WTF is wrong with investors these days?

General Real Estate Investing
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WTF is wrong with investors these days?

Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes

So I get investors reaching out to me everyday and it goes like this:

"Hi, I know you offer turnkey properties and property management and am interested in the Toledo market, I don't want to buy turnkey but was hoping you could help me find a deal.

Also, do you have any contractor and lender referrals?

I'd also love to work with your property management company"

Diplomacy left me a long time ago so how would you guys reply?

Seems like to me that everyone wants something for nothing nowadays and nobody is willing to put in the work or to pay the margin for someone else that is willing to do the work...

Folks want to "own a monkey", play with the monkey, but not "carry the monkey" or clean it's S#@% when it does one hehe

I guess next time I go to McDonalds, I'll ask them for organic burger buns or where I can find them, I'll bring my own meat paddy and potatoes, get them to make a Big Mac meal for me and maybe I throw some change their way haha

How about those analogies above... lol

Have a great weekend guys and much success with your investing 🙏

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
2y

Engelo Good Morning !

I would like to take a stab at this.

I suspect a lot of these folks reaching out to you read BP forums.

And such they like the thought of infinite returns and are OK with max leverage etc.

So keep in mind BP folks are reading the BRRR books and building their Core 4 which has been coined by the folks who man the podcast and wrote a book on remote BRRR ( one of the absolute Riskiest endeavors one can take in real estate by the way).

So to that extent they are reaching out to you to build the Core 4 you just happen to have all 4 of the Core under one roof.

This IMHO is why your getting calls like this. Or e mail requests like this.

Your thoughts ?

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  • Nicholas L.Pro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y

    @James Wise

    i totally agree!  the pivot was warranted.  i'm just saying, when new investors start with the original content, they adopt that mindset.

    1Reply
  • Mark Brown
    Member since 2022 · 30 posts · 18 votes
    2y

    Hey Engelo I'm hearing that this person who reached out to you didn't convey to you what they'd give you in exchange. For situations like this I always think "what other way could this person could have stated this to you?" Like what would be that value-add you wanted them to include?

    From what I can see I wouldn't have asked a PM for all those things but it sounds like this person has very little social network and is trying to leverage  yours. My guess is that the value add to you would be paying your company for PM and possibly bringing you in as a partner on deals. 

    I wouldn't generalize this to something being exactly "wrong with investors these days". In fact you seemt to be on track to have a new opportunity and partner potentially.  that's just my two-cents. 

    4Reply
  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y

    @James Wise

    It’s funny you mentioned that rental properties are a bad investment. Which most of them today are. But when you login to BiggerPockets the poll on the right hand side, ask people what are they gonna buy this year and the majority of them are saying a rental property , why? Because they think it is going to lead to riches and they have no idea they’re looking down the barrel of a loaded gun with a trigger that is going to get pulled within the next 24 months.

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  • Ivan Terrero
    Investor · Naples, FL · Member since 2016 · 256 posts · 75 votes
    2y

    @Crystal Smith

    Like when people go to the dentist and say " you're charging what?"..

    1Reply
  • V.G JasonPro Member
    Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @James Wise

    It’s funny you mentioned that rental properties are a bad investment. Which most of them today are. But when you login to BiggerPockets the poll on the right hand side, ask people what are they gonna buy this year and the majority of them are saying a rental property , why? Because they think it is going to lead to riches and they have no idea they’re looking down the barrel of a loaded gun with a trigger that is going to get pulled within the next 24 months.


     Are you implying there'll be a crash? Rental properties are case by case, if a good investment or not. 

    I'm going to wager there'll be a correction

    There will likely be folks who bought in '22 that won't be in the black till '27 from a mark to market value. I just don't see how there will be a crash fundamentally. There's just too much of a shortage. I think the correction comes in the (speculative) cash flow cities, overbuilt cities, and in creative financed properties. 

