{"id":99704,"date":"2018-06-07T07:02:55","date_gmt":"2018-06-07T13:02:55","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/renewsblog\/?p=99704"},"modified":"2023-02-09T19:56:27","modified_gmt":"2023-02-10T02:56:27","slug":"biggerpockets-podcast-282-create-perfect-partnership-tim-jay","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/biggerpockets-podcast-282-create-perfect-partnership-tim-jay","title":{"rendered":"How to Create the Perfect Partnership with Tim and Jay"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">When does one plus one equal WAY more than two? Real estate partnerships! On this episode of The BiggerPockets Podcast, we sit down with two real estate investors (<strong>Jay Helms<\/strong> and <strong>Tim Kelly<\/strong>) who were attempting to build their business alone, but found they could do far more together. In this fun and fast-paced interview, you\u2019ll learn what makes their partnership so successful, as well as how the team analyzes a market (including several can\u2019t-miss online research websites), and how they took down a 42-unit apartment complex using some pretty fantastic creative financing. Whether you plan to build your empire alone or alongside a partner, this episode is sure to give you a variety of tips and strategies to help your business take off.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/biggerpockets-podcast-real\/id594419649\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Click here<\/a>\u00a0to listen on iTunes.<\/p>\n<h2>Listen to the Podcast Here<\/h2>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"200\" scrolling=\"no\" src=\"https:\/\/playlist.megaphone.fm\/?e=BIGPOC1459935800\" width=\"100%\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h2>Read the Transcript Here<\/h2>\n<div style=\"overflow-y: scroll; max-height: 400px; background: #eee; padding: 20px; border: 1px solid #ddd;\">\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>This is the BiggerPockets podcast Show 282.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>\u201cSo, know for sure you\u2019ve got to be patient with yourself because you have to give people reasons to want to partner with you. And how do you do that? You do that by knowing what you\u2019re talking about, being able to speak the language\u201d.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>You\u2019re listening to BiggerPockets Radio. Simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you\u2019re here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you\u2019re in the right place. <\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>Stay tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online. <\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>What is going on, everyone? This is Brandon Turner, today\u2019s host of the BiggerPockets podcast, here with my co-host, Mr. David Greene. How are you doing, David Greene?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Other than melting in this 100-degree California heat, I\u2019m doing pretty good. How\u2019s it over there?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Definitely not 100 degrees. All right, so I\u2019m going to start off today\u2019s show asking you a question I don\u2019t usually ask you. I already said what\u2019s up, how are you doing, but what are you learning? What are you\u2014before we get to the interview, what are you learning lately, David Greene? What\u2019s been on your mind?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>I was not expecting you to go that deep this early in the podcast. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>We\u2019re going deep. What\u2019s been changing in your life? Go.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>So lately, I\u2019ve been realizing I tend to take on new challenges, learn them, and then get stuck there. So I\u2019m going through a phase right now where I became a real estate agent. My first year, I became the top-selling agent in my office. It was great. I got off to a great start. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I got really good at being a real estate agent and then I just got stuck in playing that role all the time when what I really wanted to be was a business owner. I wanted to develop a business, learn how to be an agent, hire agents, teach them how to do it, and have more David Greenes running around that can help investors buying properties.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Oh, please no. Anyway. I agree.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>More David Greenes. What ended up happening is I lost my confidence because people like Brandon didn\u2019t believe in me and said mean things when I was recording the podcast and I just got stuck in the same place. So, what I\u2019m realizing is every time I get comfortable, I need to start asking myself what\u2019s the next step? How do I push forward? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">You want to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. And I\u2019m not and it causes me to not take the steps forward that I need so I just spent pretty much all day long thinking about this and realizing I need to start hiring people, finding talent, giving them new positions within my company and teaching them how to do what I\u2019m doing so they can do it and we can help more people in route to being the top-selling real estate team in the Bay Area. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So it\u2019s kind of heavy as it sits on you and you think about all the fear and uncertainty and what if it goes wrong? And just like everybody else, I have all these doubts that go through my head. And I have to remind myself, well we say all the time on the podcast, well you\u2019ve got to think about what could go right. What would I be missing out on if I don\u2019t do this and I don\u2019t expand exponentially? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I don\u2019t teach more people and I can\u2019t help more people and bad real estate agents end up getting more business. So that\u2019s kind of what\u2019s been going on with me and you asked for the truth so you got it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>That was deep for an off the cuff me throwing that at you. All right, well I guess if you\u2019re in the Bay Area, you should hang out with David and be part of his team. Look at that, I even gave you a plug. All right. You like that? You\u2019re not going to be the biggest real estate team in Bay Area, you\u2019re going to be the biggest real estate team in California. I don\u2019t know who\u2019s number one right now but we\u2019re coming for you.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>You heard it here first. Brandon Turner, writing checks that I now have to go cash. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>All right, well we\u2019ve got to get on with today\u2019s show. Today\u2019s show is really fantastic. We\u2019ve got a couple of guys who actually met through BiggerPockets, through a mutual connection through BP. They got together and they\u2019ve been crushing it in real estate so we talk a lot today about partnerships and how to put them together, how to make them work, how they\u2019re finding deals, how they\u2019re funding deals. Some really cool stuff there, you guys will like it. Single-family, multi-family, we cover it all. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But before we get there, let\u2019s get to today\u2019s <i>Quick Tip<\/i>. All right, today\u2019s <i>Quick Tip<\/i>, very simple. Because we\u2019re talking a lot about partnerships today, I want to encourage ya\u2019ll, I\u2019m not saying you have to go out and find a partner necessarily but I want to encourage ya\u2019ll to go find somebody on BiggerPockets in your local area. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">There\u2019s a lot of ways to do that but I recommend just typing your zip code at BiggerPockets.com\/Meet. Type in your zip code there. Find somebody local and try to connect with them. Whether it\u2019s send them a private message, go out and get a cup of coffee, whatever. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">You never know what will develop and in fact, it doesn\u2019t mean you\u2019re going to partner with that person, but they might know somebody that can maybe you\u2019ll work together some day, maybe you\u2019ll share contractor ideas or you know, the strategies. Whatever. Anyway, that is my not-so-<i>Quick Tip<\/i> today. You like it? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>I love that. I mean, that\u2019s basically how The Avengers became The Avengers, right? They found somebody who had a skill that was different than theirs and the joined forces and they took down their enemies that no one man alone can take down and that\u2019s kind of what today\u2019s guest did. They kind of took The Avenger approach.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>That\u2019s pretty much exactly what I was thinking. All right, let me ask you this, David. If you were an Avenger, who would you be of The Avengers? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Oh man, I want to say The Hulk but that\u2019s probably not true. I would want to say Iron Man but I\u2019m not that wealthy. I\u2019d probably be Captain America because I\u2019m kind of boring and a bit of a square and I like to lead all the other people. I\u2019m surprised though Brandon that you know who The Avengers are, because with a two-year-old, all you\u2019re really watching is like TV shows and Moana and Teletubbies, right? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Blippy. Hundreds of hours of Blippy on YouTube. If you guys don\u2019t know Blippy, YouTube him. All right, I would say Captain America, too. The whole cop thing, it fits. All right well, we\u2019re going to move on and we\u2019re going to get to today\u2019s show but the last thing before we do, this coming week over on BiggerPockets, <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I\u2019m going to be doing a live online class on how to run the numbers on a rental property, so if that interests you at all, if you want to see how I run my numbers, cash flow, cash and cash return, how I incorporate appreciation in there or how I don\u2019t because I do a little, a little bit I don\u2019t. Even talk about BRRRR investing a little bit.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">We\u2019re going to be talking about all of that live on a real-life webinar, which is an online class. Sign up at BiggerPockets.com\/webinar. Again, BiggerPockets.com\/webinar. And I\u2019ll see you guys there. Now, with that, let\u2019s get to our interview with Jay and Tim. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Alrighty, Jay and Tim, welcome to the BiggerPockets podcast. How are you guys doing? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>Outstanding.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Great. Thank you for having us.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, so I know you guys only via social media. I guess we\u2019re BFFs there maybe, so to speak. But I want to get to know you a little bit about your real estate investing journey. Now, my understanding is from our little notes here, is you guys were both getting involved in real estate independently before you kind of joined forces and took it on. Is that correct? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>That is correct.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>That is affirmative. Yes sir. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>All right, so why don\u2019t we go through each of your individual stories first and then we\u2019ll jump in it together. You guys want to do a little game to see who goes first? A little rocks, paper, scissors?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>Let\u2019s do it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>All right, one round. So it\u2019s not best of three. One round. And you guys have got to do it for the camera. Ready? You guys look at each other and do your little things here.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Who are you betting on, David? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Rock, papers, scissors, right? And then we shoot on shoot. Ready? Rock, papers, scissors, shoot.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Tied. Do it again.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Rock, papers, scissors, shoot. All right. I\u2019m first. I got paper. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>All right, tell us who you are and tell us your story.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>All right, hello everybody, my name is Timothy Kelly. I am currently active duty military. I\u2019m stationed in the Pensacola area. Got involved in real estate back in 2011 when I purchased my first single-family home with the intentions of living in it and flipping it, you know, over the course of a couple of years, adding value to it over time. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I was pretty successful with that and then throughout that two or three years, I\u2019m like, real estate is actually pretty neat. I started reading a lot more about personal finance and real estate so my curiosity grew. And then one of my partners, still one of my best friends today, Jordan Griggs if you\u2019re out there, love you, man\u2014we bought a couple small plots of land and that was pretty much it. That was when I was living in Virginia, the Virginia Beach area. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Then I moved to Pensacola, Florida, now where I\u2019m stationed. And a few months after I got here, I closed on a fourplex using a 203K loan that I learned all about on BiggerPockets with the intentions of house-hacking it. Long story short, now it\u2019s a rental. A very nicely cash flowing rental and just before we closed on that, pretty much me and Jay met through BiggerPockets, a broker linked us up together. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">We were both independently talking to him. His name is Kyle McGee on BiggerPockets. He then recognized that we both had similar goals and then he put Jay and I in touch and from that point, that\u2019s when me and Jay met. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>All right, so Tim, a couple of quick things. First of all, can you explain what that 203K loan is? Because we do talk about it a lot at BiggerPockets. It\u2019s not real well-known but I think it\u2019s one of the most powerful strategies, especially dealing with a fourplex, oh man. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">This is like my favorite show ever because this is like the best use, I think, for a 203K loan. So what is that? Can you kind of walk us through, what did you do and what does that mean for that deal? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Absolutely. So the 203K loan is an FHA-backed loan whereas you can purchase a property with your intentions of living in one of the units. And you could wrap in your rehab costs. When I first learned about this, I had to read it over a couple of times to think and to convince myself that it was real because I\u2019m like, is there a better way to first get involved in real estate than to leverage the power of a bank, not only paying for your property, but a bank paying for your rehab? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And I\u2019m like okay, I\u2019m going after this. Really quick numbers, it was a $150,000 property, fully rehabbed. It needed some tender, love, and care for sure. So then I put $100,000 worth of rehab into it so that the total loan was $250,000. 3.5% down is all I needed to come up with, with closing costs and everything. That was about $15,000 give or take, a couple thousand. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And with that, I had to only put that $15,000 down and I was able to get into a four-unit property that essentially included $100,000 worth of rehab. And now it\u2019s in a very hot, desirable market in Pensacola. It\u2019s been fully occupied ever since and it turns out that, we actually had the intentions of house-hacking it, living in one of the units and renting out the other three because the rehab went a little bit longer than we expected. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">It was supposed to go about 90 days. It lasted for about seven or eight months. We were settled in another place, so FHA guidelines, you have to have the intentions of moving in for six months in one day because we were asked that. We ended up just turning it into a rental. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And that was pretty much one of the last deals that I closed and it was pretty cool. So always try to convince people if they are unaware of house-hacking or unaware of the 203K loan, I love trying to get people into that, or at least learn about it and try to leverage the same thing I did. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>That\u2019s awesome. I love the 203K loan, yeah. Because a lot of deals, normally you would have had to come with, even if you had done FHA, you would have had to come with 3.5% of the $150,000 and then another $100,000 of cash, which is how most people do real estate deals. But this was like, the banks like combine both together and then just pay 3.5% of the total and they will fund the rehab. And it\u2019s like probably a 30-year fixed mortgage at like the lowest rates in human history. It\u2019s like stupid good. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Absolutely. Yeah. Super cool.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>All right so David, you want to add anything to that before we jump over? I\u2019m kind of hogging today\u2019s show.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Nope, I\u2019m good. Let\u2019s hear about Jay. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>So I got my start in 2006. Because we now know the height of the market was coming shortly after that. I like to refer that as to my false start. That was before BiggerPockets. That was before really knowing anything other than what was shown on HGTV, flipping houses. So I bought a 3\/2 1950s ranch style house with the idea of living in it and flipping it. That quickly turned into, we owned it, it ended up being eight years. So after a few years of being in there and flipping it or remodeling it, doing a lot of work myself, I met Cassie who is now my wife, and luckily, she became my designer as well because I was going to make some horrible decisions from the design of the property.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So we ended up getting the property\u2014our renovation included brand new windows all throughout. 1950s style so they were the metal frames, single-pane glass. Brand new kitchen. Renovated sunroom. Renovated bathrooms. Well, at that same time, we were starting at 2008, I got an opportunity to move to Pensacola for my job so we took it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">We initially wanted to sell it but the broker I had been working with told me, hey, hold onto it. If you don\u2019t have money to close when you sell it, just hold onto it. So we did. We turned it into a rental. And then at that point in time, I found BiggerPockets and I learned how to actually analyze a property for cash flow and I started figuring out, okay, it\u2019s costing me $300 a month to hold onto this property. And that\u2019s with the height of the market rents for that neighborhood. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So every February, I made a call to that broker saying hey, is it time to list? No, not yet. No, not yet. So back in 2015 or 2014, it was time to sell, right? So we walked away with some equity in that and I now had all the knowledge that BiggerPockets had to offer at that time. After selling it, we paid cash for our next one, which was what I consider our true start. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And it was a one bedroom, one bath. It was a foreclosure. We paid cash for it. We paid $23,000 cash for it. We put $9,000 into it. And it rented $600 a month for the time that it was ready. And we thought we\u2019d hold onto that property forever. And we just sold in February. I didn\u2019t have it listed for sale. I don\u2019t even know how the guy found me but he said hey, I\u2019ve been watching this house and I\u2019d really like to buy it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">He was a new investor and we came up with a price that I was happy with. We sold it. And we\u2019re now using that money to 1031 Exchange into a fourplex which we\u2019re supposed to close tomorrow, but I just got notice that\u2019s going to be postponed a little bit. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>That\u2019s unusual. What are you talking about?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Exactly. So cool.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>So that\u2019s how we got started.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>So can you tell us a little bit about this live-in flip that you had? You guys have mentioned two awesome ways for people to break into real estate. One of them was an FHA loan with the 203K aspect and then this live-in flip. Tell us how that looked, what you did, why that made it easier for you.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>Yeah. The biggest thing that helped me at the time I bought it is I was single, right? This was a 1950s style house, had not been touched since the \u201850s. I mean, it had some of the funnest wallpaper, some of the funnest looking tiled bathrooms, you know, and the double-oven stove is there. I mean, I think it was manufactured in the \u201850s. It was God awful ugly. So knowing that going into it, I knew I could put sweat equity into it. Nights and weekends was a great time for me to do that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But then my wife came along and it truly was a blessing. She moved in. We did the whole thing where we moved the kitchen into the living room, right? Our fridge is hooked up and we\u2019re eating microwaved meals if we\u2019re not eating out and she got in there with the best of them. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Demo day was absolutely fun, ripping things up. I had to say hey, let me do that part because I\u2019m afraid you\u2019re going to get hurt. I mean, she\u2019s 5\u20198\u201d, maybe 110 pounds and she\u2019s getting out there swinging a sledgehammer trying to knock stuff down. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So doing that and we\u2019re actually doing the same thing with this house that we\u2019re in right now, is when we first moved in here, we didn\u2019t have a kitchen. We had a fridge. We had some folding tables, utilities, sink. So I think part of that success is having the right partner is kind of where I\u2019m circling around back to that is having somebody who is willing to go through that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And it has tremendously gotten more difficult from the first time we did it, because we didn\u2019t have kids then. Now we\u2019ve got a three-year-old and a one-year-old. It\u2019s an adventure, right? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>So you guys were able to save on hard money costs. You\u2019re able to save on\u2014you didn\u2019t have to come up with the rehab money right away. You could kind of do some of this stuff yourself. You just were smart enough to make it easy for yourself to get that first one under your belt. You kind of probably took some lumps like we all do on our first deal. You got a little bit of confidence built up and then you\u2019re able to ramp up a little bit more. Am I hearing it right? Is that kind of what you guys did? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>Yeah, and I will say there is some value in contracting out, right? So that one-bedroom, one bath that I talked about earlier, we bought it. We closed on it when our son was three weeks old. And as you guys know when you have kids, there\u2019s a lot of things that just change. And you can\u2019t really prepare for them until the kid gets here and you kind of start adjusting. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So we went into that idea of hey, we\u2019re going to do all\u2014we\u2019ve done this before so I mean all we\u2019re doing is painting some walls, putting down some flooring. Everything we\u2019ve done before, we can do ourselves and save on that labor. Well, we closed on it in October and we didn\u2019t get it ready until February of the next year. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So afterwards, I did the math and I said, we missed out on I think it was six months or something like that, we missed out on almost $2,000 in mostly rent. And then I already had contractor bids and it was well below that for them to do the work themselves. So there\u2019s some value in knowing your limits and knowing your available time and what\u2019s going to make the most sense to produce the most cash for you. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>So you guys were both kind of doing your thing on your own and then you guys met through a mutual friend on BiggerPockets. Can you tell us how you guys knew when you were introduced to each other that you\u2019d make a good team or how this person knew that you guys would make a good team?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>Tim\u2019s Hawaiian shirt.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Yeah, it was the same thing I was wearing when we met. No. So like I mentioned before, a broker that was on BiggerPockets was individually talking to myself as well as Jay, individually. And we were all in the same area. And this broker, Kyle, knew that we had the same goals and he took it upon himself to set a dinner up with all three of us where we can come and meet each other and chat and see how much more we could accomplish together, with all three of us. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And from that point, Jay and I recognized, we had the same goals. We knew, initially, we both wanted to do medium and large-sized multi-family for buy and hold. So our goals were on track and they were very concise. And then Jay and I both knew that we were both just as committed. This wasn\u2019t just a hobby. We weren\u2019t just playing around in real estate. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">We actually wanted to do big things in real estate and we were actually committed to it. So that was easy to recognize that this is a business, not just a hobby. And then you know, at that point, six months later, we closed on an apartment complex together. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>So tell us about that. What apartment complex did you buy? What were the details behind it?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Yeah, so it\u2019s a 42-unit apartment complex in Mobile County, Alabama. It was a purchase price of $700,000 and we wrapped a $200,000 renovation budget in there. It was built in 1980 and the previous owner, or the current owner that we bought it from, had it for about ten years and he was an elderly man who was trying to do a lot of things himself. And when I say elderly, he\u2019s in his mid-70s. Living at the property during the week. Self-managing. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So you know, the property, I think, was just as tired as he was in trying to keep it up. So it was a great opportunity for us to take it on. We\u2019re scheduled to be done with renovations next week as long as everything goes as planned and that included\u2014help me out here. We painted the exterior, right? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>Repaved the parking lots.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Repaved the parking lot, restructured the parking lot. We had some fencing we had to repair. We updated the playground equipment.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>We completely renamed the whole entire community from Timber Trace to Citronel Square. Just new, updated, fresh signs.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Part of that, part of the renaming was, the Timber Trace name did not have a very good reputation for the community. We wanted to make sure new ownership was involved and that we were trying to turn things around. And then we also renovated 12 units. And there are some varying\u2014depending on how poor shape the units were in, most of them got new flooring, new paint, painted kitchen cabinets were brand new kitchen cabinets. New bathrooms, light fixtures, new outlet switches, the whole nine.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Nice. Did you say how you found the deal? Did I miss that? Okay, how did you find it?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>So the broker that we had met on that first dinner that we had, the broker wasn\u2019t particularly as seasoned. He wasn\u2019t at the point where he was working on his CCIM for those who understand commercial brokerage. He put us in touch with a lot more of a seasoned individual who had a CCIM and he just had a lot more experience in the commercial world and multi-family world. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And quickly after that, we were introduced to him. And then Jay and I built a relationship with him. We were very clear and concise in what we were looking for. And we told him exactly what we wanted. He knew we weren\u2019t just messing around. He knew we were serious and that was essentially one of his pocket listings. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>I love that you say clear and concise. I think you said that phrase earlier, too, and I made a note to talk about it because like so many people have these goals or your plan or what you\u2019re looking for in a property or a partner or whatever. And it\u2019s like, I want this and this and I think this would be cool but maybe this would be good and like, I love clear and concise goals or clear and concise objectives, right? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So you\u2019re like, this is what we\u2019re looking for. A small to medium-sized apartment complex in this type of thing. Very easy to understand and very easy for people to get behind. Because I would encourage everyone listening right now, figure out what you want and find a way to make that more clear and concise so that other people\u2014if you spend more than ten seconds explaining to somebody what you want, it\u2019s probably too complicated for you to focus in, right? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>It does take some time to figure out what you want. And if you can figure out why you want to invest in real estate, that whole investing criteria is going to get much more clear. And David, as we were talking last week about one of the most frustrating things I have when I get on the forums is somebody will put, is this a good deal? And they\u2019ll put these very minimum details about the deal and usually my answer is, is this is a good deal for you? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Why do you want to buy it? What is driving your interest in this at all? And you\u2019ve got to figure out your why. Once you figure out your why, then you\u2019re going to be able to set goals to help work that why. Once you figure out your goals, you can establish investing criteria and then you\u2019re just, as Tim was saying, clear and concise. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, I love that. I also want to point out\u2014people will say, I don\u2019t know exactly what I want, right? So I don\u2019t know if I want a middle-sized apartment complex or if I want to maybe flip houses. Part of me wants to tell people it doesn\u2019t really matter too much. It all works. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">You could find examples of somebody getting wealthy in pretty much every type of real estate in the world. It\u2019s more important to pick something than to pick the right thing, I think. Honestly, you should pick something that works in your market and your abilities, but it\u2019s again one of those things where you spend your entire life just going, I\u2019m not exactly sure what I want. Give yourself a deadline. Put it on the calendar. On this date, three weeks from today, I will have a decision on what I\u2019m doing. And then do it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So I want to shift a little bit and talk about how you were able to pull that off. $700,000 purchase and then you said $200,000 write-in repairs? That\u2019s a lot of money to come out of pocket with, so I\u2019m assuming you had some kind of financing or some kind of arrangement or something.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>Tim\u2019s couch cushions. He\u2019s been saving for years.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Nice. I\u2019m going to come to your house. Anyways, okay, how did you pull it off?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>So we essentially\u2014that was presented to us because Jay and I slowly became known as a couple of individuals in this market who were serious about our goals and pursuing it. We did the due diligence necessary. We did the research. We would go to the REIA meetings and ensure that everybody knew what we were doing and what we were looking for. And thereby knew how serious we were.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And so we had a couple other money partners who we actually brought in. Now, this new broker that showed us this pocket listing that we ended up closing, this broker had worked previously with these two other individuals that we were already talking about, perhaps partnering with on this deal anyway. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So now we have, Jay and I, and then the other two partners who essentially brought the money in who had experience in multi-family, who had experience in commercial and who had a better reputation than we did because we had closed the number of deals in the past. So between the four of us, we kind of came together. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Jay and I brought the deal. We did the due diligence. And then the other two partners kind of brought the money in. And they brought a little bit of expertise to oversee everything to make sure that we fill all the gaps before closing. That we can get to the closing table. Long story short, that\u2019s it in a nutshell.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Nice, so did you guys have to bring money yourselves in or did you do it, like how did that work out? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>We did. We had the option to not because you know, of the other efforts of raising money. But we felt, or at least I did, I felt hey this is my first deal\u2014and I\u2019ve had the question posed to me before is how much are you investing? And you know, in previous ones, I\u2019ve said none. That quickly turned investors off. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And to circle that, I\u2019ve kind of went back around and followed up with those guys and said, would it make a difference if I were signing on the note for the loan? You\u2019re not liable but I am even though I\u2019m not putting money on the table, I am liable for that $900,000. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">They said absolutely. That\u2019s you contributing more than just putting the deal together. So that helped with the conversation. That didn\u2019t happen in particular with this deal but it\u2019s happened for others.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Long story short, I don\u2019t think we needed to invest but it was such a good deal that Jay and I both ended up investing. But he brings up such a good point. When you\u2019re syndicating a deal, if your investors who are passive, all they want to know is they want to know about the deal, but they want to trust the people who are their asset managers before anything else. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">If it\u2019s a question that they are not particularly investing as asset managers, they\u2019re like, why would I invest if the asset manager who know the deal better than anybody else are not investing? So especially for your first syndication, we felt like we should invest and plus, we wanted to. It\u2019s such a killer deal anyway.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, that\u2019s cool. So let me talk about this idea. I love the idea of bringing in partners to bring in money, or the majority of the money, to be able to pull in these larger deals. A lot of people would rather have the entire thing. Of course, we\u2019d rather have 100%, right? But what\u2019s the phrase we always say on BiggerPockets? 100% of a great deal is better than 50%&#8211;or no. 50% of a great deal is better than no deal, right? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But I want to talk about the actual partners that you brought in a little bit. Did you find them first or did you find the deal first? And then the second half of that question, how do you recommend other people doing it? Like if you were to give advice to somebody else, should they find the money partner first and then go get the deal or vice versa? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>So the way it happened was one we were in REIA, the first month I got here, I went to that REIA meeting and it was in the process of growing. The Real Estate Investment Association meeting, and for all the listeners, I can go on for hours talking about the power of going to your local real estate Meetups. If there\u2019s not one, create one on Meetup and establish it and go. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So I essentially went to the REIA, and the first meeting, I let everybody know exactly what I was doing. I\u2019m looking for multi-family, B and C class, value add opportunities, blah blah blah, and I went straight to the president of the REIA afterwards and said hey, Matt, I\u2019m Tim Kelly, this is what I\u2019m looking for. He directed me straight to those other two money partners who couldn\u2019t make that meeting. But he\u2019s like, these are the two guys that you need to link up with because they are known as the commercial multi-family apartment guys. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">That next week, I set a meeting up with one of them because those two individuals are both also active duty military so we all have kind of strict schedules and I had a meeting up with him. I showed him the deal that we were looking at, and he immediately knew that it was a solid deal. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And he didn\u2019t come on and say it and be like, I want to be a part of this, and then the next month, me and Jay presented it to them and say hey, we\u2019re trying to syndicate. Would you guys be a part of this and help us get to the closing table? And that\u2019s how it happened. Is there anything else you want to add? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>So another point to it is if you don\u2019t know who to talk to and you\u2019re very an introvert, like myself, right? You don\u2019t like to get in front of crowds like Tim does, one of the things\u2014and we\u2019ve heard several versions of this but I heard this version on a different podcast recently. It\u2019s about start talking to your friends and family. Say hey, I want to start investing in real estate, who should I talk to? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Well, take it one step further and this is the part I heard on a different podcast was, if you were to get fired today, who are the 10 to 15 people you would call to say okay, what should my next step be? And those are the 10 to 15 people you need to call and say hey, I want to start investing in real estate. Who should I be talking to? Because those are going to be the people who are going to give you the best advice. They\u2019re much more well-connected.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, that\u2019s so good. One of the things you brought up, and I\u2019ve never heard anybody say this strategy before, and I don\u2019t think you meant to do it on purpose, I don\u2019t think, but it\u2019s still really, really awesome. You brought the deal to the guy, it sounds like, to almost ask advice, right? You weren\u2019t even pitching the deal to him at first. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">You were asking advice. Letting him know about the deal, getting him excited along with you, and then later, and I\u2019m not saying you\u2019re doing this on purpose, but it\u2019s such a cool strategy, right? Later you go back and say hey, are you interested? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Because now they\u2019ve had time to think about it, they\u2019ve had time to look at the deal a little bit. They know who you are. They trust you that you were asking advice and now you can raise money. I am totally going to steal that move.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>For everybody listening, I\u2019m telling you, especially if you\u2019ve done a little bit of real estate yourself and you know you want to go after the medium or large-sized multi-family deals and you don\u2019t have that cash on hand or you don\u2019t have the reputation where you can raise a couple million for a deal, bring it to the people that you know who can. I\u2019m telling you. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Because once you get this first deal done, there\u2019s been exponential growth with both Jay and I where now people know, we closed on an apartment complex and it\u2019s almost like, without even realizing it, you\u2019re a magnet to money, to people who want your advice, to people who know you have the capacity to close deals. You get even more deals coming through. You get more money coming through simply because you knew how to get that first deal close. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">It wasn\u2019t a massive sized apartment complex, not for our first deal, but it\u2019s amazing that if you bring those partners in\u2014and not only that, their expertise, we essentially called them the Board of Advisors for this deal because they didn\u2019t really make any decisions unless me and Jay were faced with a situation where we needed to consult them and say hey, we\u2019re looking at this property management company. Before we sign up with them, we want your input on that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Because that\u2019s a major decision when you\u2019re figuring out who\u2019s going to manage your property. Another thing, again, for all the listeners, partner with people who have the capacity to close. Don\u2019t try to tackle stuff. You can, by all means, do it. But that is one of the easiest ways to get into larger scale deals, is to bring partners in who have already done it.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>Yeah, just to add to that. The only thing I would critique on the way that we did it is we waited until after our deal packaged together on our first deal, and then we started presenting it to investors. The way I\u2019d do it now is I\u2019d go to sit down and have lunch with somebody I know who is interested. I\u2019ll take a sample deal package with me and say look, at some point in time, I\u2019m going to bring you something like this. Let\u2019s talk through it. I want you to get comfortable with it and make sure you understand it and tell me what you don\u2019t like about it and what you\u2019re going to have to see to be a partner on the next deal I\u2019ll bring you. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>That\u2019s really smart.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>I love that. I think my buddy, Michael Blanc, who has a podcast and a blog, he\u2019s a writer and he\u2019s been on the podcast a few times here\u2014he talks a lot about that. I had never heard of that before and he told me about that. Put together a sample deal. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>That might be where I got it from. His sample deal package is essentially all we used and we were able to transition that and make that reflect our deal, and that\u2019s essentially the same one we used for all of our deals from this point.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>So smart. Yeah. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>You guys bring up a really good point of there\u2019s a lot of things that need to be done, raising the money, there\u2019s preparing people for when you\u2019re going to be raising the money. There\u2019s rehab, there\u2019s finding the deal, there\u2019s finding people that can vouch for you so that you can close the deal. Can you tell us a little bit about how you guys split up the duties that go into taking on something like this?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>Part of it is we\u2019re still figuring that out. Our first big deal together, there\u2019s a lot of moving parts, especially the rehab piece. And I think, David, you and I talked about how our personalities are different. Tim and I\u2019s personalities are different. I think what\u2019s happened naturally is our personalities have just kind of shifted and taken on roles. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">We really haven\u2019t talked about it too much but it\u2019s so much like okay, David, you know you\u2019re good at this. You\u2019re focused on the details. You\u2019re going to scrutinize everything. You\u2019re probably going to make a couple of contractors angry. You do this. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And then Tim, big picture guy. Always positive attitude. Nothing can go wrong. He\u2019s going out and doing this, right? So that\u2019s kind of how it\u2019s evolved. But again, it took that first deal for us together to figure that out. And the next one that comes along is just going to be easier. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>And the way I\u2019ve learned is Jay is the left brain. He\u2019s the analytical. Sometimes he overthinks. Sometimes he\u2019s the perfect epitomy of the analysis paralysis. I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve ever had analysis paralysis because I\u2019m the right brain.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>You could have stopped at perfect. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>My bad. But yeah, I\u2019m the right brain that, I kind of have that 10,000 vote view, I can see the big picture and I can paint that vision. I\u2019m more charismatic with people. I can easily strike up a conversation with pretty much anybody. I\u2019m the guy that every single REIA meeting, I get up in front of everybody. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Some people have seen it over and over and over every month. And I tell people who we are, what we do, exactly what we\u2019re looking for, and then five minutes later, you\u2019re surrounded by people who either have something for you or could get you in touch with somebody who can provide that for you. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And again, I\u2019m the right brain guy and it\u2019s like almost the perfect partnership and that\u2019s where we always try to tell people, when we\u2019re looking for partners, one\u2014I highly recommend one is the analytical, data-driven left brain, and the other one is the more visionary, the right brain, more charismatic, pretty much could converse with anybody and can talk about real estate with anybody.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, that\u2019s awesome. I want to point out a couple of quick things here. We talked about it briefly earlier about how you guys would go to these local events and I always suggest, if you don\u2019t have an event, start an event. I wanted to point out the URL for that at BiggerPockets. It\u2019s BiggerPockets.com\/events. You can go there. You can see all the events in your area and if you want to start one, go ahead and do that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">One other thing I\u2019ll point out, too, though is one of the powerful things at an event, if you\u2019re hosting an event or you\u2019re at an event, and it sounds like you guys have this at yours, where people just stand up in front of the group and say who you are and what you\u2019re looking for. I know some of the clubs around here call it, what is it, like the \u201cHaves and Wants\u201d section or something like that. What do they have and what do they want, right? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I want to point out, take part in that. If you\u2019re at an event like that, make sure you do that. But I\u2019ll also point out that over on the BiggerPockets forums, there\u2019s a place called the BiggerPockets Marketplace. And a lot of people know the Marketplace as where the deals are. You can go and a lot of people list their wholesale deals there and flips and things like that. It\u2019s great. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But what people don\u2019t know is you can use that as your \u201cHaves or Wants\u201d. Go in there and introduce yourself. If you\u2019re a Pro member anyway, you can post in the forums and the Marketplace. So say hey, I\u2019m looking to get started here in Pensacola and I\u2019m looking for a medium-sized apartment complex. If anybody has any around, let me know, right? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Those kind of posts might attract just the right person, especially if you have some keywords in there like city names. People will see that, read it, reach out to you. Just like in the real world where they surround you afterwards and like, hey, let\u2019s work together. I\u2019ve got an idea. They\u2019ll do that on the digital world as well. So I just wanted to point out those two things for people. So BiggerPockets.com\/events and BiggerPockets.com\/marketplace. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>I\u2019m telling you, Brandon, that\u2019s amazing advice, too. If you could set a weekly reminder to just repost it, automatic, you don\u2019t even think about it. It will take you two minutes to write and post. If you do that on a weekly basis, you\u2019ll be one of the first results when people are searching that. Or you\u2019ll be on the top. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">If you do it once and never do it again, you may or may not get any response and you\u2019re like, well it\u2019s not powerful enough. It didn\u2019t do that well. You\u2019ve got to be insistent and you\u2019ve got to be persistent and you have to have so many \u201cnos\u201d before you get any \u201cyeses\u201d. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>That\u2019s true. You guys are in the forums, at least I\u2019ve seen your names around. Can I ask you\u2014maybe this is a little selfish question but like, why do you participate in the BiggerPockets forums? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>I participate for two reasons. One, to learn, because there\u2019s still a tremendous amount of value that I don\u2019t know or never thought of. And two, to help give back. I promise you, if I weren\u2019t have found BiggerPockets, I would still be buying single-family homes that cost me $300 a month to keep, right? It was just a shift for me and I feel like I owe it to you guys, to BiggerPockets, to help educate others and get past that initial question, hey, here\u2019s a couple of numbers on a property\u2014is this a good deal? Well, it goes further than that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>That\u2019s the beauty of BiggerPockets. There are people who have just heard the term \u2018real estate\u2019 and they appear on BiggerPockets all the way to people who are multimillion dollar investors and everything in between. So if you just set a keyword notification and you say, if you\u2019ve done one deal and say if it\u2019s either a flip or maybe a small multi-family using the 203K list, for example. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">If you know you\u2019ve done a deal, set a keyword for that so when people jump on the forums and they ask a question that you know you could answer because you have the experience to back it up, do that. And try to do it every week. And then at the same time, you can go, what question do you have? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Post that question and you\u2019re going to have a hundred responses. It\u2019s just amazing, the power of BiggerPockets is insane and I have to attest BiggerPockets a lot to where Jay and I are at. We\u2019re nowhere near our goal of where we want to be in our goals, but BiggerPockets streamlines that process, if you leverage it properly. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>The selfish side of me is, and maybe this is just the way I am wired and thee way I learn but the more I educate, the more I learn if that makes sense.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Yeah, absolutely. They say you learn 98% of what you teach. That\u2019s the best way to learn about anything. One of the best ways that I love to use BiggerPockets is when you\u2019re on the forums or you meet somebody through there, you can click on their name, you can look at their profile, and you can see all the ways they\u2019ve contributed. And based on the types of things they are answering or the questions they\u2019re asking, you can get to know what kind of person that is, right? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So if I went to you guys\u2019 profiles, and I looked up Jay and I looked up Tim, I would see that Jay was answering questions that were very detail-oriented that had to do with analysis, that had to do with making sure all your ducks are in a row, and Tim was giving encouraging advice and coming up with these grandiose plans and telling people like, man this is what you\u2019ve got to do, you\u2019ve got to stop doing that. And then me knowing myself, I can figure out which kind of person that I needed in my life to help me become a better investor. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">The problem I think, is that most of us are looking for people that are just like we are, because we\u2019re more comfortable talking to people so analyzers want to talk to analyzers. So they get into circles of analyzation and they get their computers out and they run these numbers and they leave three hours later and they feel like they just worked and they just did something, right? And they did. They just tickled their little analyzation\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Ran into a defense lately, Jay?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>I did. I put on my propeller hat just for him. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Or the opposite happens which is big thinkers get together and they plan out these like 15-year plans to take over the world and be the next Elon Musk and then they don\u2019t do anything because they don\u2019t have an analyzation guy to actually put something in place to make it happen. You can\u2019t only talk to people that are like you. You\u2019ve got to find people that have the skills that you don\u2019t have. That\u2019s what makes really good teams. That\u2019s what the best sports teams, they have people do each aspect of what their team is trying to accomplish, at a really high level, and they all play well together.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And I just want to commend you guys for recognizing that and stepping into your comfort zone and putting it together because now you have a really good partnership. The two of you have a really good rapport. You know who\u2019s doing what. You know who\u2019s good at what and you guys are going to be successful on another deal, I\u2019m sure. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>And another thing I want to tell, a quick little story about how when we were\u2014we didn\u2019t even know each other yet. We just had gone out to dinner with that broker, then we found this 42-unit deal and we were conducting due diligence. I knew the first thing that we had to do was put a deal package together, an investment summary for the banks, for the investors, etc. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So I built it using Michael Blanc\u2019s summary deals. That\u2019s one example deal summary that I had in my toolbox. So I pretty much just made that reflect our deal and you know, just an overview, and I put as much detail as I possibly could into it and then that night, I\u2019m like hey, Jay, check this out for review. Within 24 hours, I truly believed that he had some kind of investment summary making guru that he had in the back office of his house, because of the detail and how amazing it was in a 24-hour timeframe. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">All the detail he put in, all the pictures were on point. There was like all the legal terms were on every single page, it\u2019s a professional grade deal package. And I\u2019m like all right, from this point forward, Jay, we already know who\u2019s going to be doing the deal packages in our partnership. And so that\u2019s just how we really realized who was going to do what for that particular piece. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>That\u2019s funny. So now that you guys have found each other through networking, through BiggerPockets, do you have any advice for people who are listening to this that are like, I need that. I need a partner because I am the left brain or I am the right brain. I need somebody to come up with what I lack. What\u2019s kind of the first couple steps you would advise for people looking for that?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Know for sure you\u2019ve got to be patient with yourself because you have to give people reasons to want to partner with you. And how do you do that? You do that by knowing what you\u2019re talking about, being able to speak the language by reading books, listening to this podcast over and over and over, even if you know it\u2019s not in the particular genre that you want to go after, or the niche. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So just educating yourself to where you talk the talk and you know what you\u2019re talking about, being patient with yourself and then going right back to having clear and concise goals and having it narrowed down into 10 or 15 second elevator type pitch, not to sound salesy, but just so you could just repeat it over and over in your head ten times. So when anybody asks you what do you do or what are you looking for?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">My name is Tim. I focus on B and C multi-family properties. We\u2019re focusing hard right now on mobile home communities and apartment complexes in desirable neighborhoods with a predictable path to progress. And if you could just fine-tune that and just tell everybody something similar for your own particular situation, people will take you a lot more seriously. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So be patient with yourself. Go to those REIA meetings. Get in front of people. Break out of your comfort zone. If you\u2019re one of those left brain type of people, like Jay\u2014I know for me, it\u2019s like second nature so I\u2019m not really out of my comfort zone when I\u2019m doing that stuff, but you know, you have to portray yourself as a subject matter expert. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Even if you have to close a deal, at least talk the talk and say this is what I\u2019m looking for. I know exactly what I\u2019m looking for and then brokers will take you more seriously, too. So what else do you got for finding partners? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>You know, finding partners, I would say the same thing I do for finding brokers. You\u2019ve got to have that one-on-one time. I think meeting socially or through social media is one part of it. But you\u2019ve got to get some face time. It\u2019s really hard to portray geniality over the web or over text. So you\u2019ve got to get some face time with them. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And like Tim said, you\u2019ve got to be patient. It\u2019s got to take some time to develop. I think we were extremely lucky with Kyle having the foresight of saying, these guys have like-minded goals. Let me link them together. And I think he did it as he was hoping to get a deal out of it. He still sends us leads. So I would just say that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Don\u2019t be afraid to go grab coffee with somebody. Don\u2019t be afraid to take them to lunch. Always buy lunch. If you ask somebody to go to lunch, always buy. It just lets people know that you\u2019re real and you\u2019re serious and you\u2019re genuine. And I\u2019ve been doing that with brokers and realtors for the last six months. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And usually, the conversation is about what interests them. What\u2019s going on in your world? What\u2019s going on with your family? That kind of thing. Eventually, you get personal. Now, don\u2019t, the first meeting, say hey I was stalking you on Facebook. What were you and your wife doing this weekend? That\u2019s not the way to do it. It\u2019s just be a real person to them. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Because now, I\u2019ve been doing that for six months or so, the deals that I\u2019m starting to receive are much more solid. They\u2019re in tune with what we\u2019re looking for and it\u2019s just\u2014we haven\u2019t closed on anything through those but the leads that are coming in are much more solid, right? Much more in our wheelhouse. Some of the sellers just think their properties are worth more than they are, but that\u2019s it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>It sounds like just read <i>How to Win Friends and Influence People<\/i> and then apply that in real-life situations. Be genuinely interested in others. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>You still haven\u2019t read that book?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>I have not read that one.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>The right brain part of the partnership has so we\u2019re good.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>So okay, you mentioned sellers are thinking their properties are worth way too much so like, you must have some criteria in what you think a good deal is. So can you kind of walk us through, what is a good deal to you guys? What are you looking for?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>Specifically, we\u2019re looking for, and the reason why we\u2019re looking for this when we\u2019re talking about multi-family now is just our investors are looking for a minimum of 15% ROR and somewhere between 7-10% ROI. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>ROI.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>Thank you. I\u2019m the numbers guy. Have we met? But the beauty about that, we talked about our 42-unit apartment complex, the way we split that up, it was a 60\/40 split, right? So the asset managers got 40% of the deal. The money guys got 60% of the deal. So the beauty of that, you know what your investors are looking for so you can kind of tailor the deal however you want to, and the latest deal package I put together, it was ugly and we ended up throwing it out. It was a 90\/10 split. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">The reason why I say the beauty of that, I learned this from one of our other partners, is that you go to an investor and say hey, this is going to get you 50% return, they\u2019re probably going to look at you and say hey, you\u2019re crazy. But he did this exact same thing. He reworked the numbers, gave himself a larger percentage, went back to the same investors and said, okay now what do you think? And they\u2019re like, yeah we can do that. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>It\u2019s more realistic. Even though it\u2019s less.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>The point I want to make there is you\u2019ve just got to know what your investors and what your potential partners are wanting out of the deal. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>So while Jay is stressing over the numbers, basically, I\u2019m looking at the location, especially if we don\u2019t know the market very well. I haven\u2019t analyzed a deal without going to three different websites. BestPlaces.net, BLS.gov\u2014it\u2019s Bureau and Labor Statistics, and City Data. City-Data.com. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">All we\u2019re looking for is your very simple metrics that are so powerful, is that is the population increasing? Is it going up? Higher than the average, which I think is like between 4-7% depending on where you\u2019re looking. Per year population growth. And then not only that but the median home price has to be above $100,000. Because if it\u2019s below $100,000 that means that people could actually afford to buy their own homes instead of renting one of your units. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So median home value, at least $120,000 is usually where our target is. We\u2019d be willing to look between $100,000-$120,000 depending on how the metrics are checking out. And then making sure that there\u2019s diverse employment in that market. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">There\u2019s more than two, three, four solid employment industries in that market, making sure that there\u2019s healthcare, maybe there\u2019s government, maybe there\u2019s aviation. Maybe there\u2019s a school system. Multiple, not just one. It can\u2019t just be one specific industry that is carrying the economics of that market. So the location is the first thing I look at while he\u2019s stressing over the numbers, basically. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>And don\u2019t be afraid of beehives either.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Beehives? Is there a story with this?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>So during the due diligence of our 42-unit, we noticed that there were some bees swarming around this unit that was not occupied. And that was it. They were swarming on the outside or what not. Well then, we got to go into the unit and bees started coming in more and coming in more. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So our manager, our property manager at the time wanted to just go in there and have our groundskeeper spray them down and that be it. And I was like, no. Something\u2019s telling me that there\u2019s more to that. So we hired a professional beekeeper to come in and scope out the situation. The hive in there was about five years old. The size of it was ginormous. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Like six feet by four feet wide. Four feet wide by six feet long. It was massive and crazy.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>But we got some pictures of it and we got some really good honey out of it that I actually jarred up and gave to our investors. The running joke was, either this was going to be the most expensive jar of honey you\u2019ve ever purchased or this is your first dividend. So that\u2019s what it was. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>But that\u2019s going back to we\u2019re looking for that value add opportunities. We\u2019re looking for the locations. Obviously, the numbers gotta work. But value add opportunities like high expenses. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Essentially, where\u2019s the NOI and high expenses could mean that the owner is paying for some of the utilities or water, where you can bill it back using RUGS\u2014a ratio utility billing system, on a master meter. It\u2019s simply just get numbers put into a formula and every tenant gets billed back equally based on occupancy. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So low expenses\u2014if their shutters are falling off, if the grass is overgrown, and then of course, if there\u2019s a distressed seller. If the seller is in any way distressed. And how do you know that, Jay? How would you know if a seller is distressed?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>He\u2019s in his mid-70s and if you look at the property that he\u2019s been managing and taking care of himself and half the shutters don\u2019t have windows on them. Some of the units didn\u2019t even have unit numbers on them. We walk in through, when we were doing due diligence, and one of the units had some water damage to it. And there\u2019s mold. Surface mold that hasn\u2019t been taken care of. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>That\u2019s how most people respond to it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>I\u2019ve been meaning to get to that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Like two years ago? That\u2019s pretty much it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>Oh yeah, we also found a stack of about, for podcast listeners, it\u2019s about four inches thick, of trouble calls that were never addressed, by the tenants. Dating back probably just a couple of years of trouble calls. So the tenants were not getting taken care of and that\u2019s why it had the reputation that it did. That\u2019s some easy ways to identify good opportunity. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>I wonder if there\u2019s some way to use\u2014I\u2019ve never heard of an investor talking about this, but I wonder, and I\u2019m just going to give away some massive secret here\u2014use like Yelp and find like apartments that have the worst ratings on Yelp and use that as leads. I don\u2019t know if they rate apartments on Yelp but I wonder, there is probably a thing there. The more complaints the tenants have, probably the worse the landlord is and the more likely they would be to sell.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>Google Reviews allows you to review just about anything.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, looking at Google Reviews and seeing if you can find the ones\u2014anyway, before we move onto the <i>Fire Round<\/i>, I\u2019m curious\u2014I actually got inspired just now by our conversation earlier about how a lot of the real estate clubs have this section of \u201cHaves and Wants\u201d. So I\u2019m going to shift that to our guests today, you guys. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Is there anything that you guys want that our listeners might have? Is there something we can help with, like our listeners listening right now, what is it? You have the clear and concise goals so what is it that you would like our listeners to know that you guys are looking for in your business? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>And Jay can back me up or completely change it but this is what I believe that we\u2019re looking for, and it is mobile home communities and apartment complexes, any size and any condition, within a three-hour drive of Pensacola, Florida. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">That means in Mobile, Alabama, Mississippi, getting closer to Orlando and Tampa and Jacksonville. And then up into Atlanta. Not as far as New Orleans. That\u2019s probably like the border, but any size, any condition, mobile home communities and apartment complexes or multi-family deal. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">We like to stay between, at least over 60 units, up to 100. But we\u2019re going to look at all deals. Some hidden gems won\u2019t meet all of our criteria, which we\u2019d be willing to flex. What\u2019s your response say? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>Yeah, from an asset standpoint, absolutely. I think, too, and this is something I\u2019m venturing off myself is I really do want to get back\u2014I think ther\u2019s a niche that I can help serve and get back, and you guys at BiggerPockets do this, too. But the focus for myself is real estate investing for the W-2 employee. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And that\u2019s kind of what our Facebook group is dedicated towards, because I started this journey with\u2014I\u2019m going to clarify this in case my boss is listening\u2014so the company that I had worked for, for a little over a decade, I was the Principle at, we were required under no stretch of the imagination did that acquisition go good. I don\u2019t even want to use the word great. Everybody claims that everybody knows it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">It was a very frustrating time in my life and I was like, hey, I\u2019m ready to pull the ripcord and I\u2019m ready to do this full-time. Well, that was three and a half years ago and things have since ironed out and I actually love what I do. Just like you guys. Brandon, I\u2019ve heard you and Mindy and Scott, I\u2019m sure David said the same thing, is that we could all be financially free right now but we love to be able to give back. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So my focus is now, hey, you can do this while you work a full-time job and focus on that niche. And a lot of me focusing on that is in turn helping me learn, right? Teach but learn kind of thing. So I would love to point people to that Facebook group. But yeah, from an asset standpoint, Tim it right on the head. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Cool. And we will link to you guys\u2019 BiggerPockets profiles, obviously in the Show Notes of this show, which you can get to at BiggerPockets.com\/Show282. But we\u2019re not quite done yet. We\u2019ve still got the next segment of the show which we lovingly refer to as our <i>Fire Round<\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>It\u2019s Time for the Fire Round<\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Today\u2019s episode is brought to you by our friends at RealtyShares.com. I love these guys. RealtyShares is a real estate crowdfunding platform that allows accredited investors to invest in pre-vetted real estate deals online. So investors can browse and then invest in both residential and commercial properties that yield returns 8-16% annually. As a Realty Shares member, you can passively invest in professionally managed real estate investments in a variety of asset types and geographies for as little as $5,000, all from the convenience of your living room. So to learn more and to get started with a free account, just go to BiggerPockets.com\/RealtyShares. That\u2019s BiggerPockets.com\/RealtyShares. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Today\u2019s <i>Fire Round<\/i>, of course, let\u2019s get to it. These questions come direct out of the BiggerPockets forums, and I know you guys are active there, so maybe you\u2019ll recognize the questions or maybe not. So let\u2019s see if you can help out some people in the forums.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Number one, I love this question. I have three tenants. All of them are on a lease: a young woman, a young man, and the young man\u2019s father. The couple is nice and they make more than enough to afford the place. It\u2019s the father who is clearly a freeloader. Last night, the father and the son got into a fight and it sounds like the police were called. I\u2019m waiting to see a copy of the police report. The dad got a restraining order first so the couple can\u2019t stay. They are only three months into a year-long lease. Any advice? Should I keep the couple? Should I get them all out of there? What do I do? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>If the couple is gone and the dad is living there, I\u2019d be fine with it. I would say if it went any further than that, I would seek your attorney\u2019s advice to see what you legally can do because I don\u2019t imagine in your lease, it says something like if you get into a fight with your wife\u2019s dad or whatever, you have to leave. I would focus on the legal aspects of it and get some advice on that and I\u2019m not the person qualified to give you that advice.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>That\u2019s the thing. Before I can even try to manufacture some kind of answer, I\u2019m going to go straight to the property management thing and say, how are you going to handle this, and they have an amazing attorney on retainer. And he\u2019s going to be an instrumental piece in that decision and there\u2019s a lot of depending factors, like what\u2019s the occupancy and all this? Is it going to make or break the numbers? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">But even if it did, something like that is only going to escalate. There\u2019s no way that I could foresee that Dad is either moving out or essentially just changing his behavior overnight to where okay, regardless of what you tell him or you try to convince him, and so it\u2019s probably not going to get any better. It\u2019s only going to get worse at that point. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>David Greene, you were a cop. Any thoughts on that question?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>You know, this is actually such a tricky situation for police because there\u2019s no crime committed, it sounds like, just an argument. And then a lot of people don\u2019t realize, in my state of California, if you\u2019ve been living in a place for a certain period of time regardless of if you\u2019re a freeloader or not, you still have tenants\u2019 rights and it actually has to go to civil court and the judge has to evict you from like your parent\u2019s house if you\u2019re a kid and they\u2019ve been living there for a long time. So the lease probably doesn\u2019t cover some of this stuff because legally it can\u2019t. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So I think I would do exactly what Tim did, I would go to property management and say how are you going to handle this? What do you recommend we do? And then I would probably make a decision about who I\u2019m going to try to kick out first. I would say, we need to start paying a lot more attention to this house. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I want a weekly walkthrough. I want to make sure it\u2019s not falling apart. I want to make sure the rents are paid on time. The first mistake they make, if I want to get rid of them, boom. That\u2019s what I would do. But I wouldn\u2019t just jump right to that, think oh this could get bad. I better kick them out. No, just pay a little more attention. Do a little more investigating.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>And maybe pay a little more attention to detail in your screening process. Was the screening process in place at that point or how did they get through the process?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Maybe the dad wasn\u2019t even supposed to be there. I don\u2019t know. I think it said he was on the lease though.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Yeah, he was on the lease.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>All right. Anyway, cool. All right, good question. What\u2019s funny is those kinds of things do happen when you\u2019re managing your own properties all the time. Like, we constantly deal with stuff like that. And most of the time, our response is like, we just don\u2019t get involved unless the rent gets paid. Unless they break the lease, I don\u2019t get involved with the drama. Because there\u2019s always going to be drama with tenants. The lower income you have, the more drama you have. And it\u2019s just what it is.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>My question was, are they paying rent on time every single month? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Well then maybe we\u2019ll give them a little bit of flexibility. And that\u2019s why I use property management. If I don\u2019t have the authority to arrest you, I don\u2019t want to be involved. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>All right, next question. The seller does not want to give me a due diligence period in the offer I am writing. What do I do?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Walk away. I would say walk away unless they can give you all the requested financials, which are essentially a one-sheet of paper with all kinds of bullet marks. Everything from certified financials to a PNL dated in the last 36 months, and all leases. If they can provide me everything I\u2019m asking for, it\u2019s still going to be\u2014and that\u2019s only paper but you still need time to walk the property and take a vendor through. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I\u2019m trying to figure out a way around that. I\u2019m just wondering how they\u2019re going to sell it. They\u2019re going to probably sell it to somebody who is either paying cash and doesn\u2019t know what they\u2019re doing or somebody who has the resources to no conduct the diligence because they know the property very well and they have all the financial data that they already and they already need. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>So it basically comes down to, you\u2019ve got a process you know that works. And the way to repeat success is to use the same process. If you\u2019re used to doing acquiring properties like that, by means, so be it. I\u2019m not there. I don\u2019t know if I ever will be.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>It\u2019s funny this came up in the <i>Fire Round <\/i>because the exact scenario is happning to me, last week. My agent\u2019s calling and I\u2019m finally like what? She said there\u2019s a great deal but the sellers don\u2019t want to offer you a due diligence period. I\u2019m like, well why? They just want to see it as is. Thy don\u2019t want to have to do any work. I was like okay, did they already do a home inspection so that I can look at? No they didn\u2019t do it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Okay, well do they have any reports of what\u2019s been done? No, that\u2019s not the case. They said that you can pay the report yourself and then write an offer if you\u2019d like. And I thought the same thing as you, who\u2019s going to buy your house? If you\u2019re telling people A, I won\u2019t do due diligence period. That just puts up red flags. I\u2019m probably going to have to pay more essentially than I would have if you didn\u2019t say that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And then you wouldn\u2019t even get a report done for me to be able to look at myself. Now we\u2019re just like in a stalemate because it\u2019s stupid. Now that house is just going to sit on the market for 60 days. I probably could just go and get my own inspection report because nobody would ever buy it but just out of pure principle, I don\u2019t want to.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Me and Jay were just talking about that. It seems now sellers are doing due diligence on the buyers before the buyers even start due diligence. We\u2019re trying to put an LOI in for this mobile home community and before we get even it under contract, they were like, we need to see a preapproval from a bank. We need to know exactly how much they\u2019re putting down. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">We need to know what bank they\u2019re using. Like this whole list of stuff, they\u2019re doing due diligence on us before we even get it under contract. It\u2019s like, I don\u2019t know if I want to proceed with this deal. There\u2019s too many deals out there to mess with this one. But that\u2019s funny, I just thought of that when you asked the question. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>And I know we\u2019re fine. But I\u2019ve got a similar experience. It wasn\u2019t due diligence. It was verifiable income. So I had a 36-pad mobile home park under contract and kept asking, initial request in the seller\u2019s agreement was provide verifiable income expense statements. Anyway, I ended up walking away from them because they would not do it. They would not provide. I think their last comment after many, many excuses was, we\u2019re just good people. You just need to trust us. Clearly they weren\u2019t very motivated to sell if they weren\u2019t.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>What\u2019s funny is when I was doing the mobile home, I mean I\u2019m still looking for mobile homes but when I was buying my first mobile home park, I was running across that kind of thing all the time. So many mobile home park operators do not have any records. They probably walked door to door, and say, hey you guys got your change out of your couch cushion today? They just collect rent when they want, how they want.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Will you take our piece of notebook paper that\u2019s signed or maybe not signed?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>I think Tim was onto something there. I don\u2019t think they were motivated to sell. Because I even offered to do a master lease for three years so I can build that financial information and strike a deal with them but they weren\u2019t up for it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yep, onto the next one. All right, next question, if you had no ties to any city in the U.S., where would you move to start your investing career?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Me personally, I\u2019m going to live where I want to live and I\u2019m going to invest where it makes sense. So investing would be the middle of the United States. South and the Midwest. That is where there\u2019s steady growth. When you\u2019re looking at the United States, the East Coast and the West Coast is the most volatile, that reacts the most to the per se market cycle, the cyclical 20-year period of time that homes appreciate and depreciate. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So the middle of America is the most proven to be steady growth. There\u2019s going to still be down markets but during those super volatile times where California and Florida are going up and down, the Midwest and the South are stable. So I would invest there and maybe move to Hawaii and hang out and learn how to surf from Brandon. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>You\u2019re invited anytime. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>You\u2019ve already got the shirt. Pull the money out of your couch cushions and you can pay for your plane ticket and you\u2019re ready to go. Brandon, why don\u2019t you take this last question?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>All right, I can do it. I think it\u2019s an interesting question but it\u2019s kind of long. So 12 months ago, this guy paid off his first rental property in Boise, Idaho. Now, he\u2019s making a cash flow of a little over $1,000 a month. He thinks he can sell the property for like $230,000. So it\u2019s worth $230K and he\u2019s making $1,000 a month in cash flow. So he wants to take that money and use it elsewhere. He\u2019s not making a massive return off what the property is worth. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">The two options are A, sell it and take the money and invest it in two single-family house rentals. Maybe put 20-25% down on each one. Or not sell it, take out a home equity line of credit instead. Get a line of credit on it and then use that to buy one more house. What would you do?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>What do you got, Jay?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>I don\u2019t know this guy or his goals, right? So it really depends on what he wants to accomplish. For me, I\u2019m in it for cash flow. I\u2019m going to pursue the option that\u2019s going to give me the most cash flow. Now, I do like home equity line of credits. Because you\u2019re only going to pay what you\u2019re using, versus selling it off, putting down payments. I don\u2019t know. I\u2019d have to run the numbers here, overthinker and analyzer coming out of me. I want to see what\u2019s going to give me the most cash flow.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>You know, I think it\u2019s a really interesting question. I\u2019ve never heard of anybody asking it in the forums before. I\u2019ve never seen it before. That\u2019s why I wanted to bring it up because while this guy is talking about a paid off property, the same question comes up all the time from people wondering should I sell the house I live in right now and buy a rental with it, or should I just refinance it or get a home equity line of credit? <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And so yeah, for me, I\u2019m kind of like you. I\u2019d just go through the credit number and be like, which would give you the highest return? And go through all the numbers and the return on equity. David, you use that number a lot, return on equity. Is it worth pulling out? Anyways, there is no right or wrong.