from the pizza business into real estate. Real estate was something I wanted to do out of college. I interviewed at a couple of commercial real estate firms out of college and my emotional intelligence has grown so vastly since back then. I mean I had no skills. I mean no great people skills. No communication skills back then. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I didn&#8217;t have follow-up skills. I\u2019d look at my own kids right now, be come on man get it together. I\u2019d really focus on it, but I didn\u2019t have that back then and so I interviewed at a couple places. I did get callbacks. I didn&#8217;t really follow up and I was just like oh I guess it&#8217;s not for me. I stopped where I was. It was something that I wanted to do from way back then. Why? I didn&#8217;t know. It seemed like just an industry that appealed to me. Right, and I had and that was before <i>Rich Dad, Poor Dad<\/i>. It&#8217;s just an industry that seemed to appeal to me and I knew that I would want to one day invest in that kind of stuff so I figured if I can get into it, learn it, that would be great. It just you know it took a side track for a number of years. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Well I think a lot of us can relate to that because we just know we love real estate. All of our listeners love real estate. There&#8217;s this allure to it that I mean to this day those words real estate will make me stop what I&#8217;m doing and pay attention. If I see them.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes, yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> On the TV, on the news, or I see an article that says, \u201cReal estate. I just immediately think I have to read that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> I think there&#8217;s a lot of people that are the same way. What you get is you&#8217;ve got like this elusive financial freedom and you&#8217;ve got all these people that are hearing the word real estate orbiting around it and we\u2019re like how do I get in there? Where&#8217;s the door? Then we interview someone like you and that&#8217;s what you\u2019re sharing is like this is the road that I took to get in there. That&#8217;s what&#8217;s so fascinating so you\u2019ve told us, you started at a pizza chain. You were working yourself to the bone. You took a huge gamble on yourself. I&#8217;m assuming you set yourself up to where you had enough money that you could go 11 months without making a check. Really 12 because $1,800 isn&#8217;t really money.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Can you tell us from that entry point what your portfolio looks like now? What are the different real estate holdings that you have and what businesses do you own?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Sure so today it&#8217;s I own a commercial real estate brokerage team. Okay they\u2019re being at least advisors. We sell triple net investment properties. We were at buyers and sellers that tripled their investment properties. I&#8217;ve got at Keller Williams franchise in Abilene, Texas. I&#8217;ve got the laundromat. We\u2019re launching laundry love, opening up for active businesses and then we have, I have a separate company that\u2019s just an investment company we use. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">It&#8217;s really just a separate LLC that we use as an investing LLC and then our last company that we just launched is Legacy of Love, parent to child journaling program that we launched. Those are active businesses. Then an income producing properties it&#8217;s single tenant office properties, a couple of those. Some oil and gas holdings. We had some family landholdings that we made investments in almost 20 years ago that a bunch of our family members went in and made some investments 20 years ago. It&#8217;s interesting. I mentioned earlier that the land business is a long-term play and.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> That land that we invested in 20 years ago is just now finally being developed and it&#8217;s being developed into something magnificent. It was a thousand acres of land being developed in this magnificent mixed use property, but also out of that I&#8217;ll say because we ended up with some oil and gas holdings out of that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">We got oil and gas holdings. We&#8217;ve got. I&#8217;m invested in this, some other people\u2019s deal. I\u2019ve got a friend of mine that has a not a REET, but it\u2019s a private fund that is for commercial real estate assets. He actually has two funds. One is for cash flow and the other is for appreciation. I&#8217;m invested in his appreciation fund right now because I was invested in another find he did and it turned out incredibly well. Went back into his next fund right there. I&#8217;m invested into a mixed use development that the guy that I did that first deal with in or that didn\u2019t work out in that I ended up just having\u2014getting the commission on. That guy and I.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Invested in a project together. He developed a mixed use project. In fact, that&#8217;s where I&#8217;m sitting is in the office in that mixed-use project right there. We\u2019re invested in a residential REET and in the shopping center that I mentioned and then we just put a little money in my cousin\u2019s developing some class A multifamily and we&#8217;ve got some funds in that as well.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Nice, so you\u2019re spread out pretty wide. I want to talk about this. I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a bad thing, but it&#8217;s something that you know a lot of people when they\u2019re getting started with real estate, they\u2019re just getting into the game. They\u2019re like I want to do this. I want to do this. I want to do this. I want to do this. Like how do you balance being diversified with focus. Like how do you look at those two things.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes, well everything I&#8217;m doing personally, it&#8217;s in the shopping center business. Right it&#8217;s if it&#8217;s me personally, we\u2019re doing. The reason I have the office buildings is because they house the businesses that I own. Right so.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Personally, right now when we\u2019re anything I\u2019m buying right now personally is we\u2019re looking at shopping centers for future laundromats. All the other stuff I&#8217;m invested in other people&#8217;s deals.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Cool.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Pat Highman made a comment a few years ago that really stuck with me. This was a lot of this happened just in the last probably five years and Highman made a comment and said, \u201cI own a small percentage of a lot of deals and they all add up.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding because I&#8217;ve been trying to just put together my own deals there. You know, I should be putting a little bit of money into other people&#8217;s deals here and.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> It just hadn&#8217;t hit me at that point. Honestly until he made that comment and so. From there, I started you know putting a little money here and there into other folks deals and some of them have really paid off quite nicely. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Hey, I hope you enjoyed today\u2019s show, but before we go any further I did want to bring in one of today&#8217;s show sponsors. Stay tuned and we\u2019ll be back to the interview in just a moment. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>Hey David, you talk about this in your long-distance real estate investing book, but the Internet has totally changed the game when it comes to buying and selling houses right? I know it&#8217;s a big part of that book and our sponsor today is actually a perfect example of this. Fundrise is the future of real estate investing. Really like their software cuts out costly middlemen and old market inefficiencies to let you, the individual investor share in long-term appreciation and cash flow. Fundrise unlocks access to high-quality, high potential private deals from high-rises and multifamily apartments. <\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>Each deal is carefully vetted and actively managed by Fundrise\u2019s team of real estate pros. This is the type of investing that used to be limited to giant institutions, but now you can jump in right from your laptop. You&#8217;re probably thinking how can I keep an eye on my properties? Well Fundrise has you covered. Their real-time reporting lets you know exactly how your projects are coming along so give it a try. With this limited time offer, visit Fundrise.com\/BiggerPockets and get the first three months of fees waived. That&#8217;s right, no fees. That&#8217;s a great deal. Again, go to Fundrise, F-U-N-D-R-I-S-E.com\/BiggerPockets to get started now.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I&#8217;m curious about as an investor, somebody who puts money into other people&#8217;s deals. A lot of people listening to the show right now are looking to raise money from people like you potentially right. They want to go and put together that deal. I&#8217;m curious what makes an investment attractive to you? To a guy like you who you&#8217;ve got some income. You&#8217;ve got some good businesses running in different ways so you got some maybe some money to put into a deal. Like how can somebody stand out to you or to putting that you particular, but that\u2019s a person like you and to make you want to go into a deal with them?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> You know, for me as much as anything it&#8217;s the person putting together the deal right. Do I believe in the person? Do they have a track record? Look, we all started off at some point with no track records so we&#8217;ve all got to do our first deal there.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> I would put money into someone with their first deal if I believed in that first deal. Now I\u2019m not going to deduct the farm on them on their first deal, but I would put money into someone&#8217;s deal if I really believed in that person, in the project they\u2019re working on. The other though for me is it\u2019s got to be an asset class that I believe in. Right and something that I understand and I believe in. If they&#8217;re going into esoteric asset class that I do understand, no thanks. The biggest deal I&#8217;ve ever lost, ever lost we invested money into life settlements. Okay, you know what life settlements are. It\u2019s where people are betting on.