{"id":95203,"date":"2017-12-28T00:02:50","date_gmt":"2017-12-28T07:02:50","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/renewsblog\/?p=95203"},"modified":"2023-02-09T19:08:41","modified_gmt":"2023-02-10T02:08:41","slug":"biggerpockets-podcast-259-old-school-investing-wisdom-60-years-mike-anderson","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/biggerpockets-podcast-259-old-school-investing-wisdom-60-years-mike-anderson","title":{"rendered":"Old-School Investing Wisdom from 60+ Years with Mike Anderson"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">One of the most impactful moments for most real estate investors is meeting a \u201cmentor,\u201d someone older and wiser who can share with them the lessons they\u2019ve learned. That\u2019s exactly what today\u2019s episode of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/podcast\" target=\"_blank\">The BiggerPockets Podcast<\/a> is! <strong>Mike Anderson<\/strong> has invested in real estate for over 60 years, doing everything from <strong>buying 200 houses per month<\/strong> to owning a mortgage business to storage units and more. On today\u2019s show, he dives into his story and the lessons he\u2019s learned over the past half-century and offers insight and wisdom that newer investors need to hear. This conversation is fun, fast-paced, and filled with knowledge, so hang on for a wild ride! <\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/biggerpockets-podcast-real\/id594419649\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Click here<\/a>\u00a0to listen on iTunes.<\/p>\n<h2>Listen to the Podcast Here<\/h2>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https:\/\/playlist.megaphone.fm\/?e=BIGPOC6258041499\" width=\"100%\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h2>Read the Transcript Here<\/h2>\n<div style=\"overflow-y: scroll; max-height: 400px; background: #eee; padding: 20px; border: 1px solid #ddd;\">\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>And this is the BiggerPockets podcast Show\u2014what number are we on, Mindy?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Uh, Brandon\u2014this is the BiggerPockets podcast Show 259.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Woo!<\/p>\n<p><i>\u201cMoney\u2019s where the volume is and that\u2019s kind of what I believed in\u201d.<\/i><\/p>\n<p><i>You\u2019re listening to BiggerPockets Radio. Simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you\u2019re here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you\u2019re in the right place. <\/i><\/p>\n<p><i>Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. <\/i><\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>What is going on, everyone? This is Brandon, the host or co-host of the BiggerPocket podcast today, here with my guest, co-host or host, Mindy Jensen. How are you doing, Mindy?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>I am doing wonderful, Brandon. Thank you very much. How are you doing?<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Man, you know what? Life is good. Christmas is over now, which you know, we recorded before Christmas but whatever. What a stressful holiday.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Oh, my goodness, I can\u2019t believe it! I do random comments.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Good, good. No, things are good. If all is scheduled to go the way I think it\u2019s supposed to go\u2014and again, we\u2019re recording this a few weeks earlier. I should have both my apartment and my mobile home park closed here by the end of the month. So it should be any day now.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Well, that\u2019s very exciting. I\u2019m super excited for you. We\u2019re going to have to go and take another episode to really dive deep into your investment and your experience with the 1031.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>We will have to do that.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>You mobile home park, very excited about that.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>There you go. Well, cool. Cool. All right, well whatcha been up to? Anything fun? Anything exciting? I haven\u2019t had you on the podcast in a while so we need an update.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>I know. So, Scott and I have started our new podcast.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>That\u2019s right. That\u2019s coming out here in just a few days from now.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>January 1<sup>st<\/sup> is our very first episode and we are getting ready to record. We recorded several episodes already but we were really hoping to get a first guest on\u2014a very special first guest\u2014can I say who it is? I don\u2019t know. We haven\u2019t recorded it yet. I think I\u2019m going to tease you and say you should listen in on January 1<sup>st<\/sup>, kick start 2018 by listening to Mindy Jensen and Scott Trench interview a very special guest.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Wow, that\u2019s a good tease.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>We\u2019re going to talk about money. We\u2019re going to talk about finances in general. What are the biggest questions that we get in the BiggerPockets forum at BiggerPockets.com\/forums is how do I get started investing with no money and bad credit and I know you wrote the book on investing with no money. But you, Brandon Turner, can invest with no money. I don\u2019t know about your credit. I\u2019m assuming it\u2019s not terrible. It\u2019s that I don\u2019t want to\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Not too shabby. You know. However, I just found out yesterday my wife is beating me on credit score. That made me sad.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>I beat Carl!<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Did you?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>I beat Carl all the time and it was funny because for a while, I was a stay-at-home mom. So I had no income and he had an income and I have a better credit score. So I guess the moral of that story is don\u2019t have a job?<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Don\u2019t have a job. Yeah. There you go.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>That\u2019s a great idea! So anyway, back to the question.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>So you\u2019re launching a podcast.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>We\u2019re launching a podcast, airs January 1, about finances.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>It\u2019s about how to be rich with money.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>How to be rich with money. Exactly. No, we want to help you fix your no money and bad credit situation.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Is this only for people with bad credit and no money? Is it the only people who listen to the show\u2014we know the show is for everybody who wants to be smarter with money. What\u2019s the show called? Do you guys have an official name yet?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Around the office, I call it the S&amp;M Podcast, the Scott and Mindy Podcast, but apparently that has different connotations and yeah, I can\u2019t call it that. I think it\u2019s going to be called BiggerPockets Money. But we will see in a couple of days when it comes out.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>All right, when it comes out, make sure you listen to it and then write a review of that show as well. We\u2019re going to launch, hopefully, the biggest personal finance podcast on the planet. That is the goal here. So, with that, let\u2019s get into today\u2019s show.<\/p>\n<p>Before we do, I want to get to today\u2019s <i>Quick Tip<\/i>. All right, today\u2019s<i> Quick Tip <\/i>is very simple. Next week, like the first Wednesday in January, we\u2019re doing a special once-a-year, we\u2019re going to call it How to Make 2018 Your Best Real Estate Investing Year Ever. And I\u2019m going through how to make a plan for the full year, how to really kickstart your investing, how to do all that stuff. So go to BiggerPockets.com\/webinar if you\u2019re watching this webinar or listening to it about the time that this comes out and sign up because it is going to be life-changing.<\/p>\n<p>And I did this a year ago. I did How to Make 2017 and people like thought it was the best thing ever, so I\u2019m going to repeat it, tweak it, change it, make it a little bit more closer related to this year, what the market is like today and how to find deals, how to fund them, how to set a plan, how to set your goals. It\u2019s going to be epic. So, BiggerPockets.com\/webinar. That\u2019s your <i>Quick Tip. <\/i><\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>And that is Wednesday, January 3<sup>rd<\/sup>, 2018. What time is that, Brandon?<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>I think it\u2019s going to be at 4:00PM PT but I might change that so go check the site and go see what time it\u2019s at. I got a couple of days to figure it out.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Okay. BiggerPockets.com\/webinar. So, thank you very much, Brandon, for that <i>Quick Tip<\/i>. I will say that I\u2019ve sat in on some of your webinars and they\u2019re always really, really, really great.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>You\u2019re pretty good at what you do.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>I\u2019ll give you your $20 later for saying that.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yep. All right, let\u2019s get to today\u2019s show. I want to hear a quick word from today\u2019s sponsor, though. Let\u2019s bring him in.<\/p>\n<p>Today\u2019s sponsor is FreshBook. So if you are a real estate hustler, you\u2019ll probably end up billing people for stuff quite often, like late rent, contracting work, etc. I know that I do, which is why I am a huge fan of FreshBook and I recommend them all the time. FreshBook is an incredibly easy to use invoicing software designed to help entrepreneurs get organized, save time invoicing, and get paid faster. You can also use it to keep track of your employees\u2019 hours, track expenses, and generate awesome reports. So bill like a boss. Try FreshBook free for 30 days. Go to FreshBook.com\/BiggerPockets and enter BiggerPockets in the \u201cHow Did You Hear About Us\u201d section when signing up.<\/p>\n<p>All right, big thanks to our sponsor as always. Now, without any further delay, let\u2019s bring in today\u2019s guest. Mindy, today\u2019s guest is somebody that you have been bugging me to get on the show for a while now because you said he has the best stories of any guest we\u2019ve ever had and I don\u2019t disagree. This guy is a riot in a lot of ways.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>He\u2019s been investing since way before your mother was born.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>I think that\u2019s true.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>I can\u2019t even say that he\u2019s been investing before you were born because that\u2019s nothing. He\u2019s been investing\u2014that doesn\u2019t accurately convey how long Mike has been investing in real estate. Mike has seen it all and done it all. He currently owns a mortgage company and he talks about financing. In this episode, he talks about general mindset, what newbies need to do to get going.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>This is like old school advice for newer and older investor. It\u2019s just like, how do you condense down 60 years of real estate knowledge into one episode? This pretty much does it. You guys are going to love it. Should we do it?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>This is a really awesome episode. Let\u2019s bring Mike in.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>All right, Mr. Mike Anderson, welcome to the BiggerPockets podcast. We\u2019re glad to have you here.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Well, thank you for inviting me.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, this will be a lot of fun. Now, you came on the show because you are friends with Tim Shiner, correct?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>That is correct, a very dear friend of mine. Very sharp man.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>And he\u2019s got a very good episode. Mindy, what number is that? Do you remember off the top of your head?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>That was Episode Number 221 with Tim Shiner where he talked about, his phrase was, \u201cBuy from me and tear up your lease for free\u201d.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Oh yeah, that\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>He means that, too. And if you buy a house from his wife, he\u2019ll tear up the lease and though she makes commission on the houses she sells\u2014it\u2019s really a pretty good deal. It\u2019s good for both parties involved.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>I have heard from so many people who have said that is such an excellent tip. And you know, it makes sense. It\u2019s like a no-brainer once you hear it but I don\u2019t think as many people listen to it or think of that as they should.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Yeah, well most people are in this business and investors are not being in real estate business anyways, so it\u2019s really a great idea with what he does with renters. Tim owns a lot of expensive property in the nice Dallas area, so he can get away with it. He\u2019s got a lot of demand for him. So they make money doing it. But I think he would do it just because he\u2019s a good guy. I don\u2019t think he does it to make money. I really believe that. That\u2019s the way Tim is.<\/p>\n<p>But you know, talking about investors, one of the questions\u2014well, you\u2019ve got some questions, Mindy, you want to ask those first or you want to just carry on here?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>You just do what you want and I\u2019ll just jump in when I feel like it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>When I had an earlier podcast from a gentleman and they were asking me about particularly novice investors or new investors in the market, one of the questions they asked me was how I got into it. Well, I was working for my dad\u2019s company when I had just gotten out of college and my dad owned an appliance store company and large parts distributorship for Southwest and sold parts and refrigeration parts and I had no clue I wanted to go into real estate or anything like that so one day, a guy was in the office and buying some parts with us, and he said I want to sell my house. You want to buy it? And I said, well how much do you want for it? He said $3250. I said, how much down? He said, $500.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Wait, what? $3250? Three thousand\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Well, this is 55 years ago.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Okay. I\u2019m sorry, continue.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Well, that\u2019s how long I\u2019ve been doing this. I\u2019ll never forget this story because it\u2019s a true story. Anyways, it was $3250. He wanted $500 down and $50 a month. So I bought it and I put up a rent sign in my dad\u2019s store because plenty of customers came in. I waited a couple of days and had it for $100 a month. And about three months later, my wife and I were building a house and we were short on budget. We went over budget. So I called a friend of mine who was in the mortgage business. Red was his name. I said, Red, I need to sell this house and get some cash out. I said, what can this house do for you. He went and looked at it, he said it\u2019ll bring $11,000. And I said, $11,000? I just paid $3250 for it. He said, yeah, so I put signs up in my dad\u2019s store and I sold it in three days\u2019 time to a couple. And I made about $8000 on it in three months\u2019 time. I didn\u2019t have to do any repairs on it or anything. I sold that paycheck.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Real quick, what would that house be worth today, do you think? What would you guess?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>$100,000.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>But we\u2019re talking about 55 years ago so it\u2019s been a while. So I talked to my dad. I said, Dad I just made $8000 in two or three months and I didn\u2019t do any work on it so I started buying and selling houses. Two or three a month, making pretty good money. $15,000 a month. $20,000 a month. And this was right after I was out of college. So I told my dad I was resigning and he said, no, you\u2019ve got to stay here for six months because you\u2019re a valuable part of the operations. So I stayed there six months and did real estate on the side. So I was buying and selling four or five houses a month and I learned a lot from buying and selling houses. I didn\u2019t make a lot per house. A lot of investors back then, if I could make $3000 or $4000 a house, that was sufficient for me. But if you\u2019re doing three or four a month or five a month\u2014so the one thing I would tell investors is, buy right. In other words, you\u2019ve got to buy under market to buy houses.