Tenant wants to end lease early due to bad area

[Chris Bergeron]

Good Morning! 

I have a quick questions and wanted to see if anyone has encountered this before. I have a Section 8 tenant who moved into one of my properties about 4 months ago. She has been an amazing tenant and I really enjoy working with her. She has been complaining about the area, and finally told me today that she wants to move out of the home because she is afraid of the area, and walking her daughters to the bus stop there are kids with guns, and there are shootings in the area every so often (this is a poverty stricken area, so I understand her concerns)

She wants to break her lease and move out early (she signed a year lease and also gave me a $1,100 deposit) Should I require her to wait until we find a new tenant? Give me 30 days notice and then vacate? Return her deposit? Etc. Any advice on this matter would be greatly helpful! Thanks

[Michael K Gallagher]

@Chris Bergeron my first instinct is to ask what your lease says?  do whatever the lease that she signed says regarding the lease break.  If you do not have a lease break procedure then mine is usually a 60 days notice, and a lease break fee of 2 months rent, or alternatively I've also done a 60 days notice and a forfeiture of the security deposit.  I the very least if she wants to do so she needs to provide official written notice.  You can really come up with whatever agreement works for you, but in my experience switching a unit in section 8 is not an easy process, so she may have quite the time to wait even after searching.

[Mohammed Rahman]

Hey @Chris Bergeron. Ditto on the advice before me, follow the lease you have in place. 

FYI the section 8 department that she's under will likely require specific rules to be followed as well to terminate a lease early... It's not easy, and they intentionally don't make it easy. It's up to your discretion I believe as the landlord, but note that most likely if the lease doesn't call for any early termination fees then you may have to oblige. 

Good luck! 

[Scott Mac]

Kids with guns, in a poverty stricken area, robbing other people in poverty--for poverty amounts of money.

I'd be afraid to walk in that area too.

Class D owner/operator problem (which is one reason people say class D is a tough cookie).

And the renter you replace her with will be bulletproof (???)

Now in my neighborhood, if a child at the bus stop had a gun, and an adult knew about it, the adult would call 911 and report it, and let the Patrol Officers end the situation for the safety of others, vs breaking the lease and moving away.

The Police will end it, and when it's done they will be holding that gun--as evidence.

Does she have no Cellular Phone--to let the fingers do the walking--911(???)

1-Adam-12 boy at the bus stop with a gun, Mothers and children afraid and in DANGER, code 3.

Can you imagine how many Patrol Cars would light up and swarm down on the bus stop and solve that problem.

Just my 2 cents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1bsHDkqaCo

[Chris Bergeron]

Quote from @Scott Mac:

Kids with guns, in a poverty stricken area, robbing other people in poverty--for poverty amounts of money.

I'd be afraid to walk in that area too.

Class D owner/operator problem (which is one reason people say class D is a tough cookie).

And the renter you replace her with will be bulletproof (???)

Now in my neighborhood, if a child at the bus stop had a gun, and an adult knew about it, the adult would call 911 and report it, and let the Patrol Officers end the situation for the safety of others, vs breaking the lease and moving away.

The Police will end it, and when it's done they will be holding that gun--as evidence.

Does she have no Cellular Phone--to let the fingers do the walking--911(???)

1-Adam-12 boy at the bus stop with a gun, Mothers and children afraid and in DANGER, code 3.

Can you imagine how many Patrol Cars would light up and swarm down on the bus stop and solve that problem.

Just my 2 cents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1bsHDkqaCo

 I've suggested she call the police and she absolutely refuses to do so, she is afraid they will retaliate on her and her family

[James Dainard]

Quote from @Chris Bergeron:

Good Morning! 

I have a quick questions and wanted to see if anyone has encountered this before. I have a Section 8 tenant who moved into one of my properties about 4 months ago. She has been an amazing tenant and I really enjoy working with her. She has been complaining about the area, and finally told me today that she wants to move out of the home because she is afraid of the area, and walking her daughters to the bus stop there are kids with guns, and there are shootings in the area every so often (this is a poverty stricken area, so I understand her concerns)

She wants to break her lease and move out early (she signed a year lease and also gave me a $1,100 deposit) Should I require her to wait until we find a new tenant? Give me 30 days notice and then vacate? Return her deposit? Etc. Any advice on this matter would be greatly helpful! Thanks

Hey Chris,
Stick to your lease. If she wants to break and give up her deposit then she can leave at any time.
If she wants her deposit back and you're willing to give it to her you should do so after you've found someone to occupy the unit.
Your current tenant can leave immediately and continue to pay rent until you find someone or just give up the deposit or she can stay while you're looking for someone else. Just make sure she understands that you're working with her and she'll work with you on getting new tenants through the property.
Highly recommend that you ask her to leave for any property showings if she doesn't like the location.
Best of luck!

[Reid Chauvin]

Tough situation...wonder where she thinks she is going to go in the city that's any better. Unfortunately, I imagine most areas servicing section 8 tenants in New Orleans are currently a similar environment. Plus, is she going to have to switch her kids' schools? I'd make sure that she has this all thought out before letting her break the lease. 

