Skip to content
×
PRO
Pro Members Get Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
$0
TODAY
$69.00/month when billed monthly.
$32.50/month when billed annually.
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Already a Pro Member? Sign in here

Join Over 3 Million Real Estate Investors

Create a free BiggerPockets account to comment, participate, and connect with over 3 million real estate investors.
Use your real name
By signing up, you indicate that you agree to the BiggerPockets Terms & Conditions.
The community here is like my own little personal real estate army that I can depend upon to help me through ANY problems I come across.
General Real Estate Investing
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

User Stats

9
Posts
4
Votes
Fernando Guzman
Pro Member
4
Votes |
9
Posts

Am I Limiting My Wealth?

Fernando Guzman
Pro Member
Posted

Thank you all for taking the time to read and provide any advice on my situation.

I’m currently facing a decision with my two properties and would appreciate your guidance. Here’s the breakdown:

- Property 1: This property has approximately $40,000 in equity but is cash flow negative by about $1,000 per month.

- Property 2: This property has around $100,000 in equity and is cash flowing positively at about +$200 per month. I know it's currently under-rented and believe I can increase the rent to generate around +$500 in cash flow.

My questions are as follows:

1. For Property 1: Should I sell this property and transfer the equity into another investment, or should I explore ways to lower the monthly payment and break even or slightly positive on cash flow?

2. For Property 2: Should I hold onto this property, increase the rent to improve cash flow, and potentially pull out some equity for another deal? Or would it make more sense to sell and reallocate that equity into a different property that might provide better returns?

I’ve received some conflicting advice:

- My tax advisor suggested keeping the negative cash flow from Property 1, as it helps offset my current job income, which is around $240,000 annually.

- My mentor recommended that I sell both properties and put the funds to work elsewhere, potentially in more lucrative opportunities.

I feel like holding onto the negative cashflow is limiting my growth potential, but I'm trying to weigh the options carefully. Any tips or advice from those of you who have navigated similar situations would be immensely appreciated!

Thank you all in advance for your help!

  • Fernando Guzman
  • User Stats

    2,145
    Posts
    1,202
    Votes
    Jason Wray
    Pro Member
    • Banker
    • Nationwide
    1,202
    Votes |
    2,145
    Posts
    Jason Wray
    Pro Member
    • Banker
    • Nationwide
    Replied

    Fernando,

    Sounds like your mentor might be correct in selling both properties. I am not sure if this mentor advised you on buying either one but the first home #1 Sell it fast. Do not listen to your tax advisor he is not giving you sound advice! I have heard CPA's and Tax people give bad advice when it comes to real estate. You do not need a negative cash flow deal to show a loss on your Schedule E. If you had a good "investor friendly" CPA he/she would write off enough to give you the deductions you need to help counter your W2 or 1099 income.

    Reason I say sell the first home is even with $40K in equity its not worth it to do a cash out refinance. Usually for every $10K you add to the current mortgage it will raise the mortgage payment by $85.00 a month. So if you are already negative, a cash out refinance will only dig you deeper. You also have to figure when you say $40K are you saying $40K and be at a 75% LTV or just $40K? You can only borrower 75% of the value of the home as an investment 80% is possible but the rates are not worth the increase.

    Home #2 depending on how high you can raise the rents $100K in equity is a good chunk but again are you using a 75% Max LTV and saying there is $100K to pull out. Again without running the numbers it's tough to give you a real answer based on Max LTV and future rents at the new loan amount and rate.

    If you have owned the rentals for a couple of years you can always do a 1031 exchange and avoid taxes by putting the sale proceeds into another investment home. If you are buying property in or around Vegas I would rethink your options. There are other states you can buy in that offer a better purchase to cash flow ratio. Spend less to make more and look at 2-4 unit multifamily homes - more doors more income.

    If you have any questions feel free to reach out running the numbers is easy and it might be exactly wha you need to make the next move.  