    I just don't see that correction being big enough to make the average market free fall. The next pocket of doom is one a few see, and likely a pocket we've not encountered before. And that's why it sneaks by until the chickens come home to roost.

    1Reply
  • Tim Ryan
    Investor / Mentor / Contractor · Arcadia, CA Buying Out of State · Member since 2015 · 654 posts · 621 votes
    2y

    Engelo, It's the "hack generation". Everyone wants to hack their way to the top.

    4Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @V.G Jason:
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @James Wise

    It’s funny you mentioned that rental properties are a bad investment. Which most of them today are. But when you login to BiggerPockets the poll on the right hand side, ask people what are they gonna buy this year and the majority of them are saying a rental property , why? Because they think it is going to lead to riches and they have no idea they’re looking down the barrel of a loaded gun with a trigger that is going to get pulled within the next 24 months.


     Are you implying there'll be a crash? Rental properties are case by case, if a good investment or not. 

    I'm going to wager there'll be a correction

    There will likely be folks who bought in '22 that won't be in the black till '27 from a mark to market value. I just don't see how there will be a crash fundamentally. There's just too much of a shortage. I think the correction comes in the (speculative) cash flow cities, overbuilt cities, and in creative financed properties. 

    I just don't see that correction being big enough to make the average market free fall. The next pocket of doom is one a few see, and likely a pocket we've not encountered before. And that's why it sneaks by until the chickens come home to roost.


    ON BP the other reason folks say rentals is this is a rental property heavily bias site.. So thats what your going to get.. And folks are told over and over they will get rich and retire and not have to work if they only buy rental properties . Right ?
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  • Carlos Ptriawan
    Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Tim Ryan:

    Engelo, It's the "hack generation". Everyone wants to hack their way to the top.


     GenZ hacky things, they think in everything there should be a hack + shortcut and there should be youtube for that.

    2Reply
  • Elvin William
    Member since 2021 · 42 posts · 33 votes
    2y

    Hey guys. I'm going to keep it real. We new investor are looking for property are not dumb. For example, I'm in California, I'm looking for places in Toledo, I never been to that city. So I ask a lot of questions about location and property management if it's turn key. If it's not turn key, I will ask about who gonna fix the property for me. I mean that's your job helping people out. If you don't want to help ppl, than your on a wrong job. Some investor is looking for like all in one shop like Walmart, relator, PM and loan officer. Without new investor, there won't have any business. My wife works full time job, I work a full time work and have two young kids. We don't have time for any issue or problem. We just want them to be done by property management. If there is a main issue, than we get calls and get it done. Stop complaining and do the job. If not, tell them to go some one else who would love to help. 

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  • Jeremiah Parker
    Stevens Point, WI · Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 4 votes
    2y

    @Engelo Rumora

    Those looking for the quick win with no work is normal these days. Seeing the same thing in the W-2 world. Unfortunately, something has been taught or created within our cultural to take and never give back and to work less but expect more. It is sad, I think this mindset will take a while to change. I think the best is to encourage those to continue to learn and grow their mindset.

    2Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Elvin William:

    Hey guys. I'm going to keep it real. We new investor are looking for property are not dumb. For example, I'm in California, I'm looking for places in Toledo, I never been to that city. So I ask a lot of questions about location and property management if it's turn key. If it's not turn key, I will ask about who gonna fix the property for me. I mean that's your job helping people out. If you don't want to help ppl, than your on a wrong job. Some investor is looking for like all in one shop like Walmart, relator, PM and loan officer. Without new investor, there won't have any business. My wife works full time job, I work a full time work and have two young kids. We don't have time for any issue or problem. We just want them to be done by property management. If there is a main issue, than we get calls and get it done. Stop complaining and do the job. If not, tell them to go some one else who would love to help. 


    Elvin,  full disclosure I was one of Engelo's first Captial Partners and helped launch what has been a very successful TK operation in Toledo OH.  Engelo is that full service shop I saw it first hand while we were still funding his inventory. He does all the things you mention and stands behind his product as well as anyone in the industry at least from what I have seen.. Now again to be fully transparent I have not funded anything for him in a few years as he has been able to handle his financial needs internally.