<\/p>\n<p>I later on was buying as many as 200 homes a month. I actually had a lot of credit with FHA in Washington, D.C. I could borrow a million dollars from in Washington to buy their foreclosures. So it got to be a big business with me, maybe three or four years after I went into the business. But what I found is three things about people that are buying houses. One of the things they do that I don\u2019t particularly like is they go to these seminars and they buy these books and tape. They\u2019re $1500 or $2000 about how to make a million dollars in real estate business with no damn work. And all those books need to say, when you open up to the first page is, \u201cgood damn luck because that ain\u2019t gonna happen\u201d.<\/p>\n<p>So I\u2019ve been on the stage many times with people that wrote those books. They all have experience doing it but not nearly the experience, in my opinion, to be telling people how to make money. And they really don\u2019t tell people what I think is the essential to make money. It\u2019s called hard work. I can tell you that most investors\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>It really is, Mindy. It\u2019s all about hard work. So if you\u2019re the type of passive investor that thinks that you\u2019re going to go buy a house and rent it or flip it, whatever the case may be, first of all, you have to set your objectives. And your objective may be two or three different things. Particularly if you\u2019re looking for rental property. A lot of people are buying rental property for retirement. They want to buy a house, pay for it for 15 years. They may be 50 years old when they retire and they want to live on their income from that house.<\/p>\n<p>Those types of people are buying more expensive homes, in my opinion, or buying homes in the $300-$400K range or whatever it may be in your particular area. And they are generally better school districts. That\u2019s an important thing for investors to look at. What school district it\u2019s in because school districts in the metroplex of Dallas, you could be two blocks away, same house, and one be in one school district and rent for $1000 more than the other one that\u2019s not in as good of a school district. So I think it\u2019s very important for people to look at school districts when they\u2019re buying real property. But there\u2019s two basic differences in rental property. There\u2019s one that\u2019s called cash flow and that\u2019s all you\u2019re buying is cash flow. And the other one\u2019s appreciation.<\/p>\n<p>So a guy that may be buying appreciation may have a job somewhere else and this is a sideline for him. He\u2019s looking for retirement. He may be making $100,000 a year or $150,000 a year and he\u2019ll buy one in a pretty god neighborhood and make cash flow of $300-$400 a buck which is not enough to cover expenses by the time you do maintenance repairs, reserves or upkeep, etc. He\u2019s breaking even on it. And his hope is over ten or fifteen years, that house will go from say $300,000 to say $450,000. $425,000, whatever\u2014depending on what the market is. You have no control over that.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s one type of investor and in my opinion those investors should look at five to fifteen years because they\u2019re not looking for cash flow. They\u2019re looking for appreciation. And that house will be paid off. A 30-year note pays down 25% for the first five years\u2019 worth, 15 will pay down 10%. So if you\u2019re buying it as an investment tool to retire on, look at a 15-year note because the payments are about 15-18% higher than a 30-year note and the equity build is so much better.<\/p>\n<p>The other side of that coin is buying for pure cash flow. And I can tell you this unequivocally that the least expensive homes you can buy is going to cash flow better. For example, I\u2019d rather have three $100,000 homes than one $300,000 home. Because the three $100,000 homes will rent for $1500 a month while a $300,000 home may rent for $2500 a month. So the cash flow is significantly different between the more expensive homes. The more expensive homes, the less cash flow you\u2019re going to get in return on your dollar. But they have more appreciation potential so that\u2019s what buyers need to identify going in, is what their goal is. Because a lot of them I talk to have no\u2014well, I\u2019m just buying real estate to make money. For what reason?<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Does that make any sense to you?<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>You know, this is a big debate we hear on the site all the time. Do we buy it for cash flow or do we buy it for appreciation? Why is somebody buying it? Where do you draw the line? Where do you think somebody should aim for appreciation and where should somebody aim for cash flow?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I think the guy that aims for cash flow needs the cash to live on or is building a portfolio or the guy building for appreciation or retirement has enough income to where if he loses $300-$400 a month on houses, it\u2019s not going to set him back any at all. So there are two entirely different products and that\u2019s what these investors don\u2019t do, in my opinion, is identify what their goal is. I mean, how are you going to buy real estate if you don\u2019t know what your goal is? Keep it, flip it, buy it and sell it. Now, flipping houses, that\u2019s an entirely different situation. But I can tell you that in my opinion, it\u2019s not an opinion, it\u2019s a fact, as far as I\u2019m concerned\u2014I\u2019m highly opinionated and I highly believe in my own opinion. Just because I\u2019ve had a lot of experience doing this. I\u2019ve never made any money the easy way.<\/p>\n<p>I can tell you a story and this happened when I was about 25 years old so it was 49 years ago. I used to keep a book and when I was driving down the street and I saw some houses I thought, \u201cFor Sale by Owner\u201d or a house that was deserted, I\u2019d go back and I\u2019d look it up in mapping plans and find the owner, call him on the phone, go, \u201cMy name is Mike Anderson. Are you interested in selling your house?\u201d Yes I am. How much do you want for it? And we\u2019d try to make a deal and most of them would hang up on me because I was trying to steal their homes. And that\u2019s true, I\u2019ve never told anybody they were getting a good deal because they weren\u2019t getting a good deal.<\/p>\n<p>Anyways, I was driving down the street when I was about 25 years old and I saw eight homes on this main street and one of them had a rental sign on it. So I went back to the boss and I called and his name was Evelyn Sibley. I\u2019ll never forget it. She lived in Texas, a suburb of Dallas. And these houses were worth $18,000. I called her on the phone and I said, \u201cMiss Sibley, I\u2019m a real estate investor. I\u2019m interested in buying your rental home. Are you interested in selling?\u201d She said, yeah, I\u2019m thinking about selling. How much would you give me for them? And I said, I\u2019ll give you $64,000 cash for all eight of them. And she went off on me like\u2014I mean, she said she called me a thief, a crook, every kind of name in the book, cussed me out and said I would never deal with you. You\u2019re a damn crook and slammed the phone down on me. So I was like, she was telling the truth. I was trying to steal her homes so why would I be upset with her? I wasn\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p>So, anyways, I had this little book, a green spiral notebook and I wrote a million dollars on the outside of it. I wouldn\u2019t get rid of that book until I made a million dollars. So these people I had called over the years, I put in this book and I\u2019d call them every Friday afternoon because you never know. If you catch somebody who wants to sell or doesn\u2019t want to sell. So every year for three or four years\u2014I\u2019m not kidding you\u2014it actually took me five years. I called her on the phone every Friday afternoon. It was about ten seconds, our conversations. I\u2019d say, Miss Sibley, this is Mike Anderson\u2014she\u2019d go, you\u2019re the crook that\u2019s trying to steal my homes. Don\u2019t ever call me again, slam the phone down. And after about two or three years\u2014totally true story\u2014after about two or three years, I\u2019d go, Mike, what is wrong with you? That lady is never going to sell and I would go, if it takes ten seconds a week, who cares? It\u2019s not bothering me. I don\u2019t have anything to do on a Friday afternoon. Fridays were slow in the real estate business.<\/p>\n<p>So one Friday, after five years, I called her on the phone and she was crying. And I said, Miss Sibley, what is wrong with you? And she said, I cracked my rib today and some guy snuck up behind me and hit me in the head with a pipe and took my purse along with my money in it and drove off in my new Cadillac\u2014I don\u2019t know what I\u2019m going to do. And I said, oh Miss Sibley, I\u2019m so sorry. Would you like to sell your house? And she said, yes, I want to sell it. I drove down there that night, 30 miles, at 6:00 o\u2019clock at night. Signed the contract. I made $80,000. That was 49 years ago so figure it out.<\/p>\n<p>What I\u2019m saying is, perseverance. Which people don\u2019t have the perseverance to do what I\u2019m talking about doing. But if you want to make any money, you can be a\u2014look, I call them players and nonplayers. You can be what I call a nonplayer, which is kind of play on the sidelines and never get in the game. Or you get in the game. If you\u2019re going to get in the game, I\u2019m telling you right now, if you\u2019re listening to this podcast, it takes a lot of hard work and a lot of luck on top of it. And a lot of ethics. You don\u2019t need to lie to people.<\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019re trying to buy a house from somebody on a wholesale level and they go, well you\u2019re trying to steal my house. You go, yeah I am, but I\u2019ve got to pay salesmen, I\u2019ve got to pay holding costs, I\u2019ve got to pay insurance, I\u2019ve got to pay taxes, I\u2019ve got to fix it up. And I\u2019m going to make a reasonable profit. People understand that. But if you tell somebody, I\u2019m paying retail for it, they know damn well you\u2019re not doing it so why even pull that.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>I like that phrase. I need to make a reasonable profit. Nobody\u2019s going to argue with that. That\u2019s what every business does.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>They really do. And these books that people read, I actually went to a big CBS and left when I was on stage was with Rob Kiyasaki and some other keynote speakers from New York and some other places. And most of these guys were selling their books and tapes and everything and I was the last speaker up and most of the audience was here in Dallas and they knew me because I had a radio program on CBS for 16 years.<\/p>\n<p>So they really wanted to hear what I had to say, so when I got up there, I said look, I wrote this book and I\u2019m telling you, for $1750, it\u2019ll be the best book you\u2019ve ever read in your life. It says, How to Make a Million Dollars in Two Weeks\u2019 Time in Real Estate Business. And I could see all of them going, oh my God, he\u2019s going to try to sell us another book or tape. And I go, no. I said, here is how to read it. I opened up the book and it had one page in there and it said, \u201cGood f*cking luck\u201d. It ain\u2019t gonna happen.<\/p>\n<p>So I\u2019m not a big believer in buying those books and tapes because I think you have to get down and really dig in the dirt. It\u2019s kind of like going to war and going to boot camps. It\u2019s different when they\u2019re shooting live bullets at you. So I\u2019m just telling you. I can\u2019t know how much time it takes to work on deals. And don\u2019t be scared to make offers. I know I weren\u2019t ever scared to make an offer. I didn\u2019t care if I insulted somebody. I didn\u2019t like insulting them but generally speaking, if you\u2019re going to insult somebody\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>You know, I ask people this all the time. Newbies come up to me and they say, I can\u2019t find any deals. The first question I always ask them is how many offers did you make last week? And what\u2019s the answer, always? None. Because people are so afraid to go and make an offer.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I was going to talk about that. Find a realtor you can trust that knows the market that\u2019s not in it for the commission. I work on commission for the most part and I\u2019ve always told every loan officer that works for me and everybody else, I said, don\u2019t worry about commission. Worry about your customers. If you care about your customers, commission will take care of it. So I interview some real estate agents and find out who\u2019s got their act together, who knows what you\u2019re talking about.<\/p>\n<p>And in Texas\u2014I don\u2019t know about the rest of the states\u2014but you can make an offer on a house without even looking at it. So it weren\u2019t uncommon for me to put an offer on a house I never looked at, when I look through MLS. And I look for houses that need repairs because a house in tip top shape is going to bring in tip top dollar. And repairs didn\u2019t bother me so that\u2019s one thing\u2014investors, don\u2019t\u2014you want to look at a house that\u2019s been on the market for four or five months and hasn\u2019t moved. The price has gone down steadily on it and people are tired of showing it. They want to get their money out of it in a lot of cases.<\/p>\n<p>So make an offer. My rule of thumb was, if I couldn\u2019t buy it for 75% of market value\u2014in other words, say a house is $100,000. I might pay $75,000 for that house and I would deduct my closing costs on it which would be maybe 3% and I\u2019d also deduct the repairs. If I figure repairs were $12,000 on it, I\u2019d deduct $15,000. So I\u2019d take the $15,000 of repairs, the $25,000 off the top of it, and the $3,000 closing costs, I\u2019d make an offer of $62,000. If they took it, fine. If they didn\u2019t, they may counter with $64,000. And then you make up your mind. But don\u2019t get caught up in this trap of well, I\u2019m going to be getting into this bidding war with somebody. Make your mind up what you\u2019re going to pay for it and don\u2019t go over that.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>I was going to say, what do you think percentage wise, you get rejected over your years? Do you think you lose half, three quarters, 90%?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I\u2019d say 75-80%.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Okay, but I\u2019m jumping in here. I\u2019ve got like 19 things to say because you just keep talking. I\u2019m like, wait, wait, wait. I\u2019ve got a question about this, too.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I told you about that. Didn\u2019t I warn you?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>You did. Take a breath. Sit back. Okay. So, I want to say you had called them every Friday. I\u2019m looking\u2014my notes got all wapped up because I made a note some place else. You said, call them every Friday. You got your little book. We call that driving for dollars, when you drive around and you see houses for rent\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Dialing for dollars.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Dialing for dollars. Well, first you have to drive for them. Or walk for them. And then you come home and you look up where they are\u2014you called them every Friday. I am in the BiggerPockets forums all day every day and I see people all the time, \u201cOh, how often should I send a letter?\u201d I sent one once. Okay, and you got a zero percent response. That\u2019s because you\u2019re not being consistent. When somebody gets ready to sell, Evelyn got ready to sell to you, you called her right when she was ready to sell.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I called her at the moment when she needed to sell. Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yeah. But that\u2019s not going to happen if you do it every six months.