Upstate NY STR Friendly Towns
I've been looking to invest in upstate NY in areas such as Rhinebeck, Catskill, Hudson, Newburgh, Saugerties, and Kerhonkson. I know Woodstock and Olivebridge are very restrictive but am wondering which towns don't have severe limits on the number of days per calendar year that you can rent your property short term. Any recommendations?
I don't believe Newburgh has any restrictions on STR's.
Ellenville requires multi family properties to be owner occupied for at least one unit, which has killed a few deals for me.
Hunter and Windham are very STR friendly. I'm an out of state, first-time investor up there. Let me know if you ever wanna connect on specific topics!
Hey Jenelle!
I currently own a STR here in the city of Newburgh, which has been a lucrative and successful venture. We owner occupy one unit of our duplex and STR the smaller unit. We opened up our doors at the height of COVID in February 2020. Our average occupancy is 18 days per month and there is currently no limit on occupancy days. Open to answering more questions you may have specific to Newburgh.
Be sure to keep a pulse on demand in upstate NY as you underwrite … I was looking in Hunter/ Windham but have noticed revenues fall off a cliff in March/ April (vs 2021) … not saying you can’t find a great deal that returns, but be conservative w/ your revenue assumptions bc the pandemic years could have been an anomaly. Pricelabs and Airdna have the info you need. Good luck!
update on Hunter/ Windham area for anyone reading these threads ... shoulder season revenues continue falling off a cliff vs 2021 ... will be interesting to see how the summer goes. A lot of folks visiting these areas were from NYC ... deep pockets ... people who would normally get on planes to fly to Colorado/Florida/Caribbean, etc. I wonder if they're simply returning to old travel patterns ... we'll see
Quote from @Yon Jones:
Hey Jenelle!
I currently own a STR here in the city of Newburgh, which has been a lucrative and successful venture. We owner occupy one unit of our duplex and STR the smaller unit. We opened up our doors at the height of COVID in February 2020. Our average occupancy is 18 days per month and there is currently no limit on occupancy days. Open to answering more questions you may have specific to Newburgh.
Hi Yon!
I'm a new investor in Upstate NY and from my experience in the Poconos, STR ordinances are tightening up everywhere! My question for you is if there's a similar situation in upstate NY? I know town of Lloyd just passed an ordinance to regulate STR and I was interested in Highland. Newburgh is much closer for me but I can't find anything in the town's ordinance that says STR is allowed but also nothing that says it's not allowed. What's your experience so far with the neighbors there knowing you're a STR and if you needed to register for a permit? What are the requirements?
Thanks so much in advance! If anyone else can chime in, I’d appreciate it as well!
Quote from @Cindy Cheng:
Quote from @Yon Jones:
Hey Jenelle!
I currently own a STR here in the city of Newburgh, which has been a lucrative and successful venture. We owner occupy one unit of our duplex and STR the smaller unit. We opened up our doors at the height of COVID in February 2020. Our average occupancy is 18 days per month and there is currently no limit on occupancy days. Open to answering more questions you may have specific to Newburgh.Hi Yon!
I'm a new investor in Upstate NY and from my experience in the Poconos, STR ordinances are tightening up everywhere! My question for you is if there's a similar situation in upstate NY? I know town of Lloyd just passed an ordinance to regulate STR and I was interested in Highland. Newburgh is much closer for me but I can't find anything in the town's ordinance that says STR is allowed but also nothing that says it's not allowed. What's your experience so far with the neighbors there knowing you're a STR and if you needed to register for a permit? What are the requirements?
Thanks so much in advance! If anyone else can chime in, I’d appreciate it as well!
Just go direct to the source and call town halls. But keep in mind the most important questions to ask isn't "are STR's allowed?" .. it's "is there any talk of limiting or banning STRs in the future?"
Unfortunately the way NY is carved up into “towns” .. which aren’t really what you would consider a town … more like a county within the real county. … raises the regulatory risk significantly. In many other states the counties couldn’t care less and you just have to avoid city limits. But NY state just isn’t carved up that way
Quote from @Sean Bramble:
Quote from @Cindy Cheng:
Quote from @Yon Jones:
Hey Jenelle!
