{"id":95937,"date":"2018-01-22T00:02:34","date_gmt":"2018-01-22T07:02:34","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/renewsblog\/?p=95937"},"modified":"2023-04-26T04:48:21","modified_gmt":"2023-04-26T10:48:21","slug":"biggerpockets-money-podcast-04-debt-free-rosemarie-groner","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/biggerpockets-money-podcast-04-debt-free-rosemarie-groner","title":{"rendered":"Eliminating Over $30,000 in Debt Through Extreme Organization"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Rosemarie Groner was a state trooper\u2014a good, recession-proof position. But chronic disorganization had led to more than $30,000 in consumer debt, when she made the decision to quit her job to stay home with her first child.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In this episode of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">the BiggerPockets Money Podcast<\/a>, Rosemarie shares how she cut $23,000 out of her spending, paid off her debt in less than four years, and grew her income to the point that her husband could also quit his day job. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Rosemarie gives you actionable tips for establishing routines that will help get you organized so you can focus your energy on your budget\u2014not your day-to-day tasks.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/biggerpockets-money-podcast\/id1330225136\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Click here<\/a>\u00a0to listen on iTunes.<\/p>\n<h2>Listen to the Podcast Here<\/h2>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https:\/\/playlist.megaphone.fm?e=BIGPOC6952770084&#038;light=false\" width=\"100%\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h2>Read the Transcript Here<\/h2>\n<div style=\"overflow-y: scroll; max-height: 400px; background: #eee; padding: 20px; border: 1px solid #ddd;\">\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Welcome to BiggerPockets Money, Show Number 4.<\/p>\n<p><em>It\u2019s time for a new American dream, one that doesn\u2019t involve working in a cubicle for 40 years, barely scraping by. Whether you\u2019re looking to get your financial house in order, invest the money you already have, or discover new paths for wealth\u2019s creation, you\u2019re in the right place. This show is for anyone who has money or wants more, this is the BiggerPockets Money podcast.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>How\u2019s it going, everybody? I\u2019m Scott Trench here with my co-host, Miss Mindy Jensen. How are you doing, Mindy?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Scott, I am doing fantastic. I am having a great 2018 so far. We have released this podcast. I have also just released a book called <em>How to Sell Your Home<\/em>, which will detail the steps in selling a house.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>How come I didn\u2019t hear about this?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>You probably did. You work here at BiggerPockets.com.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Oh, that\u2019s right. This is the thing you\u2019ve been working on for the past year and that\u2019s fantastic. We interviewed you on the BiggerPockets podcast, actually.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Yes, we did. If you want to hear the story about the book and 16 tips for selling your home, you can go to BiggerPockets.com\/Show261 and that is the episode where I talk about the book and like I said, I give tips on how to sell your house. Selling a house, you think it\u2019s just, oh, I put a sign on the front yard and it\u2019ll sell and there\u2019s a lot more to it than that. Yeah, you can do it that way but you can make a lot more money if you plan ahead and do it right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Awesome.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>I am so excited to bring this episode to our listeners this week. Rosemarie Groner from TheBusyBudgeter.com is one of my favorite people on the planet. She has such an energy and she\u2019s always got this huge smile on her face. Plus, she knows so much about budgeting and getting yourself out of debt when you are in a seemingly unending hole of debt.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yeah, I loved how tight, how tough her situation was when she really got started getting serious about budgeting and financial planning and all that kind of stuff and how much progress she was able to make and how quickly she was able to make it. I mean, it\u2019s just incredible and it just shows that her power of organization and she\u2019s really kind of boiled that down and has some repeatable steps that you can take to get your life together.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Yes, her tips for making sure that the dishes are done every single night. Once you get into a habit with one thing, it makes it easier to make a habit out of something else. So, I love that tip. I have, since we recorded the show, I have actually started that tip myself and I make sure that I have no dishes in my sink at the end of the day. And it really, when you wake up in the morning and you walk into the kitchen and there\u2019s not a button giant pile of dishes waiting, looking at you like taunting you, it\u2019s freeing. She shares a couple of other tips on the show, too, that are just as freeing as that one is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yeah, I mean it\u2019s just about doing the few kind of trigger things that you need to do to make sure the rest of your life begins falling into place. And I think that her examples of those few things are spot on. And I find that when I have a big pile of dishes in my sink, or when I have a bunch of laundry that\u2019s not done or a big mess in the main room, that I\u2019m just less productive. I\u2019m not going to get on top of the important things if those little things are in place.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Right, right. That\u2019s so true. Okay, so I want to welcome Rosemarie Groner to the show. Rosemarie Groner is from TheBusyBudgeter.com and one of the most popular questions we get in the BiggerPockets forums is how do I start investing with no money and bad credit? The answer is, if you\u2019re established, you can totally do that. But if you\u2019re not established, you can\u2019t. You need to get rid of your no money and bad credit situation. Scott has written a book called <em>Set for Life<\/em> and Scott\u2019s book is a great place to start.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yeah, it\u2019s really written for the person that\u2019s starting with zero net worth or barely positive that doesn\u2019t have very much wealth outside of maybe home equity and retirement accounts. How do you go about accumulating investible assets? But that\u2019s not the problem a lot of people face. A lot of people face a different problem, which is how do I get back to zero? How do I get to the point where I can actually begin saving a hundred dollars a month, let alone a thousand dollars a month? That\u2019s the problem that so many people are struggling with and that\u2019s a problem that Rosemarie can really help us out with.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>So welcome to the show, Rosemarie.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>I am so excited to be here. I love you guys. This is like a dream come true.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>I\u2019m so happy to have you. I love your energy and I know today is going to be a super, super awesome, very informative show.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Yes, it is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Rosemarie, you\u2019re here to tell us about budgeting and how that can help people improve their lives. Could you tell us a little bit about your story and how you got started, why budgeting wasn\u2019t important to helping you kind of progress in your finances in the first place?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Oh, my gosh. Yes. So, I was a state trooper and if you don\u2019t have that in your area, it\u2019s like being a police officer but at the state level. And I was making about $52,000 a year and we were pregnant with our first child and I was like, oh, I\u2019m done. We worked crazy hours, like we had forced overtime. I never felt like I was home. My husband and I worked opposite schedules and we were like, how in the world are we going to raise a baby with this craziness?<\/p>\n<p>And then I decided I wanted to stay home. We looked at our numbers and we realized that we were over $30,000 in debt. We lived paycheck to paycheck. We had absolutely zero skills in life. Like, no cooking, cleaning, budgeting. We were hot mess adults. So, I realized that I wanted to come home and I realized that that just wasn\u2019t even remotely a possibility. And I can remember feeling like I was just stuck. Do you know what I\u2019m saying? Like you just can\u2019t do anything else. Like, I\u2019m going to work this job because I have to.<\/p>\n<p>And that was the moment when I just, we had that baby and I looked into his eyes and it was like, I don\u2019t even care. I will find a way. We reduced our spending by over $23,000 a year. I quit my job. I set a goal to quit my job by his first birthday and I made it. His first birthday was my last day at work. I replaced my income working from home, mostly through a home daycare but we had like a couple of smaller side hustles.