[Beau Guidry]

Chris, I own property in New Orleans that I rent on section 8. It’s in your best interest to not try and hold on to a tenant that doesn’t want to live there. Im not saying let them walk away free and clear but maybe try to work out turning the lease into a 6 month term and allow her to recover half of her deposit IF the property is as clean as it was when they moved in. This incentivizes the tenant to to move out at an agreed upon date and leave the property in the best condition possible. I know the section 8 market very well in NOLA and you will not have any problem finding a new quality tenant that will be ready to move in asap. 

I was faced with a similar situation with a tenant about a month ago and that was the option I gave her. A week later she realized how hard it would be to find another place (like others have pointed out) and how much money she would lose (half deposit, moving costs, possibly losing voucher) - she ultimately decided to stay. They key is I tried to work with her and give her an option so she wouldn’t feel trapped by the landlord. Reach out to me directly and I can discuss with you in further detail.

[Beau Guidry]

Quote from @Scott Mac:

Kids with guns, in a poverty stricken area, robbing other people in poverty--for poverty amounts of money.

I'd be afraid to walk in that area too.

Class D owner/operator problem (which is one reason people say class D is a tough cookie).

And the renter you replace her with will be bulletproof (???)

Now in my neighborhood, if a child at the bus stop had a gun, and an adult knew about it, the adult would call 911 and report it, and let the Patrol Officers end the situation for the safety of others, vs breaking the lease and moving away.

The Police will end it, and when it's done they will be holding that gun--as evidence.

Does she have no Cellular Phone--to let the fingers do the walking--911(???)

1-Adam-12 boy at the bus stop with a gun, Mothers and children afraid and in DANGER, code 3.

Can you imagine how many Patrol Cars would light up and swarm down on the bus stop and solve that problem.

Just my 2 cents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1bsHDkqaCo

That may be true for other cities but that’s not what’s going on in NOLA right now. With the police being severely understaffed, tenant would be lucky to have police show up in any reasonable amount of time to actually catch someone. Retaliation is also a real concern and some of the cops lack the professionalism to respond to a situation discretely without implicating citizens that are cooperating with them.

[Galen Ikonomov]

I am usually always business and would say that they have to stick with the decision they took. In this case though it comes to safety and if someone does not feel safe, you should let them go. I mean, at the end of the day our job is to provide safe and clean environment.

My main suggestion is get rid of the property and invest somewhere else. I mean, I know there are a lot of people that will come and tell me that they invest in D neighborhoods and they are doing fine but how many people really are FINE in these neighborhoods?

[Matt M.]

This is exactly why I would never buy a property that I wouldn’t live in if I had to. If that was mine, I’d let her go and sell.  You’ll only have issues with the next tenant also. 

[Theresa Harris]

Was she new to the city and didn't know about the area she was renting in?  Depending on the answer, I'd let her out with proper notice assuming section 8 is fine with it.

[Manco Snead]

I put ethics, morals, and being a good neighbor before all the administrative paper work and businessy stuff. If the neighborhood really is unsafe and she really does feel unsafe there with her daughter I'd just have her give 30 days or less, return her deposit given she didn't destroy the place and that's it. The other way I look at it is that you, being in the position of privilege, own at least one house while she presumably doesn't own any. Just my opinion.

[Nathan Gesner]

Quote from @Chris Bergeron:

I would let her leave quickly, but I would require her to allow me to market the property immediately to reduce the impact to my income. I would hold her responsible for rent until a new tenant was placed or 30 days from the day of notice, whichever comes first.

[Jonathan R McLaughlin]

@Chris Bergeron this isn’t a battle I would pick. If she feels her child is in danger everything else is less important ( as it should be) and will be sacrificed first—rent included. You would be fighting for a couple of months rent and she would be fighting for her daughter.

I would be shocked if a multi-month break fee is enforceable anyway and even if you dont have a duty to mitigate a judge is going to wonder why you can’t fill the place with another section 8. And a mother with a child in danger in court? This likely won’t be the only time you have to deal with something so think how you want to be perceived by the court.

Let her go. Have her pay rent regularly and help you show the place. Refund prorated rent when booked minus reasonable turnover costs.

Good Karma, yes but also good business. There are likely people who wouldn’t feel as vulnerable who would take the place and it’s a win win.