    I think the point of this post is clients inquiring then wanting to leverage his connections and experience but not pay for it. In other words .. Hey Engelo source me the deal at cost.. refer your sub base to me so I can hire them at cost. Then when I refinance or if I don't I will get back to you if I want to use your PM services..  I think that's what Engelo is saying..

    Since I fund investment Property flippers in 7 states that all sell some version of Turn key I get e mails asking for these types of scenarios as well.. Not as many since many don't really know what I do for a living or the breath of our involvement in providing Turnkey product to investors.

    All these contacts and especially the sub contractor base are hard earned relationships through trial and error. And again why I always say the BRRRR and finding your core 4 from your lounger is the most risky thing you can do.. For locals it works great they can be on site daily if they need to etc.

    As you so correctly point out there is a vast majority of investors that simply cant pull off a BRRRR and or should NEVER attempt it and if they want to buy investment properties in a market where the price points and cash flow day one are better than where they reside then picking a quality TK provider is one of the best ways to go about it.

    Engelo's bed side manner is not for everyone I have known him like I said for over a decade I met him on the Australian version of BP when he posted about buying the least expensive home in All of Australia and that was well documented in that country.

    However personality aside I can assure you that he is driven and very serious about his clients well being.. And doing the right thing for them.
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  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @James Wise

    It’s funny you mentioned that rental properties are a bad investment. Which most of them today are. But when you login to BiggerPockets the poll on the right hand side, ask people what are they gonna buy this year and the majority of them are saying a rental property , why? Because they think it is going to lead to riches and they have no idea they’re looking down the barrel of a loaded gun with a trigger that is going to get pulled within the next 24 months.


     To clarify, I am not the one who said rental properties were a bad investment.

    0Reply
  • Don KonipolBusiness Member
    Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    2y

    Rental properties will always be a good investment, WHEN purchased at the RIGHT price, when held long term, when located in at least a DECENT location, and when the owner has the financial staying power to weather an economic EVENT.  

    Here;s the key : Postion your investments in real property so that the investments can take advantage of ALL of the following: 

    1- cash flow 

    2- equity build up through loan amortization

    3- price appreciation

    4- tax benefits


    The LEAST important of the 4 above are tax benefits as investing through a retirement fund, ESPECIALLY ROTH, will provide tax shelter itself.  

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  • Travis Biziorek
    Investor · Arroyo Grande, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    This happens to me daily, so I get it.

    But it's really not worth complaining about. Is it annoying? Sure, but these folks will only take as much of your time as you're willing to give them.

    And they will take EVERYTHING you're will to give them, firing question after question after question.

    My advice, point them to some resources where they can read in-depth answers to your questions. If you need to develop that on your own website, do it. 

    When it's obvious someone just wants something for nothing I simply link them to a resource. Many times they won't read it and just keep asking questions. I send another link or just say, "Please see my previous link". 

    I'm always polite about it, but keep it short and don't spend much time answering anything. There's no reason to be rude. Some folks just don't get it and they'll either figure it out or they won't.

    6Reply
  • Lindas Faux Wood
    Member since 2024 · 1 post · 0 votes
    2y

    I’ve a STUPID question- don’t know if right place to post. Always had a desire to build houses, no experience-&  after reading comments, realize I’m a dreamer. I thought it worked was try partner with local builder-GC- 50-50 to build spec homes. I like â€śSips”, they’re approved for our area ,go up quick minus inspections, etc. I đź’­ once house is built & sells we split  50-50- should be some profits left over- ..why more ppl aren’t doing this if it was straightforward 🤔 ppl get scared & don’t like a daunting process? Mby partnering up wouldn’t be as bad. Worked for many Builders -they acted like it’s no big deal, saying anybody can do it..watched someone start as a realtor-started building homes-now he’s multimillionaire in short time.  he says no big deal-stole my first plans out of a job box- think he was blowing smoke up my…He said he would give me his subcontractors , why would he do that when he’s using them -so ..how far off base am I ? should I just go back to 🛌 & forget about it. if so easy, everybody would be doing it?

