We are under contract on an over/under duplex and in a sticky situation... I need help! So, we were supposed to close on this property Friday Sept 4th. However, closing was pushed back maybe a week or so according to the bank (their problem, they couldn't get it ready in time and lots of closings were delayed). 

The sellers signed an early occupancy agreement so we moved our stuff in this past week on Tuesday (we had moved it from out of state and in a uhaul and did not want to have to move it out of the uhaul and into another storage unit only to move it again or pay to keep the uhaul a long time until we closed and were able to move it in). So they let us move our stuff in the vacant unit early. Now that closing is pushed for at least another week or so, its a little tricky because we are living here, but it's not technically "ours" yet.

We moved out of the apartment we were renting yesterday and stayed out first night in this "soon to be ours" duplex. We are house-hacking and living in the lower level with an established tenant upstairs who is great.

The problem--- we stayed here for the first time last night and used the shower. Water began leaking from under the trim around the wall which encloses the shower piping (they did some updates to this unit before selling, but things appear very cheap, not done professionally and pretty much used peel and stick everything). I was able to access the panel behind the shower head/faucet from the opposite wall in the hallway and see there is water leaking from the pipes, very rusted material and it does not look pretty. 

This is not even technically our home yet and I have no clue what to do- I hate even using the shower knowing there is a leak. This could be very spendy to fix, and I feel like I can't even call a plumber to come take a look because it isn't even our house! We love the layout and location of this duplex, it is in pretty good shape (or so appeared to be) other than some cosmetic things they did a cheap job updating. The house DOES make sense with the numbers being where they are now, but not with a potential huge thing to fix right away. The seller was so upset about the closing being delayed he wanted to call the whole thing off anyway and has been a huge pain to deal with the whole time- its a FSBO and its been a nightmare from day 1. Maybe this is our chance to get out before signing the papers and yes, lose our earnest money, but take it as a loss and move on, knowing we dodged a bullet??? I need all the help I can get and FAST- I have no idea what to do.

Thank you guys! 

Just that one repair should be small,  a hundred bucks maybe to maybe 1500 if you also replace the fixture and all the tile around the shower.  You have possession now, get into everything and find the problems. Get a plumber in ASAP to look at it and the rest of the duplex.  Also get a roofer or inspector up in the attic and whatnot to look at that, maybe an electrician to look around too.. should have happened during the inspection but home inspectors can miss a lot... Total up the repairs and see what the damage will be vs walking away from earnest money.

@Nicky Reader thanks for your quick reply--- I posted some pictures. It's hard to see but I turned on the water in the tub and was able to access from a panel and see the pipes from the tub... they were actively leaking and that was where we had been smelling "basement/water/mold." I feel like it will be more of a job to have to access/replace these pipes, repair dry wall and the floor. Thoughts? 

I would start off with a conversation with the seller.  I would say, "Hey, we can't wait to get the deal done, but have a question / concern about the plumbing in the bathroom.  We had this issue with the leaking pipe and would like to ask that it be fixed to not damage the unit."

Even though you are outside your inspection period, he may opt to fix this for you to hold the deal together.  Or, if he is being a 'jerk', he might say, "not my issue".  At that point you have to pick your path.  Typically a problem like a leaking pipe behind a wall is a rusted out pipe of some sort.  It's likely a one off issue, and will probably cost $300 to fix (just best guess based on previous bills of mine).  It will also probably require some patching of the wall that might add to that a bit... but "Hey, old houses break".  This wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, even if he said "This is on you"   IF I LIKED THE PLACE and thought I still wanted it.  I would just approach it from a friendly perspective, see where it gets you.  

Ask yourself which you would rather lose, the $300 it takes to fix it, or the $2,000 (or whatever it was that was your escrow)?  If you think this is a sign of other unknown problems that you now just want to bail on, that is always your choice as the buyer.  The deal isn't done until its closed.

Randy

Depending on how long the leak has been going on, you could be looking at some big repairs. I purchased a duplex that had a leak in one of the bathrooms for some time. The floor joist under that section was completely rotten away, as in not even there, just two ends nothing in the middle. 

@Ryan Avila the pictures I posted weren't great, but it seems they had maybe accessed the wall there before? The red arrow is where the water was leaking from under the trim. And it's also hard to see but the pipes are dripping into what just appears to be dirt... but also have to be leaking elsewhere to be able to build up and come through under the trim. I'm afraid if these pipes need replaced it could be a larger job to even access them. 

