Realistically most investors won’t replace all income W/ cashflow

[Shiloh Lundahl]

I don’t mean to burst peoples’ bubbles here, but in my opinion, most investors on BiggerPockets won’t get to a place where they can replace all their monthly income with the cash flow of their properties. Some will. But I see that as more of the exception than the rule. Let’s say that you would like $10,000 a month in cash flow in order to quit your job. How many properties on average do you think it takes to get to $10,000 a month in mostly passive income? Let’s say on average you make $200 a door after accounting for all expenses and savings for cap ex, turn over, and vacancy. At $200 a door, it would take 50 doors to get to $10,000 a month and that is if you manage the properties yourself.  Some people have ownership of 50 doors on their own and manage everything themselves but then the income ceases to be passive and becomes active. But most people have partners or employees when they get to that size and then it takes a lot more doors to get up to $10,000 a month when you need to pay other people to help you with the work it takes to acquire and manage so many units  

The reason I am writing this is not to make anyone feel bad, or dash your dreams. Rather it is to give people more of a realistic framework of what making $10,000 a month in passive income really looks like. That way people can be more realistic with their goals. I hear a lot of people say that they want to buy rentals and then retire. But I don’t think they really know how much work and the infrastructure that it takes to own and manage the number of units it takes to get to $10,000 a month.

I’d love to hear the opinions and experiences of others on this topic. Also, feel free to share if you think I am wrong or the work it took you and the money it took to get $10,000 a month in passive income. I’d love to hear your thoughts and opinions.

[Natalie Kolodij]

It's all relative 

We always hear about how debt and leverage is what lets you grow, why brrr is so great ect,

My biggest issue with BRRRR is how little cash flow you get- I understand infinate return, reusing the same cash. But using BRRRR to replace monthly cash flow is a slow going task.

There was a podcast a while ago whe guy lived super frugally, had a good paying job and just bought 1 property cash each year for 5 years. 

His cash flow was like $1k a month now since no debt- and he just live in costa rica or something. 

And I remember thinking...well that sounds lovely and simplified. 

[Joe Villeneuve]

Originally posted by @Kevin O'Brien:

Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:

This is what I meant above when I listed the 3 reasons why most investors won't reach CF/Income replacement level, and the things they could/should know/do that would allow them to reach it. Its starts with REI focusing on CF as if it's a stand alone solution...it's not. Neither is focusing on equity alone. The two of them together is better but they are means to an end, not the end.

Unfortunately, too many REI don't understand what cost is. They introduce interest rates, ROI in percentages (telling them nothing of value), and equity build up...but within the same property instead of total equity. $100k in equity in one property is equal to $100k in equity spread out evenly in 5 properties. The difference is what the true value is in both cases.

Similarly, CF as a percentage of $$$ invested, or a total CF in a property also tells us nothing of value.  Why?  First think about why we want CF...to replace our monthly income...to cover our monthly bills.  $200, $400, $600 per month are just numbers without any context within our overall plan...to achieve a replacement source for out income.  Same, even worse, is when we use percentages as our judge of a good deal.  Cash flow should first pay us back for the cash we put into the deal the CF comes from.  Number one judge of a good deal should be how long it takes to recover that cash in.  If a deal that makes $6000/yr costs $60k in DP, that means it takes 10 years to recover the DP.  If a $5k CF/yr on a $20k DP only takes 4 years to recover it, which deal is better?

I've read on this forum how there are REI that love deals that cost them $90k in cash (DP, CC, rehab, etc..., and make $3k/month as a good deal. How is that possible if it takes 30 years to recover their cash?

Not sure where or why you went with your response. For what it's worth I've already replaced my monthly expenses with rental income. A professional REI should know how to BRRR as I said in my post. If they are expecting to be able to just buy turn keys and rent them as is they will obviously see lower returns for less work. I leave usually never leave my initial equity in my BRRR's after I refinance. At most maybe 5% so on a typical $150-$200K deal we are talking about less than $10,000. If I'm returning $7,200 a year on that rental and left $10K equity in it that's a pretty amazing return. I never mentioned appreciation because it's never guaranteed and repayment of loan isn't money you have access to so it shouldn't be thought of much. But of course they benefit the scenario. My SFR's have appreciated close to 30% over the past two years! That's more than my monthly cash flow. I like cash flow it helps keep businesses alive when times are rough. I'm a lot more comfortable knowing half my tenants could stop paying and I'd be fine. Can't do that with $200 a month in cash flow. And before you say I don't consider my time I spend less than an hour a month per rental to net $600-$700 a month. All I'm hearing from you is excuses. I did this in 3 years it wasn't easy but I think most people are capable of similar results.