    & my dog groomer built his house-no experience -borrowing equipment, came from Guatemala-finished home ,made a huge profit -that’s where I get these ideas from- Maybe he got lucky -some ppl seem to glide through seemingly difficult processes without experience🤷🏻‍♀️ughhh!

    If there’s anybody in Palm Beach County fl. Msg  me -anybody that’s done this actually, I do understand all the processes involved I don’t know realestate law you have to have contracts in place with attorneys before you do anything with other people I don’t even think I’m looking to get rich I think I just wanna be doing something interesting if that makes sense. All right I guess I’m ready for all the comments. Oh Lord, help me God.

    0Reply
  • Carlos Ptriawan
    Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jeremiah Parker:

    @Engelo Rumora

    Those looking for the quick win with no work is normal these days. Seeing the same thing in the W-2 world. Unfortunately, something has been taught or created within our cultural to take and never give back and to work less but expect more. It is sad, I think this mindset will take a while to change. I think the best is to encourage those to continue to learn and grow their mindset.


     this is because culture changes due to quick adaption of social medii. All these instagram/Tiktok(and all the hell that Mark Zukerbergh created) is making the entire generation to want anything instantly, there's guru/apps for that so they don't have to work hard like previous generation (because their friend also able to did it), without any commitment in life. Even kid these days don't want to have kid , they'd rather playing video games LOL

    5Reply
  • Nate Marshall
    Real Estate Consultant · Evergreen, CO · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 723 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
    Quote from @Jeremiah Parker:

    @Engelo Rumora

    Those looking for the quick win with no work is normal these days. Seeing the same thing in the W-2 world. Unfortunately, something has been taught or created within our cultural to take and never give back and to work less but expect more. It is sad, I think this mindset will take a while to change. I think the best is to encourage those to continue to learn and grow their mindset.


     this is because culture changes due to quick adaption of social medii. All these instagram/Tiktok(and all the hell that Mark Zukerbergh created) is making the entire generation to want anything instantly, there's guru/apps for that so they don't have to work hard like previous generation (because their friend also able to did it), without any commitment in life. Even kid these days don't want to have kid , they'd rather playing video games LOL


     It is affecting more than finances, real estate and crypto. But I got my Lambo... 

    2Reply
  • Timothy Casallas
    Real Estate Agent · Queens, NY · Member since 2015 · 83 posts · 39 votes
    2y

    Lmao. I most definitely grinded my way into getting my teams setup in different markets and let me tell you, it aint easy. I think these people that you speak of are just shooting their shot going for the Hail Mary throw. They know getting ignored or cursed out will come with it, but the potential benefit is that someone will share that information with them.

    3Reply
  • Nate Marshall
    Real Estate Consultant · Evergreen, CO · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 723 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Timothy Casallas:

    Lmao. I most definitely grinded my way into getting my teams setup in different markets and let me tell you, it aint easy. I think these people that you speak of are just shooting their shot going for the Hail Mary throw. They know getting ignored or cursed out will come with it, but the potential benefit is that someone will share that information with them.


     They're mostly failures. They remind me of Hamas, Isis and al Qaeda leaders. Same type of mental illness. 

    1Reply
  • Timothy Casallas
    Real Estate Agent · Queens, NY · Member since 2015 · 83 posts · 39 votes
    2y

    That escalated quickly!

    3Reply
  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    OP
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Mark Brown:

    Hey Engelo I'm hearing that this person who reached out to you didn't convey to you what they'd give you in exchange. For situations like this I always think "what other way could this person could have stated this to you?" Like what would be that value-add you wanted them to include?