@Randall Alan thank you! I have emailed the seller and waiting to hear back. I am trying to get a plumber out here, but it being the weekend it is also tough. I have a very strong feeling that the sellers will not offer to do anything, as all of the previous discussions and negotiations have not been great and we were doing all of the compromising. For him, it is all about $$$ down to the last dime, as I said its FSBO. We do like the property and location. And yes, older homes have their issues. They all will have some kind of problems. Just wasn't planning on having such a large issue so soon- and haven't even signed papers!

Originally posted by @Leslie Crosten :

 That kind of looks like its a leaking copper tub overflow and drain line that goes into a P trap, but is it buried in dirt?? Is there dirt touching the wood joists?  That is way more concerning than the leak if that's true, termites and other wood eating insects will go from dirt to joists and cause havoc, especially in wet wood. 

If its a drain line, can try tightening that connector. If its a supply line, can do the same but shut off water first of course.    

If that is not copper but galvanized metal, those may have to be replaced soon, another thing to ask plumber. Galvanized metal pipes were common in the 40s and 50s (the era of all the rentals I own) and I rip it all out for every rehab I do. Its usually totally shot on the inside, like layers of puffy rust.  Also, it will make drains run slow which may be another reason this joint is leaking (water is staying in it longer than it should be as the tub drains) 

@Nicky Reader please hang tight- Im taking more pictures. Please take a look if you can. I do not know if they are copper or galvanized metal? Also, yes they appear to go through concrete foundation and into dirt. The wood I can see looks okay, nothing obvious to me anyway, it's just the pipes leaking and dripping into the dirt and also YES it does drain slowly.... you're right. 

My guess is that it is the “tub shoe”which is the fitting at the base of the drain.  They rust out.   The tube going up is likely the shower line.  Guess it depends did on if it is leaking high from the tube, or low (below the tub)

Randy 

You should run the tub with it set for “bath”... see if water leaks out of the bottom of the tub..  then drain that water and see if it leaks then too.  if yes, it’s likely the shoe.  

Then try running the shower with the Tub set to hold the water, see if water drips down from the tube.  If yes, it’s in the shower line.  These should help isolate where the problem is.

Randy 

@Leslie Crosten  Hi, Leslie, just a moment: Calling all cars, calling all cars: @Bill Kramer @JD Martin @Randy E. @Matt R. @Steven Ko , @George W.

Hi, Leslie, I am a long-service handyman who handles almost all the plumbing in his own properties. I'm asking others to take a look at this and add to, verify, or contradict what I'm saying here about it, as I am not a professional plumber and I've been wrong plenty of times.

First of all, @Nicky Reader , sorry to contradict you by 34%, but I think that's actually a brass drain/overflow assembly (brass is 66% copper). Brass overflow assemblies are common in older installations and still used in modern high-quality plumbing installations, although polypropylene drain/overflow assembles are largely taking over the market. So so far, so good. The reason brass assemblies are still holding on is that they control the sound of draining water better than plastics do, they are "quieter."

There should be no dirt in that box, unless it was added as some kind of makeshift sound control. Being that the drain is brass, I am puzzled that there is dirt in that box, and yes, that may be a cause for concern. I suspect, however, that it isn't dirt. I think the whole thing is buried in concrete with a thin mortar topping. I can see that the tub is resting on a naked joist, without some kind of platform supporting it. That's how they used to mount cast iron tubs, so I think that's what we're looking at here. The joists were lowered and a thick mortar and later concrete bed was put in, with tile installed on top. I own a number of older properties with this kind of tile installation, and I've smashed up a number of cast iron tubs to remove them.

You clearly believe the drain is leaking at the point where the assembly connects to the tub. That is thankfully pretty easy to verify, since you can actually see and illuminate the connection. 

Nicky has also pointed out that below the drain assembly p-trap may be copper. Yes, the water outflow looks pretty thin there, and since plumbing codes have insisted that drainage be 1 1/2 inches in internal diameter for a very long time, I suspect he's right. Copper drainage piping was unusual in most places but I've seen it in the past, usually in high-risk situations. Specifically that would be, the upper level drainage plumbing of an over-under duplex. embedded directly in a concrete, mortar, or hybrid bed.

I once saw a place with a full copper stack here in the 'Burgh -- never forget that one.

The hypothesis that this tub is really is leaking out of a corroded p-trap is further strengthened by where we see the water coming out. That's flat-out-weird, Leslie. Water's not supposed to channel and come out there. There have clearly also been makeshift repairs previously done to this area, indicating that this is a long-term problem.

OK:

IF all or some of the things that I have hypothesized are true, Leslie, this is going to be a moderately expensive plumbing fix. If it's leaking from the connection between the tub drain and the assembly, that will be cheap, but I suspect it isn't, not with those symptoms.

Diagnotics:

1. Run the tub while watching the connection with the drain in the beam of a flashlight. If you see water, you're right. If not, it's leaking elsewhere in the drainage assembly, perhaps the p-trap.