<\/p>\n<p>And then the rest is history. Like, I found that when you actually figure out what you want and you have that goal, budgeting gets way easier. Like, I knew what I wanted and giving up small little things that I thought meant a lot to me when I was living paycheck to paycheck meant nothing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>So this is incredible. There\u2019s a lot to dive in here. Sorry, Mindy. Did you have something you wanted to mention real quick?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>I was going to say, wow, there\u2019s a thousand things to talk about. I want to know, how did you reduce your spending by $23,000 a year? Because that\u2019s a huge, huge number for just somebody who\u2019s struggling.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>It is, yeah. We actually have a full breakdown, I think it was when I started a budgeting blog. That was one of my first posts that I wrote and I have ever single dollar of that. It was actually over $23,000 and it\u2019s all listed out there. Part of it was we refinanced our mortgage to historical low interest rates. We did a\u2014and I only calculated the monthly savings on that, not the long-term, which is actually a lot more.<\/p>\n<p>We stopped buying books, which I am like a book lover. I read like crazy and when I saw how much money I was saving on books, I was absolutely sick. So I haven\u2019t actually purchased a book unless it\u2019s a business books for maybe six or seven years. I now only use library. It went for everything. Meal planning was a huge part of it. I think you guys just did a podcast with Erin Chase. Erin Chase was a huge part of the story by reducing our grocery budget. We followed kind of the grocery budget makeover and we saved $16,000 a year in grocery savings alone.<\/p>\n<p>We did, so it was basically like a lot of teeny tiny little things that added up to really big but I mean we systematically went through every single thing that we purchased and we found substitutions, even all the way down to like shampoo. We were using Pantene Shampoo at the time and then I found out that I love Suave Rosemary Mint Shampoo and our income has skyrocketed since then and I still use Suave Rosemary Mint Shampoo. It\u2019s like a dollar a bottle.<\/p>\n<p>So I mean, even things like that saved I think $118 a year by switching shampoos. And you know, most people are like, oh whatever, it doesn\u2019t matter. But all those little tiny things that don\u2019t matter combine to like a massive, massive change.<\/p>\n<p>So I don\u2019t know if you guys have the store Aldi near you, that was a huge part of our journey as well. We shopped almost exclusively at Aldi now. They have grocery that is about half the price of everybody else, about 50-60%. So we\u2019ve got 15 people at my house this week for a whole week. I\u2019m feeding everybody. Every meal is like tables and tables of food and like everything is from Aldi. It\u2019s like dirt cheap.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Wow, yeah. We don\u2019t have Aldi here but I have lived in a place that has Aldi so I miss it.<\/p>\n<p>Rosemarie. Amazing. If it weren\u2019t for Aldi, I would have to be an extreme couponer so I\u2019m really greatful for Aldi.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>So I have a question about this process. So cutting out $23,000 of one\u2019s budget is a pretty intensive process. How long did it take you to cut that and did this come in stages, was this all at once? How did that process work for you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Yep, it was in stages. I would say it took about six months to actually do everything. And keep in mind, I was doing this. I called budgeting my hobby at the point. When I wanted that, when I wanted to come home, this was what I did all the time. I didn\u2019t go out and hang out. I just did budgeting. But, to be fair, it ended up being really fun. At the end of it, once you get something\u2014once budgeting stops being like, oh I have to budget so I can do whatever, it becomes like, oh, I get to budget so I can have this awesome thing I\u2019m fighting for, it actually becomes really fun.<\/p>\n<p>And I did do it in stages. We talked a little bit about how I was really disorganized, so we were kind of like hot mess adults. I realized I kept trying and trying and trying to save money, right? And we would be like, okay, we\u2019re going to cook everything from home this week. And then I would go out and spend $300 in groceries and I\u2019m like, I\u2019m going to make all of this expensive food and it\u2019s going to be great. And then of course, what would happen was we got busy. My dishes are like all in the sink. My kitchen\u2019s a mess. And we would end up ordering pizza every single night. So I quickly realized that before I even try to save money, I have to set up just the routines that matter.<\/p>\n<p>So we set up a dishes routine, a laundry routine, and a schedule routine that we actually still use to this today. And it\u2019s been like seven years now. So I don\u2019t care what my house looks like. I don\u2019t care if the sheets get changed, if the vacuuming gets done, the house can be like severely dirty and gross but if those three routines are running, then I can do all of the things that I need to do to stay on budget and my house actually runs really well. It may not look great but it runs really well.<\/p>\n<p>And what we found was once you got those three routines, just those three, under control, budgeting became really easy. Meal prepping and cooking at home became super easy. It was like okay, I got a kitchen. My fridge is clean. I\u2019ve got stuff that I can do and the schedule, of course, was an important part of that because we started something called a stockroom which saved a ton of money. Oh, my gosh. We still have it.<\/p>\n<p>So every time you run out of something, say it\u2019s like shampoo or deodorant, right? You run to the store to pick up some more, right? And there\u2019s a short list of things that if you ran out of you would go out to immediately purchase right now. And every time you go out to purchase that, of course you run into like one or two or ten or twenty other things you needed and you end up buying other stuff. Well, what we realize is that if we took like a shelf in one closet and we just put all of the things, at least one extra of the things that we would go out to a store and run and buy if we ran out of, that we saved a ton of money because one, our schedule opened up. There were no more extra hours that we would spend going to purchase something. Do you know what I mean? So that\u2019s time saved.<\/p>\n<p>But it also meant that we were buying these things at lower prices and it also meant that we were saving on impulse purchases which is one of our biggest problems, is that when we go into a store, we\u2019re not just getting one thing. We\u2019re buying like a hundred things. So that turned into, well now we figured that out, we figured how much money we saved from that so now we go further and now we say, we just automate all of our errands.<\/p>\n<p>So we joke around all the time now that I work from home, we say I never leave the house, which is kind of true. Because we don\u2019t go grocery shopping. We don\u2019t go to Target. We don\u2019t go to Wal-Mart. All of those things\u2014we do go to Aldi. But all of those things are delivered to our house for us and we get them for the same price you would get if you walked into Target. There\u2019s tons of places online that price match. Both Wal-Mart and Target, you can have them shipped to your house for the exact same price that you can go pick it up but the difference is, I don\u2019t also pick up $400\u2019s worth of Joanna Gaines\u2019 stuff. I\u2019m only getting the stuff that\u2019s on my list and I\u2019m doing it ahead of time. I\u2019m being conscious of where I fit it into my budget and things like that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Okay, so again, 47 things I want to talk about now. Okay, so at the beginning of this, you said that you got into a habit. You established a routine for your household and that really just speaks to me as a\u2014I used to be a stay-at-home mom and it\u2019s so easy to just wake up and all of a sudden, the day\u2019s gone and you\u2019re like, oh I didn\u2019t do anything.<\/p>\n<p>So establishing the dishes routine is really, really important in my mind. Establishing the laundry routine so you\u2019re not sitting there and folding 47 pairs of clothes, 47 loads of laundry on a Saturday when the only time you have to spend with your significant other or whatever. That\u2019s really, really important. I really like that tip. And you have established a whole course for this, right? A whole routine. So let\u2019s talk about that a little bit later.<\/p>\n<p>The stockroom is also something I want to talk about. I suffer from almost hoarderism and I did the extreme couponing for a while. It\u2019s really not a good fit for myself. How do you do a stockroom without being one of those crazy extreme couponers who\u2019s got 47 gallons of mayonnaise that they\u2019re never going to eat ever?