Indoor Pools in the Smokies

[Nathan W.]

I have a nice 2 acre lot with a view in the middle of the Gatlinburg, Pigeon Forge, and Wears Valley triangle.  I'm trying to narrow down what to build on it. 
I'm considering an upscale 4 Bedroom 4 1/2 bath Pool cabin. I honestly have no desire to own an indoor pool but all the numbers say I should do it. I'm guessing it will cost me about $250k in additional square footage and construction costs to add a pool and I'm estimating an additional $50k a year in revenue. 

This may sound stupid, but is there any danger of the indoor pool in the smokies becoming the Jacuzzi tub in the bedroom of the future? So many of these things look so underwhelming. I've seen hot tubs larger than the pools going into some of these places. I just wonder if they are getting over built. On one hand I worry that I won't be able to compete soon without one but I also worry they are a bit of a fad. 

For those that have an indoor pool. How big of a pain is it to manage them and how much extra costs does it add? Are you getting them cleaned weekly or after each guest leaves?

Thanks!

[Luke Carl]

You have been paying attention on YouTube :) 

I wouldn’t want to build from scratch period and I also can’t swim. So I would be out on this idea altogether. Indoor pools are a lot of work and they are a new thing so it’s hard to find people to work on them. You’ve done your homework. Just have to decide!

[Ken Boone]

@Nathan W. I have a few pool cabins in that market, and I will tell you that I will most likely not buy another cabin that does not have a pool.  That should say enough about how I feel about it.  The pool aspect should not add more than 70-100k to the build.  I can't imagine it being anywhere near 250k, but I could be wrong.

I went through a few different pool cleaning companies and strategies taking care of the pool cleanings in the beginning. Weekly was one of the strategies in the beginning and it doesn't work.  It needs to be cleaned after every guest.  The pool cleaning fee is passed off to the guest just like the cabin cleaning fee.  

A pool does add more issues and cost, but the additional revenue more than offsets those items.  

Also what I have learned is that a lot of people will tell you stuff about pool cabins, but the fact is unless you have one, you are just speculating on what it takes to operate etc.  My first pool cabin is about 15 years old, so they have been around for awhile, just didn't gain in popularity until the last few years.  It was a hidden secret. ;)

[Nathan W.]

Quote from @Luke Carl:

You have been paying attention on YouTube :) 

I wouldn’t want to build from scratch period and I also can’t swim. So I would be out on this idea altogether. You’ve done your homework. Just have to decide! 

@Luke Carl  Yes, enjoying the new Podcast! The bug guy was really interesting. 

I have a construction background and I work with a good builder in the area. I have one cabin done and two under construction as we speak. They are all being done for less than $300/sqft all in with the lot and furniture. My appraisal came back at $500/sqft. I think that's high but either way building is the only way I can make the numbers work in the smokies. This pool cabin would cost me about $330/sqft to build all in. The down side is it takes me 18 months from start to finish but I end up with so much equity day one it's worth it. I know construction isn't for everyone but I love it. 

That being said I'm just not a fan of pools. I'm trying to talk myself into it but looking to hear from all sides. 

[Nathan W.]

Quote from @Ken Boone:

@Nathan W. .  The pool aspect should not add more than 70-100k to the build.  I can't imagine it being anywhere near 250k, but I could be wrong.

 I really appreciate the feedback @Ken Boone 
On the construction costs, that includes adding about 350 - 400 sqft in additional square footage to the house for the pool and pool equipment. That eats up about $100k of that $250k cost. I realize that $150k is on the high end for a pool but since I haven't built one before I'm just trying to be conservative. I also want to go all out if I do it. 

Again, really appreciate the input. 

[Brooklyn McCarty]

It will definitely be more work! That’s for sure. Most likely a headache until you get a good system in place, however the return is there. 

That being said, a well done 4/4 will also do very well in The Smokies. 

[Kyle Smith]

All in on my 2600 sqft pool cabin with a big view, and me doing most of the construction management, was around $365/sqft.  It was built on a critical slope and the foundation was around $150k.  I’m with Luke. I wouldn’t build again…not in the smokies. Too many bad builders, contract labor is out of hand and the material costs haven’t came down like they should.  Also, better dang sure know who your contractor is and have many references and call those references.  If his estimates are too low, stay away.  Also note, if he can start this month then he has no business building in the mountains.  As far as I know, all the good builders are backed up for 6 months to 2 years to start. 

