{"id":99614,"date":"2018-06-04T00:02:43","date_gmt":"2018-06-04T06:02:43","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/renewsblog\/?p=99614"},"modified":"2023-04-26T05:19:27","modified_gmt":"2023-04-26T11:19:27","slug":"biggerpockets-money-podcast-23-a-mini-retirement-road-trip-in-your-20s-with-becky-and-noah","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/biggerpockets-money-podcast-23-a-mini-retirement-road-trip-in-your-20s-with-becky-and-noah","title":{"rendered":"A Mini-Retirement Road Trip in Your 20s with Becky &#038; Noah"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><strong>Becky and Noah<\/strong> are in the first half of their gap gear, a pre-FI road trip around America. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">They didn\u2019t grow up rich, but they carefully planned out their life to avoid student debt. Both earned the same Chick Evans Caddie Scholarship to Purdue University that paid full tuition and came with housing. They made smart career choices earning employable, in-demand degrees that allowed them to earn high salaries.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">After discovering FI on Reddit, they made a few tweaks to their lifestyle, quit their jobs, and hit the open road. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This episode shows that financial independence isn\u2019t just a pipe dream, and while Becky and Noah aren\u2019t there yet, they are well on their way.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/biggerpockets-money-podcast\/id1330225136\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Click here<\/a>\u00a0to listen on iTunes.<\/p>\n<h2>Listen to the Podcast Here<\/h2>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https:\/\/playlist.megaphone.fm?e=BIGPOC3488902295&#038;light=false\" width=\"100%\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h2>Read the Transcript Here<\/h2>\n<div style=\"overflow-y: scroll; max-height: 400px; background: #eee; padding: 20px; border: 1px solid #ddd;\">\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Welcome to BiggerPockets Money Podcast, Show Number 23.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>\u201cOne of the ways I like to describe it is that there\u2019s a bunch of banks out there offering this bet that you can take. They\u2019re going to bet you two free flights that you can\u2019t handle credit responsibly. And if you win the bet, then you get the flight. So are the hotels and whatever else. And I mean, there are a dozen different banks offering this in a dozen different ways and if you can handle credit, if you can be responsible with it, then there\u2019s a lot of money and travel opportunities to be had\u201d.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>It\u2019s time for a new American dream, one that doesn\u2019t involve working in a cubicle for 40 years, barely scraping by. Whether you\u2019re looking to get your financial house in order, invest the money you already have, or discover new paths for wealth\u2019s creation, you\u2019re in the right place. This show is for anyone who has money or wants more, this is the BiggerPockets Money podcast.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>How\u2019s it going, everybody? I\u2019m Scott Trench and I\u2019m here with my co-host, Miss Mindy Jensen. How are you doing today, Mindy? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Scott, I am doing fabulously. The sun is shining. The birds are chirping. And for the next five minutes or so, it\u2019s not going to rain. So life is pretty good over here. How about you?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Awesome. I am doing great. I am excited for today\u2019s episode. We have a great young couple and yeah, you want to tell us a little bit about them?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yeah, so on today\u2019s episode, we have an example of a young couple who have just kind of made smart decisions their whole life with an eye towards the future and what the future could hold. Becky and Noah shared their journey to financial independence. They chose employable college degrees, financing college through full-ride scholarships. They earned high salaries and maximized their savings rate. Pretty much everything you are supposed to do with FI, they did. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And now, they are 27 years old. They are three months into a gap-year after quitting their jobs to travel around the country and just kind of enjoy themselves and see what it\u2019s like to be 27 with no cares in the world. And I just really enjoy talking to them. They are way farther ahead on their journey than I ever was at age 27. And it\u2019s nice to see people who are thinking ahead. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Yeah, what I am thinking is, what I think the power of this episode is, is this is the \u2018why\u2019. This is the \u2018why\u2019 you just make basic, solid, correct choices throughout your life, over the course of a decade or so and set yourselves up for a lifestyle that is really unmatchable. These guys are living the dream. They are doing exactly what they want, when they want, where they want. All over the country. Visiting friends and family, cool places, having fun, relaxing when they want to. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And that\u2019s why you do it. You set yourself up for FI so you can have that option. And they\u2019re hardworking folks and I bet you they\u2019re going to go right back within a year or two and begin changing the world in a way that that\u2019s unique to them and within their kind of constraints and abilities. And they\u2019re going to go after it, and they have the complete freedom to do so on their terms when they\u2019re ready. This is why. This is why you do it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yes, that\u2019s a really good description of the show. Before we get into the show, before we bring Becky and Noah in, let\u2019s make a request for people to send in guest suggestions. We did this a couple of weeks ago and we asked for families on their path to FI. I have received a lot of people responding and e-mailing me their story and it\u2019s going to be so awesome. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">We\u2019ve got a few family episodes coming up in the next couple of weeks and now, we\u2019re looking for single parents or divorced parents to share their journey to financial independence, too. It\u2019s not just for families. It\u2019s not just for single people, well, I guess single, no kids. What would you call yourself, Scott? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I am a single guy with no kids, so I am a SINK. And then there\u2019s a double income, no kids, right? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>DINK. That\u2019s Becky and Noah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Becky and Noah. And then we\u2019re going to start interviewing a couple of families who have\u2014I don\u2019t know what the term is for them.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yeah, I was trying to think, what is it? Dual income, with kids? DUWK? I don\u2019t know.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>So there\u2019s a single family with kids, right? And then there\u2019s single-income spouse, you know, a divorcee or a widow or a single parent.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>What\u2019s that, SINS? Maybe we should say something different.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>But these are\u2014we\u2019re working kind of from easiest to hardest here, you know. And I think that it\u2019ll be very interesting if you know anybody that\u2019s working towards financial independence with some constraints that are beyond that kind of normal, outside the normal. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Like, not a single guy like me, not a married couple like Becky and Noah, not even a married couple like Mindy and Carl. But what are some disadvantages that go beyond that with a single parent or divorcee or whatever that really kind of puts constraints to moving towards FI. How can we hear stories about people overcoming those challenges? So if you know anybody like that, we\u2019d love to hear it and please send them along to <a href=\"mailto:Scott@BiggerPockets.com\" target=\"_blank\"><span class=\"s2\">Scott@BiggerPockets.com<\/span><\/a> or <a href=\"mailto:Mindy@BiggerPockets.com\" target=\"_blank\"><span class=\"s2\">Mindy@BiggerPockets.com<\/span><\/a>.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yeah, that will make a really great episode, too. And I am sure that I am going to get a lot more fantastic responses because I probably have 40 people that have sent me their stories and it\u2019s fantastic. So the response has been amazing. I\u2019m very excited to get those shows on the air in the next couple of weeks. But before we bring in Becky and Noah, let\u2019s hear a word from today\u2019s sponsor. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Today\u2019s sponsor is FreshBooks. If you\u2019re an entrepreneur who is not on top of your business financials, you need to get a good dose of FreshBooks in your life. FreshBooks is the ridiculously easy accounting software made specifically for small business owners who need to find a better way to deal with their paperwork. It takes literally about 30 seconds to create and send a polished, professional-looking invoice. And with two clicks, FreshBooks can set you up to receive payments online. FreshBooks can even show you whether or not a client has looked at the invoice you\u2019ve e-mailed. For a 30-day, unrestricted trial, go to FreshBooks.com\/BPMoney and enter BiggerPockets Money in the \u201chow did you hear about us\u201d section.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">All right, big thanks to today\u2019s sponsor. Mindy, should we bring in Becky and Noah?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yes, please.