Tenant refusing my entrance of property due to COVID
My current tenants are both medical doctors and refuse to let me inspect my property. They say I can't enter due to state and federal regulations and their professions.
I think they could be using COVID as an cover to not let me see the condition of the property and the extra 2 dogs. They should be paying $100 more per month for the dogs and I think have breached the contract due to not telling me about them. In addition to that, the neighbors have complained that one of the dogs wandering the neighborhood.
There is 7 months left on their lease and it states: "Expect the landlord to inspect the property approximately 1 time every 3 months. Landlord will agree to follow social distancing requirement including staying 6 feed distance and wearing masks or any other protective gear that tenant requires."...."No animals or pets shall be kept on the premises without the consent of the landlord"
If I go the legal route I am afraid they may damage the property more than the security deposit and cost me thousands in legal fees to pay for the damages. All that being said, I am leaning toward the more passive approach and waiting until they are done with the quarantine.
In addition to that, they had the house tested for radon found the level is high so they are saying that I have put their family at risk and want me to pay for a mitigation system. This I may just pay for because I do care about the health of anyone in my rental.
Any advice would be awesome!
Thank you!
Cole
@Cole Fleishour In Florida you must
advise your tenants with a minimum 12 hr notice of inspection prior to entering a unit. If your tenants signed the lease indicating that you perform inspections they are bound by it. You may also want to check your local laws.How do they suppose a Radon test can be done? A professional needs to enter the property. You may take the necessary measures of your municipality regarding Covid upon entering the unit to comply , however they can not prevent you from from entering your property because of Covid. It appears they do not want you to enter because they are violating the terms of their lease in some fashion. If in fact they have any pets that you are not aware of please advise them of the additional fees and or deposit unless they provide a letter from a physician indicating the need for the dog. I would urge you to stick to the the provisions of your lease and make no exceptions , as this will make your experiences as a landlord much easier.
Hope this helps. Best of luck!
@Cole Fleishour
Wow! I just love Bigger Pockets! Where else can you get so many awesome view points and advice based on real world experience in a few hours. You all are great!
By the way I just had an hour long conversation with both boyfriend and girlfriend that went really well. I voiced my concerns and they did also helping both of us to be human and see each other’s perspectives. We learned in the future that phone calls are better than texts for conflict resolution.
On the dog situation I have no rights unfortunately since it’s an ADA animal and it’s seen as a medical device.
She is sick now but said if I sign a paper that I will not sue if I get sick I can enter the property. That was appreciated. I plan to come at the install of the radon mitigation.
I think all is well again.
Thank you all!
@Cole Fleishour A couple things that I thought of reading this thread.
A doctor can not write a script for themselves or their family. You could check their paperwork. Arrogant people often know some niche laws but don't cross their t-s. They may be assuming they can get a colleague to do it for them; but at this point they would have to back date it (fraud)... and prescription pads are numbered for tracking purposes. You can't write 22566 yesterday and 22567 five months ago. If its a legit service animal... why wouldn't they have disclosed it?
Also, if pets are a concern, you don't have to enter the residence to prove their presence. You could have hired a PI to get some nice video of them going out for a morning walk cheap.
@Cole Fleishour Other thing: to be exempt, that service dog needs to be THEIR service dog. A dog in training, or a registered dog that they happen to own should not exempt them from the pet fee. A service dog 🐕🦺 is about $30k, but getting your golden into a training program and calling it your ADA dog could be cheap cover.
@Cole Fleishour
I'm going to echo a couple of the other posts that suggest moving these tenants out. They are displaying a complete lack of respect for you and your property. Allowing that type of behavior will create a constant level of stress that's simply not worth it.
For these tenants, I see the following red flags:
1. Refusing an inspection. If these restrictions existed, the tenants should have mentioned prior to signing the lease.
2. Aggravating factor for #1 flag. Not seeing a definite reschedule date for the inspection. They are basically telling you that your contract with them is meaningless.
3. Moving in pets without disclosing. They looked at the lease, they read no pets allowed and at no time thought that this was something you should know.
4. Aggravating factor for #3 flag. Not telling you about ESA/ADA pet exemption they are claiming until you asked about the pets.
5. Informing you that their health is being endangered by you because of radon. This is one of those vague threats of taking action against you if you attempt to enforce your rights.
Any one of these I would let slide on its own, but taken together, this is a pattern of behavior that will not improve with age.
First thing I would do is offer to release them from the lease because of the concern they recorded over the rain findings without penalty for early termination. I would advise them that you feel this is the most prudent amount because you won't know what steps will be necessary, how large the renovation project to protect the health of tenants will be our how long it will take. Now that the danger has been made known, you don't want them to feel that you are forcing them to leave in possibly hazardous conditions. It's important to make that offer before you retest or get estimates for the remediation so you can honestly say you don't know how long. If they choose to stay from here, they can no longer retaliate with hazardous environmental claims.