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> I don\u2019t even know.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> You\u2019re buying insurance policies on people that are terminally ill. Okay, it&#8217;s the life settlement.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Wow.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Means this and there\u2019s a whole industry out there because some of these people. It was in theory a very viable industry. You know people are terminally ill. They said they had a $10 million insurance policy. Like they&#8217;ve got less than a year or two to live and they said, \u201cLook I can cash out on this policy today and sell it for three or $4 million.\u201d Right and I&#8217;ve had the money today. Someone else has the insurance policy and they created an entire industry out of this. Well, we invested. This is a family holdings we did and we invested $80,000 into this company or into some policies that this company was promoting and later the guy that ran that was indicted and sent to prison and they had.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Oh wow.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> They had falsified underwriting reports and it was just a big mess and we lost a massive amount of money on that deal. I did understand it. Right I mean I understood it in theory.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> I didn&#8217;t understand in the nuts and bolts and so if I can&#8217;t understand it, the nuts and bolts are not. That was a great lesson right where they say you learn from the losers right there. That was a great lesson to me and avoid those things that seem too good to be true. Walk away.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> There&#8217;s a whole lesson on that in <i>Richest Man in Babylon<\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> That&#8217;s what I was just about to say.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> We\u2019re together too.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> One of my, the best piece of advice in that book is don&#8217;t invest in something that you don&#8217;t understand. That simple. Maybe a great deal. Numbers might look on paper. The people might be super influential. If you just hold true to that, that sounds great. I hope you guys make a whole bunch of money. I don&#8217;t get how this thing works. That&#8217;s not my deal. In fact, I&#8217;ve rarely ever heard about somebody who lost money on a deal that wasn&#8217;t breaking that rule or at least one of the rules in that book. I see that all the time.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> There&#8217;s all kinds of asset classes that are out there right then people try to get me to look at or invest in and I just. Like the crypto world, I don&#8217;t understand that. There&#8217;s no way I understand that so.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Same thing as me or cannabis, that&#8217;s another one that&#8217;s coming up all the time.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Everybody is jumping into it I\u2019m like hey that\u2019s really that&#8217;s really cool. Ben Kinney said something I really liked when we interviewed him. He said, \u201cI only want to do stuff that would leave the legacy I want to be remembered for. I don&#8217;t want to be remembered as a drug dealer or a pot buyer so I\u2019m just not going to do it.\u201d Right? He didn&#8217;t say it&#8217;s bad. You shouldn&#8217;t do it. It&#8217;s a bad business. Just he didn&#8217;t, that didn&#8217;t align with how he wanted to remembered. It was very simple. Not my deal. I feel like a lot of the time knowing what to eliminate is a better tool than just knowing how to find a deal. Having a criteria that you can say \u201cNo, no, no.\u201d Makes it a lot simple.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Saying no is an important thing.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> It&#8217;s very important so let&#8217;s get a couple specifics also. It&#8217;s not often that we get a commercial real estate broker here on the show. I wanted to ask you a couple of those questions about the industry, about people who want to get into commercial real estate. Maybe they own some residential and they\u2019re like I don\u2019t know. I want to buy something commercial. I want to buy that shopping center. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I guess the first question I have all\u2014I\u2019ll fire a couple of them at you, but first of all, how do you find a good commercial broker? I mean is it like? It&#8217;s different than residential. How do I find somebody who&#8217;s actually, I want to go buy for example. Me personally, like I want to get heavily into mobile home parks over the next three years. I got a goal of a thousand units in three years. I got to find some mobile home park brokers right? I mean somebody that can deal with that or I want to buy a shopping center. How do I do it?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Well you made the right move. I already introduced you the guy on the mobile home parks right there so.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> That you did. Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Use your network number one, use your network to get introduced to people. The other because right nothing\u2019s better than a, not just a warm introduction, but a validation. When someone says, this guy is it. Right, he&#8217;s done it. I&#8217;ve seen it. He\u2019s valid. Using your network as, if you don&#8217;t have that there are industry associations, commercial real estate industry associations like in Dallas, there&#8217;s more Texas commercial association of realtors. I&#8217;ve met some great clients okay so exactly just that. I met a great client at one of those little coffee and networking events. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Go to some of the little industry or local realtor association, commercial realtor association, trade groups right there. Then CCIM is a phenomenal trade group within the commercial real estate world that is professional brokers didn&#8217;t really understand underwriting of things. CCIM and SIOR are a couple of designations and if you look for brokers that have that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Okay.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> At least they&#8217;re going to understand the underwriting and frankly, both of those designations have a pretty big portfolio of experience required for you to become a member so a couple things to look for.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Okay, yes, that makes sense. I like the network part of that too is yes, I did. You introduced me to.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Buddy.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> To mobile home, yes Buddy and you gave me a couple people to connect with because like you\u2019re just anyway. Use your network.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> That\u2019s what David said earlier. Right in our relationship connection. That\u2019s and I enjoyed that right.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes. There it is.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> He helped someone with a connection. I love that. Right so he said, \u201cOoh you meet so and so.&#8221; That gives me energy, but just going up and meeting people in a random room does not give me energy.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> There you go.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Right, so I love that because we tell people all the time relationships is where it&#8217;s at and then a lot of people they understand the concept, but they don&#8217;t always know how to actually go about doing it. Finding the broker is like finding a fisherman that will bring you fish. That&#8217;s how big people get deals is they\u2019re not just doing a direct mail campaign looking for the fish themselves. They found someone who already has that network established, a bunch of nets out there and they go get the fish from that person. What about when you want to pick a market? What are things that somebody should look for in an area where they want to be invest in multifamily?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Right, for me it&#8217;s the market that you&#8217;re already in. Okay there&#8217;s, unless there&#8217;s just some compelling reason why your market is terrible. There is nothing going in it. I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s the market that you drive that you know and you pass every single day and start with that market. Think of everything you drive by and see on a daily basis right there or that you can go and inspect on a daily basis. Now I\u2019ve invested I mentioned in Abilene, a west Texas market, but I&#8217;m out there all the time. We&#8217;ve got a franchise out there. I unless I\u2019m in someone else&#8217;s deal that&#8217;s in another market, I&#8217;m looking to my local market to invest.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Okay so let&#8217;s say I\u2019ve just hired you to be my coach and I want you to help me find commercial property. Can you give me the steps that you\u2019re going to put me through? Hey David, do this. Learn this part then move on to here, then move on to here and kind of give us an overview of what somebody needs to do if they want to be a multifamily investor.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes, if I would tell someone first, I\u2019d put them through a couple of courses that we can send them to online and have them learn just the basics of industry right there, but if you want to invest. Let\u2019s say first let\u2019s pick an asset class whether it\u2019s shopping centers or a multifamily or office buildings or whatever or stealth storage buildings or mobile home parks, whatever it is. First pick the asset class. Next, let&#8217;s identify everything in your city. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Let&#8217;s say you live in Cleveland. All right, so let&#8217;s identify every property in a five mile radius from where you live right there that is in that asset class. Then we\u2019re going to look up the ownership and the details of all that. Then we\u2019re going to start contacting the owners and start and get to know the owners of each one of those. Not welcoming to the steps of how to they can go about that, but it&#8217;s I heard and we\u2019re just studying these podcasts recently and these. What he said is exactly, go to the tax roles. You can get the basic data from the tax rolls. Then you can go Google the address or the name.