Skip to content
General Landlording & Rental Properties

User Stats

74
Posts
19
Votes
Pat Hamilton
19
Votes |
74
Posts

Violations & License and Inspection

Pat Hamilton
Posted Jan 19 2023, 06:51

I own a property in Philadelphia which is managed by a professional management company.  My tenant had not been paying rent for months due to maintenance issues.  The property management company says that the tenant always reschedules maintenance requests and implies that the tenant is just avoiding paying rent.  They recommended starting the eviction process, which I did.  Apparently the tenant called the city of Philadelphia and I now have a ton of violations to resolve.  They property management company is very slow in responding to me and the clock is ticking.  It appears there are hefty fines for not resolving the issues within 30 days.  30 days is quickly approaching and I don't know what to do.  I call my property management company frequently and they keep saying "we are in the process of sending a vendor out"....Even getting an estimate for the repairs is like pulling teeth.  I'm disappointed in my tenant and the property management company.  Should I call the city inspector directly and request an extension?  How are these things handled in practice?  Some of the violations are simple fixes.    I have very little experience, but as the owner I am ultimately responsible for the cost....no one else seems to care!!!!!!

User Stats

4,948
Posts
2,896
Votes
Bob Stevens
Pro Member
#3 Rehabbing & House Flipping Contributor
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Cleveland
2,896
Votes |
4,948
Posts
Bob Stevens
Pro Member
#3 Rehabbing & House Flipping Contributor
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Cleveland
Replied Jan 19 2023, 06:56
Quote from @Pat Hamilton:

I own a property in Philadelphia which is managed by a professional management company.  My tenant had not been paying rent for months due to maintenance issues.  The property management company says that the tenant always reschedules maintenance requests and implies that the tenant is just avoiding paying rent.  They recommended starting the eviction process, which I did.  Apparently the tenant called the city of Philadelphia and I now have a ton of violations to resolve.  They property management company is very slow in responding to me and the clock is ticking.  It appears there are hefty fines for not resolving the issues within 30 days.  30 days is quickly approaching and I don't know what to do.  I call my property management company frequently and they keep saying "we are in the process of sending a vendor out"....Even getting an estimate for the repairs is like pulling teeth.  I'm disappointed in my tenant and the property management company.  Should I call the city inspector directly and request an extension?  How are these things handled in practice?  Some of the violations are simple fixes.    I have very little experience, but as the owner I am ultimately responsible for the cost....no one else seems to care!!!!!!


 The city will not care, and you have one of these low life tenants ( trust me I have delt with many in the Cleveland markets ) . You need a better team. You have no other option but to get the repairs completed or you will get more and more fines and lose more months of lost rent . Or sell it at a discount and move on 

User Stats

4,948
Posts
2,896
Votes
Bob Stevens
Pro Member
#3 Rehabbing & House Flipping Contributor
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Cleveland
2,896
Votes |
4,948
Posts
Bob Stevens
Pro Member
#3 Rehabbing & House Flipping Contributor
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Cleveland
Replied Jan 19 2023, 06:59
Quote from @Bob Stevens:
Quote from @Pat Hamilton:

I own a property in Philadelphia which is managed by a professional management company.  My tenant had not been paying rent for months due to maintenance issues.  The property management company says that the tenant always reschedules maintenance requests and implies that the tenant is just avoiding paying rent.  They recommended starting the eviction process, which I did.  Apparently the tenant called the city of Philadelphia and I now have a ton of violations to resolve.  They property management company is very slow in responding to me and the clock is ticking.  It appears there are hefty fines for not resolving the issues within 30 days.  30 days is quickly approaching and I don't know what to do.  I call my property management company frequently and they keep saying "we are in the process of sending a vendor out"....Even getting an estimate for the repairs is like pulling teeth.  I'm disappointed in my tenant and the property management company.  Should I call the city inspector directly and request an extension?  How are these things handled in practice?  Some of the violations are simple fixes.    I have very little experience, but as the owner I am ultimately responsible for the cost....no one else seems to care!!!!!!


 The city will not care, and you have one of these low life tenants ( trust me I have delt with many in the Cleveland markets ) . You need a better team. You have no other option but to get the repairs completed or you will get more and more fines and lose more months of lost rent . Or sell it at a discount and move on 

I have a client with a 80k lien on his property he knew nothing about. He lives in Spain, his current PM never did any of the repairs, never showed up in court so he lost the case. Well 1k per day fine ( max 62k) plus fees, all because his current PM did not CLEAN up the backyard. Yep minor. Now he had to hire an attorney to get the lien removed , Its ALL about your team. We are now taking care of all his properties 


BiggerPockets logo
Find, Vet and Invest in Syndications
|
BiggerPockets
PassivePockets will help you find sponsors, evaluate deals, and learn how to invest with confidence.