[Brian Barch]

I have no doubts there are people with pool cabins that are killing it. 

For me personally, I try to stay away from anything that feels like it could even remotely be considered a fad that’s tacky at a future point in time.

It’s also important to me to own properties that aren’t simply built to be a rental, they could also double as a permanent place to stay (ie I wouldn’t personally build a dome/yurt/cliff dwelling/etc. 

even now, when I see the Orlando places with extreme themed rooms….on one hand I get it…I’m personally turned off. Trendy, tacky, I would never want to live there.

I think you have to stick to your niche and what you are comfortable with

[Ryan Moyer]

Quote from @Brian Barch:

I have no doubts there are people with pool cabins that are killing it. 

For me personally, I try to stay away from anything that feels like it could even remotely be considered a fad that’s tacky at a future point in time.

It’s also important to me to own properties that aren’t simply built to be a rental, they could also double as a permanent place to stay (ie I wouldn’t personally build a dome/yurt/cliff dwelling/etc. 

even now, when I see the Orlando places with extreme themed rooms….on one hand I get it…I’m personally turned off. Trendy, tacky, I would never want to live there.

I think you have to stick to your niche and what you are comfortable with

 Those neighborhoods in Orlando barely even allow full time residents.  They're all vacation rentals.  They don't even have a mailbox.

To each their own, of course, but the notion that a place needs to double as a primary residence or LTR is out dated, and just gets you into poor STR places (metro markets, etc) that won't have longevity.

Without the vacation rental aspect ANY cabin in the Smokies is only going to be worth like 30% of what it currently costs.  It's not a realistic fallback plan.  No one is buying a 4br cabin in the Smokies to live in themselves and no one is paying $8000/mo to LTR it.

[Nathan W.]

Quote from @Kyle Smith:

All in on my 2600 sqft pool cabin with a big view, and me doing most of the construction management, was around $365/sqft.  It was built on a critical slope and the foundation was around $150k.  I’m with Luke. I wouldn’t build again…not in the smokies. Too many bad builders, contract labor is out of hand and the material costs haven’t came down like they should.  Also, better dang sure know who your contractor is and have many references and call those references.  If his estimates are too low, stay away.  Also note, if he can start this month then he has no business building in the mountains.  As far as I know, all the good builders are backed up for 6 months to 2 years to start. 

@Kyle Smith I hear you. A lot of people have really bad experiences building. I love it though and this will be my fourth build with this builder. Other than it taking longer than I would like (about 18 months) I have nothing but good things to say and can't wait to do it again. 
Pool or not pool, I'll definitely be building something on this lot. 

Kyle and @Ken Boone, how large are the pools in your cabins? 

[Ken Boone]

Quote from @Nathan W.:

Kyle and @Ken Boone, how large are the pools in your cabins? 

 They are small heated pools.  
 8x17x5ft deep

6x13x4ft deep

8x16x4ft deep

All of mine are fiberglass pools.  2 of them are the curvy shaped typed pools and one is a rectangle.  If I was doing a new build I would do rectangular.  You can easily put a solar cover on that guests can easily roll up. This helps a lot with the humidity factor and heat loss from the pool.  

[Leslie Anne Morris]

My VRBO account manager said pools are in. More guests are booking them for the novelty. If you can swing it I would go that route. Will it be the future indoor jacuzzi crap that we’re ripping out? Who knows! LOL 

[Matt Mertz]

Quote from @Nathan W.:

@Kyle Smith I hear you. A lot of people have really bad experiences building. I love it though and this will be my fourth build with this builder. Other than it taking longer than I would like (about 18 months) I have nothing but good things to say and can't wait to do it again. 
Pool or not pool, I'll definitely be building something on this lot. 

Kyle and @Ken Boone, how large are the pools in your cabins? 

Our first cabin in the Smokies was a new construction.  That allowed us to purposely build an STR that stands out from the competition.  We're currently building another cabin with the intention of doing the same thing again.  We got a great builder so no issue there.  I'd rather custom build than buy an existing cabin.

[Brian Barch]

Quote from @Ryan Moyer:

Quote from @Brian Barch:

I have no doubts there are people with pool cabins that are killing it. 

For me personally, I try to stay away from anything that feels like it could even remotely be considered a fad that’s tacky at a future point in time.

