WTF is wrong with investors these days?
Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votesWTF is wrong with investors these days?
Most Popular Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votesEngelo Good Morning !
I would like to take a stab at this.
I suspect a lot of these folks reaching out to you read BP forums.
And such they like the thought of infinite returns and are OK with max leverage etc.
So keep in mind BP folks are reading the BRRR books and building their Core 4 which has been coined by the folks who man the podcast and wrote a book on remote BRRR ( one of the absolute Riskiest endeavors one can take in real estate by the way).
So to that extent they are reaching out to you to build the Core 4 you just happen to have all 4 of the Core under one roof.
This IMHO is why your getting calls like this. Or e mail requests like this.
Your thoughts ?
261 Replies
- 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
Quote from @AJ Exner:
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
Quote from @AJ Exner:
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
So I get investors reaching out to me everyday and it goes like this:
"Hi, I know you offer turnkey properties and property management and am interested in the Toledo market, I don't want to buy turnkey but was hoping you could help me find a deal.
Also, do you have any contractor and lender referrals?
I'd also love to work with your property management company"
Diplomacy left me a long time ago so how would you guys reply?
Seems like to me that everyone wants something for nothing nowadays and nobody is willing to put in the work or to pay the margin for someone else that is willing to do the work...
Folks want to "own a monkey", play with the monkey, but not "carry the monkey" or clean it's S#@% when it does one hehe
I guess next time I go to McDonalds, I'll ask them for organic burger buns or where I can find them, I'll bring my own meat paddy and potatoes, get them to make a Big Mac meal for me and maybe I throw some change their way haha
How about those analogies above... lol
Have a great weekend guys and much success with your investing đ
Just had a pretty good one of these the other day. Found a lender that worked around some pretty big implications, helped manage their entity, switched lenders for them when an implication came up, took flack from realtors, got extensions, and then when we got them to closing they asked why we had a feeâŠ
Its interesting that we talk about the Core 4 and building a team, but the folks that I see who do the best understand that to sustain the C4 that it needs to be worth everyoneâs time.
Coming out of last year and how tough it was in REI, I think its going to be a lot of resetting of expectations with clients, at least from what I've seen so far this year.
Wow mate,
Thatâs gut wrenching
When something like that happens, it still stings me to this day and Iâve seen and heard it all over 12 years of running various RE businesses.
Never took S#%@ from investors and never will but the S#%@ still does sting to this day ehhh
Has cost me millions but worth the price for not having to kiss A$$
Life is too short for that đ
You are not wrong!
Glad its not just me though, Iâve learned over my professional life that knowing your value and being confident in that is both a value and a skill.
Iâm getting too old to mess with that kind of stuff.
Here here mate. Too old and and tired to deal with privileged behavior haha đ
to Old ? your barely mid 30s dude LOL try born in the mid 50s :) - Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes2y
Quote from @Nate Marshall:
They have been guru'd. Over guru'd. I would even say they have been Pace'd!Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
So I get investors reaching out to me everyday and it goes like this:
"Hi, I know you offer turnkey properties and property management and am interested in the Toledo market, I don't want to buy turnkey but was hoping you could help me find a deal.
Also, do you have any contractor and lender referrals?
I'd also love to work with your property management company"
Diplomacy left me a long time ago so how would you guys reply?
Seems like to me that everyone wants something for nothing nowadays and nobody is willing to put in the work or to pay the margin for someone else that is willing to do the work...
Folks want to "own a monkey", play with the monkey, but not "carry the monkey" or clean it's S#@% when it does one hehe
I guess next time I go to McDonalds, I'll ask them for organic burger buns or where I can find them, I'll bring my own meat paddy and potatoes, get them to make a Big Mac meal for me and maybe I throw some change their way haha
How about those analogies above... lol
Have a great weekend guys and much success with your investing đ
Hahahaha love it
- Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes2y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
Quote from @AJ Exner:
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
Quote from @AJ Exner:
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
So I get investors reaching out to me everyday and it goes like this:
"Hi, I know you offer turnkey properties and property management and am interested in the Toledo market, I don't want to buy turnkey but was hoping you could help me find a deal.
Also, do you have any contractor and lender referrals?
I'd also love to work with your property management company"
Diplomacy left me a long time ago so how would you guys reply?
Seems like to me that everyone wants something for nothing nowadays and nobody is willing to put in the work or to pay the margin for someone else that is willing to do the work...