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Yeah, so we definitely don\u2019t do that. The secret to the stockroom to start is only to get the things that you would run out and purchase if you ran out of. So like, let\u2019s say shampoo, right? Let\u2019s say you have zero shampoo in your house. You\u2019re going to be like, hey hubby, can you stop by and pick up shampoo on the way home? Or you\u2019re going to go out and get it yourself, right? There\u2019s not too many days you\u2019re going to go without shampoo in your house. Paper towels is one for a lot of people. Deodorant, right? You\u2019re probably going to run out and grab deodorant if you run out.<\/p>\n<p>So if you\u2019re only getting those and if you\u2019re only getting one extra. So we\u2019re not talking about a major like, it used to be we lived in a 900 square foot townhouse when we started this. We had like one little tiny shelf. It\u2019s just like an extra\u2014we had extra toothbrushes, extra toothpaste, extra deodorant, extra shampoo, extra laundry detergent, extra dish soap, extra dishwasher detergent. Things like that. So anything that you would run right out and pick up. My husband was like obsessed with hair glue so we had like hair glue in there but anything that you would run out and pick up\u2014I know, right? Hair glue.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>What\u2019s hair glue?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>I guess it\u2019s like\u2014I know. Does Scott know? I feel you like you\u2019re a hair guy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>I don\u2019t know what this is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Really?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Scott\u2019s morning routine, I\u2019m guessing, is get out of bed and go.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yeah, pretty much. I go to bed, I shower, and I go to work.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Well, you can Google hair glue.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Is it like a hair product?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>It\u2019s definitely a hair product. It makes his things in the front spikey. I feel like I should know this. I\u2019m a girl, right? I should know these things.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>I thought it was like, he looks like he\u2019s got a full head of hair. It\u2019s a really great toupee. I thought it was like hair glue.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>No, not that kind.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Okay, so the stockroom is just one extra. And when you take it off, how do you know to get more? Do you just automatically put it on your list or\u2014how does that work? How do you replenish your stockroom?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>So you have different things available. We actually have a free Excel file someplace. We used to, when we started, and again, don\u2019t start with an Excel file. If you make it too complicated, you\u2019re not going to do it. We started with just a Post-it note slapped on the back of the door and it said something like, shampoo, one or two, and then when you took one out, you like crossed it out.<\/p>\n<p>And there\u2019s a big joke in our house because my husband and I, I always use the bath and he always uses the shower and he will come over to my bath and steal my shampoo versus walking the extra two feet to the stockroom and grabbing shampoo from there. Anyway, it\u2019s a side note. So you have to be prepared for that. You can just use like a little Post-it note to track what you have but the idea is that you should, if you\u2019re going to the store, I don\u2019t suggest you go to the store. If you\u2019re going to have something delivered to the house like Wal-Mart or Target or things like that, you can be like, oh okay, I have one shampoo, we\u2019ll grab one more. Or I\u2019ve just used my last shampoo, I\u2019m going to grab one more. Things like that.<\/p>\n<p>You can go one step further and now we do auto-scheduling, which means that we\u2019ve done this for so long that I know how long it takes for us to use up a shampoo. I know how long it takes for us to use up deodorant. So I just set them to be automatically sent to the house every so often and if I find that we\u2019re getting too many, then I\u2019ll bump it out a little bit and adjust it so we can catch back up.<\/p>\n<p>But for the most part, where this used to be like a monthly trip to Target or Wal-Mart that I would load up all of this stuff that we would need. Or worse, I\u2019d buy it at the grocery store where it\u2019s more expensive while I bought groceries. Now, it\u2019s something I don\u2019t think about. I don\u2019t spend time doing it. I don\u2019t go into Target and buy all of the Joanna Gaines stuff there because I\u2019m there anyway and it\u2019s just shipped to the door. Obviously, you get lots of boxes and you can use the boxes for cool stuff but that\u2019s a whole other thing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>So what I\u2019m getting here is this is just like incredible optimization and tracking and management of your life, the things that you just use, the necessities of life. And you went through this process in stages where you were able to cut your spending by $23,000 and it seems to free up a lot of time, right? My question for you is, let\u2019s say that I\u2019m someone who\u2019s starting to do this and maybe haven\u2019t done any of this. I\u2019m where you were when you started. How was my happiness going to be affected while I\u2019m going through this journey? Is this going to ruin my life? Isn\u2019t this going to make things worse? How does that work?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Oh, my gosh. No. And I know what you\u2019re saying because I can remember like in the very beginning. So the thing about budgeting is that it\u2019s all about perspective. And I think when most people hear about budgeting, they\u2019re stressed out about debt or they\u2019re like, or the other way, maybe they don\u2019t have debt and they have money but they don\u2019t necessarily want to like live below their means because they\u2019re like, I\u2019ve got all this money. I\u2019m not stupid. Like I want to spend it.<\/p>\n<p>But the thing is that budgeting allows you to get anything you want. Anything you want. We purchased like a gorgeous house. My husband\u2019s got like a fixer-upper Corvette he likes to drive around. But like the thing is we got those things because we put our heads together and we were like, I want this. Let\u2019s go out and get it. So budgeting, I think, has a bad\u2014it just seems like something really negative and it\u2019s the total opposite. It just opens up this whole world of like, on almost any salary, you can have anything you want. You just have to be smart enough to go after it and get it, you know what I mean?<\/p>\n<p>Do the work to get it. And it doesn\u2019t have to be, so some people are really all about sacrifice. We are not. Like if you look at our story, we were over $30,000 in debt and we were both state troopers and the correct answer in that situation is to stay at work. Hoard all that money and then go pay off your debt. And we didn\u2019t do that. It was like, I want to pay off my debt but babies don\u2019t keep and I can\u2019t spend his younger years with him when he\u2019s five. Do you know what I mean? I can\u2019t go back and redo this time.<\/p>\n<p>So I was like, I\u2019m going to quit my job no matter what and I\u2019m going to figure out a way to make it happen and that was what I did. But the thing about budgeting is that it\u2019s empowering. Whatever you want, you can do it. You just have to be intentional when you do it, if that makes sense.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>That makes such perfect sense and that\u2019s\u2014budgeting, you\u2019re right, it has this negative connotation. It\u2019s restrictive. But if you don\u2019t know where your money\u2019s going, you can\u2019t direct it where you want it to go and if there\u2019s something that doesn\u2019t matter to you then don\u2019t spend money on it. I don\u2019t care what my clothes look like. I want them to be fairly current and I want them to be clean. And that\u2019s kind of it. I\u2019d like them to fit but that\u2019s a different story. So I don\u2019t go and spend on these brand name clothes because it doesn\u2019t matter to me.<\/p>\n<p>But there are things that I like so I spend money on those things because I don\u2019t want to say it\u2019s important, because it\u2019s probably not as important as like kids and stuff, but.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Yeah. And also like, you also have to think about the fact that this is a very short amount of time. So this was about six months of my life that I was really, really into budgeting. And once I had established those habits, I was like okay, now we\u2019re just talking about an evening a week, do you know what I\u2019m saying?<\/p>\n<p>And at this point, we\u2019re still spending an evening a week but it\u2019s like an hour and it\u2019s almost like a date night. It\u2019s kind of fun. We talk about our goals. We talk about where we\u2019re going after and then we start crunching the numbers. But it\u2019s really like a cool thing that we do now and not like, budget night. It\u2019s kind of fun.