User Stats

4,668
Posts
4,766
Votes
Scott Mac
  • Austin, TX
4,766
Votes |
4,668
Posts
Scott Mac
  • Austin, TX
Replied Jan 19 2023, 07:09

There are owner operators in here who would/could just drive over with tools and supplies and repair everything.

But you are long distance....and seem to have a management company that's taking more time than you want to get things done.

The city lawmakers do not want their people living in sub-standard or health hazard conditions.

Do you live with violations like this in your own home.

Get them fixed, that's your only option, other than that, the only thing I can think of would be to think about selling, and be done with it (and let the new owner handle the repairs).

User Stats

74
Posts
19
Votes
Pat Hamilton
19
Votes |
74
Posts
Pat Hamilton
Replied Jan 19 2023, 07:15

@Bob Stevens

Thank you for your response.  I am highly considering selling. 

User Stats

74
Posts
19
Votes
Pat Hamilton
19
Votes |
74
Posts
Pat Hamilton
Replied Jan 19 2023, 07:18

@Scott Mac

I also do not want anyone living in sub-standard or health hazard conditions!  Of course I want them fixed but my property manager is saying the tenant is not providing access....rescheduling constantly!!!!  

User Stats

4,948
Posts
2,896
Votes
Bob Stevens
Pro Member
#3 Rehabbing & House Flipping Contributor
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Cleveland
2,896
Votes |
4,948
Posts
Bob Stevens
Pro Member
#3 Rehabbing & House Flipping Contributor
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Cleveland
Replied Jan 19 2023, 07:23
Quote from @Pat Hamilton:

@Scott Mac

I also do not want anyone living in sub-standard or health hazard conditions!  Of course I want them fixed but my property manager is saying the tenant is not providing access....rescheduling constantly!!!!  

 Again you have a low life tenant playing the game so they can live rent free. Newsflash the tenant canNOT stop your people from going in. 24 hour notice and enter. Do the repairs and leave. ITS NOT their house 

You PM is terrible, 

User Stats

901
Posts
703
Votes
Replied Jan 19 2023, 07:44
Quote from @Pat Hamilton:

@Scott Mac

I also do not want anyone living in sub-standard or health hazard conditions!  Of course I want them fixed but my property manager is saying the tenant is not providing access....rescheduling constantly!!!!  

Have your property manager collect and organize ALL the documentation showing tenant not allowing access to building. Have your lawyer tell you what your rights are with respect to non-consensual entry to make repairs.

You, my friend, are going to court. You will be hit with attempts at levies and fines. Have your evidence. Know your rights. Plan accordingly.

User Stats

572
Posts
388
Votes
Eric Greenberg
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
388
Votes |
572
Posts
Eric Greenberg
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
Replied Jan 19 2023, 09:07
Quote from @Pat Hamilton:

I own a property in Philadelphia which is managed by a professional management company.  My tenant had not been paying rent for months due to maintenance issues.  The property management company says that the tenant always reschedules maintenance requests and implies that the tenant is just avoiding paying rent.  They recommended starting the eviction process, which I did.  Apparently the tenant called the city of Philadelphia and I now have a ton of violations to resolve.  They property management company is very slow in responding to me and the clock is ticking.  It appears there are hefty fines for not resolving the issues within 30 days.  30 days is quickly approaching and I don't know what to do.  I call my property management company frequently and they keep saying "we are in the process of sending a vendor out"....Even getting an estimate for the repairs is like pulling teeth.  I'm disappointed in my tenant and the property management company.  Should I call the city inspector directly and request an extension?  How are these things handled in practice?  Some of the violations are simple fixes.    I have very little experience, but as the owner I am ultimately responsible for the cost....no one else seems to care!!!!!!


 Hi Pat,

Sorry you are having to deal with that. If it were me and I wasnt local Id reach out to L&I via phone to discuss the situation, it may or may not help and it may be infuriating but call in the morning and they usually will call you back later that day. Wost case they say no right? Id also reach out to local handymen to have ut fixed myself. Hard to know what exactly what to do without knowing the issues at hand but happy to talk in more detail via DM if youd like. 

User Stats

4,948
Posts
2,896
Votes
Bob Stevens
Pro Member
#3 Rehabbing & House Flipping Contributor
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Cleveland
2,896
Votes |
4,948
Posts
Bob Stevens
Pro Member
#3 Rehabbing & House Flipping Contributor
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Cleveland
Replied Jan 19 2023, 10:16
Quote from @John Clark:
Quote from @Pat Hamilton:

@Scott Mac

I also do not want anyone living in sub-standard or health hazard conditions!  Of course I want them fixed but my property manager is saying the tenant is not providing access....rescheduling constantly!!!!  