Folks want to "own a monkey", play with the monkey, but not "carry the monkey" or clean it's S#@% when it does one hehe
I guess next time I go to McDonalds, I'll ask them for organic burger buns or where I can find them, I'll bring my own meat paddy and potatoes, get them to make a Big Mac meal for me and maybe I throw some change their way haha
How about those analogies above... lol
Have a great weekend guys and much success with your investing đ
Just had a pretty good one of these the other day. Found a lender that worked around some pretty big implications, helped manage their entity, switched lenders for them when an implication came up, took flack from realtors, got extensions, and then when we got them to closing they asked why we had a feeâŠ
Its interesting that we talk about the Core 4 and building a team, but the folks that I see who do the best understand that to sustain the C4 that it needs to be worth everyoneâs time.
Coming out of last year and how tough it was in REI, I think its going to be a lot of resetting of expectations with clients, at least from what I've seen so far this year.
Wow mate,
Thatâs gut wrenching
When something like that happens, it still stings me to this day and Iâve seen and heard it all over 12 years of running various RE businesses.
Never took S#%@ from investors and never will but the S#%@ still does sting to this day ehhh
Has cost me millions but worth the price for not having to kiss A$$
Life is too short for that đ
You are not wrong!
Glad its not just me though, Iâve learned over my professional life that knowing your value and being confident in that is both a value and a skill.
Iâm getting too old to mess with that kind of stuff.
Here here mate. Too old and and tired to deal with privileged behavior haha đ
to Old ? your barely mid 30s dude LOL try born in the mid 50s :)Haha
You are like a fine vintage Penfolds mate
I went hard and fast early on so it made me age quicker
Granted, never been better looking or fitter than now haha đ
- Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes2y
I've got an offer for you. You find me a deal, a contractor to fix it up, a lender to fund 100% of the project, and a free project manager, and I will give your company a #hashtag for my 6 Instagram followers. You can't beat that kind of exposure!
- Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes2y
Quote from @Nick C.:
I've got an offer for you. You find me a deal, a contractor to fix it up, a lender to fund 100% of the project, and a free project manager, and I will give your company a #hashtag for my 6 Instagram followers. You can't beat that kind of exposure!
Hahaha
Good one mate lol
Here is my counter
Meet me at my office so I can slap you 6 times haha
Need to get myself a misdemeanor this year
My background is too clean and I donât like it
Defeats the purpose of being 6ft 3, 230pounds
Only problem is I need to learn how to fight
Haha đ
- Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes2y
Quote from @Steve K.:
They don't have any money for the down payment and want to find a property for "$0 down, creatively financed" but at the same time they'll pay $10k for a lying guru to blow smoke up their ***.
Youâre forgetting the $30,000 âexclusive mastermindâ group and the pointless SDIRA along with the irrevocable trust used for no assets hahahaBy the way, up the limit on your credit cards because itâs only 30% API and as soon as you make money with the turnkey dog S#%@ property I sell you, you can pay the credit card back haha
A few folks just got done with those scheme
$50m fine
Small fine for how much cheese they made⊠- 2ySamuel CoronadoPro MemberInvestor · Huntsville, AL · Member since 2016 · 334 posts · 181 votes
I agree that they'll get what they pay for when they ask someone to help them find a deal. When they pay for nothing, they get nothing.
On the other hand, I'm very quick to spread the word of my contractors info and any lender referrals I may have. The contractor decides whether or not they want to work with a new investor obviously. I don't think they're going to do net 60 or net 90 day invoices with a few draws for them like they do me though. haha. Lenders are a dime a dozen and the whole industry is hurting right now because all the freshest MLOs washed out last year but there's still a lot more than there honestly should be to carry a good commission split among all the people.
To answer your question, I would say the following:
"No, I will not help you. All the resources are on the podcast or books already. Here are the people I use for lending based on the asset (land, MHP, conventional mutifam, commercial, etc). Here are the people I use for contracting (lawyer, plumber, electrician, punch list guy, etc). If you are interested in paid coaching, I charge $x per hour minimum of 3 hours. Charged up front. Thank you. Please reach out to my business development team at ###-###-####."
Then all responses stop. lol - Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes2y
Quote from @Samuel Coronado:
I agree that they'll get what they pay for when they ask someone to help them find a deal. When they pay for nothing, they get nothing.