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Okay, so I want to point out that you have a conversation with your husband every week about money and I\u2019ve been married for almost 16 years and I have one of the best marriages on record because we talk and we talk all the time and we don\u2019t fight and we don\u2019t fight about money. And that is, doing the budget to have a conversation with your husband every week is totally worth it. Because you know how kids suck up every bit of your time and then all of a sudden, it\u2019s been a month since you\u2019ve said hi to your husband.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>And this was interesting for us because when we got married, John and I had incredibly different philosophies about money, right? When we got married, I married into a lot of debt and we had a house that was $100,000 under water and I was not great with money but I was also, my biggest issue is being chronically disorganized but I didn\u2019t have a ton of debt coming into it. And when we got married and looked at what we had, I was totally freaked out. I was like, we have to fix this right now and John\u2019s like, let\u2019s buy 3D TVs and I\u2019m like, what? What is going on?<\/p>\n<p>And he was very like\u2014we fought about money. I can remember our first year crying on the couch being like what have I done? This is never going to work. And we have not had a money fight in I think five years, maybe six. So I think just both of us having goals that we\u2019re going for and having him be able to flip his perspective from this is restricting to like, this gets me what I want. It made a big difference.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Yeah, that is\u2014I\u2019ve got to write that down.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>So I have a question here. So you get in alignment with your husband. You\u2019ve begun this system of budgeting and tracking. You\u2019ve cut your expenses a lot. You\u2019ve quit your job. What happens now to income? I\u2019ve found in my life, for example, that when I got serious about tracking my finances and spending and making sure that I\u2019m accumulating as much money as possible, given my happiness constraints, that I was doing two things.<\/p>\n<p>I was accumulating money and I was, which I could then invest, and I was also more comfortable taking risks, you know, on new ventures and that kind of thing. Did you find that to be the case for yourself?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Yes, and I think part of it is like, we reduced our spending so that we mitigate some of the risk. Because I mean it was a risk to quit our jobs. Woo, we can live on a budget for six months. Let\u2019s quit our jobs. So there was a little bit of a risk there but we reduced our spending so that worst case scenario, we can handle it, and then of course, what we found was that it\u2019s not as hard as you think to increase your income. Like, it was pretty easy for me to make up my income from home in the home daycare.<\/p>\n<p>And then at the point where we were looking at the decisions like okay, so I don\u2019t think I want to be able to do this for 25 years. This isn\u2019t going to be fun anymore when my kids are in school, do you know what I mean? Like, okay, bye kids and then oh, we still have four kids at home. So what we did was I started a blog and then we turned that into an additional income stream and it ended up taking over everything else.<\/p>\n<p>So I think that it\u2019s actually a lot easier than most people think to increase their income and to kind of\u2014that would give you money. That would give you money to invest. That would give you more kind of wealth and then again, the budget gets a whole lot easier but we still budget. Again, it\u2019s just you\u2019re budgeting for more fun stuff. Bigger fun stuff.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yeah, the point that I want to throw out there is that in my experience, I\u2019ve met a lot of folks that have gone through the process somewhat like yours. Yours is by far the most intense and coolest that I\u2019ve heard, with incredible results in a short period of time. But folks that go through any type of this process often find opportunities to present themselves on the income front even though that\u2019s not their focus. Their focus is on saving money. But because they\u2019re saving money, they become more comfortable with their position. They build up a bigger financial mode and then all of a sudden, that opportunity to go and do something that they love or something that may pay off financially presents itself.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Yeah, absolutely, because you get out of, we call it the paycheck to paycheck cycle. When you\u2019re in that paycheck to paycheck cycle, you can\u2019t even build a stockroom. Do you know what I\u2019m saying? Something that can save you hours and hours of time. But if you don\u2019t have that hundred dollars or $150, you can\u2019t do that.<\/p>\n<p>We talk about this a lot of times because my audience is typically people that have zero money. Like, these aren\u2019t people that have any wealth at all. They\u2019re just trying to like get by but if you bring that on a larger scale, like we have a ton of savings. We\u2019re debt-free now. Our life experiences and the risk that we can take and the things that we can go after, we can build new businesses, we can try new things and all of those are within our reach because we kind of like did the work before. Do you know what I\u2019m saying?<\/p>\n<p>But I think there\u2019s this whole world that most people don\u2019t know about. They just think they have to go to a job. They have to work at a job and most people don\u2019t even realize that they don\u2019t have to live paycheck to paycheck. There are people out there that aren\u2019t doing that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>And this is the foundation for entrepreneurship, I think, if you want to go down it. Exactly what you\u2019re doing. What you\u2019ve done, I think, is that foundation. All those skills that you\u2019ve built will, if you ever\u2014will help you in your business that you\u2019re building currently and any of the ones that you go into in the future, I think.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Yeah, and it\u2019s kind of funny because when I started this whole thing, when I started the home daycare, I never thought of myself as being an entrepreneur. I never even probably thought about that world. It was just, I just needed to escape. Like, this is my escape route.<\/p>\n<p>And then when I built the blog and I kind of got into that whole world that I realized how many people were making a killing at home, it helped me kind of like catapult my business because now I\u2019m in this whole entrepreneur world and there\u2019s so many things that you\u2019re learning but essentially it\u2019s all the same. It\u2019s maximizing your ROI. It\u2019s your return on your investment.<\/p>\n<p>If you look at my budgeting journey, what I did was I figured out the chronically disorganized things that were keeping me from saving money and I let everything else go and I only focused on the three things that gave me the highest ROI. On the budgeting journey, I only focused on the things that were going to give me the best results for what I was doing and then you flip that over. When I started the blog, I did essentially the same thing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>I want to jump back to a couple of comments ago. You said something\u2014we did the work before. All these things opened up because we did the work before. You make this sound really easy. Oh, I just looked at my budget and I cut costs and it\u2019s not hard, but it\u2019s not easy. It\u2019s work. And you have to do the work if you want to see the results and nobody is going to just do it for you and there isn\u2019t a button that you can push to make everything just go away. You have to do the work and you have to be committed to it. And I think that that\u2019s what a lot of people will jump in and be like, oh, I\u2019m going to do this. Ugh, nevermind, it\u2019s work.<\/p>\n<p>Well yeah, it\u2019s work. It was work to get into the debt and it\u2019s going to be work to get out of the debt. How free do you feel not having this $30,000\u2019s worth of debt? And I don\u2019t want to belittle your debt but I\u2019ve heard stories of people like $100,000, $200,000. Rock Star Finance has a bloggers\u2019 net worth and at the bottom, if somebody is like negative $600,000, it\u2019s mostly student loans but that\u2019s still $600,000. Do you have $600,000 laying around just waiting to be deployed at your student loans?<\/p>\n<p>I mean, I\u2019m not talking smack about that person. I think they\u2019re two doctors or something but still. That\u2019s got to be pretty soul-crushing to wake up every morning to that. And you know, having no debt, I think all three of us are debt-free on this call. So I don\u2019t wake up worrying about debt. I don\u2019t go to bed worrying. My phone doesn\u2019t ring and I\u2019m like, oh, which bill collector is that? So the work is so worth the reward of being free.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Yeah, it is. Like, it\u2019s amazing. It gives you so much. You can stay at home with your kids if you want to. You know what I mean? You\u2019re no longer in chains. You\u2019re no longer\u2014the other thing is like, we were just talking about this, is it makes you excited to make more money. Do you know what I mean? Because when you\u2019re paying off your debt, it\u2019s like I can make more money to pay more debt.