Excuses? What are you talking about? My statement you replied to was to the general population reading this thread.  I'm thinking you missed the point completely though.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Natalie Kolodij:

It's all relative 

We always hear about how debt and leverage is what lets you grow, why brrr is so great ect,

My biggest issue with BRRRR is how little cash flow you get- I understand infinate return, reusing the same cash. But using BRRRR to replace monthly cash flow is a slow going task.

There was a podcast a while ago whe guy lived super frugally, had a good paying job and just bought 1 property cash each year for 5 years. 

His cash flow was like $1k a month now since no debt- and he just live in costa rica or something. 

And I remember thinking...well that sounds lovely and simplified. 

In my note business days I had investors who sold their rentals and flipped to notes since note income of course is taxed you have to account for that  but you dont have to work it like a landlord.. and in the ramp up stage they would just plow their note income into the next note and so on and so for for ( many of my clients were doing this for decades) these folks have passive income like most on BP dream of  and some have a lot of it  ONe of my clients held over 5 million in first trust deeds just with our company that is cash flow :)

now just like ANYTHING with RE there are going to be bad days note goes sour and you have to step in since your the bank..

BRRRR is how I built my Hardmoney lending business starting in 2002 all of our loans were to West coast investors buying in mid west cash flow markets and all of them BRRRR it went this way.. they put up 1k and I funded the purchase and rehab which was at 65% ARV ( easily done in those years in those markets before this turn key thing got so hot.. Then the turnkey ground partner did the rehab and rented it and of course out of the 65% ARV the local provider got paid .. so they loved it . then the investor did a Rate and term refi at 75% LTV and we got paid off and they would usually walk with 3 to 8k per house of refi money and we usually tried to do 2 to 4 at once for each client. It worked great until the GFC .. thats why I chuckle a little bit when folks think this BRRRR is a new invented concept here on BP..

For investors doing this on their own from afar they take some significant risks. 

[Jay Hinrichs]

In the parks I owned in the day we always sold the MH we never wanted to own any of them.. maintenance is a bugger on those things .. Plus banks wont lend on them they like parks to have all ground rent.

Over the years here on BP I do love the I need 10k cash flow to retire with so many dreaming of it but not really understanding the time and resources that are needed to execute the plan.  

Personally I see the rentals as an investment for long term Net worth etc not something to replace your ability to make money to live what ever life you choose to live.

And boy is it highly regional Its not just one receipe .. you have Guys that I really admire like Steve V who to me is just the embodiment of do it yourself long term plan and then create a lifestyle.. He likes his lifestyle I think he likes working on his homes and he is smart enough to do the deep dive into tax positioning and as we age out we/Steve realize you really want to retire debt on a good amount of these rentals to really get where you want to be.. 

[Nicholas L.]

@Shiloh Lundahl this is a little bit of a tangent, but of your 74 SFHs, is cash flow / appreciation all comparable because they're similar houses in similar markets?  Or does it vary?  What are your best performing SFHs like? 

[Jim Pfeifer]

There are many ways to get to $10,000 in monthly passive income and what they all have in common is they take time.  Real estate is generally not a get rich quick scheme - rather it's a build wealth slowly process and time can help your wealth snowball eventually.  

Each person must figure out the best way to wealth freedom - for some it will be BRRR, others it will be flipper or something else. For me, it was passive syndications. As you said, it starts out slowly - if you invest $25,000 in a syndication that gets you 8% CoC, you will get $166.67 per month. You need need 60 times that to get to your $10,000 but that doesn't mean you need to invest in 60 syndications. In 3 or 5 or 7 years, your first deals will go full cycle and hopefully return your capital and some appreciation and you reinvest - it grows faster than you expect. Of course, for this strategy you definitely need some capital to start so if you don't have capital you will need to start with another strategy but for many with assets in the stock market or investable assets, this strategy is absolutely doable - it just might take you a few years to completely replace your income.

The key in real estate is to find a strategy that works for you given your resources and knowledge and have the patience to keep going.

[Kevin O'Brien]

Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:

Excuses? What are you talking about? My statement you replied to was to the general population reading this thread.  I'm thinking you missed the point completely though.