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>I\u2019m never a fan of leaving equity in property. Not only is it not financially smart because you don\u2019t have the return on equity, right? But you\u2019re just making yourself more and more vulnerable to a very litigious society. And the more equity that you have in your property, the more people are going to look at you and try to go after your assets if something happens.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Yeah, you can always have all the asset protection in the world under an umbrella policy on your insurance and everything but there\u2019s not enough coverage with you. If you have a completely paid off property, they\u2019re going to look at you before they look at someone who has a hundred properties with low equity on every single one of them. So I don\u2019t foresee myself anytime in the near future leaving a whole lot of equity on any property. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>There you go. All right well let\u2019s transition to the last segment of the show, which we call our <i>Famous Four<\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">These are the same four questions we ask our guests every week and we\u2019re going to throw them at you guys right now. Number one, I\u2019m sure you\u2019ve heard these before. Number one, what\u2019s your favorite real estate\u2014each of you can answer individually\u2014what\u2019s your favorite real estate related book, or current favorite book?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>We should paper, rocks, scissors it. No, go ahead.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b><i>Rich Dad, Poor Dad<\/i>. You guys have mentioned it a lot. Many, many guests have mentioned it on the show. That book, but there was a trifecta when I discovered that book and it was actually discovered through BiggerPockets but we talked about the merger acquisition I was a part of and how horrible of a nightmare that was. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">My wife was pregnant with our first child. Discovering that book just had a paradigm shift for me in the way I look at managing money and growing a lifestyle for us. So it has to be <i>Rich Dad, Poor Dad<\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Everybody defaults to <i>Rich Dad, Poor Dad<\/i> because it\u2019s the mindshift that gets everybody into it so I\u2019m going to have to say <i>Rich Dad, Poor Dad<\/i>. But for real estate, I\u2019m probably going to have to go to Ken McElroy\u2019s <i>ABCs of Real Estate Investing<\/i>. He is the real reason why I pretty much stopped looking at small residential property and I went straight for multi-family. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">It\u2019s like literally, and Brandon, you\u2019re the one who mentioned it countless times over and over, and I was like all right, maybe I should buy it and I should read it, a couple of years ago. And it\u2019s a step-by-step guide of how to analyze multi-family property, how to conduct due diligence, and it\u2019s just like he simplifies everything. And then of course, his advanced guides are excellent. So if I had to choose one, <i>Rich Dad, Poor Dad<\/i> is that mindset shift, but <i>The ABCs of Real Estate Investing<\/i> probably had the most profound impact on my career so far. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>Isn\u2019t it scary how much advice we get from a guy who has to <\/span><span class=\"s2\">[inaudible][1:09:54]<\/span><span class=\"s1\">?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Hey, double human protection. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Nobody can see that but before the show started today, I\u2019m at my buddy\u2019s house recording this podcast, hence the bad sound, and I put on a pair of headphones and they are massive. And they\u2019re like air traffic controller headphones. And then he\u2019s got sitting here another pair of headphones, so I thought, why don\u2019t we throw those on, too, make the point? So I\u2019ve got more headphones than any person can ever need.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>What\u2019s even funnier, and people don\u2019t realize this, is Brandon suffered a concussion yesterday because he\u2019s too tall and he walked into the ceiling of the house where he\u2019s staying at, and it actually looks like he\u2019s wearing a special helmet to protect himself from the concussions.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>His eye was also gouged down. He doesn\u2019t see how funny it actually looks. He\u2019s only had one eye at this point. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>I\u2019ve had a rough few days here.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>It looks like we\u2019re visiting him in like the mental institution and he\u2019s got a soft helmet on and he\u2019s been poking himself in the eye, poor guy. But he\u2019s here, providing amazing content for all of us in this podcast.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>All right, shifting back to you guys.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Back to business. We\u2019re not making fun of Brandon anymore. Tell me what are your favorite business books?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>Is this me? I\u2019ll give you two. I\u2019m a big fan of Grant Cardone, anything he puts out. But are you guys familiar with Ryan Mickler at all? So he just recently released a book, <i>Sovereignty<\/i>:<i> Battles for the Hearts and Minds of Men<\/i>. It gets into business a little bit but it is a little more inclusive about protect, preside, and provide for your family and what it takes to be a man. So that book, alongside <i>Rich Dad, Poor Dad<\/i>, was a paradigm shift for me. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Have you read <i>Wild at Heart? <\/i>David Greene and I throw that book out a lot. We both know that book. It reminds me of what you just said about <i>Sovereignty<\/i>. I haven\u2019t looked that one up but I\u2019ll look it up.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>I\u2019ll read it. I\u2019ll add it to the list right now.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b><i>Wild at Heart. <\/i>Awesome book. But anyway.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Tim?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>So if I had to\u2014again, there\u2019s so many great ones. And it turns out, I\u2019m going to name two because it has equal impact on my life and in my career. The first one would have to be <i>Tax-Free Wealth<\/i> by Tom Wheelwright, at his Rich Dad advisor, his CPA. And everybody hears how many tax incentives you get in real estate but he really just simplifies why there are so many tax benefits and so many incentives and he was the guy that maybe understands the IRS and the fact that the IRS is not just trying to consume as much capital as possible from the W-2 earner. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">The IRS simply incentivizes certain behavior. That behavior is to provide housing and to provide jobs. If you invest in real estate, you happen to be doing both. So that\u2019s why the IRS gives so many tax cuts and so many tax benefits to investors. Plus, he goes on a tangent and kind of a step-by-step guide to choosing a CPA that\u2019s right for you. So tax-free wealth is huge. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">And then the second one is <i>The Go-Giver<\/i>. That one is an amazing book. It\u2019s just the five steps to stratospheric success or something like that but it\u2019s all based on giving. It\u2019s all based on the more you give, the more you will receive. The amount of income that you earn is based on how much value you could bring. And how much you can give all day, but you have to also be open-minded and have to be willing to receive as well. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So, <i>The Go-Giver<\/i>. I\u2019m sorry, that was a short read. Super short read, super easy read. Even <i>The Tax-Free Wealth<\/i> is a short read but those are probably the two that I had to mention. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Yeah, somebody gave me <i>The Go-Giver<\/i>. I haven\u2019t read it yet. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Oh man, dive in. It\u2019s great.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Wow, somebody gave you <i>The Go-Giver<\/i>? Somebody was paying attention.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>All right, what about hobbies? What do you guys enjoy doing when you\u2019re not cleaning out beehives from abandoned apartments?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>Anything the family wants to do. I love my family, I love my wife. Love my kids. We\u2019re situated in Gulf Breeze which is between downtown Pensacola and Pensacola Beach. So downtown Pensacola has been going through this revivalization for about ten years now and it\u2019s just incredible. Booming area. So we hopped down there. If we get tired of going to the beach or on the boat or fishing or what-not.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>So yeah, amazing beautiful wife, Alison. Spending as much time with her as possible. We don\u2019t have kids so this is the time in our lives where the time together actually means a lot before we start becoming parents. And then, Brandon, you don\u2019t know this yet but I, too, have a four-pound Yorkie. He\u2019s amazing. His name is McGee. Best dog I\u2019ve ever met. I never thought I would be a dude that has a four-pound Yorkie. I always wanted a German Shepard or a Rottweiler because I\u2019m a guy, but best dog ever. So I spend as much time with them as possible, of course. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Did you name him McGee after McGee and me kids\u2019 videos back when we were kids? Do you remember those at all?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>No, I\u2019ve never actually\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>You remember those, David, right?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>Yeah, I do. They were like Veggie Tales before Veggie Tales.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Yeah, they were like \u201880s big kids\u2019 videos. Anyway. McGee and Me. Look it up on YouTube.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>When my wife and I first got together, she would call me McGee just random, and then one of my favorite all-time bands is Unfreeze McGee, an awesome band out of Chicago. And that transitioned into the fact that music is my passion. I can\u2019t live without music. I\u2019ve been playing drums all my life. I play in a band in this area. We have shows most weekends. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">So I love going to see music and that\u2019s one of the reasons I wanted to get into real estate, so my wife and I could travel the world and go see music all over the world and enjoy it. It just takes me into a different mindset when I\u2019m seeing live music. And then staying active, being on the water where Pensacola beach is one of the finest beaches in Florida. Super clear. I like to scuba dive and stay active and enjoy the summertime. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>Awesome. All right, well, my last question and you guys can answer this independently if you want or together, it doesn\u2019t matter. What do you think separates successful individuals from those who give up, fail, or never get started?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>I think we both had the same answer, right? Pretty close is that you\u2019ve got to know your \u2018why\u2019. I touched on this earlier. You\u2019ve got to know why you want to invest and then you can set up goals to support that why and then you can focus on your investing criteria to support those goals. But you\u2019ve got to know why.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>And I could say it\u2019s the grit. Never giving up. That\u2019s it. Just knowing that whatever\u2019s happening in your career, whatever you\u2019re failing at, know in the back of your head that this is all part of the process. Just keep going. Keep talking to people. If there is a brick wall that you have faced, it\u2019s usually one person that\u2019s missing from the equation or maybe one book or something you need to get, that little piece of advice or one podcast that you just need to listen to. Just don\u2019t give up. Don\u2019t stop. And establishing your \u2018why\u2019. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">I have to emphasize that because I spent so much time establishing my \u2018why\u2019. Not only why I wanted to do this for myself because I want freedom and I want to give back and help promote financial education all over the world. But understand why people get into real estate. Really educate yourself on why people get really involved. Why there\u2019s so much tax benefits. Why the government struggles to provide affordable housing. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Why all that\u2014so if you have that solid \u2018why\u2019, I could say you need to set up your \u2018why\u2019, but learn about all the reasons why people would do this and why real estate is so powerful. I think because I spent so much time on that, everything is just a habit. Like I don\u2019t even have to think I\u2019ve just got to keep going. I failed but I just have to keep going. It\u2019s just a habit now. It just automatically happens because of that \u2018why\u2019, it\u2019s so strong and stable. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>It\u2019s a motivator. When we talk about all the good stuff that happens and the deals, and growing our financial wealth and independence. Things go wrong and you\u2019ve got to have something you can rely on to help pick you back up and get you motivated again. And the clearer your \u2018why\u2019 is, the easier it is to do.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>All right. Tell us, guys, how can people find out more about you?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Of course, on BiggerPockets. I think I\u2019m TimmyKelly on BiggerPockets. And I\u2019m pretty active on Facebook and LinkedIn. TimmyKelly on Facebook and then LinkedIn is Timothy Kelly. Pretty active on Instagram, the Timothy Kelly, and then my website, KellyHousingGroup. Any of those ways. And then you can always give me a call. Area code 847-910-9161 or shoot me an e-mail anytime. <a href=\"mailto:Tim@KellyHG.com\" target=\"_blank\"><span class=\"s3\">Tim@KellyHG.com<\/span><\/a>. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>You just gave out your cell phone number to 200,000 people. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Only one of them may even consider calling. By all means. I\u2019m very, very open to it, guys.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>All right, Jay, what\u2019s your cell phone number?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>555-5555. I have a landing page to point everybody to. It\u2019s HelmsREI.com. From there, you can hop over. We\u2019ve got all the social media links. There\u2019s some page you can download. One of the things we talked about earlier is sample deal package. There\u2019s a link to the Facebook group. And the e-mail, of course, is on there. But yeah. HelmsREI.com. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>All right. Good deal. Well, thank you, gentlemen. This has been a lot of fun today. I\u2019m kind of excited to see where you guys are heading next in your little partnership. So super cool.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Tim: <\/b>Absolutely.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Jay: <\/b>Thanks for having us, Brandon. Watch your head when you get up.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>That beam is too low. Thank you. Good men, good men. Well, get out of here. Adios. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">All right, that was our show with Jay Helms and Tim Kelly. Super, super cool. I love hearing that story. I love people who are, they connect on BiggerPockets or through BiggerPockets. Getting together, working real estate together. It\u2019s like you said in the intro, right? The Avengers? Sometimes we have things that we\u2019re really good at, sometimes we\u2019re not. You find people to work together and you can take on a lot of bad guys. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>These guys took down a 42-unit property together. I would venture to guess that they would not have bought a 21-unit apartment individually. So like the sum of the parts is greater than the sum of the whole or however that saying goes. Definitely the case with these guys. So that\u2019s very encouraging. If you\u2019re not getting the success you want, maybe you\u2019re missing a partner.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>There you go. I actually use a lot of partners in various deals. I\u2019ve kind of always done that. In fact, I\u2019m looking at another deal right now that I\u2019m trying to put together and I\u2019m going to use a partnership for that. So more on that as it develops. I\u2019m kind of excited. It should push me over the hundred unit number that I was trying to get to, so we\u2019ll see.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>That\u2019s really something.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>That\u2019s really something. I\u2019m growing up and putting on my big boy pants.<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>A hundred-unit club. I like it. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>Brandon: <\/b>If I get it, it\u2019ll be like the 150-unit club, which will be pretty exciting. We\u2019ll see. I\u2019ll tell you more about that later. Off the air because I don\u2019t have it under contract yet. All right ya\u2019ll, it\u2019s been fun. Thank you guys for joining us today. If you like this show, make sure you subscribe to this show whether you\u2019re on iTunes, whether you\u2019re on Google, whether on YouTube, whether on Facebook or whatever. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Subscribe. Hit that little button. Hit the little \u2018Like\u2019 button. Share this with your friends. Make sure you like and comment and all that. And again, another good way to find partners. If you want to find people, start sharing stuff like this on your Facebook page. I\u2019m not saying that for selfish reasons. Go share somebody else\u2019s stuff that\u2019s not even related to BP. <\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\">Just share real estate content on your Facebook or on your Instagram or on your Snapchat or whatever you do. Snapchat it if you\u2019re like seven. And let people know that you are in real estate and they will reach out to you and you never know who you\u2019re going to find. So with that, DG, anything you want to add?<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><b>David: <\/b>I think you said it. If you ain\u2019t subscribing, you ain\u2019t trying. So you better go subscribe and let everyone know you\u2019re legit. And with that, this is David Greene for Brandon \u201cI Am Groot\u201d Turner, signing off.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>You\u2019re listening to BiggerPockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors, large and small. If you\u2019re here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype, you\u2019re in the right place. <\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<p class=\"p1\"><span class=\"s1\"><i>Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets.com, your home for real estate investing online.<\/i><\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<h2 id=\"podcast-youtube-video\">Watch the Podcast Here<\/h2>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"How to Create the Perfect Partnership | BiggerPockets Podcast Show 282\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/VycHSn1W85I?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h2>Help Us Out!<\/h2>\n<p>Help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review! It takes just 30 seconds and instructions can be found <a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/forums\/25\/topics\/161423-do-you-listen-to-the-bp-podcast\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">here<\/a>. Thanks! We really appreciate it!<\/p>\n<h2>Fire Round\u00a0Sponsor<\/h2>\n<p>We just wa<img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignright size-full wp-image-66280 no-display appear\" src=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/11\/RealtyShares.png\" alt=\"RealtyShares\" width=\"283\" height=\"60\" title=\"\">nted to give a shout out to our podcast sponsor\u00a0on today\u2019s show:<strong> RealtyShares<\/strong>. RealtyShares is a crowdfunding platform that allows you to invest in professionally managed properties without leaving your living room!<\/p>\n<p>Learn more by visiting\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.realtyshares.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">RealtyShares.com\/biggerpockets<\/a>!<\/p>\n<h2>In This Episode We Cover:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>Tim&#8217;s <strong>background story<\/strong> and how he got into real estate<\/li>\n<li>Using <strong>203k loans<\/strong> to buy deals<\/li>\n<li>Jay&#8217;s background and <strong>his live-in flip<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>Why they think they make up a <strong>good team<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>How they closed on an <strong>apartment complex<\/strong> 6-months after partnering up<\/li>\n<li>How they found the deal and <strong>details<\/strong> about it<\/li>\n<li>The importance of a <strong>clear and concise plan<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>How they <strong>financed<\/strong> the deal<\/li>\n<li>Tips for finding the <strong>right partners<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>How to create a <strong>&#8220;sample deal package&#8221;<\/strong><\/li>\n<li><strong>What to look for<\/strong> in a partner<\/li>\n<li>Why they participate in the <strong>BiggerPockets Forums<\/strong><\/li>\n<li>How to <strong>network<\/strong> effectively<\/li>\n<li>What a <strong>good deal<\/strong> is for them<\/li>\n<li><strong>And SO much more!<\/strong><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Links from the Show<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/forums\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Forums<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/webinars\" target=\"_blank\">BiggerPockets Webinar<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"\/renewsblog\/2014\/04\/17\/bp-066-entrepreneurship-michael-blank\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Podcast 066: Flips, Apartments, &amp; Protecting Yourself From Professional Tenants with Michael Blank<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/events\" target=\"_blank\">BiggerPockets Events<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/marketplace\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">BiggerPockets Marketplace<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.bestplaces.net\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Best Places<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.bls.gov\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Bureau of Labor Statistics<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"http:\/\/www.city-data.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">City Data<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.yelp.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Yelp<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Books Mentioned in this Show<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/2M5bSy2\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>How to Win Friends &amp; Influence People<\/em><\/a> by Dale Carnegie<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/richdadpoordad\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>Rich Dad Poor Dad<\/em><\/a> by Robert Kiyosaki<\/li>\n<li><em><a title=\"ABCs Real Estate Investing Investors\" href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/2LrjM3r\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">The ABCs of Real Estate Investing<\/a><\/em>\u00a0by Ken McElroy<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/2M5JYBN\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>Sovereignty: The Battle for the Hearts and Minds of Men<\/em><\/a> by\u00a0Ryan Michler<\/li>\n<li><a title=\"Wild Heart Field Manual Masculine\" href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/2JfWXDv\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>Wild at Heart Field Manual<\/em><\/a>\u00a0by\u00a0John Eldredge<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/2Lrk9uR\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><em>Tax-Free Wealth<\/em><\/a> by\u00a0Tom Wheelwright<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Fire Round Questions<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/forums\/647\/topics\/573312-sellers-do-not-want-to-give-due-diligence-what-do-i-do\" target=\"_blank\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Sellers Do Not Want to Give Due Diligence. What Do I do?<\/span><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/forums\/12\/topics\/572004-if-u-had-no-ties-2-any-city-where-would-u-move-2-start-investing\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">If u had no ties 2 any city,Where would u move 2 start investing?<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Tweetable Topics:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li>&#8220;Is there a better way to first get involved in real estate than to leverage the power of the bank?&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22Is%20there%20a%20better%20way%20to%20first%20get%20involved%20in%20real%20estate%20than%20to%20leverage%20the%20power%20of%20the%20bank?%22%20BP%20Podcast%20282%20biggerpockets.com\/show282%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;Once you figure out your why, then you will be able to set goals to support that why.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22Once%20you%20figure%20out%20your%20why,%20then%20you%20will%20be%20able%20to%20set%20goals%20to%20support%20that%20why.%22%20BP%20Podcast%20282%20biggerpockets.com\/show282%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;It&#8217;s more important to pick something than to get stuck choosing the right thing.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22It&#039;s%20more%20important%20to%20pick%20something%20than%20to%20get%20stuck%20choosing%20the%20right%20thing.%22%20BP%20Podcast%20282%20biggerpockets.com\/show282%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<li>&#8220;I want to live where I want to live and invest where it makes sense.&#8221; (<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/home?status=%22I%20want%20to%20live%20where%20I%20want%20to%20live%20and%20invest%20where%20it%20makes%20sense.%22%20BP%20Podcast%20282%20biggerpockets.com\/show282%20%40biggerpockets\" target=\"_blank\">Tweet This!<\/a>)<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Connect with Tim<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/users\/TimK12\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Tim&#8217;s BiggerPockets Profile<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/timmy.kelly.37\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Tim&#8217;s Facebook Profile<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/cpotimkellykhg\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Tim&#8217;s LinkedIn Profile<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/thetimothykelly\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Tim&#8217;s Instagram Profile<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/kellyhousinggroup.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Tim&#8217;s Website<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2>Connect with Jay<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/users\/jayhelms\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Jay&#8217;s BiggerPockets Profile<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/REIforTheW2\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Jay&#8217;s Facebook Group<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/helmsrei.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Jay&#8217;s Website<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>On this episode of The BiggerPockets Podcast, we sit down with two real estate investors (Jay Helms and Tim Kelly) who were attempting to build their business alone, but found they could do far more together.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":17340,"featured_media":117892,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[4565],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-99704","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-biggerpockets-podcast"],"acf":[],"comment_count":0,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/99704","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/17340"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=99704"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/99704\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/117892"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=99704"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=99704"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=99704"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}