{"id":120541,"date":"2019-12-31T12:00:06","date_gmt":"2019-12-31T19:00:06","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/?p=120541"},"modified":"2021-03-16T14:57:34","modified_gmt":"2021-03-16T20:57:34","slug":"pushing-back-against-real-estate-investing-gurus","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/pushing-back-against-real-estate-investing-gurus","title":{"rendered":"Pushing Back Against the Gurus (&#038; Why It&#8217;s So Important)"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>One of the things I like the most about BiggerPockets is that it has created a low-cost hub for aspiring real estate investors to learn the fundamentals without either starting from scratch or paying some of the exorbitant costs of the various real estate gurus that had come to dominate the real estate education space in the late-&#8217;90s and early-&#8217;00s.<\/p>\n<p>Of course, BiggerPockets is also a good place for seasoned investors to brush up on their knowledge or get specific questions answered, but that&#8217;s beside the point of this article.<\/p>\n<h2>Good Gurus, Bad Gurus, and BiggerPockets<\/h2>\n<p>Now, I certainly don&#8217;t want to bash all gurus. The term &#8220;guru&#8221; itself is a bit mushy after all.<\/p>\n<p>Jeffrey Taylor (or <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/2016-06-15-real-estate-investors-learn-mrlandlord\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Mr. Landlord<\/a>), for example, is one of my favorite real estate educators. Some might refer to him as being a guru or perhaps riding the line a bit.<\/p>\n<p>By an extreme standard, the writers here on BiggerPockets could be considered gurus, even though most of us are here to simply build our reputation, credibility, and &#8220;brand,&#8221; as well as just contributing for the joy of writing and educating. A few have a book to sell but not much more than that.<\/p>\n<p>Certainly, there&#8217;s a spectrum of sorts when it comes to gurus. And the best place to start when evaluating them is <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/2016-08-03-real-estate-investors-learn-biggerpockets-the-businesswebsite\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">John T. Reed&#8217;s helpful guru rankings<\/a> (although I don&#8217;t necessarily agree with all his rankings and BiggerPockets doesn&#8217;t necessarily endorse his views either).<\/p>\n<p><strong><em>Related:<\/em><\/strong><em> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/2013-08-31-difference-between-a-coach-and-a-guru\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">What\u2019s the Difference Between a Coach and a Guru?<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n<p>That being said, many gurus back then were charging several thousand dollars for what amounted to a few three-ring binders. Or sometimes over $10,000 for a &#8220;weekend bootcamp&#8221; and two free &#8220;coaching calls&#8221; or something like that. While some of them were legitimate, many were overpriced and some just outright absurd.<\/p>\n<p>On the other hand, BiggerPockets charges $20 per <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/store\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">book<\/a> and most of the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">other content is free<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-107444\" src=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/02\/man-on-computer.jpg\" alt=\"man sitting at desk working on a computer\" width=\"702\" height=\"336\" title=\"\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/02\/man-on-computer.jpg 702w, https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/02\/man-on-computer-300x144.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 702px) 100vw, 702px\" \/><\/p>\n<p>Unfortunately, it would seem that gurus are making a bit of a comeback, particularly on social media. Again, major clarifications are in order.<\/p>\n<p>Most of the real estate investment folks out there are just trying to build their network and credibility\u2014and perhaps sell their book or <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/podcast\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">podcast<\/a>. And paid-coaching is not, in-and-of-itself, illegitimate. But still, I am starting to see more and more of that expensive coaching and the like being offered.<\/p>\n<p>And many are using some of the same talking points as before. Talking points that Drew Sygit so helpfully pointed out in his list of &#8220;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/2016-05-31-21-traits-scammy-real-estate-investment-guru\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">13 Tell-Tale Traits of a Scammy Real Estate Guru<\/a>&#8221; here on BiggerPockets. No. 6 really rang true with me: &#8220;They avoid talking about risk.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>Indeed, many of them make it sound like investing in real estate is the modern-day equivalent of receiving manna from heaven.<\/p>\n<p>The perception of risk-free investing that many gurus were selling is one of the reasons I&#8217;ve felt so compelled to emphasize my mistakes and the challenges we&#8217;ve experienced while growing a real estate investment company\u2014be it regarding <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/biggest-landlord-mistake-screening-fail\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">property management<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/due-diligence-gone-wrong\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">due diligence<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/2015-02-04-confessions-serial-mistake-makerreal-estate-success-failure\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">just in general<\/a>, or with regard to <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/2015-08-26-5-lessons-i-learned-from-real-estate-disaster\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">specific deals that went sideways<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;ve been joined in this effort to provide a more realistic look of what real estate investment is like by <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/2016-01-02-biggest-mistake-investor-avoid-it\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Sterling White<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/2016-04-21-my-biggest-mistakes-in-real-estate-investing\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">David Van Horn<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/worst-real-estatenightmares-true-and-heres-it\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Whitney Hutten<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/biggest-property-management-nightmare\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Engelo Rumora<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/biggerpockets-money-podcast-100-brandon-turner\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Brandon Turner,<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/biggerpockets-podcast-303-brandon-davids-10-biggest-investing-mistakes-and-how-to-avoid-them\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">David Greene<\/a>, and many others here at BiggerPockets.<\/p>\n<p>Even Joshua Dorkin would make the point that you should expect to probably lose money on your first flip! BiggerPockets is certainly doing its best to bring a little realism to a great\u2014but by no means easy\u2014business.<\/p>\n<p>But for the gurus who charge thousands of dollars for this, that, or the other, real estate is basically a sure thing as long as you follow their &#8220;one &#8216;secret&#8217; technique&#8221; (No. 2 on Drew Sygit&#8217;s list of guru warning signs). Indeed, many such gurus aren&#8217;t even predominantly real estate investors (if they are at all) but are effectively full-time gurus.<\/p>\n<p><strong><em>Related:<\/em><\/strong><em> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/real-estate-investing\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Ultimate Beginners Guide to Real Estate Investing<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n<h2>Why We Should Push Back More<\/h2>\n<p>Again, this requires some nuance. Many so-called gurus aren&#8217;t that bad. But particularly for the more egregious ones, we should do our part to make it clear that 1) there are better and cheaper alternatives for education, and 2) real estate investment is far from being easy riches.<\/p>\n<p>Yes, I still firmly believe <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/buy-and-hold-vs-flip\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">real estate is the best investment around<\/a>, but it takes a lot of hard work and plenty can go wrong.<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-117296\" src=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/10\/skeptic-woman-main.jpg\" alt=\"close up portrait of a very skeptical curly haired woman staring at your eyes straight\" width=\"702\" height=\"336\" title=\"\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/10\/skeptic-woman-main.jpg 702w, https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/10\/skeptic-woman-main-300x144.jpg 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 702px) 100vw, 702px\" \/><\/p>\n<p>We should do what we can to guide people away from expensive and often scammy &#8220;education&#8221; toward the much more affordable, collaborative, and higher-quality stuff you&#8217;ll find here at BiggerPockets or at many REIA groups, etc. These gurus often make us look bad as an industry and charge people way too much.<\/p>\n<p>But another reason to push back has come to light recently, as well. Often these gurus pitch their product by making it sound like they are just swimming in money:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>&#8220;Make a fortune in real estate.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Travel the world in a gold-coated G-5 jet while your tenants pay your mortgage.&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;How to invest in real estate without doing any actual work!&#8221;<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Or something else along these lines. (Yes, I know I peppered in a little hyperbole.)<\/p>\n<p>In <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/proposed-landlord-restrictions-devastate-investors-housing-industry\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">a previous article<\/a>, I discussed the various restrictions being passed or proposed against landlords and real estate investors throughout the country. What inspired that piece was a recent proposal in Kansas City for a &#8220;Tenant&#8217;s Bill of Rights.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>The <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/kcrei\/permalink\/10156759401605496\/?__xts__[0]=68.ARAYJbJz-LJOBlrpYOSQzk-0jWlu22RkMxezPkOHeYN1h-60mYLBnLDnvDTII0DDAfLyPK3SaQ-2y4DhT2wgLw4FwkR_JBGIAhSV4a3KGxQbkIe-0luVQh03LefAO4IFpOsh_UZ93BBBrNANZAN0IetUuUrAAW2gdjWYjUG7_n2sC7KWRHA38nnYgP7odHfjkZaXz8USsCOhSc5sPpD_XAh86PLVzDA4I4BrXs-vrv33R34VBroonuZZcJbIJjiLKb-ETykBTxCibrGcYrBoe_KrPrxTC-v-tigKGX_13t8BxzPhjHBqdzlld7eMGD6CY4m-LfDcYSTatA&amp;__tn__=H-R\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">first draft<\/a> basically made it illegal to screen tenants for evictions or felonies. (The <a href=\"https:\/\/www.kansascity.com\/news\/politics-government\/article238315408.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">law was passed<\/a>, but the screening restrictions were softened and made reasonable.) It was readily apparent listening to many of the various tenant&#8217;s rights activists that they had the strong perception that landlords were all rich and most of the rent these tenants paid went directly into the landlords&#8217; pockets.