Tenant won’t sign lease /won’t pay security deposit.

[Luke Cullinane]

I have a single family home that is occupied by a tenant at the end of a 1 year month to month agreement.  Initially, We had a 6 month agreement at $1500 a month.  They stayed the 6 months and then a year, so 18 months total at that rent.  I expressed the need to raise rent given higher interest, taxes, and the need for improvements on the property (roof and decking need replacing).  I offered a 6 month rent at $1800 with full security deposit.  I got a lot of attitude and BS but no lease or security deposit.  I have offered “cash for keys” ,$500, if they can move out and I’ve explained they have the right to vacate at any time.  I think they will try to ride out the previous terms as long as they can because $1500 is cheap for a 3 bedroom in my area.  I want to validate the lease I presented that is dated Oct. 1.  I gave 30 days notice.  This tenant complains about the condition of the house constantly, yet they will not move out.  They have paid their rent but they have been late a few times.  I appreciate any advice you could share.

Thanks

[Theresa Harris]

By no security deposit, do you mean they moved in with no deposit or their security deposit is for the $1500 a month rent (hopefully the latter).  Simply give them written notice that you are terminating the lease at the end of XXX giving them the legally required XX days' notice for your area.  This should work for most areas, but there are a few areas where it is much harder to remove a paying tenant. Where is the rental located?

For people that want shorter term rentals than 1 year, typically they should be paying higher than market value.

[Colleen F.]

@Luke Cullinane That's a big hike and I am guessing they probably can't afford it. You should have raised at a year 50-100 and they might have just moved then. Then you  could have raised again at 2 years. If you have no security deposit because they couldn't come up with one it's unlikely they have it now.  If you have given proper notice you will need to file for eviction if they don't leave. You could move at the same time on eviction and approaching them with a move out plan.  $500 is not going to do it. 

[Luke Cullinane]

Thank you for the response.  Rental is in Virginia.  I communicated I needed higher rent after the initial 6 months.  I agreed to the MTM situation thinking they would look for somewhere else they could afford.  They never paid any security deposit.  There is a 3 bedroom on the same road renting for $2700 and there aren’t any 3 bedrooms available for less than 2k a month.  

[Theresa Harris]

Quote from @Luke Cullinane:

Thank you for the response.  Rental is in Virginia.  I communicated I needed higher rent after the initial 6 months.  I agreed to the MTM situation thinking they would look for somewhere else they could afford.  They never paid any security deposit.  There is a 3 bedroom on the same road renting for $2700 and there aren’t any 3 bedrooms available for less than 2k a month.  

 Never rent a house without a security deposit.  I'd get them out and find new tenants.  Don't hand over the keys until you know all of the utilities that the tenant are required to pay as part of their lease are put in their name AND you have the deposit in full along with first month's rent.  When they sign the lease, get a down payment.  That down payment is non-refundable if they don't move it.  If they move in, that money then goes towards their deposit and is treated as such (ie they leave the place clean, no damages and all bills paid; they get that money back).  Put all of that in writing as part of the lease

[Nathan Gesner]

Never rent without a deposit, even on a month-to-month.

You've allowed this tenant to walk all over you for 18 months and now it will be hard to change course. 

I recommend you give them a 30-day notice of termination and make it clear that leaving is the only option. They can leave of their own accord, or you can evict them.

Start looking for an attorney.

[Luke Cullinane]

Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

Never rent without a deposit, even on a month-to-month.

You've allowed this tenant to walk all over you for 18 months and now it will be hard to change course. 

I recommend you give them a 30-day notice of termination and make it clear that leaving is the only option. They can leave of their own accord, or you can evict them.

Start looking for an attorney.

 Ok, thanks for the insight.  

[Richard F.]

Aloha,

Instead of "offering" a term with increase, you should just send a notice STATING X is the new rent amount, effective on a specified date, in accordance with local law timing requirements. That way, the increase goes into effect automatically. If they fail to PAY the increase, the now owe RENT, which you can then charge your late fee on, and/or initiate the eviction process.

I always provide options with the renewals- "Tenant agrees to new Terms"; "Tenant will vacate within (number of days per local law)"; or "Tenant proposes modification to terms, subject to review and approval by PM". A deadline is specified for the return of the notice with their choice indicated and signature.

Always require an increase of SD to match new rent rate.

[Bruce Woodruff]

As @Nathan Gesner and @Richard F. have noted, you're being way too nice...and they are taking full advantage. Use this as a learning experience, but just get them out...I don't like 'cash-for-keys', it smacks of bribery to me, and a Landlord should not have to do that. But I understand that sometimes that is the best way to go. But whatever you do, get them out and then rent to someone at full market rent with a solid security deposit.

Wouldn't it be nice to have an extra $500 in your pocket?

[Bud Gaffney]

@Luke Cullinane evict.

[James Hamling]

@Luke Cullinane you NEED a PM. 

Look, I applaud that you gave it a crack, but holly-cow you've done so much so wrong and now it's gonna cost you dearly, and honestly already is. 