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Becky and Noah, welcome to the BiggerPockets Money Show. How\u2019s it going?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>Good. Thank you for having us. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Great. Same.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Well let\u2019s go ahead and start right from the beginning of your journey. How did you guys meet and then how did you get started on your kind of journey to financial independence?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>So, it all kind of ties in together. So we met in college and the reason we met is that we both got the same full-ride scholarship to college. So that was at Purdue University and the full-ride is called the Chick Evans Scholarship that we got for being golf caddies. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So we both caddied at our respective country clubs, me from Indiana and her from Illinois, and caddied for at least six plus years and then had good grades in high school, had some financial need for our families, and we were able to get full tuition and housing scholarships to college, which is where we met. So it\u2019s very magical in that way.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>So you\u2019re basically saying that this golf caddy scholarship allowed you to kind of graduate from a really prestigious university, both of you, without any debt. Is that more or less the story there?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>That\u2019s correct, yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>That\u2019s awesome.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>And what was your work when you graduated?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>So I have a nursing degree, so I worked in labor delivery for the past five years.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>And then, so I graduated with a degree in computer engineering which is about half computer hardware, half computer software, but I really love the software side a lot more so I ended up getting a job in Seattle working at Amazon. So complete computer science job. But that was amazing and that\u2019s the reason we moved across the country from Purdue. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So we\u2019re both from the Midwest. Purdue is in the Midwest and then we both moved all the way across the country to Seattle, one for the great job opportunity, and that allowed us to<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>earn and save a ton of money, which set us pretty aggressively forward to the path to financial independence. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>So how much were you guys earning and saving out of college? How much were you able to accumulate over the last couple of years? How are you able to live cheaply in Seattle as well? That\u2019s a pretty expensive place.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>I think that we both grew up pretty frugally. We have never naturally wanted to spend money so that was just a big bonus for us.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Out of college, I got the big tech job. Becky was able to find a nursing job in Seattle not long after we actually moved there, and combined, we were making about $150,000 out of college. Which is amazing. We\u2019re very fortunate for that to be possible. But yeah, as Becky said, we\u2019re fairly naturally frugal. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">We just kind of kept the college lifestyle going after we moved to Seattle. And at first, because we didn\u2019t know about FI at the time, we didn\u2019t really have a purpose for what we were saving money for, but we were saving money already so that put us way ahead. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>So when did you kind of discover the concept of FI? When did that\u2014and was there a change maybe when you discovered that?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>When we first discovered FI, it was about a year after we moved to Seattle. I actually found the FI subreddit on Reddit. I believe they made the personal finance a default sometime in 2014, and then whenever people talked about retirement or early retirement, people linked them over to financial independence and then that kind of, they had an amazing FAQ, which is like the basics of the FI world we need to think about, what people are talking about, what people recommend. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And that, of course, led to places like Mr. Money Mustache and Early Retirement Extreme and a dozen other blogs, just an endless stream of information available to consume. And I just ate it up as fast as I could. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Did you share that with Becky and she was on board right away or did it take some convincing? Becky\u2019s shaking her head.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>No, he kind of dove into it pretty intensely and started kind of explaining it to me a little bit and it just didn\u2019t make sense to me at all. And I actually really enjoyed my job at that time. So I wasn\u2019t\u2014the idea of quitting just sounded really, really strange to me, especially early in. Because I was like, oh, this is going to be forever and this is going to be my life. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So it took about a good year, I think, for you to kind of explain it to me. And it was more just him\u2014what am I trying to say\u2014living the lifestyle you wanted to live and me just kind of looking at that and realizing, oh, this is actually kind of cool. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And I started kind of increasing my career a little bit. I became a charge nurse and I just increased my responsibility at work and I became really stressed out, really burnt out, and realized I don\u2019t think I want to do this forever, so that\u2019s when I\u2019m like, I like this idea of walking away a little bit earlier.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>So what timeframe\u2014sorry, Scott\u2014what timeline am I looking at here? Because you guys aren\u2019t 50 years old. You have graduated rather recently. When did you graduate from college?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>I graduated in 2012. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>And I was one year behind. So we\u2019re both 27 right now.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>So you haven\u2019t been working for a long time. I can hear people listening saying, you\u2019re not old enough to be burned out yet. But you know, being a nurse is really stressful. Let me tell you how stressful it is, Becky. But you\u2019re in charge of a lot of things so that\u2019s\u2014I can totally see getting burned out. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I\u2019ve been burned out at jobs really quickly after starting. So yeah, I guess being able to see how much fun it is to not do this and oh look, a stress-free lifestyle. That could be a big turnaround point. So how long did you work? Five years? Six years?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Yeah, so we got to Seattle and we lived there for about a year and just as we mentioned, kind of naturally saved money. And then at the beginning of 2014, we actually bought a townhouse in Seattle because we thought we\u2019d spend a while there and at least at the time, the mortgage payment for the equivalent rental was cheaper so that was the only really math we did. We were like oh, that makes sense, we should get a house. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Fortunately, it was one of the best accidental investments we ever made just because you could have bought anything in Seattle a few years ago and done very well. So we had our money saved for that. We bought our house and then we discovered FI soon after that. And then we started setting up our finances more efficiently to be like, oh, maybe we should be maxing out our 401Ks. Maybe we should pay more attention to IRAs. Maybe we should, I guess it gave our savings a purpose. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So we cut back a little bit on excessive things, just like buying new furniture all the time and stuff like that. Like, stuff we didn\u2019t really need to be spending money on. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>You act like we have like multiple series of furniture.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Noah Well, we bought a house, and then we filled it up pretty quickly. But yeah, so we were naturally frugal and then after discovering FI, after buying this house, we actually had a purpose for our savings and we just started making our whole financial world a lot more efficient and optimized for being able to retire early if we choose to.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Well, let\u2019s get into that. What specific efficiencies did you realize? You mentioned the 401K but can you just give me the rundown of what you\u2019re doing previously and what the change was once you began giving that purpose? Did your savings rate increase? Were you tracking it more? I don\u2019t know.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>Yeah, the biggest thing is we just started writing down everything that we were spending. You know, we both had a Mint account. I wasn\u2019t really super religious about it but he was, and every month, he would go through both of our expenses and kind of see where we were at and figure out exactly where all of our money was going and we were like, oh, we spent a lot of money on this this month. Maybe we should do that next month. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">We were just more conscious of it and being naturally frugal, it helps. And yes, we were able to like move money around and put money into specific things and he did a lot of research on investing and that\u2019s pretty much it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Yeah, so like once we started putting money away, so when we first got to Seattle in 2013, we weren\u2019t tracking our expenses very much. It was just kind of making sure we were cash flowing every month. We weren\u2019t spending more than we were making. We knew at least that much. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And then at the time, we were putting in the minimum we could in our 401K to still get the match, so that was like the standard advice we heard from people. At least get the match. Because like it\u2019s free money. So we were doing that already and then as soon as we discovered FI, we immediately bumped it up to the actual max, which is what, $18,500 or it was $18,000 a couple of years ago. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So we were both doing that and we were both maxing out our IRAs and we both, or at least I had access to an HSA when we discovered FI so we were maxing that out because it\u2019s the ultimate retirement account, as you may have read online. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Yeah, and beyond that, it was just putting money into a brokerage account and then just straight index funds all the way, so very standard FI. Everything is in either Total U.S. Market or Total International Market. So just all index funds as tax-efficiently as we can do it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Wow, have we heard from anybody recently about index funds, Scott?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Yes, what was the show number? We just had Jim Collins on the show and he talked about all the things behind index fund.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>He\u2019s the grandfather of index funds.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yeah, he is the grandfather of index funds. That was Show Number 20, so <\/span><span class=\"s2\">www.BiggePockets.com\/MoneyShow20<\/span><span class=\"s1\">. You can hear Jim\u2019s take on this but yeah, it sounds like a good choice for you, too.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Yeah, I mean it\u2019s just the simplicity of it. I mean, there may be much like better ways to invest or even like, okay, so there\u2019s not guaranteed ways to get more but there are ways to get more and that you can put more time in. But just index funds is just so simple, like we don\u2019t have to think about it. We just throw all our money in there and we\u2019re done. And we\u2019ll take the average back, just done very well over the 50 plus years and we\u2019ll take it going forward. So that\u2019s all we need.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>All right, so what is so great about your story is you just didn\u2019t make any mistakes. You got a full ride to college by playing your cards correctly in high school. You graduated debt-free. You got solid jobs. Not crazy incomes bt you know, two full-time college graduates getting a job at an average $75,000 is not extraordinary income right out of school. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And then you just saved and saved and spent reasonably. Sounds like you bought a reasonable house and you maxed out your 401K and you put all this stuff together. How much were you able to accumulate as a result of this over the you know, over the period that you worked out of college. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>At the moment, we are not revealing our net worth. That\u2019s not public information. But I will say that, you know how much income we were making out of college and at that point, we\u2019re maybe saving 25-30% and then over the next several years, we were able to ramp that up to like about 75%. So a very high percentage of our salaries were going to index funds every year.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Wow, 75%.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>I like that. Sorry, Scott.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>That\u2019s awesome. What I want to know is do you have any peers that graduated around the same time that got similar levels of income and were not able to produce this result. What did they do differently from you that maybe didn\u2019t allow them to get to where you are financially. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>I would say our closest friend that also went to Purdue and also graduated moved out to Seattle, also got a similar tech job and is on a similar path to us. I don\u2019t know if we have any close friends who graduated and moved across the country or even just found lucrative opportunities elsewhere. I mean, I guess the honest answer is I don\u2019t know what most of my friends\u2019 financial picture is. Like, it\u2019s not something that comes up in normal conversations so I don\u2019t know if they\u2019re saving or they\u2019re in crazy amounts of debt or what.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Let\u2019s rephrase this then. Why are you guys so well off and so able to stock pile a net worth and rapidly move towards financial independence but most people that graduate with these types of degrees and have similar paying jobs are not? What\u2019s the difference, do you think? You just described something that\u2019s not hard. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>Yeah. I think it\u2019s just when people live a college lifestyle and they finally get that first paycheck and they\u2019re like, oh my God, I can live. And I have money. And they want to spend it. It\u2019s the American dream, right? To grow up with the white picket fence and the house and the nice car and that\u2019s just what I think the world wants. But I mean, our outlook on it is just different. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Yeah, I think Becky hits on the big point. It\u2019s just lifestyle inflation. I think the majority of people that come out, whether they have a low-paying job or a high-paying job or somewhere in between, they just spend all of it or sometimes even more if they go into debt, if they don\u2019t understand the long-term consequences of that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But like, once we found this path, like we did get a couple of raises over the last five years when we were working. Like, none of that changed our lifestyle at all. We found a level of living that we were very comfortable with and that we could afford comfortably on our salaries and we just never inflated it year over year, even if we were making more money. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yeah, that\u2019s fantastic. That\u2019s kind of hard to do when you see all of your friends doing the same\u2014doing the opposite of what you\u2019re doing. So Scott said a moment ago, it sounds like you didn\u2019t make any mistakes. We had a guy on a couple of episodes ago, Tony Gayden, on Episode 21, where he was telling his story and it was just like obstacle after obstacle after obstacle, keeps being thrown his way, and it\u2019s just like get out of here. I\u2019m going to continue on my path and I\u2019m not going to let anything stop me. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And you know, it sounds like you guys really had an eye towards the future, even when you were in high school. You\u2019ve got this scholarship\u2014when did you discover the scholarship? You don\u2019t just get good grades and hope for the best, right? You had known about this before. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>Right, so my older brother caddied as well and we found out about the country club that we caddied at from a mutual family friend. So that person got us into the club and we started caddying and my brother obviously found out about it before I did, he\u2019s six years older than me, so he got the grades and he also got the scholarship and went to Northwestern in Illinois and so that was basically my goal starting as a caddy, was to get the scholarship. And my parents pushed me and they really wanted me to work and do really well and so I definitely thank them for me getting that whole scholarship. That\u2019s how I found out about it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Yeah, I mean it\u2019s a shout-out to my parents for me just having the whole opportunity to start with because my dad actually worked at the country club where I ended up caddying and when I started, I had no concept of like tuition or college or what I wanted to be doing. Because I started at like 13 years old. But at the time, it was just an amazing job because I mean, you would get outside. You\u2019d carry a golf bag for like four or five hours walking the whole time. So you\u2019re getting a pretty good workout. You\u2019re outside. You\u2019re in the sun, and then you go home with like $20-40 bucks spending money. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Like, that\u2019s just awesome as a kid. Luckily, I stuck with it and they pushed me to like actually put the time in and take the steps needed to get the scholarship later on once I realized how important that was. But at the beginning, I\u2019m just happy they set me up with the opportunity and I mean, I just loved it. I just loved being outside, being around golfers because I golfed myself. And just being outside. It was just a great summer job, regardless of the scholarship. And then that was an amazing boost at the end. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>Yeah, same for me.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>All right, let\u2019s fast forward to the present. So you guys, you did it right. At every stage, there\u2019s no major obstacle. You eliminated every major obstacle to financial success, starting from this position of getting the scholarship. Then you went to college, you got employable degrees. You found good jobs out of there. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">You behaved reasonably and didn\u2019t spend too much out of college. You saved a good chunk of your income, and then what are you doing now? Can you tell us about what are you doing right now, the last three months that other people that didn\u2019t make these same choices are unable to experience? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>What a leading question. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>I don\u2019t think you\u2019re looking for a specific answer. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>So as of January of this year, we are both unemployed and currently travelling across the country in what we\u2019re calling a gap year, or a mini-retirement. We didn\u2019t make full financial independence in five years but we are on track to get there in maybe another five years. So we\u2019re maybe about halfway or somewhere around there. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But we decided to just take this opportunity to where we were both looking to switch careers anyways, to just leave, travel for a while, use that amazing financial foundation that we built on the path to FI over the last five years and just tap into that a little bit to just have this amazing life opportunity to travel across the country for an entire year. So that is what we\u2019ve been doing for the last three months. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>So where have you gone specifically?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>So, we started in Seattle obviously. We drove down the coast and we have a dog so we dropped off our dog with my sister in San Francisco. And she\u2019s graciously taking him for the year and loving it. And then we kept going down through California. We cut over through Arizona, New Mexico, Texas. We had a wedding in Austin middle of March so we were there and then we came back through New Mexico, Arizona, up through Utah. We did all the national parks, state parks, and then now we\u2019re in Colorado, in Denver at the moment and it\u2019s been a blast.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Yep. So like we didn\u2019t start this trip with any specific goals like we want to see all 50 states or we want to see all national parks or we want to see some crazy checklist to follow. We just wanted to relax and so what we\u2019ve been doing is just travelling like on average, or not on an average day but on days that we move from city to city, we\u2019ll maybe drive three or four hours to the next town that sounds good. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">We\u2019ll check out national parks in the meantime. We\u2019ll visit with family and friends whenever we get the opportunity, if we\u2019re in the right part of the country. And it\u2019s just been amazing just to see so many parts of the country that we\u2019ve never seen before. And it\u2019s just amazing. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>That\u2019s awesome.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>So what is it like being unemployed after being employed for five years and going to college. This is something I think a lot of people struggle with. My husband struggled with this when he quit his job. He was like, oh, we reached the number well before he quit. And it was difficult for him to quit. And then once he did quit, he was like oh my goodness, I should have done that sooner. Like oh really, wow. Amazing that nobody ever told you that. So how is it being unemployed for you?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>It was honestly really hard at first. So I actually left my job back in August and I had just recently gotten a promotion and I was a supervisor of my unit, which was really, really struggling for me. It was very hard. And I got even more burnt out and more overwhelmed. And so when he finally told me to walk away, because it was making my life very hard, it was really easy after that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I\u2019m like, oh my God, I feel so much better and the six months leading up to our road trip, I sold all of our stuff and that was my little mini job, was to get our life ready for this year. It\u2019s been great. I mean, we wake up when we want to and we basically can just do whatever we want to do and I don\u2019t know, I don\u2019t hate it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>That sounds awful.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Like Becky\u2019s situation, very hard to quit. I actually pulled the trigger, being in the position she was and having so many people rely on her. But amazing once you actually did. No regrets of any kind. And then for me, at least in big tech, it\u2019s rare for people to stick around a company for more than a couple of years, which is a more modern phenomenon or I don\u2019t know what. But at least like, between all the big tech companies, it\u2019s very rare for anybody to stick around for more than a couple of years. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I was there coming up on five so I was kind of due to switch anyways because usually, you make more switching companies than getting promoted within for whatever reason. So I was kind of ready for a transition anyways. Becky was burnt out so I\u2019m like, why don\u2019t we just both quit? It\u2019ll be fine. We\u2019ve been doing most of the things right in our lives up until this point. We have this opportunity. Let\u2019s take it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>Yeah, it was a lot easier because he\u2019s really good with the math and the numbers and he like showed it to me and all of our spreadsheets and he\u2019s like, look at what we have. Look at what we can do. We\u2019ll be fine. And so that did make it a little easier as well.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>And it doesn\u2019t hurt that we both have very employable jobs at the moment to where we\u2019re in very high demand professions. So we don\u2019t think we\u2019ll have any trouble getting back into the workforce if that\u2019s what we decide to do.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>So Scott just said, oh you guys got employable degrees. That\u2019s a really important thing that I think a lot of people don\u2019t think about. My degree is in Fashion Design and that was really not the smartest choice for me, although I did just get a note from somebody who said oh, my Fashion Design degree was the best thing I ever did. I\u2019m really glad it worked out for her. And I hope she continues with it and continues to see success. It was a bad choice for me and I didn\u2019t see any success with it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And it\u2019s not that employable. It\u2019s not like I was at a bad place It was just not the right thing for me. And you know, everything happens for a reason. I now have this job which is amazing and I would never want to quit. But I\u2019ve been in that position where every day is like ugh, I can\u2019t believe I have to go to work again. So I hear you and FI wasn\u2019t a thing back then because we didn\u2019t have the internet then. So I didn\u2019t discover this and I just kept plotting along in this horrible job, thinking only 40 more years. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So what\u2019s your favorite thing that you\u2019ve seen so far? On the road, on your trip.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>I don\u2019t know, so many parks. Like, the Grand Canyon was amazing. I had never been there. So that was just a huge, fun week for us. Just all the parks. I don\u2019t know. Arches was awesome. Zion. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Yeah, we\u2019ve been to like a dozen national parks at this point and they\u2019re all amazing in their own ways. One of my favorites was definitely the Carlsbad Caverns. I\u2019ve never been in a cave anywhere near that size and to be in a cave to like you go into a room and it\u2019s like bigger than a football stadium. There\u2019s more rooms off of that all underground. It\u2019s just very cool.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>I went there as a kid. I don\u2019t remember much about it except don\u2019t the bats come out at night? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>We did see some bats, yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>An exodus of bats?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>They swarm out in the morning and swarm back in in the afternoon. Or vice versa. I think I had that reversed. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>I think they swarm out at night. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>There are definitely bats.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>So you guys are going to go\u2014you built a stockpile and you\u2019re taking a gap year. You\u2019re going to go right back to work whenever you feel like it. At some point in the next year or so. And then you\u2019re going to finish out the journey to financial independence, maybe taking more gap years in between, basically at your \u201cleisurely pace\u201d as you wanted over the next couple of years, right? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">You\u2019re just, oh we\u2019ll achieve it if we ever want to buckle down and do it but basically we\u2019re super happy right now and we have just a ton of great options. I mean, what a fantastic situation. Let\u2019s switch this over to another topic of expertise that you\u2019ve got. Unless you have anything to add in that category. And talk about your travel hacking. Because you guys are big travel hackers, right?