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>The point of the matter is, it didn\u2019t take any time. I mean, it took me 15-20 seconds. And let me say something else. This is one of my pet peeves. I am so damn tired of people thinking that, iPhones\u2014I don\u2019t even have an iPhone nor do I want one. I don\u2019t text. I don\u2019t need to text. Do you see a computer on my desk? I don\u2019t have one. I don\u2019t use a computer. I have three assistants that send out texts for me occasionally, maybe once or twice a day. I do probably eight or ten e-mails a day. But I pick up my phone and call people on the phone. It doesn\u2019t cause cancer to call people on the phone.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>But it\u2019s scary, Mike. It\u2019s scary. I\u2019m a millennial. I couldn\u2019t handle it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I can\u2019t tell you what to do.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>What if they say no? What if they don\u2019t like my offer, Mike?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Well, I\u2019d say I\u2019ll find another person that likes the offer. You\u2019ll find them. When you talked about how many offers I made on houses, really, when you think about it, I\u2019ve offered maybe a hundred contracts a month. And you need to look at the house and what it takes\u2014my secretary, five minutes to type up a contract and send it out. It\u2019s got an option period in there where I can back out of it any time in 15 days. If I am able to get one. Because I wasn\u2019t going to go waste my time\u2014let me tell you. Time is of the essence to me. It always has been and it always will be. I\u2019m not going to waste my time driving out to somebody that I\u2019ve got a 5% chance of buying it.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019d rather shoot them an offer at my price and if they accept the offer, then I\u2019ll get off my butt and go out there and look at it and do a take off on it. If I don\u2019t like the house, I just back out of the contract and lose my option fee of $100 or $200. But I don\u2019t waste a lot of time doing it. It\u2019s a numbers game. Why are you going to take a shotgun when you\u2019re going bird hunting instead of a pistol because you\u2019ve got a lot more shots at it? So just fire at them. I\u2019m serious. Just fire at them. People are not going to be upset about it.<\/p>\n<p>And the realtor will turn those contracts out like crazy, and particularly if you\u2019re buying a few houses. He may cut you a deal and pay part of your closing costs or maybe cut the commission. If he\u2019s doing any volume with you. Even then, realtors are not overpaid, I can tell you that. Most of them aren\u2019t. They work hard and for them to make 3%, particularly depending on what product you get, they deserve it. Any break you can get to save you money, that\u2019s money in your pocket. That\u2019s the way I look at it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, I love that. I love that. I like the mentality that you come at this. I teach an online class every week to people and my message is almost always the exact same. It\u2019s like, your job as an investor is not to go out and convince every single person to sell you a house. Your job is to simply follow a process that is, you get leads, you go and figure out what number makes sense, like you talked about. And then you go and make an offer. And if they take it, great. If not, move onto the next one. Like, this is largely a numbers game.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>And in today\u2019s market, you should be able to, as an investor, make $10,000 on a house. That\u2019s after everything\u2019s said and done.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Slimmer on a rental.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Flip. Not rental. Purely flip market. If you can\u2019t make $8000-$10,000 a house, pass it. If there\u2019s too many things\u2014I can tell you that 90% of investors that start remodeling homes spend more money than they thought they were going to spend.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>I\u2019d go a little bit higher. I\u2019d say 100%.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>They always think they\u2019re going to get top of the market. They also think they\u2019re absolutely going to get it on the first day they put it on the market. It just doesn\u2019t happen. In the hot markets down in the Dallas metroplex market, it\u2019s not unusual for a house to have 15 contracts in one day\u2019s time. I\u2019m not kidding you. If the price is right. Those are in tip top shape so that\u2019s why I tell investors, find one with little repairs. Find one that needs a little lipstick on it to make it look pretty and get out there and feed it up and make the drive-up appeal pretty good and you could sell it.<\/p>\n<p>If you look at it this way, if you could make $8000-$10,000 a house net\u2014I\u2019m talking about after expenses, commissions, holding costs, taxes, insurance, the whole ball of wax, it\u2019s a pretty good living if you do that once a month. That\u2019s $96,000 a year. If you do it twice a month, that\u2019s $192,000 a year. That\u2019s like walker size to figure it out. But you\u2019re not going to find them sitting on your butt. I\u2019ve never gotten a letter in the mail I can think of, saying do you want to buy my house? Every house I\u2019ve ever bought, I went after them all.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>How about you, Brandon? I\u2019m the same as Mike. I\u2019ve never gotten a letter in the mail that said, hey Mindy, I think you want to buy my house.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yep, never have. Every deal I\u2019ve ever gotten\u2014that\u2019s like another thing we talk a lot about here at BP is like, back in 2008 and 2009, you could find good deals. Today, you can\u2019t find them. You have to make good deals. You have to go out there and hunt for good deals. They don\u2019t walk on your doorstop.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>These \u201cwholesalers\u201d\u2014they\u2019re buying houses and they do a lot of advertising and they have phone banks and all that sort of things, call all around. They\u2019ll send you a deal and say, look you can buy this house, the ARV, the retail value at $200,000. You can buy it from us for $150,000. And repairs are $50,000. You can sell it for $80,000 and buy the time you come out of it, you\u2019ll make $30,000 profit. When you really bore down to it, it\u2019s like the [inaudible][28:07] it\u2019s a lie.<\/p>\n<p>First of all, it\u2019s true. The evaluation they give you is very top of the market. I\u2019m talking about stuff in tip top shape. So it may be worth what they\u2019re saying\u2014if it\u2019s $280,000, it may be worth $260,000 truly. Also, they say repairs are $40,000-$50,000. Truly, they\u2019re like $65,000-$70,000. They get these investors to believe in all this BS and they buy these houses and they make $5,000 off them or can\u2019t sell them quick or whatever. And it\u2019s too much work and everything and they get bored with it.<\/p>\n<p>Run your numbers yourself. Don\u2019t believe what a realtor is telling you. Call another realtor and say, I want to know, if I put this into this house, what will it sell for? Within 30 days. Not 60 or five years on the market, depending on that one buyer that wants that particular house. Whatever repairs they\u2019re telling you about, look at those closely. Because I don\u2019t believe half of them. In fact, I\u2019ve seen a lot of them I used to buy houses from. I just quit buying from them because all their numbers are just a joke.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, I would say nine times out of ten, the wholesale deals that I see are just\u2014I laugh at them. They\u2019re just, you don\u2019t even know your market. So maybe, can you talk to those people right now that are listening that are wholesalers or they\u2019re trying to be wholesalers? How can they get better at getting those numbers correct?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Get your numbers right.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>How do they do that?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Be honest with it. If the incentive was saying people are going to make $35,000 on this house, tell them you\u2019re going to make $10,000. But you\u2019re right, Brandon. In Dallas, and I think it\u2019s around the country, affordable housing is in short supply everywhere. So there is not many flip houses around that are worth a damn. If it\u2019s hard to find, that\u2019s why you\u2019ve got to dig them out. They really are hard a sale to find. I know investors and I know people that make what people call predatory lending money. Where they loan investors 12-15%.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Hard money lenders, yeah.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>They can\u2019t find enough buyers for them right now. There\u2019s too many\u2014there\u2019s not enough product on the market and I\u2019m sure that\u2019s the way it is in Colorado. In Denver and surrounding areas, that market is on fire like it is in Dallas. So it\u2019s hard to find deals. But they\u2019re out there. You\u2019ve just got to find them. But look for the ones that honest to God need a lot of repairs. I\u2019d rather buy a house that\u2019s $50,000 with a little work than one that would need a paint job.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>The more work that a project needs, the fewer people are interested in. Also, the law of like\u2014we should make a law for this\u2014the law of smelly houses. The more smelly it is, the fewer people want to buy it. I love buying smelly houses because everyone is afraid of it. But usually, it\u2019s a paint job or replace the carpet.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>But you know, I used to think that whoelsalers, or whatever you want to call them, the people that are flipping these houses for $3000-$5000 or $10,000, you really don\u2019t know what they\u2019re making on them. They are making pretty good money doing what they\u2019re doing but I just don\u2019t believe a lot of the stuff they do, at least not in Dallas. I can\u2019t tell you about what\u2019s going on in Colorado, but here, they\u2019re giving you the high sale, the lowest a repair deal, and it\u2019s somewhere in between there\u2019s the truth.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, it\u2019s hard. You said it best a minute ago. You always have to do your own numbers. Don\u2019t trust your agent to do them. Don\u2019t trust the wholesaler to do it. Don\u2019t trust the turnkey company or your mom to do it. Don\u2019t trust Mindy to do it. Don\u2019t trust Mike or Brandon, right? Do your own math. I don\u2019t know. People want to take the easy way out. They just want somebody to give them a nice deal on a plate.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>That\u2019s that book I was telling you about. Good luck. That just isn\u2019t going to happen. Another thing I find in investors, they really don\u2019t know much about financing houses. I know that a lot of people in Dallas go to these predatory lenders like you\u2019re talking about. They charge 12, 13, 14%, four or five points, and they\u2019re easy to deal with. You don\u2019t have to go through a lot of applications. They\u2019re just going to loan the value of what you\u2019re putting down on it. That sort of thing, and make a loan based on that. When the reality of it is, if you\u2019re paying someone, let\u2019s say 12-13%, and four or five points, and that note\u2019s only good for six months and they renew it every six months for one point, which is what they typically do in Dallas. They\u2019re making as much money as you are. And so, a lot of these investors, if you\u2019ve got good credit and a viable income\u2014in other words, you can afford some taxes, and most investors that are buying and selling houses don\u2019t report anything in their income and their credit is always screwed up. I never have figured that out but it is just the way it is. But for the ones out there that have good credit, that have a job, why go to a hard money lender? Go to a bank. Go to a local bank. You can borrow money for 15-20% down and maybe a rate of 5.5% with one point\u2014why would you pay somebody like that because you\u2019re just damn lazy, I guess. I don\u2019t know why.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m serious. They\u2019re intimidated about going to a bank for whatever reason. I\u2019m not at all. I can tell you that I have a substantially large credit due to real estate loans. A lot. And I\u2019m constantly looking at new banks. I don\u2019t deal with a major bank. I don\u2019t deal with Bank of America or Wells Fargo, Chase, any of the big ones. Not because I don\u2019t like them. I think they\u2019re great banks. I have no problem with them. But you\u2019re just a name and number there. In a small local bank, they\u2019re generally wanting to invest more in the community. They\u2019re more personalized. So go to a bank\u2014and you\u2019d be surprised, one bank tells you no, that doesn\u2019t mean another bank\u2019s going to tell you no, because banks have what they call buckets.<\/p>\n<p>For example, if you go to a local bank in Denver, let\u2019s say. And they may have 20% of their total assets in spec homes, build jobs, another 20% in business loans, another 20% in car loans, another 20% on pre-approval loans. Well, the government doesn\u2019t want you to have your bucket filled with all a certain type of loan. They think it\u2019s too much risk. So Bank A may have their bucket full with real estate loans and they don\u2019t want to make them so they say, we\u2019re not doing that right now. Bank B may not have their bucket full so don\u2019t give up.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s just constant follow-up, communication, pick up the phone, go to see them personally. E-mailing is fine and dandy but I don\u2019t do it. Trust me, if I needed money today, and there is probably 25 new banks within two miles of them malls right now. You know what I would do if I couldn\u2019t find a bank to make me a loan? I\u2019d go to all 25 of those damn ones of them and I can guarantee you, I\u2019ll walk out with two or three of them saying I want to make you a loan. I promise you that would happen.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>We get that pattern on the podcast here all the time. We\u2019ve been doing 250 of these shows now, over 250 of them, and I\u2019ve probably heard that like dozens of times about if your bank turns you down, just go to the next one and then go to the next one and like, it works. It clearly works. People are like, no, the bank said no.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>It really does. And I\u2019m not bragging. I\u2019ve got pretty strong real estate and good income and good credit. And I don\u2019t go to a bank and try to borrow money if I think it\u2019s a bad deal. But they may think it\u2019s a bad deal for whatever reason. They may\u2014I mean, I\u2019ve had banks turn down a loan because they made a loan on the street 19 years ago and it went into bankruptcy, the house. I go, what the hell does that have to do with me today? I remember, I go. Okay. I\u2019m out of here. I\u2019m just saying, don\u2019t give up. It\u2019s that same thing I was talking about, perseverance and going after something you want. If you want it bad enough, I don\u2019t care if five banks tell me no. The first five banks I go into, I\u2019m not giving up.<\/p>\n<p>I will say this. If I wanted a job today, I\u2019d go down there and talk to them in person. You know the first thing I\u2019d say? I need your help. I want this job. I work my butt off. I\u2019m honest. I\u2019ll be your hardest worker. In fact, I will work here for free for a week if you\u2019ll hire me and give me a shot. How many people will think I\u2019m going to take off on that? Instead of coming in, oh, I sent a resume. And if you\u2019ve ever read a resume. Have you ever seen a resume say I\u2019m a turd? I\u2019m not going to work hard, I\u2019m just going to keel over. They all say the same thing\u2014I\u2019m the greatest thing. It\u2019s a joke.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>That\u2019s how Scott got his job here, Brandon.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>He wrote, \u201cI\u2019m a big turd\u201d right on his resume.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>No, no, no.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Give me an educated worker but give me a worker over education. I\u2019ll take a worker anytime over somebody who\u2019s got an education but doesn\u2019t want to work. Hands down.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>You\u2019ve probably hired a lot of people in your day, I\u2019m assuming, over the last you know, whatever, 50something years of investing. Do you have any tips on\u2014how do you find that good person? This is something I struggle with. How do I find\u2014everyone sounds good, right? Luck, yep.