<\/p>\n<p>And now, it\u2019s like, if John wants a Corvette, he can be like, okay, let\u2019s make a little extra money and we don\u2019t even have to take it off our budget. And that\u2019s what we do. We seek ways to get what we want. Budgeting is actually amazing. It\u2019s the most fun thing ever. We kind of like, when I say I turn it into a hobby, like we really did. When I say I\u2019m working on our budget, I\u2019m not talking about like sitting on a computer and on Excels.<\/p>\n<p>Like, we do what we call Pinterest pretty work books and worksheets. So if you have this like inner organizer in you that likes pretty things and pretty work books and things like that, everything that we do is all like gorgeous and it\u2019s almost like scrapbooking. John says my budgeting is like my scrapbook. It used to be. But it\u2019s like something of a creative outlet. You\u2019re sitting down. Everything is like laid out and it\u2019s just really fun. It really is. I promise. Try budgeting, it\u2019s super fun.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Try budgeting, it\u2019s super fun.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>What I want to go back to is, we talked and I asked you a question earlier about whether this was all at once or in stages and for me, my journey was really like a long process of just continuous optimization, bit by bit by bit as opportunity presented itself as time went on. And the word I used for this is \u201cthe grind\u201d. It\u2019s like you grind it out for a year, two years, 12-18 months, I found when I really look back, it\u2019s like I\u2019m a huge amount of progress every 12-18 months. But it didn\u2019t feel like it at all during that time. Did you kind of experience that when you were going through this journey as well?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Oh yeah, that\u2019s the exact same thing. So the first six months was like awful. It wasn\u2019t awful but that was like what I was doing. Do you know what I\u2019m saying? It took a lot to overcome the organizational problems that I had and then to start trying to make some progress and I really had that date in my head, like I could not stand the idea of working past his first birthday.<\/p>\n<p>But over that, we still look for ways to reduce our income. I would say the grind for us was almost two to three years. But year three, everything was a routine and we just kind of keep the routine going but I would say, before then, we were still just learning new skills. It\u2019s like skill-building and it\u2019s different skills for different people depending on what you spend money on. Like some people have to figure out how to reduce their interest, which credit cards to pay off.<\/p>\n<p>For us, it was all grocery budget, figuring out how to make our groceries last the entire month. How to cook at home, add a meal prep, how to get out of the awkward everybody else goes out to eat at lunch at work and then you\u2019re like, well, I don\u2019t really want to spend $70 bucks a week so how do I do this and still have friends at work? And figuring out all of those little things that we never had to think about before.<\/p>\n<p>So it took us a lot time to get out of everything and we also say the art of saying no, when people are like, oh do you want to go to this rock concert and you\u2019re like, well of course I do but it\u2019s also going to be like $200. It\u2019s like trying to figure out how to say no but still having a lot of fun and still maintaining friendships. Because if you just say no every time everybody asks you to do anything, it\u2019s like you have no friends.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>This is exactly how I felt during this. I didn\u2019t have to get out of debt. I was trying to build my financial foundation from which to house hack and then begin investing. That was my goal.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Way fancier than what I did.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Do it Scott\u2019s way.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>I really wanted to get ahead and get on the other side of the financial equation here where I had a little bit of passive income and some things working for me and I just remembered doing exactly what you\u2019re talking about like saying no sacrificing, optimizing, and now I look back and that\u2019s the part that I\u2019m really proud of. It sucked while I was doing it.<\/p>\n<p>It didn\u2019t suck\u2014actually my life got better bit by bit, day by day, month by month. You know. Year by year. But it was a struggle at first and now I\u2019m like, that\u2019s the part where I really became a better person, a better worker, better with my finances, equipped to handle money for the rest of my life, I think.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Absolutely. Did you notice, by the way, I noticed in the beginning as far as the art of say no goes, in the beginning, you have this huge entourage of people and it\u2019s not that they weren\u2019t real friendships but I feel like you discover your people in your real circle when they support you in your efforts to save money. We came out of that with like ridiculously close friends and I feel like once we figured out who our people were and who we were spending all of our time with, it became no problem at all.<\/p>\n<p>We would have game nights at our best friends\u2019 houses. We would go to different houses and we\u2019d have game nights. We\u2019d put the kids to bed. We would stay up until like 2:00am drinking wine and craft beer and playing board games and we would have the most fun ever and then we\u2019d wake up the kids at like 2:00 in the morning and go home. It was almost like being in college.<\/p>\n<p>But like, the cost of this was zero compared to if you go to an expensive restaurant with friends, you talk for a couple of minutes or whatever\u2014you spend a hundred dollars on babysitters, you spend a hundred dollars on your meal and like, you have a good night but like in comparison I find that when you do things that are cheap, it\u2019s not like it sucks. It\u2019s actually way more fun. It\u2019s just nobody ever does it. You know what I mean? People don\u2019t think about it or try it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yeah, absolutely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>People don\u2019t\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Oh, go ahead, Mindy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>We\u2019re both going to agree with you. We\u2019re fighting who can agree with you more. Yeah, and that\u2019s Sarah Wilson, who will be on the show in a couple of weeks. She had the same thing. She had the same tip. She would have friends over and it\u2019s like, you know what, I made it a point to pay off my debt so I just said no to everything and I told my friends what I was doing and I think there\u2019s this big shame or stigma around oh, I want to pay off my debt. Why is that shameful? I don\u2019t want to have debt. Nobody wants to have debt. There is no big prize at the end for the person with the most debt.<\/p>\n<p>So do these fun things and not everybody is your friend. The people who want to go out and spend a hundred dollars a night, $300 a night, go out to bars and drink all the time, they might not have the same goals as you. They probably don\u2019t have the same goals as you and that\u2019s not to say that going out is a bad thing. But if your goal is to pay off debt, then buckle down and do it because like I said before, nothing feels as good as\u2014nothing tastes as good as getting feels. Well you know what, nothing feels as good as being out of debt.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Completely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Okay, now you agree with her, Scott.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>I also agree. I guess moving on, before we get to kind of our <em>Famous Four<\/em> and wrap up here, do you have any other tips that you want to talk about for people that are getting started with this? I know you have your first three things that you mentioned to get out there. Any other mindset things that you want to mention or, I\u2019m struggling to get into this, what do I need to hear?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>So the number one thing that we hear is that, well the thing is I really want to get started in budgeting but I can\u2019t because\u2014and some of them are really, really good reasons. My significant other just got diagnosed with cancer. I\u2019m really sick. I\u2019ve got a little one that\u2019s sick. Legit reasons. And there\u2019s also a slew of other things. Well, I\u2019ve got 15 people in my house for a week. I\u2019ve got, Thanksgiving is coming up then Christmas. I don\u2019t want to ruin the kids\u2019 Christmas. We\u2019re getting married.<\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s all these reasons not to budget but I love my readers enough to say you have to do it anyway and this is why. You are already doing the hard thing. If you are struggling with paying off debt or if you are living paycheck to paycheck or just not saving any money, right? You\u2019re already doing the hard thing. The easier thing is just to take a couple of months of your life, get it under control and make it so that it\u2019s a routine.