I currently own a STR here in the city of Newburgh, which has been a lucrative and successful venture. We owner occupy one unit of our duplex and STR the smaller unit. We opened up our doors at the height of COVID in February 2020. Our average occupancy is 18 days per month and there is currently no limit on occupancy days. Open to answering more questions you may have specific to Newburgh.Hi Yon!
I'm a new investor in Upstate NY and from my experience in the Poconos, STR ordinances are tightening up everywhere! My question for you is if there's a similar situation in upstate NY? I know town of Lloyd just passed an ordinance to regulate STR and I was interested in Highland. Newburgh is much closer for me but I can't find anything in the town's ordinance that says STR is allowed but also nothing that says it's not allowed. What's your experience so far with the neighbors there knowing you're a STR and if you needed to register for a permit? What are the requirements?
Thanks so much in advance! If anyone else can chime in, I’d appreciate it as well!
Just go direct to the source and call town halls. But keep in mind the most important questions to ask isn't "are STR's allowed?" .. it's "is there any talk of limiting or banning STRs in the future?"
Unfortunately the way NY is carved up into “towns” .. which aren’t really what you would consider a town … more like a county within the real county. … raises the regulatory risk significantly. In many other states the counties couldn’t care less and you just have to avoid city limits. But NY state just isn’t carved up that way
Thanks for the pointers Sean!
Here's an example of the "towns" within Ulster county in NY ..If carved up like other states, there would just be Ulster County and a few incorporated cities/ real towns (here it would be Saugerties, Kingston, New Paltz, and Ellenville). The rest would just be county land, and as long as the county is STR-friendly (which many are around the US as long as there isn't a huge city within them) it would be relatively safer to invest outside of city/ real town limits (especially if the county is poor and dependent on occupancy/ "hotel" taxes). But NY State carves up its counties into larger "towns", and gives them a lot of power to regulate STRs themselves despite some of these areas being extremely rural. It seems like small difference, but in reality these larger NY "towns" are on average more likely to limit/ ban STRs than entire counties in other states. I think of them sort of like really big HOAs.
To get a sense of what regulation looks like at a local level as it's being crafted, you can watch videos of the town of Shandaken designing STR regulations online (they put them on Youtube I believe). You'll see them weigh the pros and cons of various limitations, many of which have huge impacts on the value of investments people have already made in that town (i.e., whether STR permits which they grant to existing operators who were there before regs went into affect will be transferrable to new owners of the property .... HUGE impact on your exit options as an investor).
All of this said, there are some "towns" in NY state that have historically been dependent on tourism and are very unlikely to limit/ ban STRs. Hunter, Windham, and Jewett come to mind (but home values there make getting a decent ROI on your STR investment difficult). And then there is always investing somewhere else and getting "grandfathered in" ... which could be a lucrative investment if thought through appropriately (and if the town doesn't outright ban STRs in the future, including existing operators)
Quote from @Cindy Cheng:
Quote from @Yon Jones:
Hey Jenelle!
I currently own a STR here in the city of Newburgh, which has been a lucrative and successful venture. We owner occupy one unit of our duplex and STR the smaller unit. We opened up our doors at the height of COVID in February 2020. Our average occupancy is 18 days per month and there is currently no limit on occupancy days. Open to answering more questions you may have specific to Newburgh.Hi Yon!
I'm a new investor in Upstate NY and from my experience in the Poconos, STR ordinances are tightening up everywhere! My question for you is if there's a similar situation in upstate NY? I know town of Lloyd just passed an ordinance to regulate STR and I was interested in Highland. Newburgh is much closer for me but I can't find anything in the town's ordinance that says STR is allowed but also nothing that says it's not allowed. What's your experience so far with the neighbors there knowing you're a STR and if you needed to register for a permit? What are the requirements?
Thanks so much in advance! If anyone else can chime in, I’d appreciate it as well!