This entire interaction with tenant is proof of that. How you went about it, what you all said, all wrong. Your literally training your tenant to F-you over. 

You started it all wrong by placing without SD which is just bizarre. Now you basically begged for a renewal with the weakest of approach. When go to a car dealer, do they beg you to pay the price making a list of why the price is what it is? No, this is the price, take it or move, end of story. 

Your clearly not qualified to do PM, so in short your hired a horrible person for the job, fire them and replace with a qualified person. Than, stay close to the process, ask questions, learn in a safe setting by seeing how it should be done and osmosis. No book can teach PM half as good or fast as hiring a great PM and staying close to the process. 

Think of it this way, would you rather learn about weight lifting/fitness by just randomly going to a gym and randomly doing whatever, or getting a book on it by A. Schwarzenegger, or by being  A. Schwarzenegger training partner, side-x-side at the gym together? 

A couple grand a year is an insane deal to be side-x-side with the A. Schwarzenegger of PM, right. Best tuition spent ever. 

[Nathan Harden]

Quote from @Luke Cullinane:

I have a single family home that is occupied by a tenant at the end of a 1 year month to month agreement.  Initially, We had a 6 month agreement at $1500 a month.  They stayed the 6 months and then a year, so 18 months total at that rent.  I expressed the need to raise rent given higher interest, taxes, and the need for improvements on the property (roof and decking need replacing).  I offered a 6 month rent at $1800 with full security deposit.  I got a lot of attitude and BS but no lease or security deposit.  I have offered “cash for keys” ,$500, if they can move out and I’ve explained they have the right to vacate at any time.  I think they will try to ride out the previous terms as long as they can because $1500 is cheap for a 3 bedroom in my area.  I want to validate the lease I presented that is dated Oct. 1.  I gave 30 days notice.  This tenant complains about the condition of the house constantly, yet they will not move out.  They have paid their rent but they have been late a few times.  I appreciate any advice you could share.

Thanks

 There is a real easy solution to this. Post the proper notice for them to vacate, period. If they can't afford to live there then that is not your problem. I'm all for helping people out but when I'm spending MY money, MY risk, MY investment, I could care less if they don't like the rent raise. Sounds heartless but it's the approach you have to have.

Would I like to pay less for my mortgage?? Absolutely! Wouldn't everyone want to live for cheaper? Obviously, but you have to protect you, your family, your investment. 

[Luke Cullinane]

Quote from @Nathan Harden:

Quote from @Luke Cullinane:

I have a single family home that is occupied by a tenant at the end of a 1 year month to month agreement.  Initially, We had a 6 month agreement at $1500 a month.  They stayed the 6 months and then a year, so 18 months total at that rent.  I expressed the need to raise rent given higher interest, taxes, and the need for improvements on the property (roof and decking need replacing).  I offered a 6 month rent at $1800 with full security deposit.  I got a lot of attitude and BS but no lease or security deposit.  I have offered “cash for keys” ,$500, if they can move out and I’ve explained they have the right to vacate at any time.  I think they will try to ride out the previous terms as long as they can because $1500 is cheap for a 3 bedroom in my area.  I want to validate the lease I presented that is dated Oct. 1.  I gave 30 days notice.  This tenant complains about the condition of the house constantly, yet they will not move out.  They have paid their rent but they have been late a few times.  I appreciate any advice you could share.

Thanks

 There is a real easy solution to this. Post the proper notice for them to vacate, period. If they can't afford to live there then that is not your problem. I'm all for helping people out but when I'm spending MY money, MY risk, MY investment, I could care less if they don't like the rent raise. Sounds heartless but it's the approach you have to have.

Would I like to pay less for my mortgage?? Absolutely! Wouldn't everyone want to live for cheaper? Obviously, but you have to protect you, your family, your investment. 

 Thanks Everyone!  I really appreciate you taking the time to read and respond!  Hopefully, I’m not being “too nice” by saying that.  Clearly, I have a lot to learn…looks like I came to the right place.  At least I got that right!  

[Nathan Harden]

Quote from @Luke Cullinane:

Quote from @Nathan Harden:

Quote from @Luke Cullinane:

I have a single family home that is occupied by a tenant at the end of a 1 year month to month agreement.  Initially, We had a 6 month agreement at $1500 a month.  They stayed the 6 months and then a year, so 18 months total at that rent.  I expressed the need to raise rent given higher interest, taxes, and the need for improvements on the property (roof and decking need replacing).  I offered a 6 month rent at $1800 with full security deposit.  I got a lot of attitude and BS but no lease or security deposit.  I have offered “cash for keys” ,$500, if they can move out and I’ve explained they have the right to vacate at any time.  I think they will try to ride out the previous terms as long as they can because $1500 is cheap for a 3 bedroom in my area.  I want to validate the lease I presented that is dated Oct. 1.  I gave 30 days notice.  This tenant complains about the condition of the house constantly, yet they will not move out.  They have paid their rent but they have been late a few times.  I appreciate any advice you could share.