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s like shopping or like taking a shower, brushing your teeth. It\u2019s not going to like suck your soul out to continue doing this for the rest of your life and if you can put the time in now and if you can find time and space for this now, it\u2019s a skill that you will have for the rest of your life that will pay you back tenfold but you have to start.<\/p>\n<p>Even if you start and suck, it\u2019s better to start now than just be like, well, after the holidays, when January comes, I\u2019m really going to get into it or there\u2019s always going to be something else. There\u2019s always going to be a point in the future that you\u2019re going to say that you\u2019re going to start and you\u2019re never going to start. So just, the second you listen to this, we\u2019re going to start tonight. Right now.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Awesome.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>I love yelling at people. It\u2019s like my favorite. And a trooper in me coming out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>I could just imagine you pulling your gun on somebody.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Which is funny because I have no idea how I survived. I spent nine years in that job and I\u2019m like, I have no idea how I did that. Go figure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>There are very few people who could be\u2014I don\u2019t know how to say this without being offensive. There are people that I find less cop-ish than you. Because you always have a big smile on your face and you exude happiness and positivity and you know, when police officers pull you over, they\u2019re not like, hey, how\u2019s it going? I\u2019m so happy to see you. They\u2019re like, why are you speeding? So you know, it\u2019s just very difficult to\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>I think I was a great trooper but I think my supervisor would have probably liked me to write more tickets. I\u2019m like, no, they really were sorry. Like, I swear. They were super nice people.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Mindy, you seem to have a lot of experience getting tickets, is that true?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>No comment. I plead the fifth.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Well awesome, let\u2019s go ahead and move onto our <em>Famous Four<\/em>. These are the same four questions that we ask every single guest and we\u2019ll just jump right into it. The first one of these is what is your favorite finance or business-related book?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>So it\u2019s <em>Total Money Makeover <\/em>by Dave Ramsey. I am pretty much a Dave Ramsey fan through and through. So anything he writes, I\u2019m like I\u2019ll listen to it all or read it all. He\u2019s awesome. Or maybe it\u2019s Scott\u2019s book. What\u2019s Scott\u2019s book\u2019s name?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>That\u2019s going to be my next favorite. For life. <em>Set for Life.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>What was your favorite part?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Part Two. Chapter Two. Yeah. I love Dave Ramsey as well. On the original BiggerPockets podcast, the number one recommended book is the <em>Rich Dad, Poor Dad<\/em> by Robert Kiyasaki. I think <em>Total Money Makeover <\/em>is going to be the number one recommended book on this show because I think everybody has said that so far? Not Erin Chase.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Probably.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>It\u2019s just a really great book. I think that Dave Ramsey does an amazing job of taking you from whatever debt level you are all the way up to zero where now you\u2019re even and you don\u2019t have debt anymore. He does a really awesome job with that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>And I kind of like the fact that he yells at you. I respond really well to that. I don\u2019t want someone to be like, oh, it\u2019s going to be okay. I want someone to be like fix it now. Right now.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Yeah, I don\u2019t want somebody to yell at me so I\u2019m totally going to do it so he stops yelling at me. See, I like it. I wish to be effective. Okay, what was your biggest money mistake?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Oh, gosh. So, we have a $300,000 townhome that is 900 square feet over three stories, no bathroom in the middle level and it dropped almost $100,000 after the bubble burst. We learned a very important, lifelong lesson about real estate in that we should actually research into what the heck we\u2019re doing before we buy a house for $300,000.<\/p>\n<p>That was, I think, our biggest money mistake. And we\u2019re still paying for that one. We have renters now but we became reluctant landlords for that and we\u2019re kind of, I think that\u2019s kind of the next goal is we look for ways to maybe instead of being reluctant landlords, being opportunistic landlords and turning that into a happy ending.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>There\u2019s a great website that can help you out with that if you ever\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>I heard about that. BiggerPockets, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>BiggerPockets.com. You know, I think maybe somebody wrote a book on rental property investing. What is that called, Scott?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>I think it\u2019s called <em>The Book on Rental Property Investing<\/em> by Mr. Brandon Turner.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>That is really\u2014by Mr. Brandon Turner. Maybe you\u2019ve heard of him. Yeah, let\u2019s send Rosemarie a copy of that book so she can start.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Seriously, on the happy story.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>I don\u2019t want to say so she can start doing it right but so she can start doing it right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Probably, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Awesome. What is your best piece of advice for people who are just starting out? I know you\u2019ve given a lot of these now so this might be redundant if you want to restate.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>So, highest ROI. Let\u2019s say you\u2019re just trying to reduce your budget. You\u2019re reducing how much you spend. Number one spot for most people, I\u2019m assuming you don\u2019t have some crazy spending thing that I don\u2019t know about\u2014number one spot to reduce your budget is almost always in groceries. So that\u2019s the spot that you should focus on.<\/p>\n<p>But again, there\u2019s a little bit of skill-building involved in there. So if you don\u2019t know how to cook or if you\u2019re not really good at keeping up on dishes, you need to learn this skills before you attack the grocery budget. But when John and I, just John and I\u2014we didn\u2019t even have kids at that point. We were spending $1,600 a month on groceries to feed two adult people. I know, right? Whenever I say that I\u2019m so embarrassed. But now, at the end, I\u2019m like, oh, it\u2019s great because it\u2019s better now.<\/p>\n<p>But I think at our lowest, we were able to spend between $250 and $300 to feed my husband and I and our two kids a month, right? So that\u2019s mostly with freezer cooking. That\u2019s no extreme couponing. That\u2019s definitely a lot of Aldi. High five to Aldi. But once you are able to really tackle that, that makes a massive difference.<\/p>\n<p>Now, part of that was chronically disorganized, we would go out and buy a ton of groceries, let it all rot in the fridge and then we would eat out every night. So skill-building has to come first but if you\u2019re looking for the biggest impact, it\u2019s almost always the grocery budget.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>And that\u2019s the biggest variable expense in someone\u2019s budget. That\u2019s the one that kind of varies month to month. Some people might have more rent, for example.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Yeah, I mean it\u2019s the easiest one. And also like if you\u2019re going to be making a big decision like buying a $300,000, 900 square foot townhouse, maybe do a little upfront thinking about that one. Talk to some people.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Awesome.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Where can people find out more about you, Rosemarie?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>So, I\u2019m at BusyBudgeter.com and we actually have a special link I think you guys are going to put in the Show Notes for you guys, so it\u2019s going to be BusyBudgeter.com\/BiggerPockets.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Awesome, and what does that BusyBudgeter.com\/BiggerPockets get you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>So we have a 90-day budget boot camp that we\u2019ve put\u2014we\u2019ve had 65,000 people go through, and what it actually does is it takes you from like chronically disorganized like I\u2019ve got dishes exploding all over my house, I haven\u2019t done my laundry in a month, I kind of suck at being an adult\u2014it takes you from that moment to being able to get out of the paycheck to paycheck cycle.