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Well, you know. Let\u2019s talk about Cody, one of my assistants who is doing real well. He came to work for me five years ago and one of the things I looked at when he came here, because he went to work for $10 an hour and trust me, he\u2019s making lots of money right now. He just bought a $400,000 home, about to get married, great life, money in the bank, good credit, good kid. But one thing Cody likes is to make money. And he doesn\u2019t mind working for it.<\/p>\n<p>I look for that trait, but the one trait I look at if I\u2019m looking at a college graduate\u2014did they work through college? Did they have a damn part-time job or did they just go to school and never work a day in their life? So I would prefer somebody that went to a less expensive college that actually had to work and knows what work is all about then hire somebody with a degree that\u2019s never had a clue what work\u2019s all about.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>I\u2019ve never heard that in my life but I love that. I love that tip.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>I really love that.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>A Wall Street guy told me one time\u2014a guy named [inaudible][36:58]. He and a guy named Jake were rich guys and he wanted me to go to work for his insurance company. I wouldn\u2019t do it. I said, I want to do my own deals. Plus, I didn\u2019t believe in insurance. And he said, what do you want to do? I said, I want to own my own business. For something like, 65 years, I\u2019ve run my own business or my own company. I couldn\u2019t work for anybody. They\u2019d fire me in a New York minute. They would. I\u2019d go, what do you mean we can\u2019t buy a computer? We need a computer. Well, we need to set it up in the right position. We\u2019re going to take bids on it and we\u2019ll get you a computer in three or four weeks. I\u2019d go, ya\u2019ll are nuts. Nuts.<\/p>\n<p>So I believe in moving and moving swiftly and taking action. I think you should hire smart. If an employee isn\u2019t working for you, get rid of him quick. You know it. Brandon, come on, ya\u2019ll know it. Mindy, you know it, too, if they\u2019re going to work out or not. You just know it. If they\u2019re not working out, just let them go and say look, we think you\u2019re better off somewhere else. You\u2019re just not a fit for us. Thank you for coming to work for us but we just need to split company. And let them go.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Brandon, after the show, we\u2019re going to have to have a talk.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>We\u2019re going to have a conversation, okay, good.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>But the Wall Street guy told me there\u2019s three things that make success. He would never hire a good loser. He would never hire somebody that didn\u2019t believe in God. He would never hire anybody that didn\u2019t have a big sex drive.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Oh, that came out of nowhere.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Okay, let\u2019s hear it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I\u2019m talking about a really rich guy. And he explained to me what every one of them means. He said, Mike, if you ever deal with a loser that doesn\u2019t mind losing, he\u2019s a loser. Don\u2019t hire him. Particularly in an executive position. He said, if you don\u2019t believe in God\u2014it doesn\u2019t have to be the God you believe in, it has to be some superior being of some sort. It could be the sun, the moon, it could be the earth, it could be any kind of God. But people have to find something to fall back on in times of peril. I mean, the first thing people say when they\u2019re about to have a cardiac arrest is thank God. They need to believe in something bigger than themselves. And the third thing is sex drive. He said, I\u2019m not talking about going to have sex with women. He said, just have that drive to achieve and get what you want. He said, I call it sex drive. And he\u2019s a Wall Street rich guy and he owned a corporation when he died, so\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>He can call it what he wants.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Yeah. I mean, he couldn\u2019t talk me into coming to work for his company because I didn\u2019t like what they were doing. Although it was a legitimate business. I don\u2019t mean it that way. I just didn\u2019t see myself fin insurance.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>What did you say that guy\u2019s name was?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Moody. Jay Moody Foundation is bigger than the Ford Foundation, the Ford Motor Company.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Moody.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>O-D-Y.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Crazy. Okay, let\u2019s kind of sum up where we\u2019re at so far. So can you give me like\u2014usually we say this at the beginning of the show but we skipped over it. What do you do in real estate? I mean, what have you done in the last 60 years? You\u2019ve done a lot but give me a broad overview of the last 60 years of your real estate.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I can\u2019t answer that question. I don\u2019t know what I do. Let me get some water and stuff and I\u2019ll tell you what I do in a minute. One last thing I\u2019m going to say about financing for investors\u2014go to a local bank rather than a hard money lender. You may have to go to a hard money lender until you get a track record. Don\u2019t let that stop you but go to a bank. Second of all, Fannie and Freddy will only finance ten homes for you at a time. And they count your homestead as one of them. They count a duplex as two units and a fourplex as four units. And so anyone investing, we sell off those two, it\u2019s not going to take more than three or four rental properties for one customer, so you\u2019re going to have to find two or three more until you\u2019re up to ten. When you get up to ten property, you can\u2019t buy anymore no matter what you want to pay down. In fact, DIA and FHA don\u2019t even make investor loans. It\u2019s only Fannie and Freddy and they want 20% down, generally 25% down would get you a better rate of interest. And if you have a better score, the rates are higher.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s what a lot of people do when they start out in this business. They buy a smaller home to live in, say $150,000 home, live in it six months, get it repaired or whatever they can do to it, rent it for enough cash flow to make the payments and cover any expenses. Then, they\u2019ll buy a little bigger homes and owner-occupied home. The reason you do that, quite frankly, is because the down payments are lower, anywhere from 3.5-5% down instead of 20% down, the rates are lower. And as long as your intent is to live in that house, that\u2019s what the law says. You\u2019re tenant-occupied. Moving into an occupied and then start moving up the ladder. That\u2019s the way a lot of investors build their portfolio for less money down.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>That was my first few houses. Same way.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>That\u2019s how I did it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>It\u2019s not illegal. It really isn\u2019t. It\u2019s a point to make. But once you get eight or ten homes, you\u2019ll find that people don\u2019t even want to talk to you because you\u2019ve got too many rental properties. So why not take those properties to a bank and bank them. I know, for example, I do a lot of investor loans here in Dallas where he had about 25 homes, 30 homes spread out with I don\u2019t know how many different investors, paid anywhere from 4.5-6% rate. He got $2 million dollars\u2019 worth of property here just in this bundle. Why don\u2019t I go borrow $2 million dollars on them, pay off the million dollars you owe them and give you a million dollars for a line of credit and you\u2019ve got one loan, not 20 loans or 25 loans and you can buy other houses down the road.<\/p>\n<p>So he listens to me and I got him a $2 million dollar line. Here\u2019s what it did for him. He found a house\u2014because you and I both know, Mindy you know and Brandon you know, that when you\u2019re buying a house, the quicker you can close it and if you can pay cash, it\u2019s a better deal you can get. So he had an open line of credit where he could go to Las Vegas and write a check if he wanted to because he had collateral behind the note. He was a pretty strong investor so we got him a $2 million dollar line or whatever that line was that he had available and if he wanted to buy a house, he could say, as soon as you get the title to me in two days\u2019 time, I\u2019ll write a check for it. It made a big difference as to what he could buy.<\/p>\n<p>So if you\u2019ve got that many houses and you want to continue buying them, take them to a bank and if they\u2019re cash flowing, it doesn\u2019t make any sense to bank them, finance all ten of them and put them on one note. You\u2019re not going to get as good a rate as a long-term 30-year fixed note but you\u2019ll get the rate and a lot of times, they\u2019ll give you excess money and they might loan you a 75-day to extend the praise value, particularly if they\u2019re cash flowing. So you may have $2 million dollars in real estate or a million dollars or $500,000 and maybe get another $100,000 that can go into another property.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>That\u2019s interesting. On that note, this gets a little bit into the weeds a little bit, but I learned something interesting. So I\u2019m working through a refinance right now, trying to get a conventional loan and they only let you have ten, so like ten residential, so I was working things, selling some properties up, but anyways. In that process, because I really wanted to get a conventional on these last couple of single-families that I was trying to refi. Anyways, so I learned that\u2014and again, I\u2019m not a lender person, so if you\u2019re listening to this, don\u2019t take this as like Gospel truth, but this is what I learned and what I read. It\u2019s that they don\u2019t count it as one of your ten if it is a loan to your LLC and it\u2019s a commercial loan to an LLC that owns the property versus your own. So what I did was I went to my lender and I turned that loan into a commercial loan to my LLC, basically.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>That was through a bank.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>It was actually through a private lender so originally, it was to my own name, but then\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Oh yeah, lenders. Quite frankly, they will probably drive the bank into an LLC for a lot of reasons. First of all, it\u2019s your homestead and in a lot of states, they\u2019re hard to foreclose. They\u2019d rather make a loan on a commercial property and secondly, the Dodd Frank Act doesn\u2019t say you have to make any income to qualify for an investment property. It\u2019s only, the ability to repay it has to be for your homestead or your second home. So no matter what you\u2019re doing on rental property, they don\u2019t have to verify your income.<\/p>\n<p>But that\u2019s the sort of thing\u2014Fannie and Freddy won\u2019t do LLCs anymore, or family trusts anymore. They may do partnerships. Now, what people do, if they want to buy a house like that, put it in an LLC or a family trust later on down the road, they buy it, finance it under Fannie or Freddy if the loans are out of ten properties, then they\u2019ll deed it to their LLC or their company, trust, or whatever three weeks later. Now, those are due on sale but I\u2019ve never seen one called out. I\u2019ve been doing this for a long time. As long as you\u2019re paying the mortgage, they don\u2019t care what name it\u2019s in.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Okay, I was going to ask about that because that is also another topic that comes up frequently in the forums is, I want to buy this and I can\u2019t get it financed through my own self or through my LLC, so I want to buy it as myself and then transfer it over. And there\u2019s a lot of discussion about, are they going to call the note due or not?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Well, let me ask you a question, Mindy.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Let\u2019s say the speed limit in your area is 35 miles per hour.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yes, I would never ever go above the speed limit, Mike.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I know that. But if you were going 35.1, what\u2019s the possibility of you getting a ticket and going to jail?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Probably zero percent. Well, if they pull me over.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Because all these notes\u2014well, no, they\u2019re not going to do that. All these notes\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>I don\u2019t know. Have you seen Mindy\u2019s car?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>The notes will say if you pass for a title, the note\u2019s due in full. However, I\u2019ve been doing this for 35 years and I\u2019ve never seen it happen. The lenders don\u2019t give a damn. It\u2019s a big misnomer. A lot of people say, they just want to foreclose that to make the money. That\u2019s BS. I\u2019ve never known a lender in my life to want to foreclose a piece of property who would rather get paid on it than to foreclose it.<\/p>\n<p>So the chances of them ever saying anything if you transferred to your LLC is almost nil. If they\u2019re going to say anything, if they do, just write and say look, it\u2019s in my family trust. I\u2019m on the note. I\u2019m personally liable on the note and I think it\u2019s risk-free. There is risk, it\u2019s like the same as thee example I gave you going 35.1 in a 35 mile per hour zone. You could get a ticket. You could go to jail. But the odds of that happening are 1 in\u2014I don\u2019t know what they are.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>You know, I\u2019ve only heard of one investor and it was on a larger multi-family where he deeded it something, or transferred it to something different. He got a letter from the bank and he just went and transferred it back and they were like, okay, no problem. But it was like a bigger transaction that I think they wanted him to like force them to refinance with them or something. Anyways, that was the only time I\u2019ve ever heard of it. But I transfer my properties and again, I\u2019m not giving legal or tax advice here, but I typically will buy in my personal name, yep, and I will then transfer into my LLC.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Technically, you\u2019re not supposed to do it. But technically, you\u2019re not supposed to go 35.1 either. So what the hell.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yep, I do it. And I also\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Look at it this way. I\u2019d take the risk.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Well, I take the risk but I also make sure to have equity. I always look at it this way. If ever the worst thing happened and the bank did freak out about it, I\u2019ve got equity in every property that I buy because I like to buy good deals. I buy fixer uppers just like you mentioned earlier. So that if ever the worst case scenario happened and the bank freaked out about it, at least I can fall back on, okay, I could sell it if I had to or refinance it or go to a private lender, go to a hard money lender or go to a credit line. I\u2019ve got options. Equity gives you options.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>See, and that\u2019s another thing about mortgage companies. Most mortgage companies don\u2019t have all the outlets and they\u2019re not hard to find. But unless you fit in a little box, they don\u2019t want to screw with it. If your credit score is not so and so, if the LTV is not so and so, and I\u2019m saying there\u2019s a seat for everybody but\u2026 There are insurance companies that carry those notes or all kinds of companies that carry those notes. Their rates may be a little higher. It may be 6.5% versus 4.5-5% but you know, it all depends on what you\u2019re trying to do. I would always tell your people out there listening to this podcast, you\u2019ll get the best rate with the least amount of cost you can. But if that doesn\u2019t work, go to plan B. It may not be the best rate but at least you\u2019re getting in a property that you wouldn\u2019t otherwise have had unless you go to alternate financing.