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Start getting the phone number or email address. You know, start contacting these people and they can introductions of yourself and learning about their property and their asset. In addition to that, you can set some Google alerts related to your asset class and you\u2019ll get emails every single day related to your asset class and you start learning immense amount just by reading two or three articles a day.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> That\u2019s a good tip.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Related to your asset class.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes. That&#8217;s a great tip. Sorry, I didn&#8217;t mean to cut you off. I just thought man that\u2019s such a good tip.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> The Google.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Look.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Google alerts for your asset class. I&#8217;m going to totally do that today.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> I&#8217;ve done that for several things I wanted to learn about and I get these Google.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Alerts and eventually it was just too much email so I turned them off.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> When I wanted to learn about something, it&#8217;s a great way to do it. You should also by the way a side note put your own name into Google alert and that way if it ever comes up after.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> You get a note.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> There\u2019s a famous skateboarder named Brandon Turner. Then there\u2019s me so.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> You might not want to do that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> I might well yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> What is a Google alert?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> What&#8217;s a Google alert? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> You can go onto your Google account settings and go into. I forget where you go, but you can go. You can Google Google alerts. It&#8217;s in your settings and you can type in any subject that you want to be notified about and you can either get a daily or a weekly email from Google and it will have the different headlines of anytime that name or phrase or whatever popped up in.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Like the top log articles, the top things that somebody wrote.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> People could do this for BiggerPockets and see all the new videos that come out and all the blog posts.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Everyone, everyone should go set a Google alert for BiggerPockets right now.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> There might be a few too many emails.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> There\u2019s your Quick Tip.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> That&#8217;s a great idea actually.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> There is a great tip. All right, so you so just to recap real quick. You know if somebody wanted to get to your spot or you know and get started, you were helping them they should get the education. They really got to like learn what they\u2019re doing here.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> They got to network. They got to start getting the Google alerts. What else can you throw at them?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Learn about the properties that are in your market right there.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Oh yes, the asset yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Start okay. Then when we\u2019re calling them. Oh hey, set up coffee or lunches with the owners of these asset class and just get to know them. Start talking to them. Get known as the local real estate investor that&#8217;s out there. Hey, I&#8217;m looking to invest in this kind of stuff right here. What can you tell me about what you\u2019ve learned? It is amazing how generous people are with their time and what they&#8217;ll share with you and what you can learn from others.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes. That&#8217;s neat. All right, that&#8217;s really really good and again this is fantastic and actually you know David and I have been talking lately about introducing maybe a new segment to the show, which we haven&#8217;t officially done yet, but maybe it will come. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Basically, like I want to like ask people how like how break down like a five-step process to get to where you are today. That&#8217;s pretty much what you just did. You&#8217;re like, \u201cHey if you want to\u2014if you want to invest in commercial deals like I do, do these things.\u201d The funny thing is most people won&#8217;t go out and do them. They\u2019re just going to be like yes that&#8217;s good advice. They&#8217;re not going to go out and do that. I would encourage anybody listening like don&#8217;t just take what he said as like oh yes, that&#8217;s a good idea, but like how can you actually put all that stuff into practice like starting today?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Well and the other thing is so once you start learning then you\u2019re going to learn how to underwrite the properties right? I know you guys have tools to help people underwrite different things and there&#8217;s tools if you take so CCIM, the industry group I mentioned.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Has some great tools that you can use and there&#8217;s other subscription service tools that you can use, but you&#8217;ve got to figure out how to underwrite properties and say set a goal. Underwrite two properties a week. Right? If you sat there and said all right.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> This is my commitment. I&#8217;m going to underwrite two properties a week and I&#8217;m just going to look at. Even if you have no way to complete a transaction today because you come across a homerun guess what? You&#8217;re going to figure out a way to complete the transaction.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes. That is fantastic advice. That&#8217;s another one of those moments where people need to hit that rewind button on the podcast app like two times and like listen to that again because this applies to everybody. You&#8217;re trying to get into industrial, commercial, residential, it doesn&#8217;t matter. Set a goal, how many deals you&#8217;re going to analyze and start doing it. This is like we interviewed the author of the book, <i>Four Disciplines of Execution<\/i>, Chris McChesney recently and that was his big thing. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">It&#8217;s like get some lead measures. Like what is your lead measure? Things that you can act on and do so I love that you said that. Now, before we move on. We got to do the deal deep dive and we\u2019re going to go into the Famous Four and Fire Round, but I want to know more about this Legacy of Love thing. I&#8217;ve heard that you use the word once today and I&#8217;ve heard a little bit about it, but where did this come from? What is it? Kind of walk us through that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Sure, Legacy of Love is it was a passion project is what it was. I\u2019m most important in my life. I am father of three children and husband of an amazing wife. I mean that\u2019s. If I\u2019m not doing those things right then nothing else matters and when my children were very small. In fact my daughter was one and my son was still in the womb I made a commitment to start journaling to each one of them. Just to slow down, not let the moments pass and capture some little moments and it was a cool little exercise at first it was just how cute they were and the little stuff they\u2019re doing and as time went on the entries became quite deep and involved. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I would write about their growth and their involvement in my own personal struggles in our family. I wrote and journaled through the 2008-2009 financial crisis and what that did and what that took to get through during that time actually ended up getting divorced from my older kids mom and I wrote and journaled about those things. It\u2019s just a very private process that I was going through and the intent all along I was going to just do this. Never tell anyone about it and give it to each of my kids at their high school graduation. There&#8217;s going to be 18 years of their life through my eyes. However, over the years I&#8217;ve shared this concept with lots and lots especially dads and then I\u2019d search it with moms and just parents in general.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> I&#8217;m like hey here&#8217;s something you got to think about if you&#8217;ve got kids just saving some moments for them and everyone\u2014always like holy cow. That is a phenomenal idea and I\u2019m I love\u2014a lot of parents are taking action on that and then other folks will start calling me and say, \u201cKen you need to do something with that idea.\u201d It just planted the seed in my head. I actually, you know fellow Go Abundance member, Daniel Ramsey in Vietnam had told me, he said, \u201cKen that is the most amazing idea I\u2019ve heard and if you don\u2019t do anything to that I\u2019m going to take my foot and just kick your ass you know personally I\u2019m that because that\u2019s just a phenomenal idea.\u201d It really the more encouragement I got to start thinking I&#8217;m going to develop something with it. The final straw was I went to a private mastermind through Go Abundance with Jeff Hoffman, the founder Priceline.com.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> I had an opportunity to sit down private with Jeff and tell him about the idea and what I&#8217;ve been doing for my kids and the concept of bringing that to market and Jeff is like that&#8217;s a great idea. You need to move on it and take action and so I did. I spent the last 18 months and we\u2019ve created a cross-platform program me and you can use it on the web, on your phone, on your tablet. It all syncs together like an Evernote or a Onenote type process and a place, it&#8217;s very private unlike a social network. This is a very private thing that you can insert photos, videos, text, voice note, voicemail so you can save like when a little kid leaves you that sweet little voicemail. I remember my son he left this sweetest little voicemail now I keep them forever and they\u2019re gone. I don&#8217;t know where they are. You know eventually the iPhone updates.