<\/p>\n<p>So we teach all of those skills in the order that you need to learn them and the idea is that you\u2019re going to be able to go through these challenges, work on one skill a week. It\u2019s not overwhelming, I promise. It\u2019s way simpler than you\u2019re thinking it is in your head.<\/p>\n<p>And I promise, it\u2019s also going to be kind of fun. But the idea is that we give you the things in order so that they have the maximum return on your investment of time and that at the end of it, you\u2019ll be out of the paycheck to paycheck cycle. Then, you can do whatever the heck you want to do. You can keep budgeting. You can do investments. You can do whatever you want as long as we get you out of the paycheck to paycheck cycle, we\u2019re happy. And it\u2019s free. Did I mention it\u2019s free?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>No, I was just going to ask you how much does that cost?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>It\u2019s totally free. When we created this, everybody else was kind of charging for courses and the thing is that most of my readers can\u2019t pay for it. You know what I mean? They really, really can\u2019t pay for it. So we made the agreement to keep the 90-day budget boot camp free always and we stand by that. It\u2019s been really, really important to us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>I\u2019m sorry, did you say 65,000 people have taken this?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>65,000, yeah, and the testimonials are insane. Like we keep a Slack Channel with just testimonials from it and I try not to go in there too much because I always cry but it\u2019s nice when you have a bad day and you\u2019re like, oh my gosh, see? I know it\u2019s like awesome.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>That is awesome. That\u2019s so many people that you\u2019ve helped with this problem. I mean, that\u2019s amazing. Definitely go check out that link and that will be there in the Show Notes as well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>And that\u2019s one of the number one questions that we get on the BiggerPockets forums is how do I start investing in real estate with no money and bad credit? Well, you don\u2019t. You don\u2019t. You fix your money. Fix your no money and bad credit situation.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>That\u2019s really funny. Wow, that\u2019s weird.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Well, you know, real estate can change your life. Real estate, it can provide you with so much financial freedom that you can quit your job and live the life that you want to live and do whatever you want to do but you can\u2019t do it if you don\u2019t have any money. I mean, nobody\u2019s just going to give you a free house. Yeah, I promise.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Or if you are able to do it and you are unprepared and you don\u2019t have the financial foundation for much to invest, it can make your life way worse. We\u2019ve heard that plenty of times, too. So that\u2019s why we go through this process. Almost all of the successful investors that I know have gone through the process of getting their financial house in order and probably their regular house in order before they go ahead and begin thinking about making large real estate investment purchases.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>That\u2019s really funny. I need that book. I\u2019ve got to get that. Next year, I\u2019m going to be a real estate investment person.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>We\u2019ll have you on the original BiggerPockets podcast. Have your real estate empire.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>I can be your success story, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Awesome. Well, the last question here of our <em>Famous Four<\/em>. What is your favorite joke to tell at parties? What are you going to tell your 15 guests in your house this week?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>So I am the most socially awkward person you\u2019ve ever met. If that hasn\u2019t gone through in the podcast, I don\u2019t know what happened. That\u2019s why I\u2019m a blogger, because I love writing but talking to people, I\u2019m like, whoa. That\u2019s a lot. So if I\u2019m telling any jokes or laughing at a party, I\u2019m probably making fun of myself. I do that a lot. Sorry.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Yeah, the social awkward did not come through. You just are this effervescent ball of energy with a huge smile.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Aw.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Charisma. Charisma, it oozes out of you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Yes. That\u2019s a really good word, Scott. Perfectly describe her.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Yeah, so I\u2019m definitely not a joker though. What\u2019s yours? I want to know yours. Do you guys have a favorite joke?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>My God, Scott is the worst person on the planet with jokes\u2014he tells all the ad-jokes. He doesn\u2019t have any kids but he\u2019s got the dad joke thing down pat.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>I just have to cut on puns all the time. I don\u2019t know. It\u2019s a very annoying tendency, I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Some people appreciate them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>That\u2019s funny.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Well, here\u2019s a toast you can give to your guests.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>There are red ships and there are blue ships, but there are no ships quite like friendships. And you know what happened when the red ship collided with that blue ship?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>What happened?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Both the crews are marooned.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Oh, my God.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Thankfully, every day.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>You\u2019re welcome. You\u2019ll use it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Every day, Rosemarie. He tells jokes like that every day.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>You are so lucky.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Tell it at the office.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>All righty, well this has been so much fun, guys.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>This has been really great. Rosemarie, thank you so much for coming and talking to us about budgeting. I really appreciate your time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Thank you guys for having me. This was awesome. I love you guys.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>We love you, too. Okay, we\u2019ll talk to you later.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rosemarie: <\/strong>Okay, bye.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Bye.<\/p>\n<p>All right, that was Rosemarie Groner from TheBusyBudgeter.com. Thank you, Rosemarie, for joining us on our Number Four episode of BiggerPockets Money. Scott, what did you learn from today\u2019s show?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Again, I thought she had such an incredible story that she came from. She was in such a tight position. They are both police officers. And she was able, what was previously two incomes in a very tight situation she was in her life\u2014she was able to just take complete control of her finances, in fact, and quit.<\/p>\n<p>And support the entire family on one income. That\u2019s a 50% reduction. They\u2019re doing it for a 50% reduction in a level of household income. Yet, they\u2019re able to make it work and then come to build wealth and then accelerate that wealth creation and then start a business all because of the power of her organization and the very beginning and getting command of every aspect of her life.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Yes. And her energy is infectious. I sat there listening to her talk about all of these things, I\u2019m like, I want to get out of debt, too! Wait, I don\u2019t have any debt. But she\u2019s just, she\u2019s so inspiring. I\u2019m so happy that she was here to spend some time with us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yeah, again I just think that what\u2019s got there, what she speaks to is really an incredible business-like optimization of her life. Right? I mean, she keeps inventory of her shampoo. That\u2019s nuts.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>I know, I\u2019m thinking what can I put in my little supply cabinet so that I can always have it and I never have to run to the grocery store. That\u2019s such a big tip. And you\u2019ve got to make sure it doesn\u2019t go bad but deodorant doesn\u2019t go bad, like she said. Shampoo doesn\u2019t go bad and have you ever been there where you have to run out to the store and you can\u2019t make it another day without running out? It stinks.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes, I am a single guy so if that ever happens then, you know, just shower without the soap that day and get it tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Ew, no. That\u2019s gross.