Have your property manager collect and organize ALL the documentation showing tenant not allowing access to building. Have your lawyer tell you what your rights are with respect to non-consensual entry to make repairs.

You, my friend, are going to court. You will be hit with attempts at levies and fines. Have your evidence. Know your rights. Plan accordingly.

 Court will not care, I am not speculating.  The court is aware the OWNER has a right to go into their own home. The fact this owner is not aware of that well,,,,,, 

User Stats

2,700
Posts
2,827
Votes
Corby Goade
  • Investor
  • Boise, ID
2,827
Votes |
2,700
Posts
Corby Goade
  • Investor
  • Boise, ID
Replied Jan 19 2023, 10:31

I don't know of any state in the country that you NEED the tenant's permission to enter the property and make repairs. Typically you simply need to give them at least 24 hours written notice. Your PM should have done that after the first time they didn't provide access to the property.

Secondly, this is the price investors pay for investing in places where the laws are heavily weighted in the favor of the tenants. You'll probably pay more for a property in a red state up front, but it'll cost you less. 

Best of luck- sorry you are in this situation. 

User Stats

572
Posts
388
Votes
Eric Greenberg
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
388
Votes |
572
Posts
Eric Greenberg
  • Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
Replied Jan 19 2023, 11:11
Quote from @Bob Stevens:

 Court will not care, I am not speculating.  The court is aware the OWNER has a right to go into their own home. The fact this owner is not aware of that well,,,,,, 

You’ve been in a Philadelphia court before and had the judge side with a tenant in a similar situation?

This happens quite often in Philadelphia when folks need to get lead inspections/maintenance/meters replaced/etc, as folks know how the system works. Even if the law states that a landlord must give tenants 24 hours notice before entering the property except in emergencies, does not mean your PM or most hired workers will barge into a house that someone isn’t letting them have access to and/or being problematic. 

Resources that may be helpful:
https://www.phila.gov/media/20...

https://www.phila.gov/media/20...

User Stats

4,948
Posts
2,896
Votes
Bob Stevens
Pro Member
#3 Rehabbing & House Flipping Contributor
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Cleveland
2,896
Votes |
4,948
Posts
Bob Stevens
Pro Member
#3 Rehabbing & House Flipping Contributor
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Cleveland
Replied Jan 19 2023, 12:59
Quote from @Eric Greenberg:
Quote from @Bob Stevens:

 Court will not care, I am not speculating.  The court is aware the OWNER has a right to go into their own home. The fact this owner is not aware of that well,,,,,, 

You’ve been in a Philadelphia court before and had the judge side with a tenant in a similar situation?

This happens quite often in Philadelphia when folks need to get lead inspections/maintenance/meters replaced/etc, as folks know how the system works. Even if the law states that a landlord must give tenants 24 hours notice before entering the property except in emergencies, does not mean your PM or most hired workers will barge into a house that someone isn’t letting them have access to and/or being problematic. 

Resources that may be helpful:
https://www.phila.gov/media/20...

https://www.phila.gov/media/20...

 I do all my business in Cleveland its same same BS, The court will not give a hoot. JUST go in and do the repairs, tenant has NO RIGHT to stop you, they are just low life's trying to live for free.  

FlipSystem logo
FlipSystem
|
Sponsored
Learn From Our Team. Earn 100% of the Profits. Join our community of 500+ investors! Avg profit per flip: $14k, Avg effort per week: 4hrs

User Stats

211
Posts
162
Votes
Kevin Paulk
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Brooklyn, NY
162
Votes |
211
Posts
Kevin Paulk
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Brooklyn, NY
Replied Jan 20 2023, 05:16

@Pat Hamilton Sorry you're going through this but I think @John Clark & @Eric Greenberg gave some really sound advice. I would request that your PM company gather evidence showing how you are attempting to resolve the issues but not being let in. Give that evidence to your T/L attorney to help build the case. I would also contact L&I and explain your situation, it would be a 50/50 shot but worth reaching out. 

Good Luck!

User Stats

26,409
Posts
17,750
Votes
James Wise#3 All Forums Contributor
  • Real Estate Broker
  • Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH
17,750
Votes |
26,409
Posts
James Wise#3 All Forums Contributor
  • Real Estate Broker
  • Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH
Replied Jan 20 2023, 07:31
Quote from @Pat Hamilton:

I own a property in Philadelphia which is managed by a professional management company.  My tenant had not been paying rent for months due to maintenance issues.  The property management company says that the tenant always reschedules maintenance requests and implies that the tenant is just avoiding paying rent.  They recommended starting the eviction process, which I did.  Apparently the tenant called the city of Philadelphia and I now have a ton of violations to resolve.  They property management company is very slow in responding to me and the clock is ticking.  It appears there are hefty fines for not resolving the issues within 30 days.  30 days is quickly approaching and I don't know what to do.  I call my property management company frequently and they keep saying "we are in the process of sending a vendor out"....Even getting an estimate for the repairs is like pulling teeth.  I'm disappointed in my tenant and the property management company.  Should I call the city inspector directly and request an extension?  How are these things handled in practice?  Some of the violations are simple fixes.    I have very little experience, but as the owner I am ultimately responsible for the cost....no one else seems to care!!!!!!


