Newbie - Signing Agent Question
Hey guys! New to all of this and am still a little overwhelmed, haha. I did have a (hopefully simple) question though in hopes of some guidance. I was thinking of becoming a signing agent as a way to dip my toes into the real estate waters while I continue to soak up as much knowledge as I can. I was curious if anyone would recommend the National Notary Association's training package for this. It seems legit but I don't want to waste money if it isn't worth the cost.
Also, I live in Kentucky, which I learned is a state that requires an attorney to sign off on all sales. I was curious if this would severely limit my signing opportunities and make being a signing agent essentially useless.
Any insight provided would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
@Christopher Ewing Have you listened to the Biggerpockets money podcast talking about this? It was episode 74 I believe. I would start there if you haven’t!
- Rental Property Investor
- Bowling Green KY ~ Lexington, KY
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@Christopher Ewing I would like second what @Marcellus P McKinley said. You should follow his advice and listen to the Biggerpockets Money podcast episode 74 on that very thing.
Some states such as Georgia require you be an attorney to conduct real estate signings or have extra licenses such as a title producers license in Maryland to conduct signings. There are other states with similar circumstances as well but here is what I wrote for another post.
I got into being a Loan Signing Agent because of my refinance. There are a lot of agents in Orlando and the rest of the country because people think it is easy money. It sort of is, but a lot of work doesn't come directly from title companies. It comes from signing services which only pay between $70-$85 per signing while they get paid $125-$150 total on average and upwards of $400. A lot of title companies don't work with individual notaries because it's easier and cheaper to cattle call thousands of us, which make us compete against each other. Some people take signings for $35 thinking they are making money but don't because they don't account for vehicle expenses, paper, toner, etc.
After expenses, your profit only comes out to like $10/hour or so on most days because packages are upwards of 250 pages and you have to print two of them. You then have to scan some or all of the package before shipping it, then go to FedEx and mail it off. It takes about 4 hours per package if they require scan-backs and even longer with people who read the whole package before signing anything. If you miss something, you either take a pay cut or have to go back and fix it or both.
I started doing it part-time while in school and couldn't make it to most appointments because they were during the day when most people are at work. There are some weekend and evening calls but they don't pay enough to deal with all of the requirements, including going to a staffed FedEx location to mail the package the following day.
Is there any required certifications beyond just being a Notary?
- You MUST have an NNA certification that costs between $65-$170 per year. You MUST have errors and omissions insurance which costs between $100-$200 per year as well. You also need to have your notary public commission which is about $100 per four years.
How can you get started?
- You need a laser printer capable of printing legal sized documents and scanning them which can cost upwards of $500 if not more. You have to sign up with hundreds, if not thousands, of signing services just to get a few jobs. Like I said above, title companies will rarely call you directly unless you've been working for years as an LSA so you have to depend on signing services. You have to pay to sign up with different notary websites to get in their directory (there are only 3 good ones) which cost about $150-$200/year.
Should I go on my own or seek employment with a Title/Mortgage Office?
- Most offices have their own hourly employees who perform closings as part of their regular jobs. LSAs are mainly for companies without local offices such as national companies. Those title companies with offices rarely send out mobile agents because people want to save that $125-$400 on their closing costs.
Is it even worth it?
- Not really unless there is a major uptick in mortgages and closings. If you get to a closing and the borrowers refuse to sign or the mortgage doesn't close, you don't get paid even though you have paid for the gas, time, paper, toner, and other expenses. Sometimes the companies will pay you like $20 instead of the full price which doesn't cover your expenses.
Based on the link below, KY is an attorney only state.
@Robert Goldman, would you say that those results/issues are based on your location, or is that what you have observed from multiple places/opinions from others? I admittedly was intrigued from that podcast episode and I appreciate your candor about it.
Additionally, does the job confer any “knowledge benefits”? Do you feel more knowledgable about loans or the closing process? I was thinking in any case it would potentially expose me to that world while also making (not much, from the sounds of it haha!) some money on the side. Any thoughts on that?
Originally posted by @Marcellus P McKinley:
@Robert Goldman, would you say that those results/issues are based on your location, or is that what you have observed from multiple places/opinions from others? I admittedly was intrigued from that podcast episode and I appreciate your candor about it.
Additionally, does the job confer any “knowledge benefits”? Do you feel more knowledgable about loans or the closing process? I was thinking in any case it would potentially expose me to that world while also making (not much, from the sounds of it haha!) some money on the side. Any thoughts on that?
It’s from multiple opinions from all over the country. There are Facebook groups full of people that spend money to become notaries, then LSAs, and ask where the work is because it’s sparse. You have to spend weeks, if not months, signing up for hundreds of signing services that 99% of won’t even contact you with a job. People who have been doing it for years are mostly steady but part timers aren’t getting paid well and jobs are sparse.
If you pay $170 for the NNA NSA course, you’ll learn briefly about the closing process but not enough to benefit.
Most of the closings you do are with people who are financially illiterate and often times don’t really know what they are signing and expect you to explain it to them. It’s frustrating to them and agents because they waited to ask in person questions to an agent who cannot answer them. As a notary or NSA, you CANNOT explain anything to them except a general description of a document or where to find things such as the rates, terms, etc because that would be considered illegally practicing law. On top of that, if you say something wrong, you can be liable for civil damages on top of criminal charges.
I’ve had one signing with an investor, who is also a full time accountant with a government contractor, and he explained his financing to me because it was different. He kind of blew my mind but he said that his interest rate changes every day based on someplace in London essentially. That’s what got me into looking at RE investing and was the only educational part of work I’ve done.
So I’ve been doing this now for 2+ years and average about $5K per month. Any questions feel free to reach out. It really is easy money.IMO.