On the other hand, I'm very quick to spread the word of my contractors info and any lender referrals I may have. The contractor decides whether or not they want to work with a new investor obviously. I don't think they're going to do net 60 or net 90 day invoices with a few draws for them like they do me though. haha. Lenders are a dime a dozen and the whole industry is hurting right now because all the freshest MLOs washed out last year but there's still a lot more than there honestly should be to carry a good commission split among all the people.
To answer your question, I would say the following:
"No, I will not help you. All the resources are on the podcast or books already. Here are the people I use for lending based on the asset (land, MHP, conventional mutifam, commercial, etc). Here are the people I use for contracting (lawyer, plumber, electrician, punch list guy, etc). If you are interested in paid coaching, I charge $x per hour minimum of 3 hours. Charged up front. Thank you. Please reach out to my business development team at ###-###-####."
Then all responses stop. lol
All good and great mate but it took us 10+ years to find the right crews that we keep busy with our operation. So, offering them to just anyone and everyone will slow down our operation so unfortunately just freely offering our resources isn't feasible.
Not comparing us to Apple haha but if someone wanted to build an iPhone themselves, I doubt Apple would give them contact details to their supplier in China or bank contacts in Ireland to avoid US taxes lol - 2yDon KonipolBusiness MemberInvestor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
While most of the posts here are true, we need to step back and look at it a DIFFERENT wayâŠ
The people (wanna be investors) weâre talking about are people trying to go for the American Dream of self sufficiency, independence, and financial success. For that alone they deserve our time - theyâre not trying to tear down capitalism and substitute âStalinist socialismâ like so many other misguided others.
The fact that theyâre CLUELESS about how a free market economy works; that theyâre unable to differentiate between real education and a âcon manâ mentorship; that they believe everyone owes them; and that they donât have a clue about risk, return, capital, labor, or any of the other basic economic concepts is more of an indictment of an educational system run for, and by people with a leftist agenda. So, theyâre âeasy pickensâ for the first âsnake oilâ salesman offering a one stop easy formula for success.
What Iâd like to tell them is that to have any shot at investing success they need to get REAL EDUCATION. For real estate that includes (1) principles of real estate (2) real estate law (3) real estate investment (4) real estate finance. Then theyâre well advised to work in the real estate industry to gain hands on experience and (hopefully) be able to save part of their earnings to have some capital to invest. But almost nobody wants to hear that when they can hit their credit card for $40k and have individual guidance step by step to obtaining wealth, AND be part of a fun loving, prospering group of like minded people.
So, it turns out that the real service provided by the gurus is weeding out the vast majority of people that fail and give up from the small minority that fail and donât give up; instead those seek out REAL real estate and investment knowledge and try again.
Forty years ago we had gurus, the difference was that the gurus then werenât anywhere near as polished, their sales/marketing system wasnât any where near as refined, and that the most they ever hit you for was âa complete system represented by 3 workbooks and 24 cassette tapesâ valued and sold nationally for $999 but if you order in the next 24 hours you can have all this for $499â. Oh yeah, also there was often SOME value in their offering as many used âfillerâ consisting of reproductions of parts of real estate textbooks used in college classes. Plus, those days we had a few gurus that actually were well worth the money they charged and did provide usable, and valuable information, insight, and perspective. Amongst these were Jimmy Napier, William Nickerson and Joe Land. But, that was a lifetime ago. - Investor · South Florida · Member since 2020 · 36 posts · 30 votes2y
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Michael Smythe:
Totally feel you man!
Newbies are looking for free everything:
- Education about RE investing
- Software for PM and accounting
- Money!
- Property Management: we laugh about this one!The shocking part about it is how ignorant and lazy they are about RE Investing, but someone, somewhere hired them and is actually paying them to do something!
Some of them actually have successful careers, but are totally clueless about learning RE Investing.
Just remember, a fool and their money are soon parted.
BTW: we're always figuring out polite responses that either get them to pay us or make them go away - either way, we win!
Why do you need to be polite about it?
People are always asking experienced investors to give back and help out the newbies. The very best way to help someone is to tell them their stupid behavior is stupid. Don't shield them from how stupid their behavior is. They may not thank you, but you helped them. Makes you a saint in my book.
This probably sounds like a joke to some people, but it is honestly so true. It was perspective changing for me personally.