  • Jason Wray
  • [email protected]
  • 727-637-4289
  • User Stats

    9
    Posts
    4
    Votes
    Fernando Guzman
    Pro Member
    4
    Votes |
    9
    Posts
    Fernando Guzman
    Pro Member
    Replied

    Thank you for taking the time to reply and for the detailed insights – I really appreciate it!

    To clarify, my intention with Property 1 wasn’t to do a cash-out refinance but rather to see if I could lower the monthly payment to ease the negative cash flow. That being said, I completely understand your points, and you’ve got me thinking about whether it’s even worth trying to keep a property with such a high monthly deficit.

    I’m also very open to exploring other markets that could offer better returns, especially in multifamily properties. I haven’t invested outside of my local area yet, but I’m definitely considering moving my equity to a market that provides a better purchase-to-cash-flow ratio, as you suggested.

    I’d definitely welcome your help in running the numbers to make sure I’m moving in the right direction.

    Thanks again for your valuable input!

  • Fernando Guzman
  • BiggerPockets logo
    PassivePockets is here!
    |
    BiggerPockets
    Find sponsors, evaluate deals, and learn how to invest with confidence.

    User Stats

    74
    Posts
    52
    Votes
    Austin Cheatham
    • Accountant
    • Louisville, KY
    52
    Votes |
    74
    Posts
    Austin Cheatham
    • Accountant
    • Louisville, KY
    Replied

    Fernando,

    It could be time to search for a new tax professional, but without knowing your full situation I can't say for sure. I would recommend having someone who not only provides tax advice but also acts as a strategic advisor. Someone who is helping plan your tax situation and your short and long term goals. There are several ways to offset income, even with positive cash flow. There are situations where we could have a paper loss but still be able to show some cash flow, which is ideal.

    One of the downsides to selling property 1 is the potential for depreciation recapture and capital gains from any appreciation. However, we can negate some of that with a 1031 exchange which would allow you to take those gains and reinvest it into a better deal. When it comes to my clients, I like to run through different 1031 exchange scenarios to see what we can do to provide the maximum benefit of deferred tax and also be able to achieve what we want to do. Whether that be a partial exchange to pull some cash out or a full exchange to invest into a better deal. It will just be important to identify the new property and make sure you stay compliant with 1031 exchange guidelines.


    If you have any questions on the tax piece or need any help analyzing the numbers, feel free to reach out. Happy to help if I can.

    User Stats

    13,231
    Posts
    19,223
    Votes
    Joe Villeneuve
    Pro Member
    #4 All Forums Contributor
    • Plymouth, MI
    19,223
    Votes |
    13,231
    Posts
    Joe Villeneuve
    Pro Member
    #4 All Forums Contributor
    • Plymouth, MI
    Replied

    Listen to your Mentor, hire a different tax guy.

    User Stats

    7,937
    Posts
    3,448
    Votes
    Basit Siddiqi
    Tax & Financial Services
    Pro Member
    #3 Classifieds Contributor
    • Accountant
    • New York, NY
    3,448
    Votes |
    7,937
    Posts
    Basit Siddiqi
    Tax & Financial Services
    Pro Member
    #3 Classifieds Contributor
    • Accountant
    • New York, NY
    Replied

    The equity that you mention, is that just the FMV less the loan balance or is that the appreciation on the property?

    If its appreciation, I think you did a good job assuming you held the properties for a few years.
    If its just FMV less loan balance, i would only sell if you are unhappy with your appreciation / cash flow.

    User Stats

    2,291
    Posts
    1,870
    Votes
    Gino Barbaro
    Pro Member
    #1 Mobile Home Park Investing Contributor
    • Rental Property Investor
    • St Augustine, FL
    1,870
    Votes |
    2,291
    Posts
    Gino Barbaro
    Pro Member
    #1 Mobile Home Park Investing Contributor
    • Rental Property Investor
    • St Augustine, FL
    Replied

    @Fernando Guzman

    First thing is to pick an investment and stick with it.  If you're negative can flowing property is going to appreciate, then it may make sense to hold on.

    A loss is still a loss, and I would not hold onto a deal because I'm getting a write-off. That 1000 can turn much bigger with vacancy and unexpected repairs. I would not want to run a business and lose money every month.