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Yeah. Let me just touch on one thing before we move on. Like you said, it\u2019s all very open-ended at this point. Because we\u2019ve built up this amount of money that\u2019s invested, like, it will compound over time. Regardless of what we do as long as we\u2019re not draining it all. So we have so much flexibility to where like if we want to go back to our full-time jobs and grind through FI in the next three to five years and just be set for life, we can totally do that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Or we can work part-time or remote or just any sort of non-traditional season job or whatever else. Like we could both work part-time, cover our expenses, and then just let our nest egg grow over the next 10 or 20 years and reach financial independence the slow way. Or still very fast, I guess, relative to the rest of the world. But like yeah, we don\u2019t have to really grind it out anymore now that we\u2019ve set ourselves up on this great foundation. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Wow, that\u2019s a really amazing quote. I\u2019m going to write that down.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I love it. Why doesn\u2019t everyone do this? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>That\u2019s fantastic. Okay. Now, let\u2019s talk about how you are paying for your travel. You just write checks all the time, right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>We just put it all on credit cards. It\u2019s very simple. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>That\u2019s the best way to do it. So I actually was told this by a friend once. He said, oh, I\u2019ll just do what I want. I\u2019ll put it on the credit card. I\u2019ll figure out how to pay for it later. I\u2019m like, oh, that\u2019s not me at all. So tell me how you handle this with just putting it on the credit card and you\u2019ll figure out how to pay for it later? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Yeah, pretty much. No, so about the same time we discovered financial independence three or four years ago, we also discovered this idea of travel hacking or turning credit cards. Basically, signing up for credit cards just to get the sign up bonus and then moving onto another credit card because there\u2019s dozens of credit cards out there to where they will give you a reward of $500 to $1000 either cash or just in various travel currencies that are cash equivalent in some way for signing up for the credit card and then spending $1000, $2000, or maybe $3000 in the first three months of having it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So it\u2019s not like you\u2019re giving them $3000. You\u2019re just doing your regular spending, paying it off every month, and then at the end of reaching this spending minimum, you get this huge signup bonus. So we discovered this back in 2014. We signed up for a couple of cards because I mean, when you first hear this, it\u2019s like way too good to be true, or like way too good to be true\u2014all my alarm bells are going off to like this can\u2019t be right. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So we started off slow. We got a credit card. We met the signup bonus. We got the magical airline miles. We actually booked a flight and then took the flight. And then we\u2019ve done everything front to back. We earned the miles. We signed up for the credit card, earned the miles, spent the miles, and everything worked. It just worked. So we decided as soon as we realized it was legit, we just scaled it up rapidly. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So in the past three or four years, we\u2019ve signed up for 70 different credit cards, all with a bonus, and then that has heavily subsidized our travel over the past several years, including our honeymoon. And then it\u2019s helping us a ton on this trip just paying for hotels. Because the majority of where we\u2019re staying during this road trip adventure is in hotels and then in between that, we mix in some camping and staying with family and friends. So that\u2019s been a huge subsidy to our lodging expenses on this trip. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>How much is this year going to cost you? What do you think? What\u2019s your estimate for total expenses? Are you leaving your house vacant or did you sell that or how\u2019s that working?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>So we rented out the townhouse. We got a property manager just because we didn\u2019t want to have to deal with it on the road. So he has been great and taken care of it for us. He found us tenants and they\u2019ve been living there for about a month and a half, two months, maybe?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Something like that, yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>So we\u2019re getting a little bit of income.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Yeah, we don\u2019t really make much profit off of it. But it does cover all of our expenses and we don\u2019t have to worry about it. And as the Seattle market keeps appreciating, so don\u2019t jinx that but\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>We\u2019ll let them pay our mortgage until the next year or so and then figure it out after that. But we\u2019ve also been tracking our expenses still, on the road, so we know how much we\u2019ve spent and if we extrapolate that out over a year, it\u2019s going to be under $50,000, which is way less than what we spend in Seattle.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Yeah, we\u2019re currently averaging about $3500 per month give or take and then I think this month, we\u2019ll actually get less as we kind of like get more rhythm and become a little more efficient with things, say with friends and all of that. It looks like the cost is somewhere between $35,000 and $45,000 or something like that, which is amazing considering the lowest we ever spent in Seattle was like $55,000 for a year. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So like living on the road is going to be cheaper than living in one place in Seattle. So far, so good. I mean, there\u2019s a lot of unknowns with our expenses as we keep going but we\u2019ve been on the road for three months. We have a pretty good feel for it and yeah, it\u2019s right around $40,000 or so, is what we\u2019re expecting the total year to cost us. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>That\u2019s awesome. I want to touch back on these 70 credit cards that you opened up. That\u2019s 7-0, not 17. It\u2019s 70 credit cards that you\u2019ve opened up.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Between the two of us, yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Between the two of you. So 35 and 35. How does that affect your credit score and do you need your credit score for anything since you\u2019ve already bought a house, you\u2019re on this path to FI, you\u2019re not really to accumulate a lot of things. I\u2019m assuming you don\u2019t have a car loan or if you do, you\u2019re not looking to get another one. Like how does that affect your credit score?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>I\u2019m glad you asked. Because that is the number question whenever I tell anybody that we signed up for a bunch of credit cards. Amazingly, I mean the short version is that no, it doesn\u2019t hurt your credit as long as you use the cards responsibly. So I mean, like having more accounts is actually better for your credit, so that\u2019s a plus. The one thing it does hurt is your average age of account, if you keep getting more. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But I mean, we can just tell you from experience like we started with credit scores in like the low 700s a few years ago. When we know our credit scores because I got a mortgage at that time. And then over the past four years, it\u2019s grown to the high 700s, even bumping to 800s every once in a while, depending on who you ask. But as long as you\u2019re using the cards responsibly, paying them off on time, every month, it\u2019s really not going to ding your credit at all. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">A lot of people don\u2019t believe that but there\u2019s at least one anecdote I can provide is that a couple of years into doing this, so after we both opened at least a dozen cards, probably closer to 20, we actually refinanced our house to both remove PMI and get a lower interest rate and we had no problem doing that despite having 20 credit cards in the past couple of years, or 20 new accounts in the past couple of years and having a few new accounts in the past month or two before we actually applied for the refinance. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And the lender basically just said, why did you sign up for these cards and we just said we signed up for travel rewards and that was the end of it. That was all they asked. And yeah, we got refinanced perfectly fine and no issues. We actually opened a HELOC just as kind of a backup, backup emergency fund before we started this trip and the same thing. We had opened a dozen or more cards in the last year and still had no problem opening this new line of credit. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>What I suspect is happening is when you open a new credit card, it usually is a one to two or point ding on your overall score.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Yeah, a very small ding on the hard inquiry and then as you get all those new payments and the new accounts, your score goes up over the next three months or so.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>And because you guys are young and still working on establishing credit, your age of credit history, your untimed payment percentage and all that stuff has just continued creeping up and so, that is just a completely negligible impact on your credit score. The tradeoff, obviously, is yes, there\u2019s a very small one-time impact if you open up a card. But that can get completely overwhelmed by the utilization rate of your cards, the number of your on-time payments and all that kind of stuff. I\u2019ve been doing this for a little bit and I\u2019ve seen my credit score continuing to climb even though I\u2019m opening those cards. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>That\u2019s a great way to describe it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>I would like to share a little story with everybody who\u2019s listening. A few months ago, maybe six months ago, I told Scott about this concept of travel hacking and recommended that he listen to the Choose FI podcast, Episode 9, I believe, where they spell it all out. They spent a whole episode on this. And Scott said, no, I\u2019ve got a cashback card that gives me 1%. I\u2019m pretty good. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I\u2019m like well okay, I\u2019ll just drop it, and then all of a sudden, Scott comes in one day and he said, I just listened to Choose FI, Episode 9, and it was amazing. And oh my goodness, I have been doing this all wrong and I can\u2019t wait to start this. And I\u2019m sorry, Scott, did you just earn a big travel reward recently? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I have the companion pass now and it\u2019s great. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>The Holy Grail. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I don\u2019t understand the economics behind this because I can see how like if someone opens up a card and they spend too much or they are late on their payments or whatever, that okay, I guess the credit card company can make some money off of it. But I spend close to like $3000 on this credit card, maybe just a little over $3000, got 60,000 Southwest points. Then I did the same thing on another card for 50,000. I have 110,000 miles, get the companion pass\u2014that\u2019s like, what, thousands and thousands of dollars in travel? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Oh, absolutely.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>It cost me $195 in terms of two one-time annual fees which I probably won\u2019t renew. How does that math work economically for the other guy?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>I thought the exact same thing as you when we first started doing this. I was like, this is illegal, right? This has got to be\u2014we\u2019re doing something wrong. We\u2019re going to get arrested. This is crazy. And he\u2019s like, no, there are so many people that are not paying off their cards on time and that\u2019s just where the credit card companies are getting their profit from. I mean, there\u2019s like such a minor amount of people doing what we\u2019re doing that it doesn\u2019t affect anything. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>One of the ways I like to describe it as is there\u2019s a bunch of banks out there offering this bet that you can take. They\u2019re going to bet you two free flights that you can\u2019t handle credit responsibly. And if you win the bet, then you get the flights. Or the hotels. Or whatever else. I mean, there are a dozen different banks offering this in a dozen different ways and if you can handle credit, if you can be responsible with it, then there\u2019s a lot of money and travel opportunities to be had.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>So true. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>This is crazy to me.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Yeah, there\u2019s a lot of people that can\u2019t handle their side of the bet.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Like you, I just didn\u2019t believe it at first for a while because it didn\u2019t make\u2014this is not a fundamental component of wealth building. This doesn\u2019t make any sense. This has got to be like a one-time little trick. I\u2019m not interested. But no, it seems like it\u2019s pretty scalable for now at least. Can you give our listeners maybe some tips on where to start if they\u2019re interested in travel rewards? We\u2019ve already recommended Choose FI, Episode 9, of the podcast. What are some of your tips?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>That\u2019s a great way to start for kind of an introduction. My advice is always, because I mean, if this idea is new to you or you haven\u2019t tried it, I\u2019m sure you don\u2019t believe it\u2019s true. Why would it? It doesn\u2019t make any sense. But there are also a lot of people that have done it and all I tell people is just start small. Just find one card with a signup bonus that you\u2019ll be able to use, sign up for it, get the bonus and then either use it or at least understand the process of how to use those points. And then you can decide whether or not, it\u2019s for you. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I mean, it\u2019s not for everybody. It does require some organization and staying on top of your cards and being able to cancel them after a year to avoid annual fees and stuff like that but yeah, just start small. Get one card like any other adult does, sign up for one credit card with a signup bonus, get the signup bonus and then once you understand the process, if you want to scale it up, go for it. There\u2019s a lot of room to scale it up. And if you don\u2019t, that\u2019s fine. You don\u2019t have to. It\u2019s not a requirement by any means but there\u2019s a lot of opportunity out there if you\u2019re organized and put the time in. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>I just want to add to this. Keep track of your dates. Your one year date. A lot of times, if you call it to cancel, the company will waive the renewal fee if you call them too late, but you really want to try and keep track of those dates and cancel beforehand. And keeping track of your cards is super important. I know you said that and we actually missed out on one of these huge bonuses because we opened up two cards at the same time. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">We were in the middle of a home remodel so getting the spend wasn\u2019t difficult. We just didn\u2019t keep track of it and we put too much on one card and not enough on the other, so we got the bonuses on the one card but we totally missed out on the bonuses for the other card for like $400 or something. So one thing we do is we only open up one card at a time now. So we\u2019ll open up the card, I\u2019ll put that in my wallet and that is my go-to card for gas and groceries and you know, kids\u2019 expenses and anything that I have to charge, goes on that one card. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And then once I figure out that I\u2019ve used my spend, then I\u2019ll go back to a plain old credit card that I use all the time, my Costco Visa or whatever. It has a lot of really great benefits. And one of the things that these cashback cards don\u2019t offer\u2014or I\u2019m sorry, not cashback cards, the rewards cards, they don\u2019t offer the cashback option and the credit card that I use all the time is like 5% off on gas or something and 3% on all your Costco purchases. I can\u2019t remember what all the numbers are. Don\u2019t take that as Gospel. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So that\u2019s a great everyday card. But when I\u2019m trying to spend $3000, I\u2019ve got two kids and a household. That\u2019s really easy. You just put it in your wallet and go. So yeah, definitely keep track of your cards and starting small is a really great piece of advice, too. I\u2019m kind of a jump-in with both feet kind of girl so I will\u2014oh, I can sign up for 27 credit cards. Well, I can\u2019t spend 27 times $3,000 in three months. I mean, I could. Do you have any tips for people who are maybe not sure, like they know they can pay it off, they just don\u2019t have that much to spend? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>There\u2019s a lot of ways to basically manufacture your spend. If you just Google \u201ccredit card manufactured spend\u201d you\u2019ll get a lot of ideas. Some of them are shadier than others, but one thing that we tell people that\u2019s very simple to do and very easy is that if you don\u2019t think you\u2019ll meet the spend on a card in three months, just buy a gift card to a place that you go to all the time. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Grocery store is most common. You can go buy a Kroger gift card or a Walmart gift card or a Target gift card, and then you\u2019ll basically frontload the spend on the credit card, get it done in time, and then you just use the gift card after that until it\u2019s empty. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And another thing you can do is prepare your utilities. So I mean, you\u2019re going to keep paying your utilities for a long time so you can just send them a payment for $300-$400 and then that\u2019ll just cover your next several months. But it all hits the credit card during that minimum spend period. So those are a couple of small tips. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Oh, I\u2019ve never heard of prepaying your utilities. That\u2019s awesome. I\u2019m so excited.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Well awesome, do you have anything else to add maybe about your story or about the credit cards before we move onto the <i>Famous Four<\/i>?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>I think that\u2019s it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Alrightly.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Awesome. Well these four questions are the same questions that we ask every guest. There\u2019s actually five of them but Scott doesn\u2019t know how to count. Actually I think Josh and Brandon don\u2019t know how to count on the original podcast. But these are our <i>Famous Four<\/i> questions. And the first one is, What is your favorite finance book?