Avoiding Tenant Rights

[Ryan Mulder]

Hey!  We have a property we're just getting started with in Mars Hill near Asheville that we are short-term renting.  I want to increase the max amount of nights a guest can book but I'm afraid of running into the issue of tenant rights and possible evictions.  Does anyone know how long a tenant has to live in a property in North Carolina before they assume tenant rights?  Has anyone else had trouble with this issue or is it something to not really worry about?  We're brand new and learning the ropes and just trying to avoid any future issues or headaches.  Thanks!

[Luke Carl]

Most states are 28 days and you’ll need a lease. Quick google will find it! 

[Bruce Woodruff]

According to this, it is 2 weeks in your state. So just set that as your max nights on VRBO and AIR.

https://www.apartments.com/ren...

[John Underwood]

You can't or shouldn't try and avoid someone's rights.

[Mindy Jensen]

Quote from @John Underwood:

You can't or shouldn't try and avoid someone's rights.

You are 100% correct, John! You should NEVER try to avoid tenant's rights.

However, I believe he is trying to avoid legal tenancy, which (mainly) carries different removal-from-premises procedures. Short term rental occupants do not have the same legal rights to occupancy as long term rental occupants do. 

There was a rather famous case in California where an uninformed landlord rented his home to a very informed "professional tenant" for more than 30 days, establishing tenancy in that state. The tenant refused to leave, and the landlord found out the hard way that he would have to go through the formal eviction process in order to get the tenant out of the house, rather than simply have them removed for trespassing.

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Mindy Jensen:

However, I believe he is trying to avoid legal tenancy, which (mainly) carries different removal-from-premises procedures. Short term rental occupants do not have the same legal rights to occupancy as long term rental occupants do. 

That's what I got from his question too. One of the reasons I moved over to STRs...

[Mitch Davidson]

Hi @Ryan Mulder. Congrats on the new property. I've always understood tenant rights to begin at 30 days, but it would be best to consult an attorney. And it sounds like you may be more concerned about what is sometimes called "squatter's rights." I recommend a full-blown lease for anyone that will stay nearly 30 days, as well as deposits. I require both for my furnished monthly rental. Also, I think you have other things to worry about if you let guests stay in your STR for several weeks. Meaning, they start living in the place, rather than just spending evenings or rainy days in the home. For that reason many of us limit stays in our STR's to 7 or so days.

[Paul Sandhu]

Just have the electricity, water and gas disconnected. I did that to some psychotic mutt tenants of mine in December. I gave them the number of another person who had their very first STR. 2 problems solved. Got rid of the tenants. Got rid of my competition. She gave up on STRs after that.

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Paul Sandhu:

Just have the electricity, water and gas disconnected. I did that to some psychotic mutt tenants of mine in December. I gave them the number of another person who had their very first STR. 2 problems solved. Got rid of the tenants. Got rid of my competition. She gave up on STRs after that.

 Dude...you slay me!

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Mitch Davidson:

I've always understood tenant rights to begin at 30 days, 

they start living in the place, rather than just spending evenings or rainy days in the home. For that reason many of us limit stays in our STR's to 7 or so days.

The link I posted above says 14 days for NC.

I limit my guests to 14 days, even though my state says tenant rights don't kick in until 29. I don't want people getting too comfortable. And even at 14 days, those stays are the ones where I get all the minor complaints and suggestions, like 'you need a bigger closet', 'you should have darker curtains', 'I changed around all your furniture', you need new weatherstripping on your front door', 'I moved your pictures to where I thought they looked best', Etc, Etc.

Don't let guests get comfortable.

[Paul Sandhu]

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Paul Sandhu:

Just have the electricity, water and gas disconnected. I did that to some psychotic mutt tenants of mine in December. I gave them the number of another person who had their very first STR. 2 problems solved. Got rid of the tenants. Got rid of my competition. She gave up on STRs after that.

 Dude...you slay me!

The city pulled the electric meter.  The tenants bypassed the missing meter with 2 metal shears wrapped in electrical tape the next day.  The two top lugs are connected to the pole.  The two bottom lugs feed the breaker box in the house.

[Bruce Woodruff]

And we wanted to be landlords.......sigh.....takes me back..... I need a beer now.....

[Matt Bishop]

@Ryan Mulder, you may consider engaging with a great, professional property manager who represents your interest. I think you will find them to be worth every penny.

[John Bartlett]

@Paul Sandhu wow, bypassing the meter like that is a felony in most states. Did you call the power company on them?

[Adam Schneider]

@Ryan Mulder Check the NC General Statutes (GS 42).

[Paul Sandhu]

Quote from @John Bartlett:

@Paul Sandhu wow, bypassing the meter like that is a felony in most states. Did you call the power company on them?

 I called the police.  The police called the power company and they disconnected the line at the top of the pole.  Then they pulled out those 2 shears.

