Moving to NYC, How should we invest our money in real estate?
Hello everyone and thanks to all for creating an awesome community on Bigger pockets.
Me and my partner are moving from London England to New York City in roughly one year for her work. She works in investment banking and earns a very good salary. I am currently working as a real estate agent in London and will do the same in New York but will of course be starting over as I will need to get licensed and accustom myself to a completely different process. Essentially we will have a guaranteed income of $200K to start but this will be more once I begin earning an income as well.
We have always talked about getting into real estate investing and since we will be now selling our London property, we want to start investing in New York rather quickly. I lived in New York for 4 years before moving to London so I generally have a good understanding of the city.
We will be coming to New York with roughly $1,000,000 in cash that we will be putting into property. The rest of the purchase will be made with as much mortgage money as banks are willing to lend. From my understanding, we are likely to receive a much higher mortgage when purchasing a BTL than a live in landlord mortgage.
The big question for me is, do we purchase a multifamily townhouse in an NYC Burrough and be live in landlords? or do we find a few good investment properties or an apartment building outside of the city to purchase?
We are torn between being a bit more aggressive investors and having to rent in manhattan/Brooklyn or owning our own townhouse with say three units and having the two extra units support our mortgage payments.
At the end of the day, we are just trying to get as far ahead as possible like anyone else.
We are also both youngish professionals with no dependants.
Really looking for peoples opinions on what they would do if they were in my position.
Thanks to all who take the time to read and reply!
I would never invest in New York City. The property is expensive and the legal environment will make your life difficult if things go wrong. I would be looking for out of state options.
What are your goals? Not what you want to invest in, rather what do you want to get back out of your investments and what do you want to bring to the table?
@Account Closed thank you for your interesting and detailed post. My fiancé and I have house hacked a two family townhouse in the South Bronx late last year after owning our individual condos. We have found that the demand for rentals is substantial here so you can pick and choose which candidate you will have in your building making being a live in landlord quite easy.
There are obviously some horror stories from some landlords but from my experiencing in the real estate leasing world, as long as you take your time to choose a good candidate you don’t have too much to worry about. Happy to discuss more, as I have been a real estate broker in the city for nine years and have seen numerous tenant/ landlord scenarios.
I'd go for a live-in 3 or 4 family bldg. Look for properties that have the best commute for your wife in/out of city. South Bronx, Brooklyn & Queens all have such areas. The closer the proximity to work, the easier it is for her to uber home when working late. Subways are not safe these days, especially late.
You'd also probably get the best mortgage terms/rates if you're live-in owner. With $1M you should be able to get something good. There are many opportunities for under $2M and if you do 50% financing, you'll even make money from your rentals on a monthly basis. If you put 20-25% down,you could get a 2nd bldg.
Another great benefit of living in one of the units is that you'll never need to worry about how that unit is being taken care of and if rent will be covered. Otherwise NYC is tenant friendly and anti-landlord. Any tenant can potentially be a huge problem.
Good luck and don't hesitate to reach out if you have any specific questions.
If you can get a 4 unit and a basement, that would be ideal and create major cash flow and equity creation, plus you can not worry about a property manager and boost your yield.
Please do keep in mind that although cash on cash returns may be paltry as a relative percentage, absolute dollars may be comparable.
Moreover, the majority of your returns over the long run (10-30 years) will come in the form of appreciation, principal paydown or loan and tax benefits.
You can potentially opt for FHA - despite all your cash. Keep that aside for ancillary investments. Due to the limited equity with FHA, these can be tremendous. For example, a 2% price appreciation on a 3.5% down payment would be a 57% return on appreciation alone. A 5% price appreciation would be 143% return year over year. Now run the same exercise for the principal paydown and factor in some cash flow / tax benefits on the side.
You cannot get returns anywhere near this in the stock market or any other alternative with such certainty and low volatility.
Hi @Account Closed! Congrats to both you and your partner on making the big decision to move to NYC and begin real estate investing. I have a few cousins in London that have also looked into investing in NYC but decided against it since NYC is not a cashflow market. Regardless of whether you are a live-in landlord or BTL, the NYC market is primarily an appreciation market.
My question to you is, what sort of network do you have here? Was it a long time ago when you were in NYC? I ask because both of you could set yourself up for success by first starting with making connections in real estate here. It works out for you since you're going to (hopefully) become an agent in NYC.
There's enough bad deals you to sink your money into, and enough brokers that will encourage you to move on a deal regardless of how it plays out for you because they'll disappear after it's closed.
Shoot me a DM whenever you're ready, happy to point you in the right direction if you're up for a chat.
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Broker New York (#10401359681)
- 929-349-8042
- http://www.ClosedByMo.com
- [email protected]
@Taylor L. Hi Taylor,
Thanks for your response. I agree with your statement about New York not being an ideal location for property investing but I also would be more nervous about investing in something which is far from where I am living. I really wouldn’t want to own something more than 1 - 1 1/2 hours door to door. Especially with a first real investment property and the surprises I am sure will come with it.
If I were to invest most or all of the money into strictly investment properties I would definitely be looking at Connecticut and New Jersey as places to invest in. Whereas the live in landlord townhouse I would be much pickier with location of course.
The end goals for me at the moment would be to grow a large portfolio of properties. I definitely plan to own small to medium sized commercial apartment buildings 5-25 units and hopefully a few of them. The current plan is to settle in nEw York, possibly stay forever as the partner is committed to the career in finance. I see multi unit properties as a long term hold 10+ years in which I fix up units when they are vacant to hopefully appreciate the rent. I was personally leaning towards focusing directly on strictly investment properties off the start but just torn because I currently live in a property I own and don’t love the idea of going back into rented. Particularly in New York where terrible properties will rent for 4K+ per month.
I definitely plan to be a 50 - 100 unit investor if not more in the long run.
@andrew
@Andrew Jennings Freerks Hey Andrew. Thanks for the response and for sharing your experience with the Bronx. Happy to be connected and or future discussion.
Any reason in particular you decided to house hack in the Bronx versus looking further out and potentially getting more units?
Hi Peter. Yes definitely! if we decide to go the route of townhouse a minimum of three units would be necessary.
Safety is a definite concern and not something to take lightly. I lived in a beautiful brownstone in crown heights for three years. It was a large building that had three unit, one of which was a 2200 square foot split level. As much as this would be absolutely ideal for me, Crown heights could be a bit dodgy at night and I’m not sure how I would feel with my partner coming home late every evening as she does work the long hours! She will also be based at Hudson Yards which is a good distance from Brooklyn.
Architecture wise I have always preferred harlem or brooklyns buildings. My ideal would be a small two bedroom flat at garden level that we live in with three one or two bedroom units above.
But the question for me is if financially I will be happier in five years from purchasing a live in building or if I would be happier for buying more units with better cash flow outside of the city….
@Alexander Szikla Hey Alex, thanks for connecting and for the response. Much appreciated.
I have looked into the FHA but I must admit, not more than a few YouTube videos. I would definitely sit with a broker when the time comes and discuss my best options. I just figured that with the price of properties in New York, if I am going to buy something I am happy to live in and also good enough sized to have a few extra units. I would need as much deposit as I can get.
Harlem is great too. I have a condo on 137th and Frederick Douglas Blvd on an absolutely beautiful tree lined street. BTW I actually live in NY but have begun investing in TN for the long run. I've been able to figure out how to manage remotely with occasional visits. Good luck.