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Or whatever, but now we\u2019ve got a place where parents can save all that stuff and then pass down for future generations and so this was anyways it was a passion project for years that&#8217;s now become something that I think it will be very big. Our goal is to grow this thing to 10 million subscribers so and today we\u2019ve got like 200.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> That\u2019s cool. Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> We start in here and go to $10 million.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Okay so I mean I know this is a real estate show, but there are a lot of parents that are listening to the show right now. If somebody wants to check it out where do they go?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> LegacyOfLove.App. That\u2019s .app.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Okay.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> LegacyOfLove.app. We\u2019re on the iPhone or the iOS in the Android stores. You can download the apps there. It\u2019s a free download. It\u2019s a free program. It\u2019s a Freemium model so we have some Premium subscriptions and you know what if any of your listeners actually want a premium subscription, we\u2019ll add a discount code pockets. Yes, we\u2019ll add a discount code of pockets and we\u2019ll 20% discount off of any of our Premium stuff if they want it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> That&#8217;s awesome dude. Thanks.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes, you know happy.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> That&#8217;s very cool.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Happy to.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes, I love that because I mean my parents did something somewhat similar and then we\u2019ll move on after this, but like they didn&#8217;t journal every day, but when we were real young. I mean like under two years old my parents wrote a letter to us. Each of the kids, we had four kids in my family and it was like. It was like I don&#8217;t know I think mine was 12 pages long. It took about a year to write it and it was like their hopes and dreams for us. What they were seeing already kind of traits. Just really really cool and then they gave it to each of us on our 12th birthday and we got to travel anywhere in the world we wanted to go on our 12th birthday as a family vacation then when we would go there we open the letter. I did mine. I opened it at Sea World in San Diego. That was my favorite. Like that was like where I wanted to go. Anyway, it was this just yes. It was such a cool thing.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Beautiful story.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Thanks, yes. It was such a great just thing you know. So I don&#8217;t know. I love that like that time invested now that it takes a long time maybe to do stuff like that like the Legacy of Love. Over the years, but man it pays off in memories long term.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Well, the really cool thing so when I did it I thought how much time is this going to take me to do something like this? I just a commit. I\u2019ll do one entry a month. Right because that was reasonable to do one entry a month.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Per kid, but now 15 years later, there\u2019s hundreds and hundreds of entries and I go through them and I look at the evolution of our lives and it is a. It means as much to me as it ever will to them to go back and look through these things. Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> That\u2019s cool.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> That&#8217;s awesome Ken. Well all right so we got to move this show along. This has been fantastic, but I want to head to the next segment of the show and dive deep into one of your deals so it is time for the Deal Deep Dive.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>Hey, it&#8217;s Brandon. I want to take a quick break from this podcast episode to invite you to this week&#8217;s upcoming webinar how to really invest in rental properties the smart way, S-M-A-R-T. That is an acronym and you will find out what it stands for if you come to this webinar. I&#8217;m going to be basically going through the things like how to identify the best type of rental property to buy, the four step daily process that only top investors are using and that you can use as well even if you want just one deal. I&#8217;m going to show you how to run the numbers on a rental property in under five minutes. We\u2019ll even do a real-life deal analysis. It&#8217;s going to be breaking it down using the acronym smart, S-M-A-R-T. I hope you can attend. It&#8217;s going to be awesome. Don&#8217;t waste years of your life and tens of thousands of dollars trying to figure out how to do it. Just come to the online class and see exactly how to get started the smart way. Go to BiggerPockets.com\/SmartWebinar. Again, BiggerPockets.com\/SmartWebinar. I&#8217;ll see you there.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">All right, let&#8217;s get to the Deal Deep Dive. This is a part of the show where we dive deep into one particular real estate investment that you\u2019ve the guest has done so Ken, we\u2019re going to fire some questions at you about one of your deals. You got something in mind that we can drill you on?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> I do. I have a really interesting deal.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> All right, all right so let&#8217;s go through these. We\u2019ll just fire them\u2014you know I think we have eight questions total so the first question. What kind of property is this?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Land.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Land.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> All right.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> How did you find this land?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> I drove by it everyday. It was a piece of property that I drove by every day going back and forth to work. I had seen it. It&#8217;s on my radar and it was much like I mentioned earlier where I saw a valuable piece of property I thought hey we could put a deal together on this. It was actually the same partner that I had structured that deal with. They said, \u201cLook, this is a great property for an office development.\u201d It was a 6 acre. It was actually three different tracks of land on a major road that was due to be expanded down you know in the next couple of years. It was going to be expanded and it backed up to the 17th Green and 18th Fairway of a golf course. I was like that would make such a cool little office development. We should go put a deal together on that. That&#8217;s how it started. Driving by it every day.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> All right. Cool so normally I ask how much was it, but first how did you. I don&#8217;t even know how did you read? Did you read? Did it go for sale or was it for sale or did you reach out to them?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> It was not for sale and we reached out to them. Is what we did.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Okay.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> It was three different property.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> All right, then how.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> When you kind of reached out and we actually had to do mail by one. We couldn\u2019t get him on the phone, but we eventually got all three property owners to respond to us.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Okay, how much was it or were they asking originally. Then we\u2019ll go into the three out of four.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> I think it was total around $600,000 in that one. For the three.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> How did.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Okay.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> How did you negotiate that price?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Because we knew. I was come on at that time I was in land business. That\u2019s what I did everyday was I was in the land brokerage business and I knew what land values were worth. One of the guys really, there\u2019s actually four tracks of land we tried to buy, but one lady was just too overpriced. She thought she had the Taj Mahal there and what she had was a little really crappy.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Little rental home on there that were gone anyway. She still owns that crappy little rental home right there and there\u2019s a beautiful office development surrounding it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> How funny.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Okay, how did you fund this deal?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> OPM.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Other people\u2019s money.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Other people\u2019s money so I actually. I had a good friend of mine that ran a really successful window and door installation business. Had a lot of excess cash and he was always looking to invest in deals and so my development partner and I went to him. We said, \u201cHey here\u2019s the deal we\u2019re putting together. Are you interested?\u201d He said, \u201cAbsolutely.\u201d He was our sole equity partner in that deal so my development partner and I each had a total of about $10,000. We made $5,000 each into it and we put in earnest money and the equity partner put in the remaining amount. We had a bank in our earn as well.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Our banks were lending on land so we had a bank note on as well. He put all the required equity up.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Okay, once you bought it, what did you do with it?