It’s also important to me to own properties that aren’t simply built to be a rental, they could also double as a permanent place to stay (ie I wouldn’t personally build a dome/yurt/cliff dwelling/etc. 

even now, when I see the Orlando places with extreme themed rooms….on one hand I get it…I’m personally turned off. Trendy, tacky, I would never want to live there.

I think you have to stick to your niche and what you are comfortable with

 Those neighborhoods in Orlando barely even allow full time residents.  They're all vacation rentals.  They don't even have a mailbox.

To each their own, of course, but the notion that a place needs to double as a primary residence or LTR is out dated, and just gets you into poor STR places (metro markets, etc) that won't have longevity.

Without the vacation rental aspect ANY cabin in the Smokies is only going to be worth like 30% of what it currently costs.  It's not a realistic fallback plan.  No one is buying a 4br cabin in the Smokies to live in themselves and no one is paying $8000/mo to LTR it.

I think you misunderstood my point. I’m not speaking of the strategy that an STR must also work as an LTR to be viable, I’m simply highlighting that I also like to use my own STRs as my vacation rental, and so to me, I don’t like them to be tacky or overly trendy.

[Ken Boone]

Quote from @Matt Mertz:

Quote from @Nathan W.:

@Kyle Smith I hear you. A lot of people have really bad experiences building. I love it though and this will be my fourth build with this builder. Other than it taking longer than I would like (about 18 months) I have nothing but good things to say and can't wait to do it again. 
Pool or not pool, I'll definitely be building something on this lot. 

Kyle and @Ken Boone, how large are the pools in your cabins? 

Our first cabin in the Smokies was a new construction.  That allowed us to purposely build an STR that stands out from the competition.  We're currently building another cabin with the intention of doing the same thing again.  We got a great builder so no issue there.  I'd rather custom build than buy an existing cabin.

So you said something that is key in this market, especially with a cooling off.  And that is build something that stands out from the competition.  That is exactly what having the pool does.  It is the #1 amenity in that market.  It trumps the view, dollar for dollar all day long.  However you still have to buy right and that is tough right now, especially without doing new construction.

However, not sure when your last build was @Matt Mertz but I am in the camp with those guys that I will never build there again.  It has to be one of the worst places to build in at this current time.  However, it sounds like @Nathan W. might have a history with this builder and if that is the case that might change the story.  I have had 2 cabins built there.  The first one was a nightmare dealing with the builder and all the cheap shoddy work that was done because they used the bottom of the barrel for labor, and they left problems they knew about and waited to do something about them until I found them.  The second build which was completed June 2022, only because I pretty much had to spend the first 6 months of last year in TN 90% of that time, managing, doing, fixing, due to unscrupulous builders (plural) (who were vetted), made the first build look like a walk in the park.  In fact, in my circle I know of 8 people in the middle of builds there right now, and they are all upside down, nothing is being done, lawsuits, etc.. And this spans 3 different builders.  And oh, most of these builds having been going on for like 2 years.

[Erik Stenbakken]

We have a pool cabin in the Smokeys and several without. I think the SECONDARY question is whether we owners want a pool cabin or not. The PRIMARY question is "does the MARKET want that?" 

Could it be a fad? Might be. Could it be a hassle? Yes. And will cost more than without too. But it is worth it is the question. 

Will it be the future of flying cars as seen in the 50's? Or that silly thing called the Internet from the 90's? 

For us? It's pool cabins (10x 20' pools). Our next two to come on line will have legit pools. And though they cost more to build and maintain, I think it's here to stay as a trend. Not a fad. I'm puttying my money where that belief is too. I could be wrong in 15 years, but willing to bet on it today. 

[Collin H.]

We have had two clients with pools.  Both hated it.  That's not statistically valid feedback, but my $.02.

[Ken Boone]

Quote from @Collin H.:

We have had two clients with pools.  Both hated it.  That's not statistically valid feedback, but my $.02.

 Wow that is surprising to hear.  I know several people that have pool cabins and everyone one of them thinks the same as I do.  

[Collin H.]

Quote from @Ken Boone:

Quote from @Collin H.:

We have had two clients with pools.  Both hated it.  That's not statistically valid feedback, but my $.02.

 Wow that is surprising to hear.  I know several people that have pool cabins and everyone one of them thinks the same as I do.  

 Variety is the spice of life!  

[Matt Mertz]

Quote from @Ken Boone:

Quote from @Matt Mertz:

Quote from @Nathan W.:

@Kyle Smith I hear you. A lot of people have really bad experiences building. I love it though and this will be my fourth build with this builder. Other than it taking longer than I would like (about 18 months) I have nothing but good things to say and can't wait to do it again. 
Pool or not pool, I'll definitely be building something on this lot. 