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>That\u2019s why I think that you need to have a mortgage company, any mortgage company that has more than one outlet per product. Ask your loan officer, can you go to the bank if I can\u2019t get this done? Can you make a loan to an LLC if I can\u2019t get this done? Do you sell off paper to insurance companies? If not, they can call me on the phone and I\u2019ll tell the insurance companies to buy something nationwide at a reasonable rate.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yep. So do you, Mike, own a mortgage company? You do own a mortgage company, correct?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I do.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Okay. So you do mortgages. You also do real estate investing. At one point, didn\u2019t you say earlier you were buying like up to 200 houses a month or something crazy like that?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Yeah, but you couldn\u2019t replicate that today. Because back then, those, I bought, every cost was $8000. The average value was $16,000-$17,000. The average repairs were paint and carpet and HUD was big back on Venetian blinds back then and gutters. So you could actually repair a house like that, it weren\u2019t any big sheet rock damage or kitchen damage or that sort of thing and that was actually before built-ins, though. There weren\u2019t even appliances to be replaced. You could repair a house like that in actually two or three days. They were about 1200-1300 square feet and FHA would take anybody that would want to buy it, if they were all FHA foreclosures. So they had a deal where you could be in for $100 down. So when I first started buying those houses\u2014I\u2019ll tell you another story that\u2019s kind of interesting.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Sure.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I had been buying and selling maybe $5,000-$6,000 a month and HUD came out with a program called PPUB. Public Program Package Offering. All over the country. And they put anywhere from 10-15 houses in the same area together and they had a minimum bid you could bid on these properties. And let\u2019s say the minimum bid was $80,000 for ten properties. Then, you bid the minimum bid at a public auction and anything you bid over those values, you had to put up in cash. So in other words, if the package was $80,000 and you bid $85,000, you had to take a cashier\u2019s check the next day to HUD for $5,000, what you bid over. They\u2019d carry the notes up to $100,000 for six months with no interest. And you had to do repairs out of pocket. So they have you repair all these houses for about $2,000. HUD would let you make 5% commission. They would let you make 20% on repairs and that\u2019s about it. So they thought that you could make $2000-$3000 a home.<\/p>\n<p>I could make $4000 a home by selling them myself because I had a real estate company. I could also do repairs quicker and faster than they could, get them done, because I had a bunch of subcrews, maybe 15 crews working for me. That\u2019s all you needed. I bought carpet for 50,000 yards at a time, they had it at the warehouse. I\u2019d use the same carpet over and over and over again. You saw one of my houses. You saw them all. They\u2019re all the same.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Same.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>It\u2019s true. It was a master deal. And I had been to a lot of these auctions. When I was in high school, I bought a lot of furniture and antique stuff like that. So I knew about how to get caught up in auction and that BS and I would never get dragged into that thing.<\/p>\n<p>So for the first four or five months, I went down to the auction every Tuesday morning and they would be 300 people in this room bidding on maybe 150 homes, 200 homes. And the bidding went way too high and they couldn\u2019t make any money. I kept on thinking, man, these people are either stupid or dumb or what the hell, I don\u2019t know what\u2019s going on here. Because they\u2019d bid $20,000-$30,000 more which the problem is they bid $35,000, they want to do that work for a $5,000 profit. So I never bought any for the first four or five months.<\/p>\n<p>I went down there one day and the room was crowded. Standing room only. At least 300 people there and there were\u201414 houses came up in Louisville, Texas on the market. And I hadn\u2019t looked at them because it was totally out of my territory. And nobody bid on them. It was $86,000 for 14 houses. So I asked these two guys in the back, I said, do either one of you see them? Both of them said, yeah, we\u2019ve seen them. I go, what\u2019s the deal with this? They said, Mike, they\u2019re a year in a half, two year old homes. Some of them have already been completed. They\u2019ve been on the market for six to eight months and they can\u2019t sell. I go, I\u2019ll buy them and get rid of these damn things. So I bid $86,000, sight unseen.<\/p>\n<p>So after the auction, a guy named Jim Cox\u2014I know it\u2019s too late but it\u2019s kind of a funny story, a true story. After the auction is over, Jim Cox is the property distribution manager for the metroplex and he says, Mr. Sanchez wants to see you upstairs. I said, who the hell is Mr. Sanchez. He said, he\u2019s the deputy director of for HUD and he wants to talk to you about those houses you just bought.<\/p>\n<p>So I go upstairs and Mr. Sanchez, he\u2019s standing there and he\u2019s a very nice Hispanic guy, had his act together quite frankly. And he had two of these big deputies that looked like they were football players standing by him. And he said, son, did you look at these houses? I was about 22 years old and he was probably about 50 at the time. I said, no sir. He said, do you know what you bought? I said, no sir. He said, we\u2019re going to let you out of the bid because you don\u2019t know what you\u2019re doing. I said, well, tell me why I don\u2019t know what I\u2019m doing.<\/p>\n<p>And he said, you bought 14 houses. Seven of them have been on the market for six to eight months. We totally repaired them. We\u2019ve offered 10% commission and no down payment. We can\u2019t sell them because right around the corner, three blocks away, they\u2019re building brand new homes that are 245 S-homes and they have a dishwasher. Well, yours doesn\u2019t have a dishwasher. You\u2019re at three bedrooms, one bath. Those three bedrooms have got a bath and a half. Your four bedrooms have got one bath, they\u2019ve got two full baths and they\u2019re brand new and they can pay for half the years in subsidized interest so you can\u2019t sell them. We put them together for a builder buyback or manage to sell them if the sellers didn\u2019t come and buy them. So, we\u2019re going to let you out.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>That\u2019s awesome, they were going to let you out of it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I didn\u2019t want out.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>You wanted them anyway.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I bought them.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Really?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I did. So I drove up there that afternoon and fortunately, it was off a a major highway, 35 North so you pulled off the highway on Main Street and you drive by all these huge signs and flags and you into these 17-18 homes, they look like mansions. All of the furnitures on the sides, they\u2019ve got mirrors on the walls, doors taken off, $85,000 for the landscape on each house and they looked like, honest to God, these houses looked like million dollar homes. I mean, they were really well done by the builder. And I had known the two salesmen up there were twins from a Catholic high school, that I knew from high school. And they said, Mike, go back there and tell them you\u2019re giving the houses back. You can\u2019t sell them.<\/p>\n<p>So I said, and I was just cocky as hell, I didn\u2019t know. I was going to turn them into rental houses anyways so I didn\u2019t care one way or another. So I went and looked at them and they were on Blue Wood, Deer Wood, and Fair Wood, three blocks and there was 14 of them. So I bought them on a Tuesday. By Sunday, a week\u2014ten days, the other seven homes, I had painted, yards mowed, and I had 14 of them on the market. I put an ad in the paper that said, \u201cLet\u2019s make a deal\u201d. And it was the Dallas 20 News. I had a map up there. Instead of taking them off Main Street, which was the best way to get there, I put them off of an exit before called Fox. And I brought them through the back way, had a map on up there. I had an open house that was from 1:00 to 4:00. I got there about 12:00 o\u2019clock, there was a hundred cars up there parked. Honest to God. So I said, let me open these houses up. I had a little flyer for all of them and I opened up these houses, sold 13 of them in an hour on that Sunday afternoon. And half of them, I sold VA. So I go back to FHA. They want all these contracts turned into FHA. So they thought it was a scam. Jim Cox called me up and said, listen, you bought these houses ten days ago, we couldn\u2019t sell them and you sold 13 of them in a week? What\u2019s the deal here? I go, I sold them. He said, we\u2019re going to check all of this out. We don\u2019t believe this.<\/p>\n<p>So a couple of days later, Patsy called me on the phone and said, Mike, we checked all these out and they\u2019re all buyers. So Mr. Sanchez wants you to meet him. And I go, I don\u2019t want to talk to him. They said, look, he wants to know\u2014he just wants to meet with you. So I said, why don\u2019t you come down at 5:00 o\u2019clock and you always drank cognac in the afternoon after work. So he\u2019s sitting there having a cognac with his two deputies and he said, Mike, we want to know how you sold those because we just can\u2019t believe you did that. And I said, I\u2019m not going to tell you because I didn\u2019t know what he thought.<\/p>\n<p>I didn\u2019t know if he thought it was deceitful, to put a map up there. And not taking them in the main way, taking them to the back area. I didn\u2019t know what he thinks. So he just kept on hammering away, going look, it\u2019s cool. We just want to know how you did it. And I finally said, he had a blackboard in his office, so I\u2019m trying to do it on a blackboard and he said, my God, that\u2019s a genius. I\u2019ll get back with you in a couple of days\u2019 time. So instead of them thinking I was shady or something, I didn\u2019t know what they think. I was a kid. You know.<\/p>\n<p>So a couple of days later, he called me and said, I want you to come talk to me again. So he said, I called Washington Bank and we\u2019re going to make you a million dollar loan to buy homes from HUD. We\u2019re so impressed with you. No interest. Six months\u2019 time. You can buy all you want up to a million dollars, which at that time was probably 300 homes at $8,000 a piece. Figure it out. I don\u2019t know. And I sold these houses like hotcakes.<\/p>\n<p>But that was a different time in a different era. You couldn\u2019t do that right now and I don\u2019t know anybody that could do that now. But that\u2019s how I did that. But that\u2019s what I\u2019m talking about. Thinking instead of sitting on your butt going, I can\u2019t sell these homes. What am I going to do? I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, getting creative.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Think outside the box. That\u2019s really a common theme.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>And pick up the phone and call people. The eleventh commandment, I promise you. It\u2019s not thou should use an iPhone. That\u2019s not the eleventh commandment I\u2019ve ever read. You know, just persevere. Go after it. Do some work. Be honest with people. Don\u2019t jerk people around. Just do what you tell people you\u2019ll do.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>I love that. So Mike, did I read somewhere that you do storage units as well?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Yes. Right now, I\u2019m building about four or five homes in Dallas, anywhere from below $1.5 million to high $4 million dollars. But I\u2019m not a builder. I just put money up for them. I know the builders I\u2019m investing with. I\u2019m currently building three storage units, two of them just finished. I just got a contract. In fact, it\u2019s right here, the one we just got in April. It\u2019s $13.5 million in CubeSmart, all cash. Again, I don\u2019t know anything about it\u2014what I like about them anywhere they can build a mini warehouse in seven months\u2019 time.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re building the second biggest in the United States out on a major highway here in Dallas, right across from the new State Farm location. It\u2019s got 2800 units in it. It\u2019s 1100 feet long. 260,000 square feet. But I don\u2019t know about building them. I just know the guys I\u2019m investing with, I own 30-50% depending on what money I put up. So I do that. I take notes. I carry notes for people that can\u2019t get qualified. For example, if you called me on the phone and said, listen Mike, nobody will touch me. I\u2019ve got bad credit. I\u2019m bankrupt.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>That\u2019s what Brandon will say.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yep.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>So here\u2019s my deal to you, Brandon. I\u2019ll loan you money with 25-35% down. It\u2019s 11-13% and it\u2019s four points and you\u2019re going to have skin in the game. You\u2019re going put 25-35% equity into my deal.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Sounds like predatory lending to me.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>It is. It absolutely is. But it\u2019s legal as long as you disclose it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yep. And if I needed it, I would pay it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>People that maybe had a hiccup in life had to declare bankruptcy or had a foreclosure. It doesn\u2019t mean they\u2019re bad people. It means they had something bad happen to them. So, I get enough equity in my property and I\u2019m not in the business of foreclosing. I\u2019ve foreclosed one property in 25 years doing what I\u2019m doing. I currently carry about $18 million dollars and they pay like slot machines. But they have real equity in the property.<\/p>\n<p>As long as I disclose to them, and Brandon, you probably wouldn\u2019t do this but have somebody call me tomorrow and just say they\u2019re looking for a hard money lender in Texas. First thing I\u2019d tell you is you don\u2019t want this loan. It\u2019s a bad loan. I\u2019d say, it\u2019s like having a baby. It\u2019s an ugly baby but if you want it, I\u2019ll get you a baby. It\u2019s going to be ugly. Well, how do you clean up 24% at four points, it\u2019s a good deal. You\u2019ve got me\u2014how am I going to tell somebody that?<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>You\u2019re right.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Well, it\u2019s a great deal for the lender.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>It is a great deal for the lender.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>It is. But I take the risk on them. The other lenders won\u2019t take the risk. Because I can tell you the answers to lending. It\u2019s all in the value. I\u2019d rather loan a guy who bought a 7-11 for a living, 50% loan on the value of a piece of property than loan to a guy that works at American Airlines with 3% down that could lose his job tomorrow and you\u2019re under water on that damn property? Give me a break. I do pure equity lending and the ability to repay it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Well, you know, my very first loan I ever did was when I was 21 years old, or maybe 20. I wanted to buy a house to flip it and I had no money, no credit, making $8 an hour so I went and found a hard money lender and I paid ten points, so 10%, a fee of ten points and 10% interest. So a little lower interest, way higher fees. And it was crazy but I got the deal done. It was insane. I would never pay ten points today.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>You know, in Texas, when they changed the usury laws, when rates were 14-15% nationwide, I\u2019ve actually done those FHA loans when I had a mortgage of 17%. You know that discount points to make a loan in Texas on FHA were 17 points?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>The discount points?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>FHA was paying 17 points because they couldn\u2019t charge more than 10% in Texas until they changed the usury law.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Oh, wow.