[Gerald Pitts]

I do a max of 14 days. There's a balance of too few nights (one), and too many (20-30). For STR. If you're doing mid term rentals out of necessity in the market, that's one thing. But in STR, I like that a guest is gone fairly soon. I got lucky in early COVID hosting a month long stay while a couple worked from home. THey were cool, but the more I thought about it, the more I realzied I could have been unlucky and gotten problem guests that aren't out in a week or two. Your mileage may vary. That's the beauty of STR. The ability to experiment.

[Robert Rohan]

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Paul Sandhu:

Just have the electricity, water and gas disconnected. I did that to some psychotic mutt tenants of mine in December. I gave them the number of another person who had their very first STR. 2 problems solved. Got rid of the tenants. Got rid of my competition. She gave up on STRs after that.

 Dude...you slay me!

Hey baby, it’s a war out there! 😇

[Josh Myrick]

Quote from @Paul Sandhu:

Just have the electricity, water and gas disconnected. I did that to some psychotic mutt tenants of mine in December. I gave them the number of another person who had their very first STR. 2 problems solved. Got rid of the tenants. Got rid of my competition. She gave up on STRs after that.

 Unfortunately this is illegal in the state on NC. Just like it is illegal for them to stop paying rent. Get a good lease, get your tenants, and evict if necessary. With good vetting and a good lease we have never had to evict though.

also read BPs managing rental properties book.

[Paul Sandhu]

Quote from @Josh Myrick:

Quote from @Paul Sandhu:

Just have the electricity, water and gas disconnected. I did that to some psychotic mutt tenants of mine in December. I gave them the number of another person who had their very first STR. 2 problems solved. Got rid of the tenants. Got rid of my competition. She gave up on STRs after that.

 Unfortunately this is illegal in the state on NC. Just like it is illegal for them to stop paying rent. Get a good lease, get your tenants, and evict if necessary. With good vetting and a good lease we have never had to evict though.

also read BPs managing rental properties book.

 It's legal in Kansas and should be legal in NC, you just are not familiar with the law.  I don't fool around with a lease because it is unenforceable.  Maybe I need to read that BP book?  Naww.

[Josh Myrick]

I wish it was legal here. It’s not a criminal charge but civil. 

[Paul Sandhu]

Quote from @Josh Myrick:

I wish it was legal here. It’s not a criminal charge but civil. 

 Utilities are in my name, not the tenants.  Since they are in my name, I can have them disconnected when I want.  Tenants have no lease, so they have no agreement to fall back on.  These are STRs.

[Josh Myrick]

Interesting idea. We have what’s called establishing residency lol. If they live there an extended period even without a lease they have to be evicted. It’s quite annoying. 

[Chris Martin]

Several posts here are inconsistent with NC General Statutes (NCGS) and some have misleading information. First of all. a vacation rental (covered under NCGS 42A) is not governed as a "regular" rental (covered under NCGS 42.) NCGS Chapter 42, Landlord and Tenant, determines the rights, obligations, and remedies under a rental agreement in NC. This Chapter (42) excludes:

- transient occupancy in a hotel, motel, or similar lodging
- vacation rentals entered into under Chapter 42A
- dwellings furnished without charge or rent

Chapter 42A, Vacation Rental Act, determines the rights, obligations, and remedies under an NC Vacation Rental. By definition, 42A-4(3) defines a Vacation Rental as "The rental of residential property for vacation, leisure, or recreation purposes for fewer than 90 days by a person who has a place of permanent residence to which he or she intends to return."

A few key differences between NCGS 42 and NCGS 42A:
 - Vacation rental agreements must be in writing, but "regular" leases do not
 - Expedited evictions follow different processes for VR (Article 4) and "regular" leases (Article 7)

The idea of a "self-help" eviction (turning off utilities, removing the front door, for example) is contrary to public policy but 42-25.6 but no longer (since 2012-2013 legislative changes) appears to trigger a criminal offense in NCGS 42. By statute a landlord, since 2012, is no longer liable under UDTP (Unfair and Deceptive Trade Practices) for violations of NCGS 42, Article 2A, which mandates "a residential tenant shall be evicted, dispossessed or otherwise constructively or actually removed from his dwelling unit only in accordance with the procedure prescribed in Article 3 or Article 7 of this  Chapter." However, a violating landlord may be liable elsewhere in NC statutes based on context. 

I'm not an attorney, but I "get" the idea of the post. The bottom line is that NCGS 42 covers leases under landlord and tenant, and NCGS 42A covers vacation rentals. A vacation rental can, if done right, be used as LTR with a lease (NCGS 42) and STR with vacation rental agreement (NCGS 42A.) Just know when to use each to make sure everyone's rights are protected.

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Paul Sandhu:

Utilities are in my name, not the tenants.  Since they are in my name, I can have them disconnected when I want.  Tenants have no lease, so they have no agreement to fall back on.  These are STRs.

 Yep^^^ We're talking STRs right.... so the utilities are in our (the hosts) names. Just turn them off.