Thanks

 There is a real easy solution to this. Post the proper notice for them to vacate, period. If they can't afford to live there then that is not your problem. I'm all for helping people out but when I'm spending MY money, MY risk, MY investment, I could care less if they don't like the rent raise. Sounds heartless but it's the approach you have to have.

Would I like to pay less for my mortgage?? Absolutely! Wouldn't everyone want to live for cheaper? Obviously, but you have to protect you, your family, your investment. 

 Thanks Everyone!  I really appreciate you taking the time to read and respond!  Hopefully, I’m not being “too nice” by saying that.  Clearly, I have a lot to learn…looks like I came to the right place.  At least I got that right!  

 It's a learning process. Even people who have been in the game for decades are still learning tricks of the trade.

The biggest thing is that you took the leap, earned some scars, learned some lessons and all of this will help you on your next investments.

Win or learn.

[James Hamling]

Quote from @Luke Cullinane:

Quote from @Nathan Harden:

Quote from @Luke Cullinane:

I have a single family home that is occupied by a tenant at the end of a 1 year month to month agreement.  Initially, We had a 6 month agreement at $1500 a month.  They stayed the 6 months and then a year, so 18 months total at that rent.  I expressed the need to raise rent given higher interest, taxes, and the need for improvements on the property (roof and decking need replacing).  I offered a 6 month rent at $1800 with full security deposit.  I got a lot of attitude and BS but no lease or security deposit.  I have offered “cash for keys” ,$500, if they can move out and I’ve explained they have the right to vacate at any time.  I think they will try to ride out the previous terms as long as they can because $1500 is cheap for a 3 bedroom in my area.  I want to validate the lease I presented that is dated Oct. 1.  I gave 30 days notice.  This tenant complains about the condition of the house constantly, yet they will not move out.  They have paid their rent but they have been late a few times.  I appreciate any advice you could share.

Thanks

 There is a real easy solution to this. Post the proper notice for them to vacate, period. If they can't afford to live there then that is not your problem. I'm all for helping people out but when I'm spending MY money, MY risk, MY investment, I could care less if they don't like the rent raise. Sounds heartless but it's the approach you have to have.

Would I like to pay less for my mortgage?? Absolutely! Wouldn't everyone want to live for cheaper? Obviously, but you have to protect you, your family, your investment. 

 Thanks Everyone!  I really appreciate you taking the time to read and respond!  Hopefully, I’m not being “too nice” by saying that.  Clearly, I have a lot to learn…looks like I came to the right place.  At least I got that right!  

It's a common misconception that there is anything to do with "nice" or "mean", it's neither. I am NEVER mean, never, I am DIRECT, and directing. I have actually had tenant's say "Man, I've never had anyone tell me such scarry sh#t so nicely and with a smile on their face, and look, I'm terrified but I'm smiling, lol". That was a negotiated surrender, and I was nice, heck I was down-right friendly as i laid out the options of work together or, don't, in which case they can expect eviction in conjunction with suite for judgement, possibly garnishments, possibly even seizing of assets, all kinds of ugly, but hey, it's their choice as they are steering the car, their choice if down the road or off a cliff. 

Being good at PM is NOT being mean, it's actually about being helpful. Helpful is being direct and directing. It's having a process, knowing what your doing and every action, every word is with intent and purpose. Even pointless banter, is with a point and reason. 

When it comes to tenants, everything I do is with intelligent design down to my use of the word "you" or "we", it's with intelligent design. 

There is a saying that a person can learn from their mistakes, or from everyone else's. That's the truth of hiring a PM, your "life hacking", because what your really buying is that experience pool. So hiring a PM with a puddle of knowledge, yeah pointless. Hiring one spanning decades and thousands of tid-bits of experience, priceless. 

That's what I am advocating, get that experience in their running things, than absorb their knowledge. 

[Brandon L.]

Quote from @Luke Cullinane:

I have a single family home that is occupied by a tenant at the end of a 1 year month to month agreement.  Initially, We had a 6 month agreement at $1500 a month.  They stayed the 6 months and then a year, so 18 months total at that rent.  I expressed the need to raise rent given higher interest, taxes, and the need for improvements on the property (roof and decking need replacing).  I offered a 6 month rent at $1800 with full security deposit.  I got a lot of attitude and BS but no lease or security deposit.  I have offered “cash for keys” ,$500, if they can move out and I’ve explained they have the right to vacate at any time.  I think they will try to ride out the previous terms as long as they can because $1500 is cheap for a 3 bedroom in my area.  I want to validate the lease I presented that is dated Oct. 1.  I gave 30 days notice.  This tenant complains about the condition of the house constantly, yet they will not move out.  They have paid their rent but they have been late a few times.  I appreciate any advice you could share.

Thanks

 What part of Virginia are you in?

[Sophia Buckley]

@Luke Cullinane depending on what your lease says. If you provided an official notice to vacate and they do not, it might be time to file for an eviction unfortunately.