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Lenders were making it up in points to make the yield. Why would you loan money in Texas at 10% when you can loan the money in New Mexico for probably 15%? So they charged points to make up the yield spread so they were the same. So I\u2019ve seen all sorts of things. And I will say this, too, for everybody who thinks, God, I\u2019d rather pay 5%. BS. That\u2019s not true.<\/p>\n<p>Let me tell you something. When people were, listen this is a fact, when rates were 12-15%, it was probably going up 25-30% a year all over the country. Now rates are 4.5-5%, they\u2019re going up maybe 4-5% on the country. So would you rather have the property going up, would you rather pay twice the interest and have the property triple in value or have a low interest rate and have it go up a little bit? It\u2019s all relative is all I\u2019m saying.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>That makes sense. So that brings up an interesting point. You\u2019ve been in this game a long time. You\u2019ve seen a lot of boom and bust cycles that have been going up and down over the years. Where do you\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Oh, I\u2019ve even bought in them.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>So where do you feel we are right now? Where do you see yourself now and what do you expect for the future?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>You know, I am concerned about it. And trust me, this is not what I\u2019ve read in a book or anything, it\u2019s just my own observation. I personally think the government is spending way too much money. I think that the average American doesn\u2019t give a damn about it because it hadn\u2019t hit them in the butt yet. But it will. All you have to do is look at Greece and Italy and France, what\u2019s happening over there. It\u2019s a blueprint of what\u2019s going to happen here. You can\u2019t keep on spending money. More people are paying no taxes. 50% of the United States doesn\u2019t pay any tax now. And actually get a tax rebate on earned income, you know.<\/p>\n<p>I think the world is so insane right now, all over the world, there\u2019s riots everywhere. Food shortage. Repressive governments. Religious battles going on all over hell\u2019s half acre, I think the immigration around the world is, I think there\u2019s way too much of that stuff going on. I think the economy is pretty strong but I don\u2019t really trust it a whole lot. I don\u2019t know. You\u2019d have to\u2014I think the economy\u2019s going to hold after the next two years. I don\u2019t know after that. But it does scare me to see the amount of college debt that we have. I\u2019m scared and people don\u2019t want to pay it back. It scares me that Congress doesn\u2019t have a clue what the hell they\u2019re doing. They don\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>I agree.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>It\u2019s really hard to argue with that statement.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I mean, they couldn\u2019t run a damn thing. They can\u2019t run the government. And it\u2019s not just Democrats, it\u2019s Republicans, it\u2019s all of them. They don\u2019t give a damn about the country. All they care about is getting re-elected, in my opinion.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Preach. Yes. So true.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>There are some good ones up there. It\u2019s like student loans. If ya\u2019ll want to get on something else, I don\u2019t believe in student loans. I believe they should make student loans but not the way they make them. I think that if you\u2019re going to get a student loan, look, let\u2019s face it. These college students go to school 12-15 hours a week. It\u2019s not exactly a big load. If they want a student loan, here\u2019s the deal. You have to make your grades. In other words, if you flunk one semester, you\u2019re not getting a student loan next semester until you bring your grades up.<\/p>\n<p>Second of all, if you want a loan from the government, and you\u2019re taking 12 hours, you\u2019re going to have to do 12 hours\u2019 worth of work. Either get a job, a part-time job of 12 hours. If you can\u2019t find a job, you\u2019re going down to the school and you\u2019re going to the libraries, you\u2019re going to go to hospitals, you\u2019re going to go to grade schools or high schools and teach kids how to read. So if you take 12 hours, you\u2019re going to work 12 hours. And you can\u2019t find a job, we\u2019re going to put you to work.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>You know what\u2019s funny, when I went to college, the average was like 12-15 credits people would take for a semester. I took 25-28 every semester, worked a full-time job 40 hours a week, and donated plasma for like gas money.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I bet you it was worth it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>It was a good experience.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Same thing, I did 15 hours a semester and I worked the whole time. I went through Monday, Wednesday, and Friday from 8:00 in the morning until 12:00 and never spent a day at college. The Community of North Texas University and I had more money in my pocket. I worked to make money. I was a little hustler. I loved it. I loved the action but I don\u2019t think there\u2019s any free rides in the world and I think they\u2019re making it too easy for students to get those loans and they never intend to pay them back. I think they\u2019re burning students unfairly with debt. I think a lot of these students that\u2019s never worked a day in their life, they have no clue what they\u2019re getting. A lot of them are getting worthless degrees.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, I totally agree.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>My degree is in Fashion Design.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Is it really?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>You want to talk about the most worthless degree on the planet?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>But you could make a lot of money doing that.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Well.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>That sounded condescending but\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>No, I didn\u2019t take it that way. There\u2019s like nine famous fashion designers and the schools are filled with students and they\u2019re getting student loans. And they\u2019re racking up all this debt and there\u2019s no jobs in the fashion industry. Not to be a fashion designer.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>A lot of people tell the kids that. Do the kids even care? That\u2019s what I wonder about.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>I don\u2019t know. I think they get this in their head that they\u2019re going to be famous and they\u2019re going to be amazing.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Well, I think they\u2019re hearing from their parents. Our parents\u2019 generation or you know, your generation, Mike\u2014if you went to college, you were guaranteed a pretty good job because not many people went to college. When I was growing up, my dad\u2019s like, you have to go to college. You have no choice. So I went to college, right? But that\u2019s different today. I feel like, just because you go to college doesn\u2019t guarantee you a job. But kids are trained that way from their parents who believe that.<\/p>\n<p>So I think it\u2019s going to be the next generation that\u2019s going to\u2014like, I\u2019m not going to tell my daughter to go to college. Rosie, if she wants to go to college, great. Our real estate is going to pay for it. I\u2019ve already bought her a property that will pay for it but like, I hope she doesn\u2019t in a way. I\u2019m like, I hope she comes up with something else instead. An entrepreneur idea or something, you know?<\/p>\n<p>What\u2019s going on, everyone? This is Brandon Turner, your host of today\u2019s BiggerPockets podcast, here with my guest co-host, Scott Trench. How are you doing, Scott?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>In my particular scenario, I\u2019ve got a marketing degree but it is worthless with what I do. I could be doing just what\u2014I didn\u2019t waste time in college. I wouldn\u2019t say that. But if I had my choice to do it all over again, I\u2019d rather spend the time in production. And trust me, I\u2019m successful but I\u2019ve had my ups and downs because I\u2019ve been busting a lot of times in my life. I\u2019ve always paid the base so I can pay people back but it takes a lot of luck, a lot of time, and that sort of thing.<\/p>\n<p>It never bothered me. If I lost whatever money I accumulated and I had to start over again, that ability in myself to know I could always make it no matter what. I actually think you could open up and say look, Mike, come up to Colorado and open up a snow cone stand, I guarantee it within two weeks\u2019 time there will be a line at the damn snow cone stand. I don\u2019t know what I\u2019d do to make it but I\u2019d make it work. That\u2019s just the way I am.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>I agree. There\u2019s certain people that are going to be successful no matter what and I don\u2019t know. Mike, we could talk forever but we\u2019re at an hour so I\u2019m going to start transitioning us over to the next segment of our show, which we lovingly refer to as our <i>Fire Round.<\/i><\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Fire Round.<\/p>\n<p><i>It\u2019s time for the Fire Round.<\/i><\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Hey guys, I want to actually tell you a true story that actually happened to me. So a couple of weeks ago, I was out here in my office recording, actually, I believe a BiggerPockets podcast and all of a sudden my security alarm went off. My SimplySafe security alarm. You know why? Because I have a moisture sensor underneath my kitchen sink and while my wife was upstairs with Rosie and I was out here in my office, the water exploded from under my sink. I don\u2019t know, my dishwasher started leaking. Anyway, the alarm went off and I then got a phone call from SimplySafe saying hey, your water detection leak thing went off. And I was like, that\u2019s amazing.<\/p>\n<p>So actually, the alarm sent off. My wife ran downstairs, saw it, turned the water off and saved us potentially thousands of dollars in damage. So anyway, a lot of people know a SimplySafe house with home security, which we use every single day, but not many people know that it also helps with leak detection. If you put one of those leak protection devices underneath your sink. Very, very cool. So check it out at SimplySafePockets.com for a special discount for $200 off the special holiday system that we put together. Again, SimplySafePockets.com.<\/p>\n<p>The <i>Fire Round<\/i> are questions that our community have asked in the forums. People are asking for help and these are just kind of specific questions that we pull from our community. Let\u2019s see, how about this one? I\u2019m new to real estate investing and I\u2019m wanting to be an unseen owner, meaning I\u2019ll be working with a real estate team to find and purchase properties but I want to turn over the management to somebody else. Is it worth it or doing it? Do I have to manage my properties or can I have a company do it?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I would say it depends on the individual. I do think management companies have a big place in managing properties and they have more abilities. For example, they have the ability to run credit on people who want to buy things and have all the problems. But if I was starting out new, I don\u2019t think I\u2019d let management come in because it\u2019s too expensive. Most companies want 8-10% and it\u2019s too much to give up if you\u2019re starting out, if you\u2019re a newbie. If you\u2019re a seasoned pro and you can afford it and you\u2019ve got the cash flow, it\u2019s okay because a lot of these houses, I can tell you that. But I think if I was just starting out, I can manage my own properties for a couple of reasons.<\/p>\n<p>Not only because I couldn\u2019t afford the money and the cost of management but the other reason is I\u2019d want to find out what the hell is going on in the real world. It\u2019s like I said, want to go into boot camp where they\u2019re shooting blanks at you or going to war where they\u2019re shooting real bullets is a whole lot different. I\u2019d rather have the experience of managing two or three properties then maybe turning them over to management companies myself.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>So a couple of weeks ago, we had a podcast guest who said something like, do it once. Do everything at least once, Gabe DaSilva from Episode 258? We\u2019re on 259. Yes.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I think that\u2019s a good idea. At least have some experience and that way, you\u2019ll know if they\u2019re jabbing you or not jabbing you. I like management companies. I used to have a big one but from my perspective, I learned from the ground up. I agree with Mr. DaSilva.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Okay. Yeah, I do, too.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>All right, next one.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Okay. My question to you all is if there\u2019s a way for me to get started with little money to invest, can anyone who has done this give any insight for me? I have read several forums and books on the subject, however, I am a little apprehensive about getting started with little money invested. I just feel like I would be constantly tuned out. How can I combat this feeling?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>That is a tough question because generally speaking, you\u2019re going to have to put some money into making money. However, there are other avenues. And one of the things that Brandon and I were talking about earlier was hard money lending when he got started where he paid ten points? And he may have not liked it but it was a way to get started. So, a lot of these investment companies are making these hard money loans, charge you a higher rate and more points but they\u2019ll do a deal where it\u2019s based on the loan to value and based on the repairs you\u2019re doing. So you may be able to get one of those at 5-10%. Brandon, what\u2019s it typically cost to do it these days? I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>For?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Predatory lending.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, I mean I see\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>You can actually buy a house with no money in it, correct?<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>You probably could with the right lender, but most of them, I would see they want a little bit into the game, at least 10%.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>What, 5% or 10%?<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>There are lenders here in Dallas, I don\u2019t know about Colorado or where you are, Mindy, but they actually will loan you 100% if there\u2019s enough equity in the property they think the repairs can be handled. And that\u2019s the way to get it done. It\u2019s an expensive way to go but it\u2019s a way to get started. And if it were me, I\u2019d look to put more money down so you can have enough money to put it down so we can get started having a better rate of interest because I think people paying predatory lending give a third or half of their property is what I think.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, there\u2019s been several flips that I\u2019ve done, at the end of the flip, I look at it and go, I made less money than my lender did. And like, I\u2019m in the wrong business.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>That\u2019s my issue with it. Although if that were the only alternative, I would take it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yep. You know, I would say 50% of a great deal is still better than 100% of no deal, right? I\u2019d rather give somebody else\u2014that\u2019s why I look at partnerships and all of that stuff. And you learn from it, it\u2019s huge.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>And you learn. And Brandon, you learn from it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yep. Yeah, I don\u2019t regret the ten points I paid on those deals. I mean like, or in the first couple of deals I did because whatever I learned, I gained\u2014like the first few deals, I would say this, too, it sounds bad but like the first few deals you do don\u2019t really matter. You don\u2019t want to lose money on them and go bankrupt but like, generally speaking, nobody is getting rich off one or two deals. It\u2019s the lessons you learn on those early deals that get you to deal number four and five which gets you to deal 20 which gets you to deal 100 and that\u2019s how you build a lifetime of success. It\u2019s the learning.