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Julia Hagen
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Do I count my "Doors"?

Julia Hagen
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  • Lodi, CA
Posted Feb 19 2024, 21:02

I have three homes, some of which I've subdivided into individual units, one of which has an attached granny, one a remodeled garage studio, and another in which I just remodeled the master suite add-on into a large studio. I've heard investors use the term "doors" when referring to their portfolios. Like how many "doors" they have in total vs how many individual units. What is the best way for me to describe what I have? (Three homes with 10 individual units between them)

Thanks!!

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JD Martin
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JD Martin
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ModeratorReplied Feb 19 2024, 21:16
Quote from @Julia Hagen:

I have three homes, some of which I've subdivided into individual units, one of which has an attached granny, one a remodeled garage studio, and another in which I just remodeled the master suite add-on into a large studio. I've heard investors use the term "doors" when referring to their portfolios. Like how many "doors" they have in total vs how many individual units. What is the best way for me to describe what I have? (Three homes with 10 individual units between them)

Thanks!!

 Well, you could always go for "Nunya" as in " Nunya damn business" :) . Most people here would count that as 10 doors. But it's really a fairly meaningless brag term that tells no one the value or breadth of your portfolio.

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Becca F.
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Becca F.
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Replied Feb 20 2024, 03:22

I agree with JD on this. Every time I hear someone say they have "x amount" of doors, that tells you nothing about their portfolio. I've heard investors say "I have 5000 doors" and some of them are syndications. I started chasing doors and "cash flow" and I'm losing money and it's been a huge headache. I should have just stuck with my Class A properties (2 SFHs, one multi-unit co-owned) and value added and raised the rent instead of buying "affordable" Class Cs. 

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Chris Seveney
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Chris Seveney
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Replied Feb 20 2024, 03:44

@Julia Hagen

You would have ten doors.

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Alecia Loveless
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Alecia Loveless
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Replied Feb 20 2024, 09:16

@Julia Hagen The number of “doors” is only really a relative number for you to consider.

While I have 25 “doors”, my cash flow is such that I actually need about 45 “doors” at my current rate to be where I want to be financially and then to continue on from there.

At the same time I hear of others in different markets who say they have 6 doors and cash flow at the level I am at with my 25 doors because their rents are so much higher in big cities.

So it’s just a number for you to think about.

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Sam Yin
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Sam Yin
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Replied Feb 20 2024, 21:11

@Julia Hagen

If they are all permitted, then I would safely say 10 doors. Otherwise, it's 3.

But like some have said, it's really nunya, and it says nothing about Cash flow, equity, wealth, or FI.

With that said, it's up to you. As others have mentioned, there are those that are a bit vague and never truly reveal what their equity/stake is in a syndication. It's what ever makes you feel happy and right.

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Julia Hagen
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Julia Hagen
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Replied Feb 25 2024, 22:50

@JD Martin “Nunya”? 😂🤣😂😂😂. I LOVE that!!  I’ve never heard it b4. Is that why u (truly are) a Rock Star Extraordinaire w/14,283 votes and 9,003 posts but have 0 investments listed? Because it’s “Nun’a” anyone’s damn business?
🎸💯🎯 🤩

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Julia Hagen
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Julia Hagen
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Replied Feb 25 2024, 22:58

Hum…thank you @Becca F.. I am sorry about what’s going on w/ur investing! I’ve got one big house (w/4 “doors” haha) in the Napa Valley and two SRF’s (one w/attached studio) in Lodi (near Stockton).  I only mention this because I can see that ur from SF.  

It's just getting too expensive to keep going in California for myself, doesn't make sense. I'm looking at Texas, where u can buy a $280,000 3/2 SFR (that looks brand new) and get $2,500 a month in rent!! I've got a $500,000 3/2 SFR built in ‘03 only pulling $2,100 🤯😭 (and I verified those numbers w/a bunch of investors and agents that LIVE in Texas!)

Good luck, I think I’m about to ride off into the sunset wearing a cowboy hat to find me a ranch somewhere!! See ya’ll later 😜

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Julia Hagen
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Julia Hagen
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Replied Feb 25 2024, 23:00

@Chris Seveney thank you!!!  That clears up so much confusion for me ❤️🙏

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Julia Hagen
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Julia Hagen
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Replied Feb 25 2024, 23:01

@Alecia Loveless thank you my dear!! ❤️

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Julia Hagen
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Julia Hagen
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Replied Feb 25 2024, 23:06

@Sam Yin well…they are mostly permitted 😜Just kidding. Everything is permitted except my garage studio. I also subdivided the master bedroom suite off from the main house in my biggest SFR and it rents as a studio. So, that's legal and definitely qualifies as a good, cash flowing unit.
Thanks!!