At the same time, advise them that you will be inspecting and retest for radon so you can verify hazardous environment. If they refuse, give them notice of violation of contract. Tell them they are free to leave the home and if they want to witness the inspection, they may watch the inspection through FaceTime. My suspicion is that they aren't concerned about what you would see on video, it's what you will smell.
Document the neighbors complaints about the loose dog and confirm what ordinance the tenant's are violating. HUD has issued new guidance in January tightening requirements for tenants who claim ESA status for their animals. The questionnaire is in a tree form and provides the exact questions you can ask and documents that you can request. If the tenant cannot produce these, their animal is not considered ESA and you can collect your additional fees. I would issue a cure or quit advising the tenants that complaints of the dog wandering loose have been made to you. Advise them that further complaints will be considered a lease violation and you will evict for those reasons.
They will either change their behavior or you will reclaim your property. There are no real questions here, so there isn't anything to have a legal battle over. You are simply enforcing your rights as agreed to under the lease both parties signed.
In my opinion, these are the worst kind of tenants. They create a few minor annoyances at every encounter with them that will create a Pavlovian response of dread every time you see their name. The final insult to the ordeal is the fact that they always pay their rent on time, in full, every time.
Good luck.
Originally posted by @Ron Galli:@Cole Fleishour A couple things that I thought of reading this thread.
A doctor can not write a script for themselves or their family. You could check their paperwork. Arrogant people often know some niche laws but don't cross their t-s. They may be assuming they can get a colleague to do it for them; but at this point they would have to back date it (fraud)... and prescription pads are numbered for tracking purposes. You can't write 22566 yesterday and 22567 five months ago. If its a legit service animal... why wouldn't they have disclosed it?
Also, if pets are a concern, you don't have to enter the residence to prove their presence. You could have hired a PI to get some nice video of them going out for a morning walk cheap.
This is a business. While you may be correct. How many thousands of dollars would you care to spend to prove a point with a paying tenant? Common sense must prevail at some point with a goal on maximizing one's return. But...what do I know being in this business for 30+ years with no lawsuits
#3 Managing Your Property Contributor
They are right about the ESA or service dog (they are NOT the same). Ask for documentation, so you are covered if your insurance says anything. I doubt both dogs are service dogs-I could see one, but not two.
Talking on the phone is a good solution. As for the radon mitigation, come lease renewal, make sure you increase their rent to cover increased costs.
@Greg H. Asking to see the supporting documents would cost $0.00. When I was a PI I probably would have provided you a nice 5 minute HD video of the tenant walking out of the house with pooch for its morning business for $200. I would have been sure to get good details like the house number on the door, GPS location and clear face shots via 36x zoom just for dramatic effect. The pet policy would net him $1200 in due funds through the year lease if they are just trying to pull one over; which seems probable considering they didn't disclose the pet initially and came out swinging with legeleze. Additionally, if they are going to be jerks with veiled threats about radon; this could give him the ability to send them packing IF he chooses to. How would your maximized profits go if they do try to drum up some charges and sue? The good old in management says 80% of your headaches come from 20% of your people. These seem to be 20%ers to me. I don't care what they do... just the whole thing is setting off alarm bells to me.
I'm not suggesting anyone spend thousands on anything. The man asked for thoughts and I provided a couple out of the box insights that I hand's seen mentioned yet. Congrats on the track record Greg.
Originally posted by @Ron Galli:@Greg H. Asking to see the supporting documents would cost $0.00. When I was a PI I probably would have provided you a nice 5 minute HD video of the tenant walking out of the house with pooch for its morning business for $200. I would have been sure to get good details like the house number on the door, GPS location and clear face shots via 36x zoom just for dramatic effect. The pet policy would net him $1200 in due funds if they are just trying to pull one over; which seems probable considering they didn't disclose the pet initially and came out swinging with legeleze. Additionally, if they are going to be jerks with veiled threats about radon; this could give him the ability to send them packing IF he chooses to. I'm not suggesting anyone spend thousands on anything. Just pointing out a few thought.
PI, Small claims suit, appeal, lost rent, make ready, any costs of renting the property etc etc etc.... thousands of dollars to prove a point. ALL while having a paying tenant.
Originally posted by @Greg H.:Originally posted by @Ron Galli:@Greg H. Asking to see the supporting documents would cost $0.00. When I was a PI I probably would have provided you a nice 5 minute HD video of the tenant walking out of the house with pooch for its morning business for $200. I would have been sure to get good details like the house number on the door, GPS location and clear face shots via 36x zoom just for dramatic effect. The pet policy would net him $1200 in due funds if they are just trying to pull one over; which seems probable considering they didn't disclose the pet initially and came out swinging with legeleze. Additionally, if they are going to be jerks with veiled threats about radon; this could give him the ability to send them packing IF he chooses to. I'm not suggesting anyone spend thousands on anything. Just pointing out a few thought.