[Robert Flowers]

There are a couple of opportunities here...  Yes it is a bad area, however this can be addressed with 1st level security such as dummy cameras around the property or real ones..(your choice) Motion lights when property is approached. And signs that are placed on property stating PRIVATE PROPERTY ACTIVITIES ARE MONITORED.  Also, a little secret when installing internet wifi, Name it (Federal Narcotic) 

Anyone who lives in the neighborhood or moving in the neighborhood and trying to get wifi that name will pop up along with other wifi names. Be a good landlord and let her go if she wants to, under the guidelines of your lease agreement and according to section 8.  Secondly, if you have 3 or more bedrooms, go through a non-profit organization to get your tenants and let the non-profit pay the rents. (Special Needs with mild disabilities)

 Rent by the room at 550-800 per room. 800 rent x 3 bedrooms = 2400  and get  up to 1600 deposit per person x 3 = 4800.  Your totals 2400 in rents + 4800 in deposits = 7200.  You shouldn't have any problems getting approved because of your property is up to standards according to Section 8

[Mose Gebremeskel]

Quote from @Beau Guidry:

Chris, I own property in New Orleans that I rent on section 8. It’s in your best interest to not try and hold on to a tenant that doesn’t want to live there. Im not saying let them walk away free and clear but maybe try to work out turning the lease into a 6 month term and allow her to recover half of her deposit IF the property is as clean as it was when they moved in. This incentivizes the tenant to to move out at an agreed upon date and leave the property in the best condition possible. I know the section 8 market very well in NOLA and you will not have any problem finding a new quality tenant that will be ready to move in asap. 

I was faced with a similar situation with a tenant about a month ago and that was the option I gave her. A week later she realized how hard it would be to find another place (like others have pointed out) and how much money she would lose (half deposit, moving costs, possibly losing voucher) - she ultimately decided to stay. They key is I tried to work with her and give her an option so she wouldn’t feel trapped by the landlord. Reach out to me directly and I can discuss with you in further detail.

 THIS! Great advice. 

[Nicholas Salman]

Tough situation considering emotions involved with another family.  I, too, am very empathetic, but I find myself having to realize you can't make everyone happy because at the end of the day it's still your business.  Honestly I would say do what the contract she signed says.  If you feel you can find some middle ground to help her and her family then do that then that is great.  I can understand a mother just trying to do what is best for her kids, I just hope she's not just using any excuse to move.  Best of luck!

[Joel Case]

You have been given some great advice, I would handle this with a caring mindset, but I would not lose money to facilitate it. Let her go as soon as you have a new tenant and make her pay the fees you incur for the turnover. 

[Linda S.]

@Chris Bergeron,

Check your contract with section 8, in VA it requires the tenant give the current landlord (if they allow them out of their lease) a full 2-months pay. It's not going to be a quick move, as you have to do the paperwork.

That being said,  @Nathan Gesner gave the best advice IMO.   Let her move, and quickly  start advertising it once you have a confirmed move-out date.   Focus on finding someone older who is familiar with the area.    If you try and force her to fulfill the lease, I will guarantee 100% she will be a PITA and call and complain, to the point you will want her out.   

[John Grinston]

Quote from @Manco Snead:

I put ethics, morals, and being a good neighbor before all the administrative paper work and businessy stuff. If the neighborhood really is unsafe and she really does feel unsafe there with her daughter I'd just have her give 30 days or less, return her deposit given she didn't destroy the place and that's it. The other way I look at it is that you, being in the position of privilege, own at least one house while she presumably doesn't own any. Just my opinion 

I couldn't believe these other comments.Well said 

[Matthew Bowling]

What a fantastic thread this is! Only on Bigger Pockets can you get this kind of well-rounded advice. It's wonderful how this community can look at what on the surface might be a simple landlord/tenant issue and uncover other issues that impact both the landlord and the tenant. I think there's a win-win here after an informed conversation with the tenant. I hope everything goes smoothly @Chris Bergeron

[Randy Gutierrez]

@James Dainard said it best. I think this is a good compromise. Good balance of moral ethics and business. I hope the situation gets better in New Orleans, I remember reading an article on the situation there I think it the WSJ. Unfortunately another city where "public servants" govern with emotions rather than logic.

[Jeremy Blackburn]

Quote from @Beau Guidry:

Quote from @Scott Mac:

Kids with guns, in a poverty stricken area, robbing other people in poverty--for poverty amounts of money.

I'd be afraid to walk in that area too.

Class D owner/operator problem (which is one reason people say class D is a tough cookie).

And the renter you replace her with will be bulletproof (???)

Now in my neighborhood, if a child at the bus stop had a gun, and an adult knew about it, the adult would call 911 and report it, and let the Patrol Officers end the situation for the safety of others, vs breaking the lease and moving away.

The Police will end it, and when it's done they will be holding that gun--as evidence.

Does she have no Cellular Phone--to let the fingers do the walking--911(???)

1-Adam-12 boy at the bus stop with a gun, Mothers and children afraid and in DANGER, code 3.

Can you imagine how many Patrol Cars would light up and swarm down on the bus stop and solve that problem.

Just my 2 cents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1bsHDkqaCo

That may be true for other cities but that’s not what’s going on in NOLA right now. With the police being severely understaffed, tenant would be lucky to have police show up in any reasonable amount of time to actually catch someone. Retaliation is also a real concern and some of the cops lack the professionalism to respond to a situation discretely without implicating citizens that are cooperating with them.

Beau is spot on. New Orleans is one the most dangerous cities in the country right now. The murder rate is off the charts. Response times to 911 calls can be hours at times. It's sad but it's the truth.