    You have to sit down with a business/life coach and figure out what you want real estate to accomplish, how is it going to fitinot your life. If you don't have that figured out and your relationship with money, moving money around is not going to solve anything. Clarity will set you free.

    Gino

  • Gino Barbaro
  • User Stats

    9
    Posts
    4
    Votes
    Fernando Guzman
    Pro Member
    4
    Votes |
    9
    Posts
    Fernando Guzman
    Pro Member
    Replied
    Quote from @Austin Cheatham:

    Fernando,

    It could be time to search for a new tax professional, but without knowing your full situation I can't say for sure. I would recommend having someone who not only provides tax advice but also acts as a strategic advisor. Someone who is helping plan your tax situation and your short and long term goals. There are several ways to offset income, even with positive cash flow. There are situations where we could have a paper loss but still be able to show some cash flow, which is ideal.

    One of the downsides to selling property 1 is the potential for depreciation recapture and capital gains from any appreciation. However, we can negate some of that with a 1031 exchange which would allow you to take those gains and reinvest it into a better deal. When it comes to my clients, I like to run through different 1031 exchange scenarios to see what we can do to provide the maximum benefit of deferred tax and also be able to achieve what we want to do. Whether that be a partial exchange to pull some cash out or a full exchange to invest into a better deal. It will just be important to identify the new property and make sure you stay compliant with 1031 exchange guidelines.


    If you have any questions on the tax piece or need any help analyzing the numbers, feel free to reach out. Happy to help if I can.

    Thank you, Austin! I really value your input. A 1031 exchange is definitely in my plans as I look to scale and optimize my portfolio. My focus has always been on growth, and now that I'm in a position to make some moves, I want to ensure I’m making the right decisions without overlooking key factors.

    By the way, are you multi-state licensed or able to help with properties in Utah, Nevada, and Guam? I'd love to discuss how a 1031 could work for these properties and ensure I’m staying compliant while maximizing the benefits. 

  • Fernando Guzman
  • User Stats

    9
    Posts
    4
    Votes
    Fernando Guzman
    Pro Member
    4
    Votes |
    9
    Posts
    Fernando Guzman
    Pro Member
    Replied
    Quote from @Joe Villeneuve:

    Listen to your Mentor, hire a different tax guy.

    Thanks, Joe. My mentor has shared similar advice, and I'm seriously considering making the switch. It's time to align myself with a tax professional who not only understands my current situation but can also help me scale efficiently.

  • Fernando Guzman
  • User Stats

    9
    Posts
    4
    Votes
    Fernando Guzman
    Pro Member
    4
    Votes |
    9
    Posts
    Fernando Guzman
    Pro Member
    Replied
    Quote from @Basit Siddiqi:

    The equity that you mention, is that just the FMV less the loan balance or is that the appreciation on the property?

    If its appreciation, I think you did a good job assuming you held the properties for a few years.
    If its just FMV less loan balance, i would only sell if you are unhappy with your appreciation / cash flow.

    Appreciate your follow-up, Basit. The equity is a mix of FMV and appreciation. I've held the properties for a few years, and cash flow is becoming more of a focus now as I plan my next steps. I'll definitely keep your advice in mind as I weigh whether to hold or sell.

  • Fernando Guzman
  • User Stats

    74
    Posts
    52
    Votes
    Austin Cheatham
    • Accountant
    • Louisville, KY
    52
    Votes |
    74
    Posts
    Austin Cheatham
    • Accountant
    • Louisville, KY
    Replied
    Quote from @Fernando Guzman:
    Quote from @Austin Cheatham:

    Fernando,

    It could be time to search for a new tax professional, but without knowing your full situation I can't say for sure. I would recommend having someone who not only provides tax advice but also acts as a strategic advisor. Someone who is helping plan your tax situation and your short and long term goals. There are several ways to offset income, even with positive cash flow. There are situations where we could have a paper loss but still be able to show some cash flow, which is ideal.