Kyle and @Ken Boone, how large are the pools in your cabins? 

Our first cabin in the Smokies was a new construction.  That allowed us to purposely build an STR that stands out from the competition.  We're currently building another cabin with the intention of doing the same thing again.  We got a great builder so no issue there.  I'd rather custom build than buy an existing cabin.

So you said something that is key in this market, especially with a cooling off.  And that is build something that stands out from the competition.  That is exactly what having the pool does.  It is the #1 amenity in that market.  It trumps the view, dollar for dollar all day long.  However you still have to buy right and that is tough right now, especially without doing new construction.

However, not sure when your last build was @Matt Mertz but I am in the camp with those guys that I will never build there again.  It has to be one of the worst places to build in at this current time.  However, it sounds like @Nathan W. might have a history with this builder and if that is the case that might change the story.  I have had 2 cabins built there.  The first one was a nightmare dealing with the builder and all the cheap shoddy work that was done because they used the bottom of the barrel for labor, and they left problems they knew about and waited to do something about them until I found them.  The second build which was completed June 2022, only because I pretty much had to spend the first 6 months of last year in TN 90% of that time, managing, doing, fixing, due to unscrupulous builders (plural) (who were vetted), made the first build look like a walk in the park.  In fact, in my circle I know of 8 people in the middle of builds there right now, and they are all upside down, nothing is being done, lawsuits, etc.. And this spans 3 different builders.  And oh, most of these builds having been going on for like 2 years.

I've heard this repeatedly about building in the Smokies enough to believe it.  All I can tell you is that we found a builder who built our 4 bed /5.5 bath 3500 sqft home with a fire suppression system in 10 months in 2021.  We visited during construction and walked in on the subs actually sweeping up and cleaning their mess and not knowing we were there.  Somehow, our builder instilled this work ethic in them.

That man is David Carr of C&C Construction of East TN.  This man has subs that are loyal to him with an incredible work ethic.  

After our first build we assumed we couldn't build with him since he was so busy.  Luckily, we found a small lot in Gatlinburg in 2022 (his town HQ) and was able to work with us due to the small size of our next cabin (1 bed).

Anyhow, this probably isn't helpful to the forum readers but I just wanted to counter the narrative that all Smokies builders are bad.  I personally know they are not from experience.

[Ken Boone]

Quote from @Matt Mertz:

I've heard this repeatedly about building in the Smokies enough to believe it.  All I can tell you is that we found a builder who built our 4 bed /5.5 bath 3500 sqft home with a fire suppression system in 10 months in 2021.  We visited during construction and walked in on the subs actually sweeping up and cleaning their mess and not knowing we were there.  Somehow, our builder instilled this work ethic in them.

That man is David Carr of C&C Construction of East TN.  This man has subs that are loyal to him with an incredible work ethic.  

After our first build we assumed we couldn't build with him since he was so busy.  Luckily, we found a small lot in Gatlinburg in 2022 (his town HQ) and was able to work with us due to the small size of our next cabin (1 bed).

Anyhow, this probably isn't helpful to the forum readers but I just wanted to counter the narrative that all Smokies builders are bad.  I personally know they are not from experience.

@Matt Mertz Well dude that is freaking awesome.  I don't know a single build during 2021 that was finished in less than a year.  That is fantastic though man.  I'm sure there are some good ones.  I do know of one, but he is 2 years waitlisted.  The problem is that for every good one, there are 5 more that are bad, very bad.  ;)  No scientific study there, just me and my circle's anecdotal evidence.

[Jay Fradd]

Quote from @Luke Carl:

You have been paying attention on YouTube :) 

I wouldn’t want to build from scratch period and I also can’t swim. So I would be out on this idea altogether. Indoor pools are a lot of work and they are a new thing so it’s hard to find people to work on them. You’ve done your homework. Just have to decide!

 SMH. Indoor pool cabins a new thing? They were prominently built in 2005 to 2008 in places like Black Bear Ridge Resort, Kerr Road, and various other subdivisions in our area. Primarily by Jorge Amet and others such as Jeff Whaley. They certainly aren't a new thing in our market.