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Well, we took it through actually prior to closing on it while it was. While it was in the feasibility due diligence period we took it through the zoning process at the city. Because it was unzoned land or it was\u2014had a default zoning on it so we took it to the city. We did for part of that we did a land plan on it. Laid out what we thought it should be. Then we took it into the city and took about two months to get through with planning and zoning and then the city council, to get zoning approved and then once we closed on it we just kind of sat on it. Is what we did because this was an interesting timing. This was in oh. Oh so I forget, even forgot this part of the story. Here&#8217;s what was going to happen. We were going to start the development on it. We were going to start development on the project. It was going to be a $3 million bank loan to start on our first two buildings is what we were going to do. Here&#8217;s the irony of everything. The beautiful wife that I am now married to was my banker at the time way back then.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Really?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Ee were going to fund a $3 million note to go close and build our first two buildings. The week before closing our equity partner came to us. Got to admit this is 2008. The markets are starting to melt down already. Like residential market had already melted. The commercial market was starting to melt down and he was in trouble on a couple other deals and he came to us he said, guys there&#8217;s no more money. I&#8217;m not going to be able to put any more equity into this deal. We\u2019re not going to be able to pull the trigger and at the time we were devastated. We were like oh no we\u2019re not going to be able to start on this project. In hindsight that was the greatest gift we could have ever received because if we would have started on a $3 million project as the markets were cratering, we would&#8217;ve been in big trouble.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> So.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> But you own the land at least to that point correct?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes, we own the land.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Okay.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> We own the land. It was fully titled and ready to go. Here&#8217;s the interesting part of that story. Markets crash and nothing&#8217;s really happening. The rest of my world starts crashing just you know all the deals I had going in the brokerage business are all falling apart because they&#8217;re all land deals and nothing\u2019s happening to land deals at that point. I was way over extended. At that point in my life had a big old house and you know all the show and it was like an anchor around my neck okay so things were just melting down around me as well. Went to a builder friend that I knew and I went to the builder friend who loved this project. In fact, they were going to be the builder for our office project right there and I said, \u201cHey you guys.\u201d Because he even approached me. \u201cHey we want in that deal. We want in that deal.\u201d I went to him, I said, \u201cAll right, here&#8217;s your opportunity. I am in a place where I need to sell and here&#8217;s your opportunity if you want in the deal I&#8217;ll sell it to you.\u201d I pulled up my closing statements earlier today. It was interesting. I looked at and years and years. My $5,000 that I had invested into that deal I sold for $147,000.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Oh wow.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Because we created value. We took what was just a couple of janky as best as you even rental homes there. We had leveled them. We took it through zoning. We brought this entire. We entitled the property, brought value to the property. We I took $5,000. It became worth $147,000.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> That&#8217;s so cool. That&#8217;s a good good ROI right there.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Exactly a good R. What it was was a blessing. I needed, I was. It was a blessing that it came at a time where I really needed those funds.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes, cool. I guess the last question. I&#8217;ll just kind of wrap up the like what did you learn from the deal? Overall, what did you learn from this experience?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> I really learned that it&#8217;s, you can create something out of nothing. Right, you can create and it&#8217;s not out of nothing. With a vision it&#8217;s an execution on that vision. Right, we had the vision. My partner and I we knew. We sought. We laid it out. We took it through zoning. The council saw it and we were able to entitle this property. We created true value so you can create value out of a vision if you see things that others don&#8217;t and they go take action on seeing things that others don&#8217;t. That was a big thing for me. That was our first. We had seen it before right, but we weren&#8217;t able to see that vision through. In this case we were. I sold my interest and today that\u2019s actually a beautiful. What we had planned. It got modified slightly, but it&#8217;s a beautiful office park today.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Very neat. Very neat.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> All right, well cool. That was the Deal Deep Dive and now before we get out of here. Let&#8217;s go over to the world-famous, Fire Round.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>It&#8217;s time for the Fire Round.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>Our sponsor this week is a company a lot of you have been talking about on the forums called Roof Stock. Roof Stock is a number one marketplace for buying and selling single-family rental homes. Their marketplace of cash flowing rental properties makes it easy to invest in income producing real estate across the US. They connect you with vetted local property managers and all property they\u2019re backed by their industry leading Roof Stock guarantee. You can invest remotely with confidence. Why wait any longer to begin building your passive income stream? Roof Stock makes it easy to become a rental property investor and start you on the path to financial independence. To sign up our free account and start browsing cash flowing rental homes, visit RoofStock.com\/BiggerPockets. That\u2019s RoofStock, R-O-O-F-S-T-O-C-K.com\/BiggerPockets. Create your free account to get started at RoofStock.com\/BiggerPockets today.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">All right, time for the world famous Fire Round. Of course, these questions come direct out of the BiggerPockets forums. You can visit them at biggerpockets.com\/forums any time you should. Ask questions there. There&#8217;s a whole, actually this entire commercial real estate forum there and people if they have more questions they can always jump in there. Let&#8217;s fire a couple of them here at Ken. Number one, Kevin from Beaverson, Oregon asked. He said, \u201cHey my grandfather had a long career investing in single-family houses, but he just gave me some advice and said start with commercial property. I&#8217;m curious. Is that even possible to just jump right into commercial? I always assume it&#8217;s mostly unattainable unless you&#8217;re may be an accredited investor. Any tips for starting out directly into commercial?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> First, sure it&#8217;s possible to jump into it and not have to start with single-family. As I kind of mentioned in my own journey I own two small rentals and then got out of that business pretty quick so. It&#8217;s possible. Much like I mentioned earlier. It\u2019s pick an asset class in commercial. Commercial is a very broad word and a very broad category so pick a specific asset class within commercial real estate. Study it and start small. Right, there are small shopping centers and there are you know power centers and malls. Start small and start with a small multifamily. Start with a small office building. There&#8217;s lots of little stick and brick small office buildings that you could pitch would go buy and lease out to someone so. I think it&#8217;s super doable and it&#8217;s affordable. Start your local market. Learn it. Pick a niche. Stick with it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Beautiful.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> All right.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> All right, next question. This is from Joe Strickley in Santa Barbara. I think triple net leases are some of the best deals out there. I&#8217;d be interested in any thoughts or experiences on which tenants are considered the best. To me, the US postal service has to be on that list followed by Dollar General and then Starbucks and banks. What kind of businesses are best for triple net leases and what kind of commercial tenants do you look for in general?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> All of those are interesting tenants. Let&#8217;s start with the post office. Right, post office, US government guaranteed great tenant to have. Back as far as a credit standpoint. After like everything the devil is in the detail so read some of your government leases and they have. They can have annual cancellations in the leases right there so if for some reason a particular Department did not get funded for that year, your leases can be canceled so like everything the devil it is in the detail. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I do know people that invest in post office and they love them. They post offices have two different types of leases. One where the landlord pays more of the expenses and one where the tenant pays more of the expenses so. So much is in actual reading the actual leases under there. Dollar General, it&#8217;s kind of like the golden child right now. They have great credit. They\u2019re expanding at 900 to a thousand stores a year. They they\u2019re same short sales typically our up here year-over-year on these things. The caution on Dollar General is that I just avoid. A lot of them are really small markets. Like 5,000 people or 1,000 people or. What&#8217;s going to happen if Dollar General does vacate at the end of your 10 our 15 years on your lease.