I posted about one of my properties here on BP (warehouse), but the full story is that I actually bought 2 of them. Well, one of these warehouses that I purchased came with a BAD tenant. Kind of a scary dude who was always late/short on rent, didnt do ho upkeep on the unti etc. I looked left and right trying to find someone that would help me but in the end, it was up to me to handle the situation (or hire a good PM, which I was too stupid at the time to do) Well instead of dealing with the issue, i turned around and sold the property for basically no gain. Now that property has almost doubled in value and can rent for 150% more then it was renting at the time i purchased đ«
When I told that story to a RE friend of mine, looking for support and maybe a pat on the backâŠhe literally called me an idiot and a P@$& for not dealing with it⊠that convo changed the way I looked at this BUSINESS
- Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes2y
Yeah, it's like the advertising from the guys who promise to run an amazon store for you...
FREE LUNCH HERE!!
- 2yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
On the flip side, there's the people who sell turnkey, real estate agents/brokers, PMs, guru's on here that promise the world but deliver terribly. So for every investor that wants everything, for free. There's also a guy that touts themselves as the best in the industry, and delivers trash.
Look at 99.9% of the agents on this board. Calling them trash would be a compliment for them. Look at any thread on this board that starts with someone "new", you have Columbus appearing before you snap your fingers. For all the "investors" that want everything free and up front, there's tons more predatory on the other side. The same thing the "investors" come here for, are the same things you shills advertise. Careful what you advertise.
- Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes2y
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
So I get investors reaching out to me everyday and it goes like this:
"Hi, I know you offer turnkey properties and property management and am interested in the Toledo market, I don't want to buy turnkey but was hoping you could help me find a deal.
Also, do you have any contractor and lender referrals?
I'd also love to work with your property management company"
Diplomacy left me a long time ago so how would you guys reply?
Seems like to me that everyone wants something for nothing nowadays and nobody is willing to put in the work or to pay the margin for someone else that is willing to do the work...
Folks want to "own a monkey", play with the monkey, but not "carry the monkey" or clean it's S#@% when it does one hehe
I guess next time I go to McDonalds, I'll ask them for organic burger buns or where I can find them, I'll bring my own meat paddy and potatoes, get them to make a Big Mac meal for me and maybe I throw some change their way haha
How about those analogies above... lol
Have a great weekend guys and much success with your investing đ
We receive a lot of requests for referrals to our lenders, contractors, and handymen..... In the first conversation, we tell potential new clients that the contractors we work with will go look at a property for or with you, but the first time you use them "PAY THEM" for their time. They will look at properties for us without payments because we are repeat customers putting food on their table. And if you become a repeat customer they may do the same for you.
- 2yNicholas L.Pro MemberFlipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
i think that a major contributing factor is that new investors start with the older BP content from the beginning - Brandon Turner in 2016 - where you buy any property on the MLS, cash flow $250 a month, and then it goes up 45% over the next 3 years.
the current content has moved away from this. i call it the "pivot." but the older content is still there.
Brandon even said on a podcast with Ryan Pineda a few months ago that rental properties are a bad investment. he meant for instant cash flow. but he said those words! direct quote.
- 2yNicholas L.Pro MemberFlipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
100%. i think that has gotten slightly better in the past few months - it was utterly out of control for the past few years. but yes, everyone in California basically gets told that Ohio is a can't lose investor's paradise.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes2y
Quote from @V.G Jason:
On the flip side, there's the people who sell turnkey, real estate agents/brokers, PMs, guru's on here that promise the world but deliver terribly. So for every investor that wants everything, for free. There's also a guy that touts themselves as the best in the industry, and delivers trash.
Look at 99.9% of the agents on this board. Calling them trash would be a compliment for them. Look at any thread on this board that starts with someone "new", you have Columbus appearing before you snap your fingers. For all the "investors" that want everything free and up front, there's tons more predatory on the other side. The same thing the "investors" come here for, are the same things you shills advertise. Careful what you advertise.
Uhoh, we got a Columbus keyword alert. It's over now.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes2y
Quote from @Nicholas L.:
100%. i think that has gotten slightly better in the past few months - it was utterly out of control for the past few years. but yes, everyone in California basically gets told that Ohio is a can't lose investor's paradise.
Did somebody say Ohio?
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes2y
Quote from @Nicholas L.:
i think that a major contributing factor is that new investors start with the older BP content from the beginning - Brandon Turner in 2016 - where you buy any property on the MLS, cash flow $250 a month, and then it goes up 45% over the next 3 years.
the current content has moved away from this. i call it the "pivot." but the older content is still there.
Brandon even said on a podcast with Ryan Pineda a few months ago that rental properties are a bad investment. he meant for instant cash flow. but he said those words! direct quote.
