Who needs to pay a guru when you can just come on BP and be connected to great minds?

22 Replies

I will say I have spent a little bit of money under $500.00 i would say trying to learn about how to invest in real estate. But i can truly say I have learned a lot about real estate on this site. Has anyone else had a similar experience? I have even signed up for Pro despite feeling like the free version was good enough. 

Totally agree. Rod, best of luck with your investing endeavors!

@Rod Desinord

  there are in fact some very good Paid mentors or gurus in the US.. that many folks owe their success to.. I do business with a few... Those same folks know of BP and are on here infrequently but they spent the time and money to get to a position of very great success.

Can one get educated on BP for certain.. its just a different method.. and one that is passive.. you don't spend any money so you take it at your own speed.

Both can be the right choice for certain individuals.

If you have no money to hire a top trainer then BP for sure if fabulous for all the free advice.

However having a top trainer that you may pay 20 to 100k to over the course of a year or two and who will basically guide you to a successful business venture is also money very well spent.. but it is up to the person to follow through...

Weekend fire hose training events though are over priced in my mind... what I am talking about is mentors that take on 2 to 5 mentee's and your dealing directly with the trainer not a back office marketing company in Utah.

Yeah, mentors are definitely a great resource to learn fast! Bigger Pockets is great to. It is really about opening as many channels of learning as possible when you get started. 

I am 3 months into being a real estate investor and I already know a ton because I have read on Bigger pockets, paid thousands to a mentor with education audios and 24/7 phone access, and read a couple of books now. 

What I'm finding is it boils down to two VITAL things to make money. 

MARKETING and NEGOTIATING!!! 

If I can master these two things I know I can be successful. 

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :

@Rod Desinord

  there are in fact some very good Paid mentors or gurus in the US.. that many folks owe their success to.. I do business with a few... Those same folks know of BP and are on here infrequently but they spent the time and money to get to a position of very great success.

Can one get educated on BP for certain.. its just a different method.. and one that is passive.. you don't spend any money so you take it at your own speed.

Both can be the right choice for certain individuals.

If you have no money to hire a top trainer then BP for sure if fabulous for all the free advice.

However having a top trainer that you may pay 20 to 100k to over the course of a year or two and who will basically guide you to a successful business venture is also money very well spent.. but it is up to the person to follow through...

Weekend fire hose training events though are over priced in my mind... what I am talking about is mentors that take on 2 to 5 mentee's and your dealing directly with the trainer not a back office marketing company in Utah.

 All of this is true.  I think BP is a great place for filling in the blanks and clarification.  Also it can be a great place to get an idea of what is involved with many different strategies, so the new (and experienced) investor can figure out where to go from where they are at.

It isn't a shortcut to learning.  Many of those gurus got to where they are by not substituting piecemeal learning for true education.

Having said all of this, I think the combination Of a really good (not weekend quickie) Guru, and BP can be a great path for success.

@Michael Linquist

  you got it and sales skills are wholly under misunderstood and under appreciated.

You can have all the book learning Pod cast listening to  reading here. Paid mentor , but if your a wet noodle and can't present quality and close.. and you have no people skills at all this can be a very tough business.. unless you already have a lot of money and are just investing your money.. but if your looking to make a lot of money in RE then you need these sales skills, they are more important than the books skills.. great salesperson will out earn the PHD every day of the week.

I don't know for some reason i find Gurus and mentors to be different to me psychologically. I think Mentors are a very valuable asset. 

Originally posted by @Rod Desinord :

I don't know for some reason i find Gurus and mentors to be different to me psychologically. I think Mentors are a very valuable asset. 

 Gurus are what people who don't like mentors...call mentors.

I know multiple successful people that paid no guru tens of thousands of dollars. Also, most experiences with gurus I hear of (including multiple stories told here), rarely do I hear of them benefiting. In fact, they spend money and tend to gain nothing. I know some of this lies with the individual but I've not witnessed a track record of success. I haven't paid a dime but have gained astronomical degrees of knowledge from many other sources including on the job training, friends, and associates. I don't knock anyone's hustle but if I can self teach for free through multiple sources I just keep those funds to fund my deals............ 