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> What are you going to do with a property and a town of a thousand or 5,000. If you\u2019re in a town of 25,000 or more or 50,000 or more. There&#8217;s plenty of alternate uses for that so I think just be careful on the location and the size of the town that&#8217;s in there. Starbucks, same with Starbucks. Another goldplated credit right there they are popping up everywhere. Solid business model. Here&#8217;s the challenge I find with Starbucks. They\u2019re usually, in great locations. The challenge I find with Starbucks is the rent that they pay on those buildings are so high. Often, it\u2019s you know $40-$50 a square foot in a market that you might be paying $20-$25 a square foot in. If Starbucks goes dark at the end of their lease. Now great news is you can pretty much count on them throughout the term of the lease. If they go dark or relocate, which does happen. You know, watch out and they do relocate on occasion. They were paying $40 in a market that you might release at $20.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> You just lost half of your value right there in your income. Lots of things to pay attention to with these types of leases. I actually wrote, in fact, we can include it in the show notes. I&#8217;ll send you a white paper that I wrote.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Oh please.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> which had about 10 or 12 metrics I tell people to pay attention to when looking at triple net investments because there&#8217;s a lot of things and the rent that the tenant is paying relative to the market rent really affects the value of the property and the amount you&#8217;re going to pay for that property.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Good to know. Hey, just in case people. We kind of jumped through it without talking about it. In case people aren&#8217;t aware, what does it mean triple net lease? What does that mean?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Sure, triple net. Triple nets refer to taxes, insurance, and maintenance so in a triple net lease typically the tenant is paying their pro out of share or if it\u2019s a single tenant building. The tenant will be paying 100% of the taxes of the insurance and the maintenance. The maintenance I kind of go eh because again the devil\u2019s in the details on the leases. Sometimes there are landlord requirements. People calling them triple net releases, but they&#8217;re not true triple net because the landlord may still be required to maintain the parking lot or the structure of the roof of the building. In general, the triple net\u2019s first. The tenant pay the taxes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Insurance and maintenance.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Cool, cool, cool. All right and I like that because it definitely reduces some of the variability, variability. Is that the word I&#8217;m looking for?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> It does.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Anyway.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> When you&#8217;re looking it you know basically the base rent is your income.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes. Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> It makes for easy quick math.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes, that&#8217;s cool. All right, next question. Number three. I&#8217;m selling ownership of from Joey. I&#8217;m selling ownership in one of my companies for $300 K. With the sale though I&#8217;m losing a $40,000 a year salary. If I am just trying to find out, how would you invest the 300 K to try to replace some of that salary? You know I&#8217;ve got a couple rental properties right now, but would you you know pay them off? Or would you buy more rentals or something like what would you do with $300 K if you needed to make some income?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> If I am in $300,000 you know for me I\u2019d go buy a shopping center. Honestly I\u2019d buy.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Okay.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> It&#8217;s the business we\u2019re in. I\u2019d go buy a value add shopping center that had some vacancy. That we could put a couple of tenants in and then increase our NOI and yes if you get $300,000 just think. Get that to a ten cap on there or 10 cash on cash. It\u2019s $30 grand. You get it higher from there. You can almost replace everything.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> So.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> All right. Cool.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Question number four. Andrew Perkins from Kansas City. My wife and I are 30 years old. I have a four-year-old daughter and a new son on the way. I work full-time, oh and both work full-time plus a little extra. We are both on the same page with the ultimate goal of financial freedom through real estate. However, I find myself obsessively researching networking and other things like that to realize this goal. How do you balance work, family, and investing. Any practical tips and experiences would be appreciated.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> I\u2019d prioritize family first. Okay so I&#8217;ll start by saying that I prioritize family first. I also, I wake up early every. I go to bed early and I wake up early. I spend time.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes, you\u2019re Miracle Morning guy right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> What&#8217;s that?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> You\u2019re Hal Elrod. You\u2019re a <i>Miracle Morning<\/i>, Hal Elrod guy right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes, so that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Like you\u2019ve read, yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes, I met Hal at my first Go Abundance conference and I started reading his book on his life out there and that book really shifted. I was already a morning guy, but I was not a purposeful morning guy and then absolutely so now I follow the <i>Miracle Morning<\/i> process. Which doesn&#8217;t take that long to follow that and then get my base start up. I get up at 3:45 in the morning and so to answer your question, I&#8217;m up in the morning. My miracle morning barring the exercise because I do the exercise last, but is knocked out by let&#8217;s say 4:30 or so. That 4:30 to 6:30 time period, that two hours. There are no obligations on me at all. It&#8217;s I\u2019m focused on the things that I need to focus on and sometimes that&#8217;s deal analysis. Sometimes specific projects I&#8217;m working on. Sometimes it&#8217;s a couple of days a week I&#8217;ll allocate email time where I&#8217;ll jump in there and just get rid of all my emails, but it&#8217;s. That&#8217;s the me time. If I was looking to get into real estate investing and do some of this. Wake up early, which requires that you go to bed early. If you everyone needs the more and more and more I read people need seven hours of sleep a night. Right so make sure you go to bed at a decent time to get up early, but that time in the morning, there\u2019s no obligations. You don&#8217;t have your job obligation or your family or your kids or anything and I think that\u2019s some of the best time. For me, mentally, that&#8217;s when I\u2019m at my best is early in the morning.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> that&#8217;s a great tip. Yes, it really really good. All right, well Ken, before we get you out here let&#8217;s go to today&#8217;s Famous Four. These are the same four questions we ask every guest every week, but before we get to them let&#8217;s hear what&#8217;s going on this week over on the BiggerPockets Business Podcast with our buddy, J Scott<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b><i>J:<\/i><\/b><i> Hey Brandon and David. We have a great BiggerPockets Business podcast episode this week. We&#8217;ve got a guy named Roux Hill. He owns a surf coaching resort. Exactly what it sounds like. It&#8217;s a place where you can go to learn how to surf and have a great vacation. He\u2019s used technology. He\u2019s used science. He\u2019s used data to build an amazing business that&#8217;s a lot different then what you would probably expect from a surfer dude. He&#8217;s going to tell as all about how he\u2019s built his business. How he\u2019s built his team and how he&#8217;s built his resort so tune in this week on the BiggerPockets Business Podcast. Okay, now everybody get back to your Famous Four.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> All right, time for our Famous Four. The same four questions again that we ask every guest, every week so Ken, number one do you have a favorite real estate related book?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes, probably the <i>Million<\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> All right, number two. I&#8217;m just kidding Ken.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Yes, <i>Millionaire Real Estate Investor<\/i>. Right Gary Keller.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Okay.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Jay Papasan.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> You know, I read <i>Rich Dad, Poor Dad<\/i> and it was phenomenal and it kind of got me started, but <i>Millionaire Real Estate Investor<\/i> it got me fascinated with things when I read that and it talked about putting the team together and really starting to understand the different components that you\u2019ve put together and to be able to acts fast once you had deal because it had this team in a group that you had so so. That for me was my favorite real estate related books.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> All right, next question. Number two, what is your favorite business book?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> <i>Scale<\/i> by Jeff Hoffman, David Finkel. Incredible book about how to systematize and scale your business.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Cool, actually for whatever random reason have two copies of that book. I don&#8217;t know why, but I have two copies on my shelf so. Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Read it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes, good stuff. Yes, I have read it. It&#8217;s good. It is very very good. Number.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> You have two copies because that book his scaling itself.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> It is.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> It&#8217;s replicating.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> It is scaling itself.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Systemize.