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>My favorite finance book is <i>Your Money or Your Life<\/i> because it just puts it into perspective that your hours are valuable, like the time you have left on this earth or the time you have in general is very valuable and it\u2019s important to look at how much time you\u2019re spending earning money versus what you\u2019re actually getting with that money, like how many hours you\u2019re putting towards each purchase you make. It was a very big concept that really stuck with me so that\u2019s definitely the one I would go with.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yeah, that\u2019s an awesome book.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Earlier, you had mentioned that you didn\u2019t make any mistakes. But did you make any mistakes and if you, what was your biggest money mistake that you\u2019ve made?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>There\u2019s no big ones. As we mentioned, when we first got to Seattle, we weren\u2019t maxing out our retirement accounts. We weren\u2019t optimally investing in index funds. But those aren\u2019t really mistakes. Those are just small optimizations. The only thing that could be considered a mistake is that as I mentioned, I work at Amazon and a lot of my compensation was in the form of Amazon stock. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And I did what the smart thing was, which was to sell it and buy index funds because it\u2019s important to diverse away from your employers. At least that was the general advice out there. Like you don\u2019t want your salary and for us, our housing, and all of our investments tied to the exact same company. So I sold them and bought index funds and I mean, if you go look at historical performance of Amazon over the last three or four years, that was a terrible mistake. With perfect hindsight. But I mean, I would totally do it again because I still think it is the smart choice for most people who are rewarded in their own companies stock. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I think that\u2019s very smart but the way you just described it and the way you\u2019re thinking about it is very smart because you\u2019re saying, I have my philosophy in wealth building and I stick to that philosophy and it\u2019s sound. It\u2019s well researched and I know I\u2019m doing the right thing. You got unlucky on this one. Like there\u2019s nothing wrong with that even though obviously there was an opportunity cost there for that particular company doing really well. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>With perfect hindsight, of course I would keep them but yeah, like you said, I stand by what we did and I still think it\u2019s the right financial move.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Well I will throw out one word\u2014Enron. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Yes. Exactly.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Mindy; There were a lot of Enron employees who got the Enron stocks and kept it and their spouses worked at Emory and everything wrapped up in Enron and all of a sudden, Enron is worth nothing so all their retirement plans are gone\u2014and this wasn\u2019t just one person, this was a significant chunk of Enron employees because the company culture there was just so pro-Enron. It\u2019s great to sit there now when amazing is up like a thousand percent or 12,000 percentage or whatever. But it could have just as easily gone the other way. So yeah, absolutely smart.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Listeners, if you\u2019re interested in learning more about Enron, there\u2019s a really good documentary called <i>Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room<\/i>, which I think was on Netflix previously but it was not on Netflix anymore.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>I think I watched it on Amazon Prime. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Oh, there it is. Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>That was a couple years ago though.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Throwing out the plugs. When did that go down? Early 2000s? I remember listening to that on the news and just thinking, I\u2019m so sad for all these people, people who were a year away from retirement are now 50 years away from retirement.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>And unemployed.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>And unemployed. And same with their small. It was really devastating for a lot of people. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>It\u2019d be a good story to know.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>It\u2019s a good story to know, and yeah, not every company turns out as amazing as Amazon. Jeff\u2019s a pretty smart guys though. What is your best piece of advice for people who are just starting out?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>I would say just track your expenses. Figure out exactly where your money is going and what you\u2019re spending on, not many people realize I spent like $5 a day on coffee or this much on alcohol or something like that and they kind of realize where it\u2019s all going and then they can figure out what to do from there. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Yeah, just to add to that, it\u2019s amazing how many people just don\u2019t know where their money is going. The best way to do it, especially if you\u2019re just starting out is just track without any judgment. Like just write it all down. Don\u2019t think at all about whether it was good or better or whatever else. Just track it and then after maybe about a month or two or three months, go back and look at it and see, does this spending match my values? Is this where I want my money to be going now and in the future? And then adjust accordingly.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yeah, that\u2019s great. Track without judgment. I love that. Okay, Scott?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I could not\u2014that\u2019s exactly what I would do with my<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>spending, by the way. I don\u2019t keep a budget but I just review it and I\u2019m like, you kknow what? Last month I spent way too much money on beer. That\u2019s not my values. And wings. But that\u2019s not value so yeah. I can change that. I think that\u2019s exactly right and I don\u2019t keep a budget. I react if I\u2019m getting out of hand and you want a category that is not reflective of my values.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>We\u2019re the same way. It\u2019s totally just reactive. We\u2019ve never actually said like, this is how much we\u2019re going to spend at restaurants every month. We know about what it will be but then we just try to keep it in with\u2014just spend consciously, like as we go without having a specific number in mind.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Love it. All right, what\u2019s your favorite joke to tell at parties?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Would you like to go first?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>You can go first.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>We both have one, yeah. You\u2019re going to love them. Okay. So why did the old lady fall in a well?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I don\u2019t know. Why?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>She didn\u2019t see that well.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Ahh.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>You didn\u2019t love that, Scott? That\u2019s such a joke for you.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I mean, I\u2019m just coming up with my jokes retoir. That just pains me.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>I will say that I am continually impressed with just how Scott thumbs up with these really awful retorts. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I really do that really well, don\u2019t I?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Oh god, I quit.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>There it is.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>Why did the hipster burn his month? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I don\u2019t know, why?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>He ate his dinner before it was cool.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>I like that one. All right, we had two jokes today.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Two jokes.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>Mindy, I was the exact same way. I was laughing for like five minutes after I heard that and I can\u2019t stop laughing and it\u2019s so funny.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>I rarely, rarely, rarely laugh at these jokes. See my response to Noah\u2019s joke. Sorry, Noah. Okay, Becky and Noah, where can people find out more about you?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>So the easiest way is just on the blog. So I write a blog at MoneyMetagame. It\u2019s just kind of tracking our financial journey and adding in various travel hacking credit card tips here and there and all sorts of fun stuff. So you can find me there. MoneyMetagame.com. And then I\u2019m also on Twitter @moneymetagame, all one word. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And then ever since we started this trip, so for the past few months, we\u2019ve been posting awesome pictures of all the amazing national parks and everywhere else we\u2019ve been to Instagram. And that\u2019s also just @MoneyMetagame. So follow us wherever. I\u2019m almost always online in one form or another so feel free to reach out. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Awesome. Well thank you so much for your time today. I know you\u2019re busy doing nothing for the next year. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>It\u2019s effortless.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>I really appreciate you earmarking some time for us. And thank you for sharing your travel hacking. I learned a new travel hacking tip. I\u2019m super excited. Now, I\u2019m going to go sign up for another credit card. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Becky: <\/b>Thanks for having us, it\u2019s been fun.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Noah: <\/b>Yeah, it\u2019s been great. Thanks.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>All right, that was Becky and Noah from MoneyMetagame.com. Mindy, what\u2019d you think?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Oh my goodness, I love talking to Becky and Noah. Their story is fantastic. They are so smart. They are so forward-thinking and they\u2019re just such nice people. And I wish I would have had the foresight back when I was 27 to save up a huge ton of money. I was not making the kind of salaries that they are making at age 27. I wasn\u2019t married. I didn\u2019t have any kids. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And I had a very different life than they did and I\u2019m excited for them and their gap year sounds super fun, especially the whole part about not making any plans. I\u2019m kind of jealous about that. I\u2019m still trying to convince Carl to stop planning every minute of our vacations. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Yeah, I\u2019m jealous. I would love to do something like that within the next couple of years. Maybe I will. Again, that\u2019s the \u2018why\u2019. It\u2019s having the option and the ability to do that. Good for them for giving themselves every advantage on this journey and taking advantage of opportunities that they could put themselves in this position.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>Yeah. That is amazing. That is absolutely perfect. Today, Scott, before we get out of here, since this episode is running a bit long today, I would like to throw in a couple of requests to our listeners. If you\u2019re listening and you\u2019re enjoying the show, please subscribe to the podcast on whatever podcast player you choose to listen to. You can subscribe on iTunes. We are on pretty much everything, SoundCloud, Stitcher, Podcast Addict. Every place you can find a podcast, you will find us. And we have very few Twitter followers for the BiggerPockets Money podcast Twitter handle. So if you would please throw out a follow on Twitter\u2014it\u2019s @BPMoneyShow on Twitter. We are at BiggerPockets Money on Instagram. I am @Mindy@BP on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. And Scott, can you share your social media handles?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Mine is @ScottTrenchatBP. However, I am not particularly active on Twitter. So follow me if you\u2019d like. You\u2019re going to see my last post from 20 Dec. 2017. So there might be a new one coming and you\u2019ll get qualified so you don\u2019t have to follow me. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>All right Scott, shall we get out of here today?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Scott: <\/b>Let\u2019s get out of here. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Mindy: <\/b>For Episode 23 of the BiggerPockets Money Show, this is Mindy Jensen, over and out. <\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<h2>Watch the Podcast Here<\/h2>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"A Mini-Retirement Road Trip in Your 20s with Becky &amp; Noah | BiggerPockets Money Podcast 23\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/mVCXM7mlu08?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h2>Help Us Out!<\/h2>\n<p>Help us reach new listeners on <a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/biggerpockets-money-podcast\/id1330225136\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">iTunes<\/a> by leaving us a rating and review! It takes just 30 seconds.\u00a0Thanks! We really appreciate it!<\/p>\n<h2>Podcast Sponsor<\/h2>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-medium wp-image-74647\" src=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/08\/freshlogo-300x225.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"225\" title=\"\">The all-new <strong>FreshBooks<\/strong> is accounting software that makes running your small business easy, fast and secure. Spend less time on accounting and more time doing the work you love.<\/p>\n<p>For a 30-day unrestricted trial, go to <a href=\"http:\/\/freshbooks.com\/bpmoney\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">FreshBooks.com\/bpmoney<\/a><\/p>\n<h2>In This Episode We Cover:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>How <strong>Noah and Becky met<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>What happened when they <strong>first discover FI<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>Buying a house <strong>by accident<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>What <strong>changes they have made<\/strong> after learning about FI<\/li>\n<li>How much they are\u00a0<strong>saving<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>Making no mistakes with their <strong>FI decisions<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>Having <strong>&#8220;Gap Years or Mini Retirements&#8221;<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>Their thoughts about <strong>employment and unemployment<\/strong><\/li>\n<li><strong>Travel hacking<\/strong> and credit cards as bonuses<\/li>\n<li>What their <strong>credit score<\/strong> looks like<\/li>\n<li><strong>Travel rewards<\/strong>, and making the most of them<\/li>\n<li>What is <strong>&#8220;Manufacture Spend&#8221;<\/strong>?<\/li>\n<li><strong>And SO much more!<\/strong><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Links from the Show<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/forums\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Forums<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Email Scott: scott@biggerpockets.com<\/li>\n<li>Email Mindy: mindy@biggerpockets.com<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.reddit.com\/r\/financialindependence\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Financial Independence SubReddit<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"\/renewsblog\/biggerpockets-money-podcast-20-the-simple-path-to-wealth-index-funds-explained-with-jl-collins\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Money Podcast 20: The Simple Path to Wealth\u2014Index Funds Explained with JL Collins<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"\/renewsblog\/biggerpockets-money-podcast-21-how-losing-260-pounds-spurred-success-with-tony-garden\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Money Podcast 21: How Losing 265 Pounds Spurred Job &amp; Investing Success with Tony Gayden<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.choosefi.com\/009-travel-rewards-travel-world-free-ultimate-guide\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Choose FI | Travel Rewards: How To Travel The World For Free (The Easy Way)<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.imdb.com\/title\/tt1016268\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Enron: The Smartest Guy in the Room<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/@bpmoneyshow\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Money Twitter Profile<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/biggerpocketsmoney\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Money Instagram Profile<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/strenchbp\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Scott&#8217;s Twitter Profile<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/mindyatbp\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Mindy&#8217;s Twitter Profile<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Books Mentioned in this Show<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/2J3Lgj8\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>Your Money or Your Life<\/em><\/a> by\u00a0Vicki Robin, Joe Dominguez, Mr. Money Mustache<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Tweetable Topics:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>&#8220;We don&#8217;t have to really grind it out anymore, now that we&#8217;ve set ourselves up on this amazing foundation.&#8221; <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22We%20don&#039;t%20have%20to%20really%20grind%20it%20out%20anymore,%20now%20that%20we&#039;ve%20set%20ourselves%20up%20on%20this%20amazing%20foundation.%22%20BP%20Money%20Podcast%2023%20biggerpockets.com\/moneyshow23%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">(Tweet This!)<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Connect with Noah and Becky<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/moneymetagame.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Noah and Becky&#8217;s Blog<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/moneymetagame\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Noah and Becky&#8217;s Twitter Profile<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Becky and Noah are in the first half of their gap gear, a pre-FI road trip around America. They didn\u2019t grow up rich, but they carefully planned out their life [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":353007,"featured_media":99647,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[6473],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-99614","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-biggerpocketsmoney"],"acf":[],"comment_count":0,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/99614","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/353007"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=99614"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/99614\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/99647"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=99614"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=99614"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=99614"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}