Your first comment quoted mine which was why I responded. Your first post doesn’t make much sense and you didn’t make it clear you were talking to the general population. But yes your post did come off as very excuse’ish to me. Buying rentals and holding them for the long term is how you retire off real estate income. BRRR let’s you scale this beyond a couple properties. it’s more than doable to do one or two a year while working a W2. After buying 10 the average UMC folk should be able to supplement most their income. If they started at 30 they’d be there by 40 and have the properties paid off by 70. While keeping management reasonable at only an hour a month per property times 10. Beside the topic of this thread was to supplement your income with rental income not appreciation or the other benefits of real estate. 

[Cody L.]

Originally posted by @Greg M.:

The way these forums push real estate investing, few people here will ever get to the point they can truly retire off the rental income. Look at how many people push the approach that the second you get $1 in equity in a property, you take it out to buy another property - repeat over and over. They boast about having 100 units that each bring in a small amount of free cash every month. What they never talk about is that their job is to service those 100 units. 100 units = 100 times the potential problems + little equity if they ever want to cash out.

I'm taking the approach that I want to have a small number of units fully paid off by the time I retire. With no mortgage to pay every month, I'll stick 80% of the rent into my pocket. 

 Nothing wrong with how you do it.  But nothing wrong with how they (I) do it either.  I don't want 1 house paid off as the cash I can borrow against that house cost me less than 4%.  And with that cash I can buy properties that return well over 4%.  So if I'm looking to maximize total amount of cash flow, it makes sence to lever up.

You're taking the more conservative approach.  Nothing wrong with that.  But if you're looking to build something big, you can't do it that way.  Last Friday I completed a refinance that pushed me over $100,000,000 in loans.   That's a big scary number.   But it's also somewhat conservative given the portfolio I built that is responsible for paying it off. 

[Nathan Gesner]

I started investing in 2016 and have just taken it slow. I save up all my cash flow and money from real estate sales and buy up property as opportunities arise. I was up to 30 rentals with an annual net of $40,000 in 2020. Definitely nothing to write home about, but I'm in an appreciation market and have almost $2 million in equity.

In 2021 I bought a junky storage facility with 130 units. My annual net income has jumped to $120,000.

You read that right. My storage facility nets twice as much as my other 30 rentals combined. It's both refreshing and disheartening.

[Frank McGovern]

I think it’s wise for people to think about what their actual goals are. My goals coming into this are to have passive money in retirement and have more to hand down to my kids. I don’t care about the money right now. Good positive cash flow is obviously ideal, but not mandatory to me.

So if my properties negative cash flow for the next 20 years, I don’t even care. Because I’m 30 years from retirement and they’ll be making good passive income in 30 years and they’ll likely all be paid off and will contain tons of equity or sales prices for my children.

[Jill F.]

When we started, we had already retired and had been living off savings and interest for a decade. But after some health problems, we decided we would not be able to stay retired if we didn't increase our cash flow. Our tactics have changed as we've learned and grown our business but our overall strategy of buy and hold rentals that cash flow has not changed. Initially, we believed we'd need about 65 rentals to adequately meet our needs and to allow us to hire maintenance help so that we were not just "buying a full time job" and we are still not quite there. We now have 59 units but we'd like to sell 8 of them (for nicer easier to manage, higher appreciating rentals in better neighborhoods) and because our son has joined us in the business, we'll need more units than initially planned. This has been a full time job for both of us for the last 5.5 years  (plus we had significant savings to start with) but we do expect to once again be "semi-retired" within the next two years.

[Carlos M.]

@Shiloh Lundahl

10k a month is definitely doable. My wife and I have done it. We have been in the game 15 years now. We started out with a $60k home equity loan. Purchased a 5 unit multi/family. Our initial plan was as follows. NEVER spend any profits. All moneys must stay in the business for the first 10 years. We will manage and maintain all the units our selves. Purchase a building every year for the first 5 years using just savings , creative financing for the initial equity. After 5 years refi the first property to pull out all the equity and purchase the largest property possible. That gave us the initial equity for the next 5 years. Then the plan was starting in year 10 to really grow using the brrrr method. So what does it look like now ?? Just under a 100 doors , a small parking lot, about 15 garage rentals. We net just about 3 times your monthly goal and have 5 million in equity. It is in no way passive. But at this time I don’t want it to be. I’m only 45 , and I love being an entrepreneur, I love designing and executing our remodels , I enjoy the acquisition process too. I enjoy dealing with most of our tenants. Of course we have a few that can be overly needy… but that comes with the territory. At any time we can hire a management company and walk away. We do have a full time maintenance employee. That’s our only additional help. Success looks different to everyone, and it’s also a moving target. We are planning on hiring more help in the future so it can be more passive as we are planning longer vacations. Our first long vacation will be touring the US in a motor home for a year. Any way. 10k is doable / easy for those who truly put the work in, are tenacious, understand it’s not all rainbows and unicorns, and practice delayed gratification.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Cody L.:

Originally posted by @Greg M.:

The way these forums push real estate investing, few people here will ever get to the point they can truly retire off the rental income. Look at how many people push the approach that the second you get $1 in equity in a property, you take it out to buy another property - repeat over and over. They boast about having 100 units that each bring in a small amount of free cash every month. What they never talk about is that their job is to service those 100 units. 100 units = 100 times the potential problems + little equity if they ever want to cash out.

I'm taking the approach that I want to have a small number of units fully paid off by the time I retire. With no mortgage to pay every month, I'll stick 80% of the rent into my pocket. 

 Nothing wrong with how you do it.  But nothing wrong with how they (I) do it either.  I don't want 1 house paid off as the cash I can borrow against that house cost me less than 4%.  And with that cash I can buy properties that return well over 4%.  So if I'm looking to maximize total amount of cash flow, it makes sence to lever up.

You're taking the more conservative approach.  Nothing wrong with that.  But if you're looking to build something big, you can't do it that way.  Last Friday I completed a refinance that pushed me over $100,000,000 in loans.   That's a big scary number.   But it's also somewhat conservative given the portfolio I built that is responsible for paying it off. 

One of the great aspects of where your at with that kind of debt ( at least I think this is correct) carries no personal liability.

Congrats on your REFI.. !!!!!!

[Marco Aceves]

Originally posted by @Patrick Snyder:

Something else to consider:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcprosser/2017/07/19/data-proves-reits-are-better-than-buying-real-estate/?sh=56385bd7d6b7

4 year old article 

[Cody L.]

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Cody L.:

Originally posted by @Greg M.:

The way these forums push real estate investing, few people here will ever get to the point they can truly retire off the rental income. Look at how many people push the approach that the second you get $1 in equity in a property, you take it out to buy another property - repeat over and over. They boast about having 100 units that each bring in a small amount of free cash every month. What they never talk about is that their job is to service those 100 units. 100 units = 100 times the potential problems + little equity if they ever want to cash out.

I'm taking the approach that I want to have a small number of units fully paid off by the time I retire. With no mortgage to pay every month, I'll stick 80% of the rent into my pocket. 

 Nothing wrong with how you do it.  But nothing wrong with how they (I) do it either.  I don't want 1 house paid off as the cash I can borrow against that house cost me less than 4%.  And with that cash I can buy properties that return well over 4%.  So if I'm looking to maximize total amount of cash flow, it makes sence to lever up.

You're taking the more conservative approach.  Nothing wrong with that.  But if you're looking to build something big, you can't do it that way.  Last Friday I completed a refinance that pushed me over $100,000,000 in loans.   That's a big scary number.   But it's also somewhat conservative given the portfolio I built that is responsible for paying it off. 

One of the great aspects of where your at with that kind of debt ( at least I think this is correct) carries no personal liability.

Congrats on your REFI.. !!!!!!

 Thanks.  But almost all my debt is recourse. 

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Cody L.:

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Cody L.:

Originally posted by @Greg M.:

The way these forums push real estate investing, few people here will ever get to the point they can truly retire off the rental income. Look at how many people push the approach that the second you get $1 in equity in a property, you take it out to buy another property - repeat over and over. They boast about having 100 units that each bring in a small amount of free cash every month. What they never talk about is that their job is to service those 100 units. 100 units = 100 times the potential problems + little equity if they ever want to cash out.

I'm taking the approach that I want to have a small number of units fully paid off by the time I retire. With no mortgage to pay every month, I'll stick 80% of the rent into my pocket. 

 Nothing wrong with how you do it.  But nothing wrong with how they (I) do it either.  I don't want 1 house paid off as the cash I can borrow against that house cost me less than 4%.  And with that cash I can buy properties that return well over 4%.  So if I'm looking to maximize total amount of cash flow, it makes sence to lever up.