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> That&#8217;s it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Well I think somebody sent me one and I think the other one I bought on Amazon.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Probably, I think we got one from Go Abundance I think. That&#8217;s probably what it was.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Oh maybe that&#8217;s what it was. Maybe I got one in.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> When he came to speak to us they sent it to us. All right, number three what are your hobbies?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> We\u2019re a big ranch family. We love time out on the ranch, fishing, hunting, exploring, hiking, shooting guns. I have a problem I\u2019ve collected probably 28 more guns now so you have to get up the ranch and go shoot out some fire power then.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Nice.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> yes, I love travel especially with my family. We usually do one really cool trip every year. We\u2019ve been to Diego Garcia to Costa Rica, to Baja Peninsula in Mexico. Did an epic trip together to Rocky Mountain National Park. The Yellowstone National Park and Grand Teton National Park so love any of that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Wow.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Kind of travel the family and then other hobby is I love adventure and so I\u2019ve done nine Tough Mudder adventure races and I\u2019ll do.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Oh cool.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> My camp here in September. That&#8217;s kind of a little thing of mine I like to do.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> That&#8217;s cool. I was just thinking I might sign-up. I might have signed up for one of them triathlon this week. Well Saturday.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Nice.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> You know, half Ironman this Saturday. I&#8217;m like what do I do after that? Maybe I&#8217;ll do a Tough Mudder. I don&#8217;t know.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Come on. Join my team.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> We\u2019ll see. Yes, yes we\u2019ll see. Number four, Ken what sets apart successful real estate investors from those who give up, fail, or never get started?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> I think a few, I mean there\u2019s a lot of things. I&#8217;ll give you three attributes that I think and one is I think that they understand their why. They understand their kind of purpose and why they\u2019re going about real estate investing. I think that&#8217;s why I wasn&#8217;t a successful real estate investor when I started a long time ago. It was just something that sounded good. Not that I should do, but I didn&#8217;t have the purpose behind it and why am I doing it. I think once we all understand our why it helps us to be much much more successful investors. Number two, I think that they\u2019re willing to make a decision and take action. Because so many people there&#8217;s analysis paralysis and you\u2019ll think yes, I\u2019ll study deals. I\u2019ll look at deals. I\u2019ll think about deals, but if we don\u2019t take action nothing happens. You\u2019ve got to be one.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> To take action and as I mentioned earlier, get out of their comfort zone. Start taking that action and then the third would be they&#8217;ve got to have a certain tolerance for risk. It doesn&#8217;t mean they\u2019re like seeking risk, but every single investment has a certain degree of risk to it. There&#8217;s things we can do to mitigate that risk, but if someone is just ultraconservative. They have no tolerance for risk then investing might not be the best gig for them.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> All right.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Awesome.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Good answers. All right.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> All right Ken last question of the day. Tell us where could people find out more about you?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Well, it even with the email me about any real estate related things. It\u2019s Ken@KWNetLease, N-E-T-L-E-A-S-E.com. Any information on Legacy of Love. It\u2019s Ken@LegacyOfLove.App. On Facebook, you can find me. Ken Wimberley. It&#8217;s actually my Facebook name is Lord Wimberley. There\u2019s a whole other story there. Our Legacy of Love Facebook page. It\u2019s Legacy of Love App and on LinkedIn it\u2019s Ken Wimberley CCIM.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Well dude this has been awesome. Thank you so much for being on the show today. Good luck on the Legacy of Love thing too. I mean like, I mean we talk about of cool stuff today, but I just think that\u2019s such a cool thing so. You know, good luck on that and everybody out there go sign up for it and go check it out because if you&#8217;ve got kids they\u2019re going to thank you in 20 years from now.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Absolutely. Thanks so much, it&#8217;s been great hanging out with you guys.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> All right, talk to you later.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Ken:<\/b> Appreciate it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> All right, that was our show with Ken Wimberly. Awesome dude, awesome stuff he&#8217;s got going on. His story is so interesting to me. Just how his arc of doing so many different things to get to where he is today.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Yes, he&#8217;s got a lot to share and even though he does a lot of different things, there&#8217;s a common thread in all of them and that&#8217;s why he does well because.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> He understands that niche.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes, very very much so so yes I&#8217;m looking forward to see where that goes. I can&#8217;t wait just watch you kind of Legacy of Love thing take off because I think people are going to love that so and yes. Good dude so yes commercial real estate definitely interesting thing. I triple net leases man. I would love to get into that some day. I\u2019m holding off for now because again you got to thicken asset like it. That was one of the most powerful things I think he said today is like he said it numerous times. Pick an asset. Like people like I want to buy you know all sorts of things. Just pick something. What are you going to do? Right? Are you going to do you know whatever. Just pick something. Shopping centers or I&#8217;m going to buy factories or office buildings. Just pick something. Go learn everything you can on it. Set up those Google alerts and get it done. Very very good advice from Ken.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> It&#8217;s very good advice and you gave that to me when we were in Hawaii I&#8217;ve been thinking about it quite a bit. Like it doesn&#8217;t matter what you pick.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> It doesn&#8217;t matter.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> You just have a good thing and then.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Go dominate it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes, yes I actually say that a lot because I\u2019m like people get torn all the time over like what should I do. I don\u2019t know if should go this way or that way or this way or that way. At the end of day it does not matter. It really doesn&#8217;t. You&#8217;ll never know if you picked wrong. Like oh I should have gone into industrial and I went into commercial. You know, no one\u2019s you\u2019re never going to oh I picked the wrong one. Just as long as you pick one and put your heart and soul into it you&#8217;re going to be fine so for those people out there struggling with indecision right now just know that it really doesn&#8217;t matter all that much. Just seek to become the best at whatever it is you choose. It&#8217;s kind of like that way with like this is way deeper than we need to go in this podcast, but I&#8217;ll say like almost with like spouses. You know like I think I&#8217;ve heard people like, \u201cAh I&#8217;m not sure if I picked the absolutely perfect person.\u201d Or you know I really like them a lot, but I&#8217;m not sure if I should get married to them because I&#8217;m not just sure if they\u2019re quite perfect. What if somebody more perfect comes out later? I always generally my advice to those people is like like you&#8217;ll make it good enough. Like just you know if they\u2019re good enough like this maybe is horrible advice, but if they\u2019re good enough go with it. Like if you feel it and you&#8217;re like yes they\u2019re good. Go with it. You&#8217;ll figure it out. Like you&#8217;re going to choose based on your actions whether or not your marriage is good enough so I&#8217;m not saying go marry someone horrible, but just that make sense. Am I just am I crazy here?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> No, I think what you&#8217;re saying is most of us our more powerful than we think we are. We will make the choice that we make.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Thank you for making that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Good. It&#8217;s not the actual choice.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Yes, I&#8217;m better. Yes, yes it\u2019s not like a choice. It\u2019s you have the responsibility to make something good or not good. Stop thinking that like the universe has like this absolute what&#8217;s good and what&#8217;s going to be good and what&#8217;s going to be bad for you. It&#8217;s like you make it good or bad. You control your life. Anyway, off my soapbox and I\u2019m going to go eat some breakfast. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Awesome, well I had a great time today. Thank you for being.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Me too.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> Thank you for being a great host and making the way for a cohost like me, Brandon.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon:<\/b> Well thank you.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David:<\/b> This is David Green for Brandon the philosopher Turner. Signing off.