<\/p>\n<p>This perception is by no means new, but it&#8217;s also very incorrect. As I pointed out <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/proposed-landlord-restrictions-devastate-investors-housing-industry\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">in that article<\/a>,<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;There seems to be this myth that property owners just sit back and collect checks. In reality, the primary way most property owners make money is by equity build-up through appreciation and principal pay down\u2014not cash flow&#8230; For high-priced, coastal markets, this is basically a universal truth. This is less true with multifamily than single family houses. Although\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/cbre.vo.llnwd.net\/grgservices\/secure\/North%20America%20Cap%20Rate%20Survey_H1%202019.pdf?e=1575084333&amp;h=20533a0de67ed2e217099a9d96b35560\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">according to CBRE<\/a>, the national average cap rate (which equals the annual profit of a property bought if there is no financing) was only 5.2 percent for infill and 5.49 percent for suburban multifamily properties in the first quarter of 2019. The cash flow is nice for the long-term investor, but it\u2019s not exorbitant, and it\u2019s by no means the primary way real estate investors work toward becoming wealthy.<\/p>\n<p>&#8220;Furthermore, the stereotype that investors make a fortune off poor people in bad neighborhoods is simply untrue. Ben Leybovich has made <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/2015-03-03-why-you-cant-make-money-on-30000-houses\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">an extremely strong case<\/a>\u00a0that houses bought for under $30,000 simply do not cash flow, because the operating costs exceed the rental income.\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/2016-01-26-vast-majority-investors-stay-fard-class-properties\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">The evidence is overwhelming<\/a> that one needs to be a specialist to succeed in such areas.&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Most of the operating income, especially for single family houses, goes to the operating costs and debt service.<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-119816 size-main-slider\" src=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/11\/high-school-702x336.jpg\" alt=\"no-network\" width=\"702\" height=\"336\" title=\"\"><\/p>\n<p>It may be difficult to convince tenant activists that most landlords do not make much in cash flow (unless they have no debt, in which case they could just as easily by stocks with that money). But instead, they mostly build wealth slowly through principal paydown and appreciation.<\/p>\n<p>We can start by actually saying these things (as well as pointing out that almost every landlord used to be a tenant at one point in their life)!<\/p>\n<p>Not only will this benefit new investors by giving them a realistic view of what they&#8217;re in for as well as <em>how<\/em> real estate investment (at least on the hold side) builds wealth so they don&#8217;t go in with false expectations, but it will also help stem the tide against much of this new legislation\u2014much of which seems to be based on a misplaced resentment.<\/p>\n<p>It&#8217;s impossible to say for sure, but I&#8217;ve become more and more convinced that one of the unnoticed contributors to this sentiment is the gurus online, shouting about how much money they make, how easily they made it, and how for a simple fee of $3,000\/month or whatever, they&#8217;ll let you speak to them on the phone for 30 minutes and read their super-secret blog or something like that.<\/p>\n<p>The guru marketing campaigns you see littered about Facebook and the like have seeped into the culture at large and convinced a substantial number of regular folks that a handful of super-wealthy landlords live a life of luxury off their rent while doing virtually nothing else. It&#8217;s false.<\/p>\n<p>But perceptions matter more than reality when it comes to passing legislation.<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m not generally one to pick fights, but some pushback is in order here. No, it is not easy to make a fortune in real estate. Those who say it is are lying.<\/p>\n<p>No, it is not free money, and your tenant doesn&#8217;t just &#8220;pay your mortgage for you.&#8221; It requires a lot of hard work and wise investments. And no, if real estate investing was so ridiculously profitable, you would not waste your time selling coaching.<\/p>\n<p>For any sort-of-gurus out there riding the line, please think twice about the way you present your products. And for the rest of us real estate investors and landlords, even if it&#8217;s just some Facebook comments, responses on Twitter, a few blog posts or podcasts or whatever, we do need to start pushing back against the gurus.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/store\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-114267\" src=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/08\/5.2.jpg\" alt=\"ad-bookstore\" width=\"706\" height=\"125\" title=\"\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/08\/5.2.jpg 706w, https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/08\/5.2-300x53.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/08\/5.2-702x125.jpg 702w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 706px) 100vw, 706px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><em>Do you have any personal experience with &#8220;gurus&#8221;?\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Share the good and the bad below!<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Most real estate investment content creators are just trying to build their network and credibility\u2014and perhaps advertise their book or podcast. And paid-coaching is not always a waste. But still, as expensive coaching and guru-type programming pops up, legitimate investors should consider the harm this is causing. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1689,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[5528],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-120541","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-real-estate-news"],"acf":[],"comment_count":0,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/120541","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1689"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=120541"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/120541\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=120541"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=120541"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=120541"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}