@Mark Cruse

  you hit the nail on the head... ON the JOB training.. that is where one will gain the best tools to allow for success.. Every market in the US is unique or different. And as such its not one size fits all .. Its great to have basic concepts but then you have to use those concepts and adapt to the region your working in.

For instance I can buy property all over the mid west for no money down or purchase properties at 20 to 50% under ARV any day of the week in any multitudes of towns using the knowledge that I have.

But I could not take that same knowledge and roll into San Francisco and replicate what I can do in the mid west.

And that is were general RE training is no substitute for on the job training.

Both have a price to be paid and its putting into practice what is learnt.On the job training just tops it off

@Jay Hinrichs

But would you say that those people are not of the as long as you pay we will take your money variety?

Do any of them work on a success fee basis?

@Charles Worth

  don't believe I know any trainers that base their fee on success.. I know I certainly would not.  you never know if someone will take your advice or not.. will be motivated to . can learn the sales skills necessary etc etc.

I think of golf instruction... and specialty golf schools.. how many golfers can go to a weekend course and lower their handicap by 5 strokes.. or all of a sudden hit it 30 yards further.. but of course those that sell that instruction that is the claim.. and those specialty courses cost in the thousands and that's just to get better at a game.. So paying to learn how to create income is OK by me.. just need to find the right persons or company.

Same with learning here on BP... you can read golf digest and read all the tips and such but can you execute on the course.. some can most can't

Hopefully I can execute :)

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :

@Charles Worth

  don't believe I know any trainers that base their fee on success.. I know I certainly would not.  you never know if someone will take your advice or not.. will be motivated to . can learn the sales skills necessary etc etc.

I think of golf instruction... and specialty golf schools.. how many golfers can go to a weekend course and lower their handicap by 5 strokes.. or all of a sudden hit it 30 yards further.. but of course those that sell that instruction that is the claim.. and those specialty courses cost in the thousands and that's just to get better at a game.. So paying to learn how to create income is OK by me.. just need to find the right persons or company.

Same with learning here on BP... you can read golf digest and read all the tips and such but can you execute on the course.. some can most can't

 When you get into the success business you learn very quickly there are people who are willing to do what they need to succeed and those looking for a shortcut. For those that have been very successful to take a fee only if their students are successful is a waste of time. THey will only attract the students that want something for nothing or a free ride. You can give the exact same info to five different people and four will call it crap and one will make one million dollars with it, because he actually used it. i do some training stuff and most the people who buy, never even contact me and I offer coaching with it! 

Jay is right on. BP teaches you a lot, but it is also tough to weed through all the different opinions. The best mentors are local and will teach on while doing deals. 

If you have a lot of money to invest paying a mentor is possibly worthwhile. 

But if you're paying for instructions on how to raise your credit card limits so you can pay the guru. It probably was not a wise use of your established credit.

Originally posted by @Richard Dunlop :

If you have a lot of money to invest paying a mentor is possibly worthwhile. 

But if you're paying for instructions on how to raise your credit card limits so you can pay the guru. It probably was not a wise use of your established credit.

 THe number one sign that you are working with the wrong guru or mentor is they ask you to raise credit card limits. 

@Mark Ferguson

 and

@Jay Hinrichs

I understand what you are saying and I am not the point that I would ever be providing these services nor have I ever looked at buying them.

However,  the reason I made that comment is that if someone is only working with 3 or 4 people I assume they picked them carefully.  Further, if they are good enough to be a mentor I highly doubt that the amount that is able to be charged is enough to make a real difference in their lives or that it wouldn't be much more profitable to get paid on success fee considering you can always charge more on a variable structure and that the pool of buyers increases in quantity and quality. My own business (and your licensed realtor business as well) is mostly based on success fee and sure clients sometimes use that to their advantage or do not perform but that is why picking clients you do and don't want to work with is so improtant . 

@Mark Ferguson

@Charles Worth

Charles us poor brokers get abused something fierce until you learn to read buyers and sellers and have a certain amount of success to where you can pick and choose who you want to work with.