[John Carbone]

Quote from @Matt Mertz:

Quote from @Ken Boone:

Quote from @Matt Mertz:

Quote from @Nathan W.:

@Kyle Smith I hear you. A lot of people have really bad experiences building. I love it though and this will be my fourth build with this builder. Other than it taking longer than I would like (about 18 months) I have nothing but good things to say and can't wait to do it again. 
Pool or not pool, I'll definitely be building something on this lot. 

Kyle and @Ken Boone, how large are the pools in your cabins? 

Our first cabin in the Smokies was a new construction.  That allowed us to purposely build an STR that stands out from the competition.  We're currently building another cabin with the intention of doing the same thing again.  We got a great builder so no issue there.  I'd rather custom build than buy an existing cabin.

So you said something that is key in this market, especially with a cooling off.  And that is build something that stands out from the competition.  That is exactly what having the pool does.  It is the #1 amenity in that market.  It trumps the view, dollar for dollar all day long.  However you still have to buy right and that is tough right now, especially without doing new construction.

However, not sure when your last build was @Matt Mertz but I am in the camp with those guys that I will never build there again.  It has to be one of the worst places to build in at this current time.  However, it sounds like @Nathan W. might have a history with this builder and if that is the case that might change the story.  I have had 2 cabins built there.  The first one was a nightmare dealing with the builder and all the cheap shoddy work that was done because they used the bottom of the barrel for labor, and they left problems they knew about and waited to do something about them until I found them.  The second build which was completed June 2022, only because I pretty much had to spend the first 6 months of last year in TN 90% of that time, managing, doing, fixing, due to unscrupulous builders (plural) (who were vetted), made the first build look like a walk in the park.  In fact, in my circle I know of 8 people in the middle of builds there right now, and they are all upside down, nothing is being done, lawsuits, etc.. And this spans 3 different builders.  And oh, most of these builds having been going on for like 2 years.

I've heard this repeatedly about building in the Smokies enough to believe it.  All I can tell you is that we found a builder who built our 4 bed /5.5 bath 3500 sqft home with a fire suppression system in 10 months in 2021.  We visited during construction and walked in on the subs actually sweeping up and cleaning their mess and not knowing we were there.  Somehow, our builder instilled this work ethic in them.

That man is David Carr of C&C Construction of East TN.  This man has subs that are loyal to him with an incredible work ethic.  

After our first build we assumed we couldn't build with him since he was so busy.  Luckily, we found a small lot in Gatlinburg in 2022 (his town HQ) and was able to work with us due to the small size of our next cabin (1 bed).

Anyhow, this probably isn't helpful to the forum readers but I just wanted to counter the narrative that all Smokies builders are bad.  I personally know they are not from experience.

What was your price per square foot on the 1 bed excluding lot turn key?

[Matt Mertz]

Quote from @John Carbone:

Quote from @Matt Mertz:

Quote from @Ken Boone:

Quote from @Matt Mertz:

Quote from @Nathan W.:

@Kyle Smith I hear you. A lot of people have really bad experiences building. I love it though and this will be my fourth build with this builder. Other than it taking longer than I would like (about 18 months) I have nothing but good things to say and can't wait to do it again. 
Pool or not pool, I'll definitely be building something on this lot. 

Kyle and @Ken Boone, how large are the pools in your cabins? 

Our first cabin in the Smokies was a new construction.  That allowed us to purposely build an STR that stands out from the competition.  We're currently building another cabin with the intention of doing the same thing again.  We got a great builder so no issue there.  I'd rather custom build than buy an existing cabin.

So you said something that is key in this market, especially with a cooling off.  And that is build something that stands out from the competition.  That is exactly what having the pool does.  It is the #1 amenity in that market.  It trumps the view, dollar for dollar all day long.  However you still have to buy right and that is tough right now, especially without doing new construction.

However, not sure when your last build was @Matt Mertz but I am in the camp with those guys that I will never build there again.  It has to be one of the worst places to build in at this current time.  However, it sounds like @Nathan W. might have a history with this builder and if that is the case that might change the story.  I have had 2 cabins built there.  The first one was a nightmare dealing with the builder and all the cheap shoddy work that was done because they used the bottom of the barrel for labor, and they left problems they knew about and waited to do something about them until I found them.  The second build which was completed June 2022, only because I pretty much had to spend the first 6 months of last year in TN 90% of that time, managing, doing, fixing, due to unscrupulous builders (plural) (who were vetted), made the first build look like a walk in the park.  In fact, in my circle I know of 8 people in the middle of builds there right now, and they are all upside down, nothing is being done, lawsuits, etc.. And this spans 3 different builders.  And oh, most of these builds having been going on for like 2 years.