PI, Small claims suit, appeal, lost rent, make ready, any costs of renting the property etc etc etc.... thousands of dollars to prove a point. ALL while having a paying tenant.
So, would you NOT enforce your contract to keep them in the unit? If they are lying, he is owed $1200 more, and if they aren't, why would they hide it? If they are legit service animals then it is case closed anyway, but it seems like the burden of proof would be upon them. If they are claiming service animal status you would think they would have their licenses with them, not just make the claim.
Originally posted by @Cole Fleishour:My current tenants are both medical doctors and refuse to let me inspect my property. They say I can't enter due to state and federal regulations and their professions.
I think they could be using COVID as an cover to not let me see the condition of the property and the extra 2 dogs. They should be paying $100 more per month for the dogs and I think have breached the contract due to not telling me about them. In addition to that, the neighbors have complained that one of the dogs wandering the neighborhood.
There is 7 months left on their lease and it states: "Expect the landlord to inspect the property approximately 1 time every 3 months. Landlord will agree to follow social distancing requirement including staying 6 feed distance and wearing masks or any other protective gear that tenant requires."...."No animals or pets shall be kept on the premises without the consent of the landlord"If I go the legal route I am afraid they may damage the property more than the security deposit and cost me thousands in legal fees to pay for the damages. All that being said, I am leaning toward the more passive approach and waiting until they are done with the quarantine.
In addition to that, they had the house tested for radon found the level is high so they are saying that I have put their family at risk and want me to pay for a mitigation system. This I may just pay for because I do care about the health of anyone in my rental. Any advice would be awesome! Thank you! Cole
Your comment: "My current tenants are both medical doctors"
Two doctors RENTING in OHIO?
Are you Sure they are doctors? What Kind of doctors? Seems a bit strange.
@Cole Fleishour
@Joe Splitrock
@Mary M.
Joe, spot on sensible comments - inspections, radon, animals.
Mary, refreshing display of "not-so-common" common sense.
Radon:
Really simple for this one, if they want the test, then get it tested. If they have a professional they have contacted, and trust to enter the home, then proceed. Treat them right and show respect. They are paying for your home and in a employment class with job security. Count your blessings and be thankful.
Inspection:
I love the idea of facetime or even a video they can upload to to you with a checklist of what you need to see. This respects the privacy and health concerns we are all dealing with in our own families too. I would not be so quick to force the issue to enter the unit.
Tread lightly here. Here in Massachusetts as of Saturday at midnight Oct 17th we ended one of the toughest Eviction Moratoriums in the country under COVID. But now, we are all under the Federal CDC guidelines for evictions. Our state-wide landlord association of over 1,700 members had a scheduled zoom call with the head Clerk Magistrate the week before end of the MA moratorium. We only had 98 people on the zoom call.
If this is any indication of how landlords are responding to all of this across the country, I would hit the pause button for just a second here. The landscape for the rules and regulations for evictions, inspections, showings, and just about everything having to do with you "entering your own property" have changed. What has not changed, is your property is "someone else's home". Please, never lose sight that rental property is a customer service business. I know, I know, I hear it from owners all the time as a property manager. "It's my building, I can go in if I want to." This is usually a sign that we are not in alignment in our owner manager relationship values and is a sign for the beginning of the end.
So I guess I would say to get educated on the new ground rules and be respectful of those rules. It is going to be a matter of time before someone figures out a way to sue the landlord because of covid. After the zoom call, several of us got on a call to decipher where this is all headed. And our expert answer is, we don't know.
So try to treat this situation as if it were your grandma living in your rental (assuming you like your grandma) and try to be as accommodating, and reasonable as possible. Be sympathetic to each situation on a case by case basis. In any case, or how ever you choose to approach this - get educated first!!
After almost 20 years at this game my feeling is the rules have all just been changed overnight and what we knew and trusted as landlord tenant law has been erased and we are living on a new planet. I would treat this situation as such.
CDC Declaration Form
https://www.cdc.gov/coronaviru...
CDC Eviction FAQ
https://www.cdc.gov/coronaviru...
Read up on the new regulations. An eviction with results in death from covid can get you a $500K fine or up to a year in jail. Lessor acts can still result in $200K lawsuits. Don't get me wrong, I love our attorneys, but I do not want to poke this bear.
Animals:
We have taken the word "pets" out of our marketing literature and replaced it with the word "animals". There is a sense of entitlement saturating our country and everyone and their brother feels it is their right to have an aggressive breed as a member of the family. Again, there are serious issues where residents truly do need an animal for emotional support (ESA), companionship (CA), or service (SA). We take these requests very seriously and do not just blurt out, "sorry, no pets allowed." Again going back to the grandma analogy, a little compassion here goes a long way. Whenever asked, "Do you take pets?" our response is always, "We follow all fair housing rules and regulations" and do not get into the specifics. Below is an excerpt from our 16-page rental application.