I have an associate who is not a frequent BP poster but I met him and his wife on BP and have met him in their hometown and had lunch with them.. They have one of the mentors that charges a lot of money ( their words) but only takes on a handful of students and gives them full on mentor coaching for an extended period of time .. these folks went from not knowing anything about how to run a RE investment company to being successful in 12 to 24 months.. they credit their paid mentor for their success... It happens more than one thinks but like we have all said it is finding that right fit... and mass media late night TV reality star's are not going to give you the one on one.. its simply a business that is run by marketing companies in Utah that are very good at what they do.. The Guru is nothing more than a figure head... Mentors are different. but even if they have not done a lot of their own as in personal investing.. if they have a Model that they can actually teach that others can utilize and succeed at and they charge for it who cares if they invest personally or not..

But I will say these folks are certainly in the minority.. And I have folks I have done business with over the years that have succeeded even with the Armando programs or Yancy one's not 100% of their students fail.. Same with BP not 100% of those that want to use BP as their sole source of information to get into this business will fail.. Some will succeed but its few that will reach great heights in the business regardless of how they learned the trade.

IN my mind those that started with Real Estate licenses and work up through the industry many times will be the biggest % of folks that succeed long term.

If I could double vote for Mark's post on CC limits, I would! I had NO idea until recently that 'gurus' did that. What a flaming red flag. 

Any education is only what you make of it--from formal schooling to real estate seminars.  But unlike a college degree, there are no jobs that will pay you more for having a certificate from a guru.

Pulling the trigger on your first investment property is not easy.  I see people spending lots of time and money on gurus, mentors, DVDs, etc and never pull the trigger.

I tell all newbies not to spend a penny on this stuff until they hire a real estate agent (at no cost to them) and buy a property.  Until they have this guttural experience, they are wasting their money and my time. 

On the other hand, I know a bunch of folks who have benefited greatly from paying experts for coaching after they've gotten a feel for the business and want to take it to the next level.

But if you've never done a deal, put your money into a duplex, not a strategy for buying a hundred of them.

Wm

Originally posted by @Charles Worth :

@Mark Ferguson

 and

@Jay Hinrichs

I understand what you are saying and I am not the point that I would ever be providing these services nor have I ever looked at buying them.

However,  the reason I made that comment is that if someone is only working with 3 or 4 people I assume they picked them carefully.  Further, if they are good enough to be a mentor I highly doubt that the amount that is able to be charged is enough to make a real difference in their lives or that it wouldn't be much more profitable to get paid on success fee considering you can always charge more on a variable structure and that the pool of buyers increases in quantity and quality. My own business (and your licensed realtor business as well) is mostly based on success fee and sure clients sometimes use that to their advantage or do not perform but that is why picking clients you do and don't want to work with is so improtant . 

 I do know some mentors who charge plus will take profits on deals their students do. It is not solely based on success. 

I guess real estate education is similar to parenting. (Disclosure: I am not a parent).

Babies are easier to create than real estate deals. Both are expensive but the latter may bring you more joy during years 12-17.

Your first 'baby' will initially require much attention. Changing diapers is like dealing with guru types. They both can be messy but fortunately, not all are full. 

After a good start, I found a string of educators with full diapers, so I focused on the factual, legal side of real estate and avoided the dream merchants. 

Additionally, I sought (and continue to seek) marketing education outside of the real estate community where it is less affected by the biases of the educator. 

There is definite value to spending money when I can measure the return. My first niche specific training was a foreclosure seminar I paid $297 to attend (in 1978). In 1995, I spent $5,000 with Jay Abraham and have made hundreds of thousands from that investment. This year I'm working directly with Perry Marshall and exoect I'll see similarly high returns. 

What makes this all work is that I have a deal flow. Like being a parent (I would guess) is that just talking about real estate investing, writing about it, thinking about it, wishing and dreaming doesn't count. Action, analyzing mistakes and missed opportunities, and closing are the only way to learn if your education is helping you succeed.

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