Market pivots, so content needs to pivot too. The 2024 housing market is a lot different than 2016 housing market was.
- 2yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
@Engelo Rumora Great post! It is the same thing that I see/hear constantly. "Is there an App for ______? "
Every one wants an APP to do everything for them. Tell them what a property is worth, how much it'll take to fix it up and what it will sell for....Everything. I expect I'll soon be asked if there is an APP that will actually do the renovation, or even better add a second story......? A contractor APP.....
AI, Robots and Apps.....let's not do anything any more......sigh.....
Good news is that this will open up the world to be taken over by people like those here.
- 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Don Konipol:
While most of the posts here are true, we need to step back and look at it a DIFFERENT wayâŠ
The people (wanna be investors) weâre talking about are people trying to go for the American Dream of self sufficiency, independence, and financial success. For that alone they deserve our time - theyâre not trying to tear down capitalism and substitute âStalinist socialismâ like so many other misguided others.
The fact that theyâre CLUELESS about how a free market economy works; that theyâre unable to differentiate between real education and a âcon manâ mentorship; that they believe everyone owes them; and that they donât have a clue about risk, return, capital, labor, or any of the other basic economic concepts is more of an indictment of an educational system run for, and by people with a leftist agenda. So, theyâre âeasy pickensâ for the first âsnake oilâ salesman offering a one stop easy formula for success.
What Iâd like to tell them is that to have any shot at investing success they need to get REAL EDUCATION. For real estate that includes (1) principles of real estate (2) real estate law (3) real estate investment (4) real estate finance. Then theyâre well advised to work in the real estate industry to gain hands on experience and (hopefully) be able to save part of their earnings to have some capital to invest. But almost nobody wants to hear that when they can hit their credit card for $40k and have individual guidance step by step to obtaining wealth, AND be part of a fun loving, prospering group of like minded people.
So, it turns out that the real service provided by the gurus is weeding out the vast majority of people that fail and give up from the small minority that fail and donât give up; instead those seek out REAL real estate and investment knowledge and try again.
Forty years ago we had gurus, the difference was that the gurus then werenât anywhere near as polished, their sales/marketing system wasnât any where near as refined, and that the most they ever hit you for was âa complete system represented by 3 workbooks and 24 cassette tapesâ valued and sold nationally for $999 but if you order in the next 24 hours you can have all this for $499â. Oh yeah, also there was often SOME value in their offering as many used âfillerâ consisting of reproductions of parts of real estate textbooks used in college classes. Plus, those days we had a few gurus that actually were well worth the money they charged and did provide usable, and valuable information, insight, and perspective. Amongst these were Jimmy Napier, William Nickerson and Joe Land. But, that was a lifetime ago." Don Konipol " the EF Hutton of BP.. when Don speaks people stop and listen . Well Said Don !!
- Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes2y
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
Quote from @Michael Smythe:
Totally feel you man!When investors think the PM is a bank and will happily go into overdraft until they top up their maintenance reserve account.
I have an idea, we can do the above and act as a bank as long as I am allowed to take an investors girlfriend for a date if they arenât in the mood to take her? đ
if allowed i would do a pm job lol
- Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes2y
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
@Engelo Rumora Great post! It is the same thing that I see/hear constantly. "Is there an App for ______? "
Every one wants an APP to do everything for them. Tell them what a property is worth, how much it'll take to fix it up and what it will sell for....Everything. I expect I'll soon be asked if there is an APP that will actually do the renovation, or even better add a second story......? A contractor APP.....
AI, Robots and Apps.....let's not do anything any more......sigh.....
Good news is that this will open up the world to be taken over by people like those here.
can you imagine how the world and real estate investing would be when genZ started becoming 42 years old, this is why they import immigrant Bruce, because their mind is not corrupted yet by AI,handyroboman and apps LOL LOL
- Real Estate Consultant · Evergreen, CO · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 723 votes2y
Quote from @Steve K.:
They don't have any money for the down payment and want to find a property for "$0 down, creatively financed" but at the same time they'll pay $10k for a lying guru to blow smoke up their ***.
See this everyday.
- Real Estate Consultant · Evergreen, CO · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 723 votes2y
Quote from @Steve K.:
They don't have any money for the down payment and want to find a property for "$0 down, creatively financed" but at the same time they'll pay $10k for a lying guru to blow smoke up their ***.
See this every second of everyday.
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