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>You&#8217;re listening to a BiggerPockets Radio. Simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you&#8217;re here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype. You&#8217;re in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. <\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<h2 id=\"podcast-youtube-video\">Watch the Podcast Here<\/h2>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"A Guide To Getting Started In Commercial Real Estate (+ Laundromats?!) | BP Podcast 333\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/h2AySwjh8i0?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h2>Help Us Out!<\/h2>\n<p>Help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review! 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Oh, and by the way, you don\u2019t have to be accredited.<\/p>\n<p>Visit\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/fundrise.com\/biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Fundrise.com\/biggerpockets<\/a>\u00a0to have your first 3 months of fees waived.<\/p>\n<h2>Fire Round Sponsor<\/h2>\n<p><strong><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-medium wp-image-101508 no-display appear\" src=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/08\/roofstock-logo-300x120.png\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/08\/roofstock-logo-300x120.png 300w, https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/08\/roofstock-logo-768x308.png 768w, https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/08\/roofstock-logo.png 959w\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"120\" title=\"\">Roofstock<\/strong>\u00a0is the #1 marketplace for buying and selling leased, single-family rental homes. Their marketplace of tenant-occupied rental properties makes it easy to invest in cash flowing properties across the U.S. and start earning cash flow day one. They even connect you with vetted local property managers, so you can invest and own remotely with confidence.<\/p>\n<p>To sign up for a free account and start browsing cash flowing rental homes, visit\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/roofstock.com\/biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">roofstock.com\/biggerpockets<\/a>.<\/p>\n<h2>In This Episode We Cover:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How he builds <strong>relationships<\/strong><\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How he learned the commercial business <strong>sitting across from a mentor<\/strong> and listening<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How he buys <strong>laundromats<\/strong><\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Investing in <strong>commercial spaces<\/strong><\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><strong>Using OPM<\/strong> to buy land and selling a 5K investment for 150K\u00a0<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How he earned a <strong>commission<\/strong> of 50K on a deal he couldn\u2019t do<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How he chooses his <strong>business partners<\/strong><\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">His <strong>morning routine<\/strong><\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What to look for in a potential partner to <strong>disqualify<\/strong> them<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How <strong>newbies<\/strong> should start off investing in commercial property<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How to balance investing with <strong>family time<\/strong><\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How he <strong>structures deals<\/strong><\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Tips on <strong>owning a business<\/strong> inside your commercial building<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">How he invests in <strong>other people&#8217;s deals<\/strong><\/span><\/li>\n<li><strong>And SO much more!<\/strong><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Links from the Show<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/forums\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Forums<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/webinars\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Webinar<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/loans\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Commercial Lenders<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.stacksource.com\/biggerpockets?r=bhwRx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">StackSource<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/bp.branchequity.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Branch Equity<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/quote.cbresmallbalancelending.com\/biggerpockets\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">CBRE<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/bp-podcast-190building-multiple-passive-streams-income-pat-hiban\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Podcast 190: Building 61 Different Passive Streams of Income with Pat Hiban<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/biggerpockets-podcast-322\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Podcast 322: 3 Things Every Leader MUST Do to Scale with Ben Kinney<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.google.com.ph\/alerts\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Google Alerts<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.gobundance.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">GoBundance<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/biggerpockets-business-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Business Podcast<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Books Mentioned in this Show<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/richdadpoordad\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>Rich Dad Poor Dad<\/em><\/a> by Robert Kiyosaki<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/2QFNOVj\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>Richest Man in Babylon<\/em><\/a> by George S Clason<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/store\/how-to-invest-in-real-estate-ultimate\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>How to Invest in Real Estate<\/em><\/a> by Brandon Turner and Joshua Dorkin<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/2MxWVsF\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>The Miracle Morning<\/em><\/a> by Hal Elrod<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/2Wo9dZ3\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>The Millionaire Real Estate Investor<\/em><\/a> by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/onething\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>The ONE Thing<\/em><\/a> by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan<\/li>\n<li><em><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/2MsHku9\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Scale: Seven Proven Principles to Grow Your Business and Get Your Life Back<\/a><\/em> by Jeff Hoffman and David Finkel<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Tweetable Topics:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>&#8220;No matter how smart the potential partner, it&#8217;s still better to find someone with a growth mindset.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22No%20matter%20how%20smart%20the%20potential%20partner,%20it&#039;s%20still%20better%20to%20find%20someone%20with%20a%20growth%20mindset.%22%20BP%20Podcast%20333%20biggerpockets.com\/show333%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Integrity is the foundation of any partnership.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22Integrity%20is%20the%20foundation%20of%20any%20partnership.%22%20BP%20Podcast%20333%20biggerpockets.com\/show333%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Own a small percentage of a lot of deals because they add up.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22Own%20a%20small%20percentage%20of%20a%20lot%20of%20deals%20because%20they%20add%20up.%22%20BP%20Podcast%20333%20biggerpockets.com\/show333%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Walk away from things that seem too good to be true.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22Walk%20away%20from%20things%20that%20seem%20too%20good%20to%20be%20true.%22%20BP%20Podcast%20333%20biggerpockets.com\/show333%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Saying no is a very important thing.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22Saying%20no%20is%20a%20very%20important%20thing.%22%20BP%20Podcast%20333%20biggerpockets.com\/show333%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;You can create something out of nothing.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22You%20can%20create%20something%20out%20of%20nothing.%22%20BP%20Podcast%20333%20biggerpockets.com\/show333%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Connect with Ken<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/legacyoflove.app\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Legacy of Love<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Email Ken: ken@legacyoflove.app or ken@kwnetlease.com<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/lordwimberly\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Ken&#8217;s Facebook Page<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/netleaseexperts.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Ken&#8217;s Company Website<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Commercial real estate like you\u2019ve never heard it!\u00a0Ken Wimberly, owner of a Keller Williams commercial brokerage and a commercial investor himself, shares tips on how to get into owning commercial property. He also talks about finding quality tenants, structuring the lease, changing markets, and so much more!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":17340,"featured_media":111716,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[4565],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-111671","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-biggerpockets-podcast"],"acf":[],"comment_count":0,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/111671","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/17340"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=111671"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/111671\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/111716"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=111671"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=111671"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=111671"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}