 Start the eviction process. Your PM will be able to present evidence to the court that the tenant is not allowing access to fix the repairs. This sort of thing is a fairly common tactic that deadbeats use to try to game the system. No doubt, it's not the first time the judge has seen a situation like this.

User Stats

7,028
Posts
3,638
Votes
Drew Sygit#2 Managing Your Property Contributor
  • Property Manager
  • Royal Oak, MI
3,638
Votes |
7,028
Posts
Drew Sygit#2 Managing Your Property Contributor
  • Property Manager
  • Royal Oak, MI
Replied Jan 20 2023, 10:01

@Pat Hamilton so many problems when investors hire the cheapest PMC's!

Here's what we do in this situation, which may need to be adapted to local laws:

1) Give tenant 3 chances in 10 days or so to schedule. 

2) If tenant denying access, have contractor take video of the encounter to document. Send company inspector with contractor if necessary to take video

3) Post Legal Entry Notice on door and take video of the posting

4) Send company inspector with contractor for legal entry attempt, take video

5) Contact city inspection dept to discuss options, send video proof.

6) If necessary, schedule city inspection and send company inspector to take video of access attempt

7) Start eviction process if needed

8) Contact city atttorney to discuss what documentation they need about noncooperative tenant and eviction process being pursued, to avoid further tickets

9) DOCUMENT EVERYTHING!

User Stats

74
Posts
19
Votes
Pat Hamilton
19
Votes |
74
Posts
Pat Hamilton
Replied Mar 14 2023, 08:37

@Drew Sygit I did not hire the cheapest PMC.  This is one of the biggest ones in Philadelphia, they take 8% and charge for every little thing.  They are awful with maintenance, but are excellent at collecting fees :)

I wanted to provided a bit of an update:

I tried to contact the inspector but it is impossible to get through by phone. The property manager gave me a huge estimate to fix the issues, which I promptly paid, but it is still taking them forever to finish the work!  The city inspector apparently came out to the property 4 more times and cleared some of the violations (I'm getting this information from the city website, not from anyone else).  I'm in the process of evicting the tenant, apparently it takes a long time in Philadelphia.

User Stats

7,028
Posts
3,638
Votes
Drew Sygit#2 Managing Your Property Contributor
  • Property Manager
  • Royal Oak, MI
3,638
Votes |
7,028
Posts
Drew Sygit#2 Managing Your Property Contributor
  • Property Manager
  • Royal Oak, MI
Replied Mar 14 2023, 09:21

Thanks for the update!

User Stats

5
Posts
0
Votes
Replied Jun 5 2023, 13:47
Quote from @Pat Hamilton:

@Drew Sygit I did not hire the cheapest PMC.  This is one of the biggest ones in Philadelphia, they take 8% and charge for every little thing.  They are awful with maintenance, but are excellent at collecting fees :)

I wanted to provided a bit of an update:

I tried to contact the inspector but it is impossible to get through by phone. The property manager gave me a huge estimate to fix the issues, which I promptly paid, but it is still taking them forever to finish the work!  The city inspector apparently came out to the property 4 more times and cleared some of the violations (I'm getting this information from the city website, not from anyone else).  I'm in the process of evicting the tenant, apparently it takes a long time in Philadelphia.


 I am sorry to hear that. This is such a common theme in Philadelphia. A lot of property management companies really do very little. It is still up to you to make sure every paper work is done properly and every code is followed. A lot of investors thinks hiring a management company is the solution to their problems. From my experience unless you are dealing with the person onboarded you, you are just a number to them. You should always get your own estimates as well, management companies tend to put a fee on top of the actual quote.

User Stats

824
Posts
559
Votes
Alan Asriants#1 Real Estate News & Current Events Contributor
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Philadelphia, PA
559
Votes |
824
Posts
Alan Asriants#1 Real Estate News & Current Events Contributor
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Philadelphia, PA
Replied Jun 5 2023, 15:58

If the tenant is not letting contractors in and claiming issues, then the management company cant do anything. This is a professional tenant that the company should have vetted. It is best to start eviction process. Nothing you can do about violations now.

If management company is dropping the ball I would fire them immediately.

Looks like its been 5 months, any updates?