2. Don't run the shower for the day and leave the bathroom door closed. Does the bathroom stink up? If it does. that's a dead giveaway that the p-trap is leaking out and sewer gases are coming out the drain. That's going to cost money to fix IF I'm right and that isn't dirt in that drain box.

3. If you don't smell anything, or just notice a very slight smell, then the leak is happening further down than the p-trap. That is also a possibility, and again, that will also be expensive news.

Final observations

If it was me buying this duplex, I wouldn't back out of the sale. If you're planning on demoing the bathroom, I wouldn't back out of the sale. But from what I understand, this is a simple househack. You expected this apartment to be livable from Day One, it was sold to you as such, and it isn't. Mr. FSBO is trying to sneak you a lemon, which sadly happens pretty frequently around here. You're in a bind.

If Mr. FSBO was willing to try to sneak this clear existing chronic problem by you, there could be a large number of other things wrong with the duplex just waiting for you to find them. This happens pretty frequently with older duplexes. The deferred maintenance piles up and up, and much of it is like this. Finally, the owner finally realizes he doesn't want to keep up with the maintenance and sells.

How deep do you want to get into real estate rehabbing, Leslie? If you're willing to start your rehab learning now, I would stick with this. If not, well, you're going to need to think hard about buying duplexes of this age in the future. This property is at least sixty years old, I can guarantee that. If that's all that's available in your area, as it is mine, definitely, start learning.

Whatever you choose to do, there's going to be some pain with this one, both pocket pain paying for plumbing and learning how to deal with rehab. Think about what you want as an investor going forward and make your decision. But if it's not to deal with property issues like this, don't buy anything built before 1970.

It looks like you just need a tub waste. Looks lik you're on a shallow dirt floor crawl? 

@Jim K.

Heres what i can see:

The brass shoe is leaking at that nut. The pipe touches or rubs against the wooden floor cutout. This is what is giving the water the path outside under the trim and into the room.

But i see another huge problem. Look where that ptrap connects...galvanized drain line. The dirt is washout from years of leaks. But from where? Either at the initial brass to galvanize connection point (they never connect those in any manner that lasts) or just past it.

It ok though. You got a timebomb on your hands, and its one you can manage. Start saving up for a tub swap out. As long as there is no stank, dont worry. Once the tub is out, plan on replacing as much of the metal pipes as you can.

@Leslie Crosten

Does it have mold where it’s been leaking? If not, It probably hasn’t been leaking for too long. And if your handy you can most likely fix it yourself. Also to put the whole thing into perspective, your gonna have things that come up, it’s just part of having a house. I’d just call a plumber get a quote and then run your numbers. I doubt it’ll change too much. In any case I wish you well.

@Bill Kramer no stank such as?? Thank you for the reply! Also, I’m not sure if perhaps the line going up to the shower part is leaking and coming down, then able to seep under the wall? Because these other pipes leaking don’t really (from what I can see) don’t drip into a “floor” or somewhere that can gather, then go under the wall.

@Leslie Crosten the stank would be methane (think farts)

https://photos.app.goo.gl/XTajpJUD3NMuwFPg8

The app wont let me show photos...

In this picture there are 4 identifiable leak points.

1) tub drain connection: this could be leaking water running alongside bottom of tub and then out the wall. Doubtful

2) The wet washer: this obviously needs tightening.

3) ptrap to cast connection: possible but doubtful as it is below floor line

4) cast iron drain: You say you have slow drainage. This is definitely starting to clog causing a backup of water which then backs up the pipe sometimes to the washer.

Try snaking the drain to see if that helps with flow which should then help with leaks.

Originally posted by @George W. :

It looks like you just need a tub waste. Looks lik you're on a shallow dirt floor crawl? 

 She mentioned it's an over-under duplex. Do they build those on that kind of foundation?

Originally posted by @Bill Kramer :

@Jim K.

Heres what i can see:

The brass shoe is leaking at that nut. The pipe touches or rubs against the wooden floor cutout. This is what is giving the water the path outside under the trim and into the room.

But i see another huge problem. Look where that ptrap connects...galvanized drain line. The dirt is washout from years of leaks. But from where? Either at the initial brass to galvanize connection point (they never connect those in any manner that lasts) or just past it.

It ok though. You got a timebomb on your hands, and its one you can manage. Start saving up for a tub swap out. As long as there is no stank, dont worry. Once the tub is out, plan on replacing as much of the metal pipes as you can.

Galvanized drain line? I suspected it was copper because it was so thin. But then again, at that age, a lot is possible. I agree that a tub swap out is the only real solution.

@Jim K. I meant cast iron. Its brass connected to cast iron