You're taking the more conservative approach.  Nothing wrong with that.  But if you're looking to build something big, you can't do it that way.  Last Friday I completed a refinance that pushed me over $100,000,000 in loans.   That's a big scary number.   But it's also somewhat conservative given the portfolio I built that is responsible for paying it off. 

One of the great aspects of where your at with that kind of debt ( at least I think this is correct) carries no personal liability.

Congrats on your REFI.. !!!!!!

 Thanks.  But almost all my debt is recourse. 

Wow I was under the impression that those large MF loans were all non recourse.

IN our building/development world Non recourse is never discussed its all recourse and heavy weighted to experience and balance sheet 

[Cody L.]

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Cody L.:

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Cody L.:

Originally posted by @Greg M.:

The way these forums push real estate investing, few people here will ever get to the point they can truly retire off the rental income. Look at how many people push the approach that the second you get $1 in equity in a property, you take it out to buy another property - repeat over and over. They boast about having 100 units that each bring in a small amount of free cash every month. What they never talk about is that their job is to service those 100 units. 100 units = 100 times the potential problems + little equity if they ever want to cash out.

I'm taking the approach that I want to have a small number of units fully paid off by the time I retire. With no mortgage to pay every month, I'll stick 80% of the rent into my pocket. 

 Nothing wrong with how you do it.  But nothing wrong with how they (I) do it either.  I don't want 1 house paid off as the cash I can borrow against that house cost me less than 4%.  And with that cash I can buy properties that return well over 4%.  So if I'm looking to maximize total amount of cash flow, it makes sence to lever up.

You're taking the more conservative approach.  Nothing wrong with that.  But if you're looking to build something big, you can't do it that way.  Last Friday I completed a refinance that pushed me over $100,000,000 in loans.   That's a big scary number.   But it's also somewhat conservative given the portfolio I built that is responsible for paying it off. 

One of the great aspects of where your at with that kind of debt ( at least I think this is correct) carries no personal liability.

Congrats on your REFI.. !!!!!!

 Thanks.  But almost all my debt is recourse. 

Wow I was under the impression that those large MF loans were all non recourse.

IN our building/development world Non recourse is never discussed its all recourse and heavy weighted to experience and balance sheet 

There are tons of non recourse options, but the rest of the terms typically suck. Way more expensive insurance, more punitive pre-pay, tons of post-closing reporting, escrows, etc. I went though the process of a CMBS loan (non recorse), and NEVER again. Even freddie, which is non recorse, has too much -- can't think of the term -- 'hoopla' for me. I like simple. I borrow money, I pay it back, leave me alone int he meantime.

At the end of the day  I really don't care if a loan is recourse or not.  If I have a $10m property with a $7m loan, I'm not walking from it either way. 

Most of the time recourse is a no-go because you're dealing with syndications or groups of people and, in those cases, who is going to be the recourse?  Where as I'm a solo guy so it doesn't really matter. 

[Shiloh Lundahl]

@Nicholas L. Each of the 74 single family homes is somewhat different from each other.  I would say about 60 of them are lease options and the rest are just rentals.  I would say their average cash flow is about $200 a piece give or take.  Some of my better ones would include a property I did with a buddy who wanted to house hack.  I found the property under market value and I lined up the hard money financing.  He put in the money to rehab the property and then I refinanced it once it was fixed up.  After we got a long term loan on the property, I had a private money lender come in second position to the loan and cash us out the majority of the money that remained in the deal.  My buddy lived in one of the rooms and rented out the other 3 rooms to single guys.  Then he moved out after about a year and he rented out his old room and continued to manage the property.  

Here are the numbers:

Purchase price 160k

Rehab 15k

Holding costs and double set of closing costs 15k

Long term Loan 161k

Second Loan 20k

Total left into the deal around 9k (this was my partners money)

Monthly rents $2600

Monthly expenses around $1400

Cash flow split between my buddy and me $1200

I have a handful of properties that perform like that. However the average property that is rented out probably cash flows around $200. 

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Cody L.:

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Cody L.:

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Cody L.:

Originally posted by @Greg M.:

The way these forums push real estate investing, few people here will ever get to the point they can truly retire off the rental income. Look at how many people push the approach that the second you get $1 in equity in a property, you take it out to buy another property - repeat over and over. They boast about having 100 units that each bring in a small amount of free cash every month. What they never talk about is that their job is to service those 100 units. 100 units = 100 times the potential problems + little equity if they ever want to cash out.