    One of the downsides to selling property 1 is the potential for depreciation recapture and capital gains from any appreciation. However, we can negate some of that with a 1031 exchange which would allow you to take those gains and reinvest it into a better deal. When it comes to my clients, I like to run through different 1031 exchange scenarios to see what we can do to provide the maximum benefit of deferred tax and also be able to achieve what we want to do. Whether that be a partial exchange to pull some cash out or a full exchange to invest into a better deal. It will just be important to identify the new property and make sure you stay compliant with 1031 exchange guidelines.


    If you have any questions on the tax piece or need any help analyzing the numbers, feel free to reach out. Happy to help if I can.

    Thank you, Austin! I really value your input. A 1031 exchange is definitely in my plans as I look to scale and optimize my portfolio. My focus has always been on growth, and now that I'm in a position to make some moves, I want to ensure I’m making the right decisions without overlooking key factors.

    By the way, are you multi-state licensed or able to help with properties in Utah, Nevada, and Guam? I'd love to discuss how a 1031 could work for these properties and ensure I’m staying compliant while maximizing the benefits. 


     Yes sir! Plenty of experience preparing multi state returns and handling things of that nature. Feel free to shoot me a message and we can discuss your situation and look at what may be the best option for you. 

    User Stats

    9
    Posts
    4
    Votes
    Fernando Guzman
    Pro Member
    4
    Votes |
    9
    Posts
    Fernando Guzman
    Pro Member
    Replied
    Quote from @Gino Barbaro:

    @Fernando Guzman

    First thing is to pick an investment and stick with it.  If you're negative can flowing property is going to appreciate, then it may make sense to hold on.

    A loss is still a loss, and I would not hold onto a deal because I'm getting a write-off. That 1000 can turn much bigger with vacancy and unexpected repairs. I would not want to run a business and lose money every month.

    You have to sit down with a business/life coach and figure out what you want real estate to accomplish, how is it going to fitinot your life. If you don't have that figured out and your relationship with money, moving money around is not going to solve anything. Clarity will set you free.

    Gino

    Thank you, Gino. Your advice about gaining clarity really hits home. I've always been focused on scaling, but I realize that getting a clearer picture of how real estate fits into my life and goals is crucial. You mentioned working with a business/life coach—do you have any recommendations on who to reach out to for that kind of guidance? I think that could be a great next step for me as I navigate this phase.
  • Fernando Guzman
  • User Stats

    1,081
    Posts
    321
    Votes
    Replied

    Plenty of good recommendations on this forum:)

    BiggerPockets logo
    BiggerPockets
    |
    Sponsored
    Find an investor-friendly agent in your market TODAY Get matched with our network of trusted, local, investor friendly agents in under 2 minutes

    User Stats

    8,872
    Posts
    9,234
    Votes
    Dave Foster
    Professional Services
    Pro Member
    #1 1031 Exchanges Contributor
    • Qualified Intermediary for 1031 Exchanges
    • St. Petersburg, FL
    9,234
    Votes |
    8,872
    Posts
    Dave Foster
    Professional Services
    Pro Member
    #1 1031 Exchanges Contributor
    • Qualified Intermediary for 1031 Exchanges
    • St. Petersburg, FL
    Replied

    @Fernando Guzman, You know those properties well.  Now step back and look more closely at the macros of them and the market

    1. Is there appreciation growth potential or has that capped.

    2. Is there looming capital expense items that could eat up years of your cash flow.

    3. what about other regions/types of property.

    4. Can you multiply cash flow simply by changing the type or adding doors (from SF to MF).

    5. What does your cash flow really mean?  Is that after allowances for repairs and vacancy?

    You've got $140K of equity.  And you're losing almost $10K a year between the two of them - Yikes.  I'd sell my children if they cost me that much annually (wait they already do :)

    Protect the equity with a 1031 exchange.  And maybe look at doing a consolidation exchange to use all of that equity to  buy something larger where you can start to get economies of scale. And look at something newer where capital expenses won't creep up and hit you.

    And anyone telling you to lose $12K a year because you make $240K a year probably isn't the best fit.