Animals: How many animals do you have that you want in the rental property?
(Please list all Type(s), Breed(s), Weight & Age)
No#: _____ Type(s): ________________________ Breed(s): _______________________ Weight: __________ Age: ____
What type of animal are you requesting to have? [ ] Emotional Support [ ] Companionship [ ] Service [ ] Pet
Notes: _________________________________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
All requests for animals require the following:
• ESA, SA, or CA Paperwork
• Confirmed medical records for rabies shot
• Animal Registration (if required)
• Animal/Renter Insurance Policy naming landlord as additionally insured
• Local City/Town License (dog tags)
• Any required Training Documentation
There is also an untapped market renting to "pets" as well. If you are taking the proper precautions up front on requiring this type of documentation, then down the road, if the beastie shows up without the required documentation, it is a lot easier to evict for breach of clause. We have found when we do allow the animal, we have a long term resident because not many landlords will allow animals. It all depends on the property too. I would be more open to a small dog with a big yard, than a big dog with a small yard. It respects the animal too.
Truly hope this helps to put things into perspective in the ever shifting horizon we are all trying to navigate.
-
Property Manager
- Belaire Property Management
Originally posted by @Walt B Philip:You really think a couple of doctors are going to risk their professional reputations trashing a house? Go with the Skype inspection for now, maybe consider they already have a job to do and don’t want the risk exsposureun their living space.
If you’re really worried about the dogs just start charging them
You’d be surprised, just because someone has a medical profession does not mean they don’t live like slobs.
My opinion is you dictate the rules, and you stick by them. That’s what makes a good landlord and a successful business.
@Michael Deering
HIPPA violations? Lol. Are they keeping patient files at their home? Crazy what they come up with!
@Cole Fleishour I believe they still need to provide legal documentation and approval from the state...?
Just a random creative silly suggestion... Maybe you can buy a Richo Theta Panoramic camera, so you don't miss any spot send it to them and ant they can placed them in every room and you get the full panoramic
It sounds like there are a lot of factors at play here. A "service dog" wouldn't be out wandering the neighborhood. Anyone can buy a service dog registration kit at PetSmart for $15 and buy a vest online. I like the idea of doing the inspection and radon test at the same time. In Alabama, you can enter the home for any reason with a 48 hour notice. We schedule quarterly inspections to check the fire extinguishers, smoke alarms, air filters, and leaks under the sinks, which helps mitigate problems that would affect the health and safety of the tenant and costly repairs for the owner. Adding an inspection clause to your lease would be the way to go next time you sign. Best of luck!
@Cole Fleishour
Cole, you need to sue them, man. Civil court.
@ Marc Macialek yeah I guess and apparently the husband who called to yell at me has the Hippa waiver to see all the medical files his wife stores at home. This crew is the example of ‘just smart enough to be dangerous’
Not sure if this would apply to emotional support animals, but legal questions you can ask about service animals: (1) Is the service animal required because of a disability; and (2) What work or task has the animal been trained to perform?
@Cole Fleishour under Nevada law this is true. Not because they are doctors, but because the no inspecting is real for everyone. As for support animals, well almost anyone can get a letter of the internet.
I'm a little confused about the quarantine. Are they actively quarantined?
@Cole Fleishour file an eviction and be done.
- Real Estate Broker | Investor | Property Manager
- Plantation, FL
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In FL you can enter as the owner with notice. If "reasonable effort" made to arrange a mutually amicable time does not happen, the owner can enter the property. Most owners don't want to pull this card because it causes...long-term relationship issues with the tenants.
@ steven wilson,
couldn't disagree with you more. generally the medical community is a group who find themselves to be 'special', entitled and above every rule and regulation.
Cole may need to hire a covid astute attorney to send the demand letter; they usually respond to that, and not much else.
Just one person's opinion...
Originally posted by @Account Closed:For those of you that don't think he should go inside his own house:
Do you keep a set keys for your rentals? If you won't ever go inside without asking first if you can, what are the keys for? Why not just knock like everybody else?
The only reason I bother keeping track of a whole bunch of keys is so that I may use them at any time I like. If the tenant is too much of a weirdo go while they are at work. Or better yet get rid of them.
Here in NC, I can enter the unit at any time without notice. Usually I try to give them 24 hours notice because I'm not an *******, but legally, I can come in at 3AM unannounced. You can bet if they become a problem unannounced inspections may start. Unannounced visits are also a great way to catch animals doing things they shouldn't. Even if your laws prohibit this, you can still probably appear outside anytime.
In Texas, a landlord can also enter at a time that is reasonable. So what do you think the life expectancy is of landlords that try to enter at 3am because they can?