I'm taking the approach that I want to have a small number of units fully paid off by the time I retire. With no mortgage to pay every month, I'll stick 80% of the rent into my pocket. 

 Nothing wrong with how you do it.  But nothing wrong with how they (I) do it either.  I don't want 1 house paid off as the cash I can borrow against that house cost me less than 4%.  And with that cash I can buy properties that return well over 4%.  So if I'm looking to maximize total amount of cash flow, it makes sence to lever up.

You're taking the more conservative approach.  Nothing wrong with that.  But if you're looking to build something big, you can't do it that way.  Last Friday I completed a refinance that pushed me over $100,000,000 in loans.   That's a big scary number.   But it's also somewhat conservative given the portfolio I built that is responsible for paying it off. 

One of the great aspects of where your at with that kind of debt ( at least I think this is correct) carries no personal liability.

Congrats on your REFI.. !!!!!!

 Thanks.  But almost all my debt is recourse. 

Wow I was under the impression that those large MF loans were all non recourse.

IN our building/development world Non recourse is never discussed its all recourse and heavy weighted to experience and balance sheet 

There are tons of non recourse options, but the rest of the terms typically suck. Way more expensive insurance, more punitive pre-pay, tons of post-closing reporting, escrows, etc. I went though the process of a CMBS loan (non recorse), and NEVER again. Even freddie, which is non recorse, has too much -- can't think of the term -- 'hoopla' for me. I like simple. I borrow money, I pay it back, leave me alone int he meantime.

At the end of the day  I really don't care if a loan is recourse or not.  If I have a $10m property with a $7m loan, I'm not walking from it either way. 

Most of the time recourse is a no-go because you're dealing with syndications or groups of people and, in those cases, who is going to be the recourse?  Where as I'm a solo guy so it doesn't really matter. 

 Gothca I have heard horror stories of Investors taking down those type of loans and regretting it..  Lack of release clauses and like you said annual reporting and such rate is good but terms are a heavy lift to stay in loan covenants 

[Delbert Standifer]

@Jay Hinrichs

How about if I have 10 properties paid off is that a better approach to reaching 10k a month over Multiple units to reach to 10k a month?

[Brandon Penn]

Great post Shiloh! This is why I don't look to keep leveraging my properties. While they don't make much now, as long as I let them get paid off over 15 year term I can retire at 45 with quite a bit of money coming in every month. Rentals are a get rich slow game, and as long as people go in with that mindset it is a great form of investing for retirement. The other option as you said would be to grow the business to a point where you can afford infrastructure to manage the rentals which will take a lot of doors.

[Dan Bass]

@Shiloh Lundahl great point.

Numbers usually don’t work now. Housing is too high for rents and who knows if new tech will come out like pods that Elon lives in to help the housing crisis.

If you didn’t buy in the last 10-15 years, it’s hard to do so now and get free.

I have enough doors to pay my personal housing expenses and that feels great to me! Do I want more? Heck yes!

I’ve switched to dividend investing now for cashflow as its new to learn and I’d rather have different streams of income now vs all real estate.

I wish I bought more but the ones I do have will serve me well. It has taught me a lot about business and taxes as well as investing in myself vs a 401k and hoping I have enough later and not taking the risk to buy rentals.

[Shiloh Lundahl]

@Brandon Penn Great to hear from you buddy.  I think your strategy is a sound one.  Good luck and thanks for your comment.

[Luka Milicevic]

$10k/mo in RE income is a lot of money and more than I need personally. 

If we are truly talking about retirement, then having 50 doors leveraged is not the way to go. If we are talking about 10/month, then really all you need is 10 doors at 1k/mo all paid off. 

You also need less money to live on in retirement if you are TRULY retired. You don't have to save money, or put money aside for GROWING your investments as you already have everything you need (which is why you're retired). 

Personally, I never plan on not working. It sounds like my worst nightmare. So I need a lot less money from passive RE as I plan on working in some capacity until I am no longer able to. 

You have also only touched on ONE aspect of investing which is passive real estate. I know most folks on here are not going ot have just that one avenue of passive income. My guess is most will have some form of passive income from paper assets. 401s, IRAs, stocks, etc...

[Nathan Gesner]

Quote from @Delbert Standifer:

@Jay Hinrichs

How about if I have 10 properties paid off is that a better approach to reaching 10k a month over Multiple units to reach to 10k a month?

Yes! It's much easier to manage ten houses earning $1,000 each than to manage 100 houses earning $100 each.