Hey Cindy! Short term rentals are allowed in Newburgh NY. There is currently no regulations on STR such as permitting needed as I have seen in other states. There is an organization that is pushing for no short term rentals be allowed in Newburgh as they feel it is taking away from affordable housing. Property owners are opposing this group as the extra income STR provide help with the expenses of owning these older homes. The facts are short term rentals are bringing revenue into Newburgh. Neighbors in my experience do not mind short term rentals because owners take time to make sure the impact on residents is minimal. So for example installing noise detectors to ensure people aren't throwing parties or being disruptive. I do think a tax or some sort of permitting for short term rentals will come about in the next few years. Feel free to message me if you would like chat for more info. Hope this is helpful.
Newburgh benefits enormously from STR's with tourists spending at the local restaurants and bars. STR's also help pay for Newburgh's insane property taxes. Not to mention that there are no hotels...
Quote from @Sean Bramble:
Here's an example of the "towns" within Ulster county in NY ..If carved up like other states, there would just be Ulster County and a few incorporated cities/ real towns (here it would be Saugerties, Kingston, New Paltz, and Ellenville). The rest would just be county land, and as long as the county is STR-friendly (which many are around the US as long as there isn't a huge city within them) it would be relatively safer to invest outside of city/ real town limits (especially if the county is poor and dependent on occupancy/ "hotel" taxes). But NY State carves up its counties into larger "towns", and gives them a lot of power to regulate STRs themselves despite some of these areas being extremely rural. It seems like small difference, but in reality these larger NY "towns" are on average more likely to limit/ ban STRs than entire counties in other states. I think of them sort of like really big HOAs.
To get a sense of what regulation looks like at a local level as it's being crafted, you can watch videos of the town of Shandaken designing STR regulations online (they put them on Youtube I believe). You'll see them weigh the pros and cons of various limitations, many of which have huge impacts on the value of investments people have already made in that town (i.e., whether STR permits which they grant to existing operators who were there before regs went into affect will be transferrable to new owners of the property .... HUGE impact on your exit options as an investor).
All of this said, there are some "towns" in NY state that have historically been dependent on tourism and are very unlikely to limit/ ban STRs. Hunter, Windham, and Jewett come to mind (but home values there make getting a decent ROI on your STR investment difficult). And then there is always investing somewhere else and getting "grandfathered in" ... which could be a lucrative investment if thought through appropriately (and if the town doesn't outright ban STRs in the future, including existing operators)
Thanks Sean! Very informative! I appreciate your input in breaking down the differences.
Quote from @Yon Jones:
Quote from @Cindy Cheng:
Quote from @Yon Jones:
Hey Jenelle!
I currently own a STR here in the city of Newburgh, which has been a lucrative and successful venture. We owner occupy one unit of our duplex and STR the smaller unit. We opened up our doors at the height of COVID in February 2020. Our average occupancy is 18 days per month and there is currently no limit on occupancy days. Open to answering more questions you may have specific to Newburgh.Hi Yon!
I'm a new investor in Upstate NY and from my experience in the Poconos, STR ordinances are tightening up everywhere! My question for you is if there's a similar situation in upstate NY? I know town of Lloyd just passed an ordinance to regulate STR and I was interested in Highland. Newburgh is much closer for me but I can't find anything in the town's ordinance that says STR is allowed but also nothing that says it's not allowed. What's your experience so far with the neighbors there knowing you're a STR and if you needed to register for a permit? What are the requirements?
Thanks so much in advance! If anyone else can chime in, I’d appreciate it as well!
Hey Cindy! Short term rentals are allowed in Newburgh NY. There is currently no regulations on STR such as permitting needed as I have seen in other states. There is an organization that is pushing for no short term rentals be allowed in Newburgh as they feel it is taking away from affordable housing. Property owners are opposing this group as the extra income STR provide help with the expenses of owning these older homes. The facts are short term rentals are bringing revenue into Newburgh. Neighbors in my experience do not mind short term rentals because owners take time to make sure the impact on residents is minimal. So for example installing noise detectors to ensure people aren't throwing parties or being disruptive. I do think a tax or some sort of permitting for short term rentals will come about in the next few years. Feel free to message me if you would like chat for more info. Hope this is helpful.
Thanks so much for information Yon! All very helpful and reassuring! I think Newburgh will definitely be on the top of my list!