    User Stats

    3,583
    Posts
    3,011
    Votes
    Ashish Acharya
    Tax & Financial Services
    Pro Member
    #2 Tax, SDIRAs & Cost Segregation Contributor
    • CPA, CFP®, PFS
    • Florida
    3,011
    Votes |
    3,583
    Posts
    Ashish Acharya
    Tax & Financial Services
    Pro Member
    #2 Tax, SDIRAs & Cost Segregation Contributor
    • CPA, CFP®, PFS
    • Florida
    Replied

    @Fernando Guzman

    For Property 1, the $1,000 monthly negative cash flow could limit your growth, despite the tax benefits. Neg paper losses will save you taxes. Actual -ve cash flow doesn't make sense. If you can't improve cash flow through refinancing or rent increases, selling and reallocating the $40,000 equity into a better investment might be wiser.

    For Property 2, increasing the rent to improve cash flow to $500 makes it a solid hold. You could also explore a cash-out refinance to fund another investment. While tax benefits are valuable, focusing on investments that provide both cash flow and appreciation will better maximize your wealth potential.

    *This post does not create a CPA-Client relationship. The information contained in this post is not to be relied upon. Readers should seek professional advice.

    User Stats

    9
    Posts
    4
    Votes
    Fernando Guzman
    Pro Member
    4
    Votes |
    9
    Posts
    Fernando Guzman
    Pro Member
    Replied
    Quote from @Ashish Acharya:

    @Fernando Guzman

    For Property 1, the $1,000 monthly negative cash flow could limit your growth, despite the tax benefits. Neg paper losses will save you taxes. Actual -ve cash flow doesn't make sense. If you can't improve cash flow through refinancing or rent increases, selling and reallocating the $40,000 equity into a better investment might be wiser.

    For Property 2, increasing the rent to improve cash flow to $500 makes it a solid hold. You could also explore a cash-out refinance to fund another investment. While tax benefits are valuable, focusing on investments that provide both cash flow and appreciation will better maximize your wealth potential.

    *This post does not create a CPA-Client relationship. The information contained in this post is not to be relied upon. Readers should seek professional advice.

    Thanks so much for the solid advice! I completely agree that the negative cash flow on Property 1 could limit my growth, and selling to reallocate the equity makes sense if I can’t improve the cash flow.

    For Property 2, increasing the rent and possibly doing a cash-out refi are good ideas. I appreciate your input—it’s really helping me think through the next steps.

  • Fernando Guzman
  • User Stats

    3,583
    Posts
    3,011
    Votes
    Ashish Acharya
    Tax & Financial Services
    Pro Member
    #2 Tax, SDIRAs & Cost Segregation Contributor
    • CPA, CFP®, PFS
    • Florida
    3,011
    Votes |
    3,583
    Posts
    Ashish Acharya
    Tax & Financial Services
    Pro Member
    #2 Tax, SDIRAs & Cost Segregation Contributor
    • CPA, CFP®, PFS
    • Florida
    Replied
    Quote from @Fernando Guzman:
    Quote from @Ashish Acharya:

    @Fernando Guzman

    For Property 1, the $1,000 monthly negative cash flow could limit your growth, despite the tax benefits. Neg paper losses will save you taxes. Actual -ve cash flow doesn't make sense. If you can't improve cash flow through refinancing or rent increases, selling and reallocating the $40,000 equity into a better investment might be wiser.

    For Property 2, increasing the rent to improve cash flow to $500 makes it a solid hold. You could also explore a cash-out refinance to fund another investment. While tax benefits are valuable, focusing on investments that provide both cash flow and appreciation will better maximize your wealth potential.

    *This post does not create a CPA-Client relationship. The information contained in this post is not to be relied upon. Readers should seek professional advice.

    Thanks so much for the solid advice! I completely agree that the negative cash flow on Property 1 could limit my growth, and selling to reallocate the equity makes sense if I can’t improve the cash flow.

    For Property 2, increasing the rent and possibly doing a cash-out refi are good ideas. I appreciate your input—it’s really helping me think through the next steps.

    I am more than happy to help!