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Guy Gimenez
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Guy Gimenez
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Replied Feb 26 2024, 06:21

Personally, it's no one's business how many doors you have unless you're seeking a partnership, loan, etc. I've had people tell me they "own 400 doors" and when pushed about it, they admit they have $50K in a syndication that owns the 400 doors. If I buy a gallon of milk at the corner store, that doesn't make me owner of a commercial property. Puffery is a sign of the times which is why it's best not to get involved in the nonsense at any level. Do your thing. Keep your business, your love life and your next move within a very small circle...and continue to create the life you want.  

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Julia Hagen
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Julia Hagen
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Replied Mar 17 2024, 05:07

@Becca F.. Thank you for your reply. I will take that as good advice for myself!!

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Julia Hagen
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Julia Hagen
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Replied Mar 17 2024, 05:11

@Guy Gimenez Well, if real estate doesn't work out for you you should consider journalism, or poetry, or motivational speaking!  You write beautifully. Your post was very inspiring. (400 doors from a $50K syndication? I would have had trouble not laughing out loud! 😆)

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Jake Handler
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Jake Handler
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Replied Mar 17 2024, 05:18

I recommend reading Small and Mighty Real Estate Investor.  Might change your view on the "doors" conversation.  Good luck!

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Chris Seveney
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Chris Seveney
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Replied Mar 17 2024, 05:20

@Julia Hagen

I own a share of blackstone.

Thus I own 60,000 doors.

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Nate Marshall
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Nate Marshall
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Replied Mar 17 2024, 08:50

I wouldn't count 3 or anywhere near that number as "doors". The doors thing is guru talk. Generally to pump up their sales pitch. And when you invest into syndications you own nothing. Like owning stock.

Leave the "doors" at the guru or sponsors "door". 

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Alecia Loveless
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Alecia Loveless
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Replied Mar 17 2024, 11:00

@Alecia Loveless I have another thought regarding this post for the original question.

I’ve been busy over the past 5-6 months thinking about how well I’ve been doing with my 25 doors and the amount of equity I’ve built up and planning and plotting how I can buy more doors and grow bigger.

I met with someone I am interviewing for a job that also owns real estate and he began a preliminary very cursory review of my portfolio and immediately stated that given the current market value of my portfolio and the number of "doors" that I had my CoC return really needed to be addressed before I considered purchasing any new properties because it was too low and my current level of cash flow needed to be looked at because he also felt that should be higher.

So this got me thinking about my portfolio and I came up with two immediate strategies to improve both my CoC return and my cash flow with just a nominal cash outlay.

However there are other things to be considered when thinking about one’s portfolio than just the number of “DOORS” that one has.

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V.G Jason
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V.G Jason
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Replied Mar 17 2024, 11:10

Focus on quality, not quantity. Scaling to a property count is foolish especially in this environment, scaling to portfolio value(while leveraged) is the key. 

Even doing CoC is such a poor metric, don't view hard assets as as day 1 cash or intrinsic value. Focus on the term, again, these are hard assets if it were intrinsic they would be swooped up. The market did that 8 years post recession aggressively, and it's only gotten tighter & harder now.

Sure you can get "creative" and all that ****, but I wonder if people are kidding themselves when they mention about making $200/mo cash flow-- it's wiped out with their water heater needing to be replaced or just a tenant turn. It's penny focused and dollar amiss. 

And for the most part, outside of this forum, it's probably best to keep  the portfolio size talk to oneself. It doesn't do any benefit letting someone know more about you. 

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Jessie Dillon
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Jessie Dillon
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Replied Mar 17 2024, 11:17

doors = units :) so i would say you have 10 doors or 10 units, / 3 properties. 'doors' is just like, investor slang for units, that i believe was born on this website lol. 

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Dan Rowley
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Dan Rowley
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Replied Mar 22 2024, 04:37

# of doors is generally for marketing purposes and I don't find much meaning in it, so take it with grain of salt.  Especially in syndications, where often those touting # of doors may not even be the primary GP managing the deal and it may represent 1-2% ownership of those doors.

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Nathan Gesner
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Nathan Gesner
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ModeratorReplied Mar 22 2024, 05:34

Door count is a method of looking bigger than we really are. I do the same. I have 12 properties with 33 doors, so guess which number I use? The important measurements are annual earnings and net worth.

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Tanner Lewis
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Tanner Lewis
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Replied Mar 22 2024, 08:19

When people talk "doors" in their portfolio, it is more of a credibility metric than anything. Typically, it just refers to the number of units/leases you have, not the number of tax parcels.