I've heard this repeatedly about building in the Smokies enough to believe it.  All I can tell you is that we found a builder who built our 4 bed /5.5 bath 3500 sqft home with a fire suppression system in 10 months in 2021.  We visited during construction and walked in on the subs actually sweeping up and cleaning their mess and not knowing we were there.  Somehow, our builder instilled this work ethic in them.

That man is David Carr of C&C Construction of East TN.  This man has subs that are loyal to him with an incredible work ethic.  

After our first build we assumed we couldn't build with him since he was so busy.  Luckily, we found a small lot in Gatlinburg in 2022 (his town HQ) and was able to work with us due to the small size of our next cabin (1 bed).

Anyhow, this probably isn't helpful to the forum readers but I just wanted to counter the narrative that all Smokies builders are bad.  I personally know they are not from experience.

What was your price per square foot on the 1 bed excluding lot turn key?

 Don't know yet... we're still in design phase with the architect.  The lot was 100k and our builder was quoting 250-300 sq ft for the build.  But we intend to go high end on this one since it's a 1 bedroom.

[John Carbone]

Quote from @Matt Mertz:

Quote from @John Carbone:

Quote from @Matt Mertz:

Quote from @Ken Boone:

Quote from @Matt Mertz:

Quote from @Nathan W.:

@Kyle Smith I hear you. A lot of people have really bad experiences building. I love it though and this will be my fourth build with this builder. Other than it taking longer than I would like (about 18 months) I have nothing but good things to say and can't wait to do it again. 
Pool or not pool, I'll definitely be building something on this lot. 

Kyle and @Ken Boone, how large are the pools in your cabins? 

Our first cabin in the Smokies was a new construction.  That allowed us to purposely build an STR that stands out from the competition.  We're currently building another cabin with the intention of doing the same thing again.  We got a great builder so no issue there.  I'd rather custom build than buy an existing cabin.

So you said something that is key in this market, especially with a cooling off.  And that is build something that stands out from the competition.  That is exactly what having the pool does.  It is the #1 amenity in that market.  It trumps the view, dollar for dollar all day long.  However you still have to buy right and that is tough right now, especially without doing new construction.

However, not sure when your last build was @Matt Mertz but I am in the camp with those guys that I will never build there again.  It has to be one of the worst places to build in at this current time.  However, it sounds like @Nathan W. might have a history with this builder and if that is the case that might change the story.  I have had 2 cabins built there.  The first one was a nightmare dealing with the builder and all the cheap shoddy work that was done because they used the bottom of the barrel for labor, and they left problems they knew about and waited to do something about them until I found them.  The second build which was completed June 2022, only because I pretty much had to spend the first 6 months of last year in TN 90% of that time, managing, doing, fixing, due to unscrupulous builders (plural) (who were vetted), made the first build look like a walk in the park.  In fact, in my circle I know of 8 people in the middle of builds there right now, and they are all upside down, nothing is being done, lawsuits, etc.. And this spans 3 different builders.  And oh, most of these builds having been going on for like 2 years.

I've heard this repeatedly about building in the Smokies enough to believe it.  All I can tell you is that we found a builder who built our 4 bed /5.5 bath 3500 sqft home with a fire suppression system in 10 months in 2021.  We visited during construction and walked in on the subs actually sweeping up and cleaning their mess and not knowing we were there.  Somehow, our builder instilled this work ethic in them.

That man is David Carr of C&C Construction of East TN.  This man has subs that are loyal to him with an incredible work ethic.  

After our first build we assumed we couldn't build with him since he was so busy.  Luckily, we found a small lot in Gatlinburg in 2022 (his town HQ) and was able to work with us due to the small size of our next cabin (1 bed).

Anyhow, this probably isn't helpful to the forum readers but I just wanted to counter the narrative that all Smokies builders are bad.  I personally know they are not from experience.

What was your price per square foot on the 1 bed excluding lot turn key?

 Don't know yet... we're still in design phase with the architect.  The lot was 100k and our builder was quoting 250-300 sq ft for the build.  But we intend to go high end on this one since it's a 1 bedroom.

That’s pretty good, What was the price per square foot on the 3500 square foot one?

[Matt Mertz]

That’s pretty good, What was the price per square foot on the 3500 square foot one?

All in: lot, build and furnishing it was about $285 sqft.