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>You know in all the homes I\u2019ve ever done in my lifetime, I don\u2019t think that I\u2019ve done homes up to flip homes, maybe up to a million dollars. I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve ever made more than $100,000 on any home and even the bigger homes, I was lucky to make $56,000 on it with a lot bigger risk. There\u2019s just not the homeruns people think there are, that these books say there are. I don\u2019t see them.<\/p>\n<p>My deals were quick in, quick out, maybe $4,000-$5,000 property, maybe a long time ago. So it\u2019d be the equivalent of maybe $10,000-$12,000 today or maybe $15,000 today. But my deals were in and out, quick and turn them. I\u2019d rather own a McDonald\u2019s hamburger place and turn out 5,000 hamburgers a day than own $12 just turning out 300 hamburgers a day. Money\u2019s where the volume is and that\u2019s kind of always what I believed in.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, that makes sense. My average flips are like $15,000, $20,000. I feel pretty good about getting $20,000. We interviewed a guy last week, he\u2019s doing a different\u2014he\u2019s basically building\u2014he\u2019s tearing off the tops and putting on new levels, doubling the square footage and now he\u2019s making $100,000. But that\u2019s a whole different business model. It\u2019s basically construction.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>That\u2019s stuff we didn\u2019t talk about\u2014if you\u2019ve got the money, that\u2019s a good place to start. Going to a neighborhood that\u2019s hot, finding a little home and adding 1,000 square foot to it and use maybe the same footprint and just take it up. I know people that are doing that and they\u2019re making more money than flip people. You\u2019re right. Certain areas in Dallas, they take these houses and maybe spend $150,000 on remodeling and make $100,000 on them.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, that\u2019s exactly what last week\u2019s episode was on, exactly that. Good money in it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Yeah, I hadn\u2019t thought about that but what you just said is very true.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>And I\u2019ve done that. I live in my flips. So I\u2019m not paying any taxes on it because I live there for two years. I\u2019m avoiding my capital\u2014what is it, deferring my capital gains?<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Avoiding it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Avoiding it? Tax avoidance. Ignoring it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>As long as you live there two years, you\u2019re going to make more than $250,000. You can make up to $500,000 on it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yep, and I\u2019ve never made $500,000 but we made $100,000 a couple of times.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Yeah, but see, you can do a 1031 exchange on it, too.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Not if you\u2019re living in it. I\u2019m doing the Section 121. To be a 1031, you have to have purchased it with the intention of making it an investment.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Well, look at you, Mindy.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Oh, but wait a second. Would a live-in flip be an investment?<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>It\u2019s also my primary residence. I don\u2019t know. Either way, I think the 121 is better than the 1031 because I\u2019m just completely not paying taxes at all.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>All you\u2019re doing with 1031 is deferring taxes. You\u2019re not avoiding them, you\u2019re just deferring them.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yeah, I\u2019d rather avoid them than defer them.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Good point.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>I\u2019m doing my first 1031 right now and it\u2019s fun. It\u2019s good. I got my properties.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Tell Mike how far in advance you got that property under contract, Brandon.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>You know how they give you 45 days? I got my property four hours before my deadline.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Nominating is 45 days.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, so I nominated four hours before and I got it under contract four hours before the deadline. So I made it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Did you overpay to make the deadline, though?<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>I did not overpay. I actually think I got a good deal.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Good for you.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>That\u2019s the danger of a 1031. It\u2019s very easy to overpay because you\u2019re scared and you\u2019re\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Yeah, because you\u2019ve got to get the dang money out of it, too. They have [inaudible][1:16:16] closers, nine days closing than 45 days to nominate.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, maybe 180 days total.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>I think it\u2019s 180 days total.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Cool.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I don\u2019t remember. I haven\u2019t done it for a long time. All right, what\u2019s your next question?<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>All right, number three. I\u2019m scared and I\u2019m in paralysis by analysis. I can\u2019t seem to pull the trigger. What can help me move forward?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Load the gun with real bullets.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Can you explain?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I mean, who the hell can answer a question like that? If you\u2019re scared, you don\u2019t need to be in this game. It doesn\u2019t take a lot of guts but it takes a little bravery at times and a little leap of faith. If you\u2019re really concerned that much, I\u2019d stay out of it. I really would.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>That\u2019s a really good point.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, if you\u2019re too afraid to do it, then don\u2019t do it. There\u2019s lot of ways to make money in the world.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>You know, if you\u2019re worried about everything, eliminate the things that worry you. I don\u2019t know\u2014look, you probably don\u2019t believe this but if this boss were on fire right now, we\u2019d finish this conversation, I\u2019d walk up out of here.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>I would believe that.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>It\u2019s true. I mean, what the hell.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>You don\u2019t strike me as a guy who\u2019s afraid very often, Mike. I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Look, I do a lot of different\u2014I do four or five major deals a month. I hit on most of them but the ones I lose on, I can lose a substantial amount of money. But it doesn\u2019t bother me because it\u2019s a major to be so\u2014if I play the game, you can\u2019t play with scared money. You really can\u2019t. It\u2019s like playing poker, anything you play with it, you can play with scared money, and you\u2019re scared to lose it, you shouldn\u2019t be playing the game.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Very good.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>So I\u2019ve never been scared to do anything in my life. I\u2019ve never gone into a deal but that I thought was going to be bad. I wouldn\u2019t have gone into it. But I\u2019d be in plenty of deals that went bad because I didn\u2019t do my homework. I was in bed with crooks or missed the market or just plain stupid. I don\u2019t know which of the four but it was probably in some of those categories.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>There you go. All right, Mindy. Last one of the <i>Fire Round<\/i>. You take it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Okay, Mike. Are there any rules of thumb you use to determine if you should buy a property?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>If it makes sense and you can get the money and get the financing, why wouldn\u2019t you buy it?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>How does it make sense?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Well, it has to make a profit, either cash flow, appreciation, or flipping that house and making a profit.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Is there a number\u2014like, you want to make this much cash flow or this much profit? Is there a minimum that you have in your head?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>On rental property, no. I\u2019ve bought some houses that were in better neighborhoods that actually lost money on rental but I made it up on appreciation. Because I\u2019d rather have a house, it goes up 10-12% in a year and so you pay $300,000 for it, and you go up $25,000-$30,000 a year so you hold it and lose say $5,000 cash flow but you still got $75,000-$80,000 cushion to sell it. That doesn\u2019t mean that\u2019s what you\u2019re going to make. Obviously, expenses and all that crap, you\u2019ve got to pay the realtors.<\/p>\n<p>And then from a cash flow point of view, again, if I were going purely for cash flow, I\u2019d buy less expensive homes because they rent for a lot more dollars than you can get for more expensive homes. But they\u2019re what I\u2019m talking about, you\u2019ve got to define what your goals are. If your goals are appreciation and retirement, it\u2019s one thing you\u2019re doing. If it\u2019s cash flow, that\u2019s another thing because you\u2019re buying a totally different type of property if it\u2019s for retirement. And get it paid off quick versus cash flow. We\u2019re looking for cash to live on or to reinvest and that sort of thing.<\/p>\n<p>That demands\u2014and that\u2019s why I say, starting out with a goal, if you\u2019re not investors then it\u2019s imperative you sit down and know what your goal is. For example, you can\u2019t go for appreciation or you can\u2019t go for rental income and you can\u2019t go for flips all at the same time. You need to narrow your field and know what you\u2019re going to specialize in and do it well. I\u2019m not saying you can\u2019t do all three of them, because I\u2019ve done all three of them, but it\u2019s not easy to do. So define what you\u2019re trying to do in my opinion.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>I like it. I like it. All right, moving on to the last segment of the show, which we lovingly refer to as our <i>Famous Four<\/i>. All right, these are the same four questions we ask every guest every week and we\u2019re going to throw them at you. Number one, Mike, what is your favorite real estate related book if you have one?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I don\u2019t have one.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Good effing luck.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Well, <i>Rich Dad, Poor Dad<\/i> was a pretty good book but I don\u2019t believe in a lot of stuff they say in those books because it\u2019s fine in theory but it just doesn\u2019t work in the practical buying and selling. You all know that.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>You\u2019ve got to get out there and do it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>You all know what I\u2019m talking about.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Cool, number two.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>What is your favorite business book?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I don\u2019t have a clue. I really don\u2019t. I don\u2019t read those kinds of books. I read a lot of books. I read them for enjoyment.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Well, how about this then? What have you been reading lately? What\u2019s something that you\u2019ve read\u2014it could be a book, a resource, a magazine. What have you read lately?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I like James Patterson. I like Robert Letham. I like novels like that. I\u2019m trying to think of an author. I read a lot of books. What I do is I go to the bookstore every two or three weeks and I buy bestsellers, novels, and they\u2019re generally on sale for $6.98. I buy 15 or 20 of them and I\u2019ll probably read maybe once a month, I read maybe five or six, seven books a month. Eight books. And I\u2019d read them. Almost any bestseller. I always buy bestsellers and they\u2019re always pretty good books. I\u2019d buy novels, fiction, spy, detective, that sort of thing.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Did you read John Grisham\u2019s new one, <i>The Rooster Bar?<\/i><\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I did. I just got finished with it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Oh yeah, it reminds me of the conversation earlier about student loans.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Yeah, about student loans. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Don\u2019t ruin it. I haven\u2019t read it yet.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I thought those guys were pretty cool but what I couldn\u2019t figure out in that book was why the hell they paid off their student loans.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Lalala.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>What\u2019s that?<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>She hasn\u2019t read it so she doesn\u2019t want to hear it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Oh, okay.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>I can take off my headphones. You guys talk.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>No, that\u2019s the kind of book I read in two days\u2019 time.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, I did, too, actually. It is fun. That was probably my favorite.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Have you ever read the Stuart Woods books?<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Which ones?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Stuart Woods.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>No.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>He writes about a treasure named [inaudible][1:22:35] they\u2019re really good books, they\u2019re fun, fast, and easy to read.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Cool, I\u2019ll check it out. Well, good deal. All right, next one. Mindy.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>What are your hobbies, Mike?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Playing cards, travelling. Spending time\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>What kind of cards?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Blackjack, poker. And then I like to play, I used to be a really good bridge player. I love playing bridge but there\u2019s not many people around that could play worth a damn that I know.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>I\u2019m learning.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Are you?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I like to travel.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>I\u2019m learning. It is a tough game. There\u2019s a lot of rules.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>It\u2019s the only game\u2014I could sit down and play bridge 24\/7 and not ever bet a dime on it. It\u2019s the only game I could play without money because it\u2019s brain against brain. It\u2019s cunning against cunning.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Well, Mike, you have to teach me someday. I\u2019m going to come down to your area. What are you in, Dallas? We\u2019re going to play some bridge.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Yeah, Dallas. Either one of ya\u2019ll. I love to entertain.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>And where do you travel to? What\u2019s your favorite place in the world to go?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>My favorite place is China.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Oh, never been.