    From what I can see I wouldn't have asked a PM for all those things but it sounds like this person has very little social network and is trying to leverage  yours. My guess is that the value add to you would be paying your company for PM and possibly bringing you in as a partner on deals. 

    I wouldn't generalize this to something being exactly "wrong with investors these days". In fact you seemt to be on track to have a new opportunity and partner potentially.  that's just my two-cents. 


    Thanks mate but we don't ask for value to be given to us per se.

    We are the one's offering a valuable service.

    "Price is what you pay and value is what you get" as Warren Buffet said.

    The "value" someone would bring would be to fairly compensate us for all of the work we do and to not expect something for nothing.

    Much success

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  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    OP
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Tim Ryan:

    Engelo, It's the "hack generation". Everyone wants to hack their way to the top.


    haha

    No issues with hacking at all... 

    "Hackaway" with Fiverr, Upwork and ChatGPT.

    Just not with me hehe 

    The future ain't looking bright IMO mate.

    Gen Z is a disaster

    Way to spoilt IMO.

    In order to be able to work "Smart" you need to start off by working "Hard".

    Then after given time, you will figure out how to work "Smart".

    If you try with working "smart" from day 1, you end up being "dumb" lol

    Just my opinion based of my experiences 

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  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    OP
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Elvin William:

    Hey guys. I'm going to keep it real. We new investor are looking for property are not dumb. For example, I'm in California, I'm looking for places in Toledo, I never been to that city. So I ask a lot of questions about location and property management if it's turn key. If it's not turn key, I will ask about who gonna fix the property for me. I mean that's your job helping people out. If you don't want to help ppl, than your on a wrong job. Some investor is looking for like all in one shop like Walmart, relator, PM and loan officer. Without new investor, there won't have any business. My wife works full time job, I work a full time work and have two young kids. We don't have time for any issue or problem. We just want them to be done by property management. If there is a main issue, than we get calls and get it done. Stop complaining and do the job. If not, tell them to go some one else who would love to help. 


    Move to the city and do it all yourself then.

    or just buy turnkey...

    Our job is offering a service and getting paid for that service.

    Seems like folks these days aren't after "the cake and eating it too" lol

    They want me to feed it to them and wipe their mouth after they are done.

    Maybe even offer a glass of milk afterward also... 

    And all for no charge...

    God Bless America and I think we all agree that Communism doesn't work 🤷‍♂️

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  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    OP
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jeremiah Parker:

    @Engelo Rumora

    Those looking for the quick win with no work is normal these days. Seeing the same thing in the W-2 world. Unfortunately, something has been taught or created within our cultural to take and never give back and to work less but expect more. It is sad, I think this mindset will take a while to change. I think the best is to encourage those to continue to learn and grow their mindset.


    I think we already reached the inflection point mate.

    Old school "Hard Yakka" has gone out the window.

    Look at folks getting their panties in a tangle with "return to office" company mandates haha

    I'll stop there and and say no more so it doesn't get misconstrued but I"m not too optimistic over the next 20-30 years when it comes to the current work force maturing and being expected to "pull the weight".

    Thankfully we have AI and maybe even robotics taking over lol

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  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    OP
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

    @Engelo Rumora Great post! It is the same thing that I see/hear constantly. "Is there an App for ______? "

    Every one wants an APP to do everything for them. Tell them what a property is worth, how much it'll take to fix it up and what it will sell for....Everything. I expect I'll soon be asked if there is an APP that will actually do the renovation, or even better add a second story......? A contractor APP.....

    AI, Robots and Apps.....let's not do anything any more......sigh.....

    Good news is that this will open up the world to be taken over by people like those here.


     can you imagine how the world and real estate investing would be when genZ started becoming 42 years old, this is why they import immigrant Bruce, because their mind is not corrupted yet by AI,handyroboman and apps LOL LOL



    I love my latino's mate

    Amazing people that know the value of a dollar and hard work

    God bless them 🙏
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