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yeah, you know.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>I always have hotel soaps.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>No, but I think that if you are in a position in life where you\u2019re starting out and you are really struggling to make any progress, this is the approach to take. You\u2019ve ruthlessly optimized, but you begin to take the simple steps that she talked about. Get your laundry done. Get your dishes done. And then, you go and expand that where you can and where you\u2019re willing to, to each aspect of your finances that you have direct control over and month by month, week by week, you\u2019re going to make progress. And you\u2019re going to start to see those results accelerate and accelerate and accelerate and so you\u2019ve built up a pretty sizeable financial foundation. And then you\u2019re off to the races with the rest of the stuff we\u2019re talking about on this journey to financial freedom.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Yes, and I don\u2019t know if you as a single man caught the tip where she and her husband did this together. When you and your husband are on the same playing field, when you\u2019re playing the same game, you are going to accomplish so much more than when he doesn\u2019t have any interest in it or she doesn\u2019t have any interest in it and you\u2019re just doing it yourself.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yeah, absolutely. I have a girlfriend and we actually are starting to do our goals together on a weekly basis. We have little goals and we reward ourselves with a little bit of wine or beer and hang out, watch a movie after that. But it\u2019s like a little ritual we have on Wednesday nights now and it\u2019s pretty awesome.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Oh, that\u2019s nice. I\u2019m really excited for you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>So yeah, I think it\u2019s great and I think I\u2019ve never been married but I can see why that would be obviously a huge part of your ability to get ahead on this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Yeah, when you\u2019re both on the same page, it does make such a difference.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>All right, so should we close out here?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>We should.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Awesome, well before we close out, let\u2019s just quickly beg for a little bit and say, hey guys, if you like the show, if you like us, or even if you just like Rosemarie, would you please go ahead and give us a review on iTunes? We are a brand new show here. This is our fifth ever episode and we\u2019re still trying to get those reviews in place to let everybody know whether or not we\u2019re awesome or we suck. So if we\u2019re awesome, please go ahead and give us a review on iTunes and if you don\u2019t like us, well\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>You can still review us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>You could.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Constructive criticism.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Awesome. Well anyways, please go ahead and give us reviews. Give us a shout out. Maybe share us on Facebook, Twitter, or whatever the kids these days are using.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>The kids, like you\u2019re not 20.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yeah, but I don\u2019t use Facebook or whatever the stuff is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Mindy: <\/strong>Okay. For Episode Four of the BiggerPockets Money Show, this is Mindy Jensen. Over and out.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<h2>Watch the Podcast Here<\/h2>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"From Disorganized to Debt Free Through Budgeting and Routine with Rosemarie Groner | BP Money 04\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/iMMBg1bBV54?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h2>Help Us Out!<\/h2>\n<p>Help us reach new listeners on <a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/biggerpockets-money-podcast\/id1330225136\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">iTunes<\/a> by leaving us a rating and review! It takes just 30 seconds.\u00a0Thanks! We really appreciate it!<\/p>\n<h2>In This Episode We Cover:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>Her backstory and how she got into <strong>budgeting<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>How to <strong>reduce spending<\/strong> to $23,000 a year<\/li>\n<li>How long her budgeting <strong>makeover<\/strong> took<\/li>\n<li>The importance of setting up <strong>routines that matter<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>How to talk with your <strong>spouse about money<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>Why you should focus on the things that get\u00a0the<strong> highest ROI<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>How to<strong> stay consistent<\/strong> and weather the struggles you&#8217;ll meet<\/li>\n<li><strong>And SO much more!<\/strong><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Links from the Show<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"\/renewsblog\/biggerpockets-podcast-261-tips-selling-properties-faster-money-mindy-jensen\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Podcast 261: 16 Tips for Selling Properties Faster and for More Money with Mindy Jensen<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"\/renewsblog\/biggerpockets-money-podcast-03-cutting-your-grocery-bill-in-half-erin-chase\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Money Podcast 03: Cutting Your Grocery Bill in Half with Erin Chase from $5 Dinners<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Books Mentioned in this Show<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/setforlife\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>Set for Life<\/em><\/a> by Scott Trench<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/sellyourhome\" target=\"_blank\"><em>How to Sell Your Home<\/em><\/a> by Mindy Jensen<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/amzn.to\/2DPwAOu\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>The Total Money Makeover<\/em><\/a> Dave Ramsey<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/richdadpoordad\" target=\"_blank\"><em>Rich Dad Poor Dad<\/em><\/a> by Robert Kiyosaki<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/rentalbook\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>The Book on Rental Property Investing<\/em><\/a> by Brandon Turner<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Tweetable Topics:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>&#8220;When you actually figure out what you want and you have that goal, budgeting gets way easier.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22When%20you%20actually%20figure%20out%20what%20you%20want%20and%20you%20have%20that%20goal,%20budgeting%20gets%20way%20easier.%22%20BP%20Money%20Podcast%2004%20biggerpockets.com\/moneyshow04%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;In almost any salary, you can have anything you want with budgeting.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22In%20almost%20any%20salary,%20you%20can%20have%20anything%20you%20want%20with%20budgeting.%22%20BP%20Money%20Podcast%2004%20biggerpockets.com\/moneyshow04%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;You discover your real people and your circle when they support you in your efforts to save.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22You%20discover%20your%20real%20people%20and%20your%20circle%20when%20they%20support%20you%20in%20your%20efforts%20to%20save.%22%20BP%20Money%20Podcast%2004%20biggerpockets.com\/moneyshow04%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Connect with Rosemarie<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.busybudgeter.com\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Rosemarie&#8217;s Website<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/busybudgeter.com\/biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">90 Day Budget Bootcamp<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Rosemarie shares how she cut $23,000 of her spending, paid off debt in less than four years, and grew her income so that her husband could quit his day job.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":353007,"featured_media":95940,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[6473],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-95937","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-biggerpocketsmoney"],"acf":[],"comment_count":0,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/95937","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/353007"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=95937"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/95937\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/95940"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=95937"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=95937"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=95937"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}