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I like it. It\u2019s action. Everybody\u2019s always hustling. When I was over there, they called me a street [inaudible][1:23:40] because I love screwing with those people. I tipped my hat. But I like the hustling. I like the atmosphere of it. I like the fact that they\u2019re all working. It\u2019s a very clean country. I mean, and you think New York\u2019s hotter\u2014Shanghai, there are so much new stuff over in China. It\u2019s a really cool place. I like Africa. I like Europe. I like all\u2014I\u2019ve never been to a place I wouldn\u2019t go back, let me put it that way.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I love travelling.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>All right, my last question of the day, Mike\u2014what do you believe sets apart the successful investors out there from all those who give up or they fail or they never get started, they never pull the trigger? What separates the successful ones?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I\u2019d say one word: perseverance. Not ever giving up. If you have a setback, just pick yourself up and charge again. Keep on charging because eventually you\u2019ll break the barrier. But if you have the bad experience starting out with, don\u2019t let that\u2014because a lot of fortune in the United States, I would bet more fortune have been made through real estate than any other thing. I don\u2019t know that to be a fact but I would bet that. So just don\u2019t give up. Just because you get busted once or twice, that doesn\u2019t mean you should give up. I\u2019d say perseverance and keep on charging.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Very cool, very cool. That\u2019s awesome.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>That\u2019s a great answer, Mike. Where can people find out more about you?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>They can listen to the podcast again. You\u2019re not on Twitter? Come on, Mike.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>No. Just go to RelianceMortgage.com in Texas.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>What was that?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>RelianceMortgage.com.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>RelianceMortgage.com.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>Right. And I only do loans in Texas. Somebody else mentioned me on a podcast and I was getting calls from all over the country. And I don\u2019t mind taking them. You call me, I\u2019ll give you advice in that area. But I can\u2019t make loans in any other state but Texas. I\u2019m primarily in Texas.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>And according to Cody, you also are Reliance Mortgage on Facebook and Reliance Mortgage on Twitter.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Oh, you are on Twitter.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>My kids do that for me.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Nice.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>My loyal kids.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>That\u2019s awesome. Well, Mike, thank you so much. This has been super\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I like ya\u2019ll\u2019s attitude. I will say this. You both know what you\u2019re talking about. Which is refreshing.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Well, Mindy does. I make it up.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Brandon\u2019s only 9.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>I don\u2019t care. Ya\u2019ll are very good at what you do. I appreciate it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Well, thank you, Mike. We\u2019ll see you definitely around soon.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mike: <\/b>All right. Merry Christmas, guys.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>You too. Merry Christmas, Mike. Byebye.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>All right, big thanks to Mike. That was awesome. Man, I\u2019m glad you pushed me to get Mike on the show, Mindy. You\u2019ve been telling me about him for a while. That was fun.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>I love Mike. And Tim Shiner sent him our way. I love Tim Shiner, too. Tim is just a really great guy. He also introduced us to Josh Randall from Episode 242?<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Tim is just a little networker, isn\u2019t he?<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Apparently Tim knows everybody.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Apparently. No, that was a good show. I love like just hearing the perspective from people who have not\u2014I\u2019m going to be honest. I\u2019ve only been investing now for ten years. That sounds like a long time in my head but in reality, what have I seen? Like one up and one down in the market cycle? This guy has probably seen like 20 of them, right? I love that perspective of like the big picture of what real estate looks like over a lifetime, not just an up and down.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>I like the basic information that he gives that you might not hear because you\u2019re trying to do all these new strategies. What did he say? Call them. Keep calling them. He called that woman, Evelyn, every single Friday. Perseverance. His answer to the question, the <i>Famous Four<\/i>? Perseverance. You know what? That\u2019s how you do it. You just keep pushing through.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>I love it. Very, very cool. And very neat strategy with the calling people. Just to give one little quick tip here at the end. Quick Tip! I say this a lot of times on these webinars that we do every week where I\u2019ll suggest, go to Craigslist. I mean like, he\u2019s not going to know what Craigslist is, I doubt.<\/p>\n<p>But if you go to Craigslist and go to the rental section and find some of these houses for rent, I mean, the landlords\u2014the mom and pop landlords that are listing their property for rent, they give you their phone number in the ad. Could life or leads get any easier? And put them in your little, what did he say, red notebook, yellow notebook, whatever he had? And then every Friday, why don\u2019t you call that landlord and just say, I wanted to know if you\u2019re interested in selling yet?<\/p>\n<p>Even if you didn\u2019t need to do it every week. What if you did it every month? What if you just built relationships? I mean, if you had a hundred people on your list that were landlords in your area, how many of them every year might want to sell their property? Maybe ten percent, maybe 20%? Like, people sell all the time. So if you are the guy that consistently month after month contact those people, you\u2019re going to be the guy they go to. Because you\u2019re going to build relationships. They\u2019re going to want to sell to you because you\u2019ve been persistent. So anyway, a little quick tip right there.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>And did you hear him say it doesn\u2019t cause cancer to pick up the phone and call them?<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>It could, actually. With cell phones, but you know.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Not on his cell phone. He\u2019s got a flip phone.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>He\u2019s got like the old like rotary on the walls, spinning the dial around. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>With the giant cord.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah. I remember, some of my earliest memories, my mom like taking the 90 foot cord through like every room in the house to get away from the kids yelling, yeah. Anyway. All right, let\u2019s get out of here, Mindy.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Okay. Brandon, thanks for letting me step into Josh\u2019s shoes. I appreciate it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah. Should be fun. It was fun and we should have Josh back next week.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yes, we will have Josh back next week.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>Good. All right, well, thank you guys so much for being a part of the BiggerPockets podcast this week and listening to us ramble for an hour and a half with a really, really smart, old investor. Don\u2019t tell him I said that.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Happy New Year, Brandon.<\/p>\n<p><b>Brandon: <\/b>All right, Happy New Year, Mindy. Happy New Year, everybody. Thanks so much and don\u2019t forget to rate and review us and listen to Mindy and Scott\u2019s new BiggerPockets Money podcast. See you next week.<\/p>\n<p><b>Mindy: <\/b>Okay, this is Mindy Jensen, signing off. Isn\u2019t that what Brandon says, or Josh? Wait, who are you?<\/p>\n<p>Y<i>ou\u2019re listening to BiggerPockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors, large and small. If you\u2019re here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you\u2019re in the right place. <\/i><\/p>\n<p><i>Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets.com, your home for real estate investing online.<\/i><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<h2>Watch the Podcast Here<\/h2>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Old-School Investing Wisdom from 60+ Years with Mike Anderson | BP Podcast 259\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/pvow1ifO3Qk?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h2>Help Us Out!<\/h2>\n<p>Help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review! It takes just 30 seconds and instructions can be found <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/forums\/25\/topics\/161423-do-you-listen-to-the-bp-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">here<\/a>. Thanks! We really appreciate it!<\/p>\n<h2>This Show Sponsored By<\/h2>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright wp-image-74647 size-gallery-block\" src=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/08\/freshlogo-214x140.png\" alt=\"freshlogo\" width=\"214\" height=\"140\" title=\"\">A huge thanks as well to our\u00a0sponsor <strong>FreshBooks<\/strong>.<br \/>\nFreshBooks customers spend less time on paperwork, freeing up <span class=\"tooltips\">2 days per month<\/span> to focus on the work they love. What would you do with that extra time?<\/p>\n<p>Learn more by visiting\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/www.freshbooks.com\/pages\/biggerpockets?ref=11568&amp;utm_source=bigger-pockets&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=2015\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">FreshBooks<\/a>.<\/p>\n<h2>Fire Round\u00a0Sponsor<\/h2>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-77567 alignright\" src=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/03\/simplisafe.png\" alt=\"simplisafe\" width=\"271\" height=\"58\" title=\"\">Check out <strong>SimpliSafe<\/strong> Security&#8217;s DIY home security systems; an affordable, wireless, cellular, and customizable system that doesn&#8217;t require a contract!<\/p>\n<p>Try it today with a discount:\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/simplisafepockets.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">simplisafepockets.com<\/a><\/p>\n<h2>In This Episode We Cover:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>The story of <strong>buying a house for $3,250<\/strong> (55 years ago)<\/li>\n<li>How to buy and sell <strong>200 houses a month<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>What he&#8217;s <strong>learned about people<\/strong> buying houses<\/li>\n<li>Why you should buy rentals in <strong>school districts<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>A discussion on <strong>cash flow vs. appreciation<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>The concept of &#8220;<strong>dialing for dollars<\/strong>&#8220;<\/li>\n<li>Why it&#8217;s all a <strong>number&#8217;s game<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>Things to note when <strong>buying from wholesalers<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>The usual <strong>problems<\/strong> with investors<\/li>\n<li>Where to <strong>get the money<\/strong> for deals<\/li>\n<li>Why <strong>perseverance is key<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>How to hire the <strong>right people<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>How to continue <strong>buying 10 or more houses<\/strong> (and get bank financing)<\/li>\n<li>Why he&#8217;s <strong>concerned<\/strong> about the future<\/li>\n<li><strong>And SO much more!<\/strong><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Links from the Show<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/forums\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Forums<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/moneyshow01\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Money Podcast<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"\/renewsblog\/bp-podcast-221buy-hold-real-estate-what-works-doesnt-tim-shiner\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Podcast 221: Buy and Hold Real Estate\u2014What Works and What Doesn\u2019t with Tim Shiner<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"\/renewsblog\/biggerpockets-podcast-242live-incredible-life-achieve-early-retirement-josh-randall\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Podcast 242: How to Live an Incredible Life Now &amp; Achieve Early Retirement with Josh Randall<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"\/renewsblog\/biggerpockets-podcast-258-six-figure-house-flipping-gabe-dasilva\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Podcast 258: Six-Figure House Flipping with Gabe DaSilva<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/craigslist.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">CraigsList<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Books Mentioned in this Show<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/richdadpoordad\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>Rich Dad Poor Dad<\/em><\/a> by Robert Kiyosaki<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Tweetable Topics:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>&#8220;The essential thing to make money is hard work.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22The%20essential%20thing%20to%20make%20money%20is%20hard%20work.%22%20BP%20Podcast%20259%20biggerpockets.com\/show259%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>\u201cDon\u2019t worry about commissions; worry about your customers.\u201d (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%E2%80%9CDon%E2%80%99t%20worry%20about%20commissions;%20worry%20about%20your%20customers.%E2%80%9D%20BP%20Podcast%20259%20biggerpockets.com\/show259%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;How are you going to buy real estate if you don&#8217;t know what your goal is?&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22How%20are%20you%20going%20to%20buy%20real%20estate%20if%20you%20don&#039;t%20know%20what%20your%20goal%20is?%22%20BP%20Podcast%20259%20biggerpockets.com\/show259%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;It doesn&#8217;t cause cancer to call people on the phone.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22It%20doesn&#039;t%20cause%20cancer%20to%20call%20people%20on%20the%20phone.%22%20BP%20Podcast%20259%20biggerpockets.com\/show259%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Connect with Mike<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/reliancemortgage.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Mike&#8217;s Company Website<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/reliancemortgage\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Mike&#8217;s Facebook Profile<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/MortgageLoansTX\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Mike&#8217;s Twitter Profile<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Mike Anderson has invested in real estate for over 60 years, doing everything from buying 200 houses\/month to owning a mortgage business to storage units.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":17340,"featured_media":117964,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[4565],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-95203","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-biggerpockets-podcast"],"acf":[],"comment_count":0,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/95203","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/17340"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=95203"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/95203\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/117964"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=95203"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=95203"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=95203"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}