Renting a guest house/adu in Phoenix long term
I've been researching the rules on guest houses, in-laws etc when it comes to building these. Looking at the ordinance for guest houses from the City if Phoenix, (below) #2 seems to say you can't advertise them for rent? Obviously there are a ton of sites that do just that.
Anyone have any experience in Phoenix renting an ADU for more than a few days with a lease? Is this allowed?
A guesthouse shall not: +5
(1) Provide more parking than the one required space; +5
(2) Be advertised for occupancy through any print or electronic media or through placement of signs on the property; +5
(3) Provide separate mail service or have a separate address from the primary dwelling unit; or +5
(4) Be separately metered for utilities. +5
Following!
This is under the regulations for single family residences. The reason you cannot advertise a guesthouse for rent in areas zoned for SF is that you can't have a second residential structure. Technically, these have to be a gym or studio or something that's not officially occupied. (That's also why they can't be metered or receive separate mail - to keep them unoccupied.)
So how does everyone advertise them on AirBnB, VRBO, etc? The city hasn't shut them down yet. Technically it's a zoning violation in SF neighborhoods. Yes, we all know that everyone is doing it. That's probably why the City hasn't made a move yet. They need to have a real plan in place before they shut everyone down.
Thanks Pamela, that's good info. Hard to believe cities aren't dealing with this amidst affordable housing debates. Its hard to imagine how many people are technically in violation then
There are SO many people in violation! I think it will likely continue until there is one sweeping law or city ordinance, or the housing dept. finally decides to do one big raid. But in the meantime, we should all work together to find workable solutions. Homeowners have casitas ... tenants need affordable housing ... the city needs to enforce its zoning laws ... there has to be a happy medium somewhere.
Not sure what your particular property situation is, but I'm happy to troubleshoot if you're having zoning issues!
No issue, but I don't like to operate in the grey. For our next home we were looking at renting an ADU like a Casita long term to offset costs and cash flow i.e. house hack. It's a bummer to learn that everyone who does so in our area is in violation of zoning. I agree there needs to be a middle ground.
@Jay Norlund, maybe you have some more knowledge on this, but I am also looking into ADUs in Phoenix for the purpose of using it as a rental. I am not too familiar with the area, but was wondering if you could share your source for regulations on these type of properties. I was looking at the Maricopa County website and found that and ADU/guesthouse "may not be rented or leased separate from the primary structure." Forgive my ignorance, but does that mean ADUs cannot be rented in Maricopa County?
This is the issue we were discussing above - properties that are zoned for SINGLE family cannot rent out ADUs separately, but properties that are zoned for MULTI can. But a lot of SF owners are renting out their ADUs and just hoping they don't get shut down for a zoning violation.
This is a lot like the limitation on the number of unrelated residents living in the same property. Most cities like Phoenix have a limit for this, but that doesn't stop investors from buying single family homes in college towns and far exceeding that number by renting rooms to students.
*cough cough here's looking at you Tempe cough cough*
So basically it's buyer beware. Don't bet your retirement on purchasing this property and renting out the ADU, as things could certainly change with new laws or heavier enforcement of existing laws.
But in all likelihood the city will probably become more lenient on these laws over time as the population grows simply to accommodate the retiring boomer population and ever-growing demand for affordable housing.
Thank you, @Wes Blackwell and @Pam@Pamela Sandberg!
@Jay Norlund Lots of other great info here that I don't need to rehash. But I'll add that the best casitas are the ones with a separate address and separate metering. I've actually seen quite a few scattered throughout the historic districts of Phoenix that otherwise have SFH residential zoning....the separate metering/address could be very old and grandfathered in at this point. If you can snag a property with separate metering, then you're essentially buying a duplex with free standing units (with residential low down financing), and that's worth its weight in gold.
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The laws on ADUs in California have now been adjusted to allow them to operate legally (apparently their housing issue has forced them to address the ADUs), has anyone heard if Maricopa County is leaning towards a similar move?
Originally posted by @Sharee Hurts:The laws on ADUs in California have now been adjusted to allow them to operate legally (apparently their housing issue has forced them to address the ADUs), has anyone heard if Maricopa County is leaning towards a similar move?
I would like to know the answer of any updates on this as well. Also, what if the property owner lived in the ADU and rented out the House instead?
Curious about this as my plan was to add an ADU onto my recently purchased single family rental house, rent it out to increase cash flow and then BRRR to move my cash to my next investment. Dont want to operate illegally but also wanting to get my cash out of this investment and maintain cash flow.
@Austin G. from the people I have spoken with that isn't an option either.. but let me know if you have heard differently.
@Austin G. I agree with that assessment as well. The way I've read the zoning laws, you can certainly rent out a SF in print and electronic media, so perhaps that the legal way at this point. There are countless advertisings for ADUs throughout the Valley, it would be ideal for there to be some clarification provided. It seems unrealistic that enforcement would be an option as that would be quite a heavy lift and leave many with out other affordable housing options.
@Jay Norlund @here, It's been a few years since your original post, but I'm wondering if you or anyone concluded with ADU success in Pheonix and if you could impart any knowledge on your findings. Is Phoenix following CA trend to allow ADUs to lighten the load of affordable housing? Did you avoid working in the "greyzone" or are you taking the risk?
Will keep researching but my first few googles led me to BiggerPockets and I remembered I was a member 😅. I'm new and personally looking to start my journey. Thanks to any reply!
The City of Phoenix is considering adding language to their zoning code that will allow ADUs in at least parts of Phoenix. The language for approval is working it's way through the local Village planning committees, then to Planning Commission then to Council and the Mayor for approvals. If it passes, we will need also to add language to the general plan, so this is still maybe next year at the earliest to come to fruition (2024). Currently most ADUs are either very old and grandfathered in, or operating illegally. There are only a few areas with zoning that currently legally allows ADUs (right in downtown or far at the outskirts), HOWEVER, enforcement is totally on a complaints basis. So if you keep your neighbors happy, you shouldn't see code enforcement at your door. I am working on plans to add ADUs to our 3 Phoenix properties in anticipation of this approval happening.
If, for some reason our local leaders don't get it passed, there is SB1117 at the State Senate that would force local municipalities to allow ADUs across the state (as well as allowing easier approvals for multifamily housing) and take a lot of control out of local hands. This is not the first time legislation like this has come before the senate, but it is the first time homelessness has been at 'crisis' levels here and cost of housing is so out of sync with incomes. The 'threat' of state interference is lighting a fire under some cities to take proactive action.
I guess enforcement isn't good in general. The homeless are taking over BLM land in Pinal county and BLM Is not enforcing their rules. They call them " overstay" campers and there is alot of trash and the camps are a fire hazard. I don't think ADUs will fix homelessness for alot of people, but some.
I am familiar with those unrelated persons ordinances.
Is that why I cannot find any listings for rent for guesthouses or casitas? I would love to rent something like that since it is just me and my dogs!!
For anyone reading this now….new legislation has specifically outlawed the use of ADUs as AirBNB candidates.