Have you ever read a post on one of these forums saying something like, “I would never invest in California/Detroit because it is a horrible place to invest.” Or “C-class neighborhoods only look good on paper but you can’t make money with them.” Or “Real estate syndication is the only true, pure way of investing passively in real estate.”

Without naming names, what is the most absurd, self-righteous real estate advice that you have ever heard on BiggerPockets or otherwise? For those slightly more introspective, what is the most self-righteous real estate advice that you have ever given?

Don't care.  If they're legit and want to buy/sell, I'll work with them.

Self-righteous is me framing them, I'm sure to themselves they can justify being the smartest guy in the room, but I don't care.  

Real estate (and capitalism) is like that, put your money in the right place/way and you get rich without too much back-breaking work.  Works better if you have rich parents also.

There used to be a member on bigger pockets that wrote blogs with controversial subjects, constantly claiming you can't make money with a D-class rentals. Of course, that's not true. He's a very smart person but I found it intellectually dishonest to ignore all the landlords that have become millionaires through D-Class properties. why not explain the positives in negatives and let individuals make up their own minds or learn through their own experience?

@Nathan G. Thanks Nathan. It bothers me when people share on this forum where new investors are trying to learn that the only correct way of doing real estate is the way they do it.

@Shiloh Lundahl

Whenever I read a post whether I agree or disagree or whether it is spot on according to me or hot air, I remember that this is an open public forum.  

Anyone can sign up for an account and say whatever they want about who they are and the success that they have.

I believe it is my job as an investor to do my own homework and navigate my own path because in the end it is my money that is being risked when I invest.

I guess I don't get offended at some peoples outrages claims because I have enough life experience to know when something isn't right.

Just my thoughts.

I think given that this is a public forum, people are allowed to share their opinions and beliefs. It is up to the reader to make conclusive decisions on what makes the most sense for them. Admittedly it is very crass to say completely blanketed statements like the ones you referred to but hopefully our audience will learn to make informed opinions of their own and plug into the local market to satisfy their needs. 

"self-righteous" makes it sound like its a moral argument. There are a lot of really opinionated investors, but  they probably got that way finding success by applying whatever rule they feel strongly about.

For example I have done really well by being local in a B-/C+ area, chasing distressed deals in that area and functioning as my own GC (and handyman) and property manager.  I run a very lean nonfat operation and handle all my tenants carefully, keeping them happy but also paying on time.

Thus I genuinely feel its crazy to try BRRRR remotely in a new city, and think people buying turnkey are just asking to get screwed over. I would never have been able to get where I am now if I was doing either of those two things, so I tend to be pretty opinionated about that.

Most people always speak from personal experience instead of an impartial one. Always important to keep in mind that what works or didn't work for someone, is where they are going to be giving their advice from. Or sometimes they're just trying to promote themselves

Hahah Well, this is cute. More so since when we finally get around to naming names, I am sure mine will come up more than once. Looking forward to how this unfolds, if for no other reason than the entertainment value.

@Shiloh Lundahl Everyone is different with particular circumstances. Maybe that advice about not investing "here or there" because it's in California and expensive or it's in Detroit and rundown. Maybe that advice would normally be a good rule-of-thumb for most people in most situations, but what if someone finds a good deal in an area deemed "undesirable"? Maybe their are those individuals who are in a situation where those rules don't apply.   

It would be a disingenuous to post on a public forum, de facto asking for opinions and then complain that opinions are given.   Anything I post I assume is free game to be agreed with, disagreed with, or cause a tangent that shoots off into space.   That is just the internet.  

As for myself, I think the most controversial opinion I have expressed is my distaste for "subject-to" investment.   I don't believe that stripping the asset from an individual while having them retain the debt can ever be a "win" for the subject person.   Simple math shows that your net worth would plummet.   Additionally, without any legal assurances the process does not ensure that the debt will not come back to harm that person.   I am not alone in this opinion, but I know that many people believe it to be a "problem solver" for people with no equity.   I just see it as stripping the last bit of value from desperate people.

Regardless, I much prefer the debate.   While it is repetitive, you should always understand the "cons" of any strategy in addition to the "pros"   So considering the drawbacks of "C" class neighborhoods is important to understand before you choose to invest regardless.   And learning from other peoples experiences is informative.

@Shiloh Lundahl

For me, the worst is my own refusal to read a book about real estate investing.

Second is the opening sentence to this reply.

Third is a tie between syndication investors describing their experience in number of doors and gurus selling tickets to seminars to talk about not working for money and make money work for you.

Originally posted by @Nicky Reader :

"self-righteous" makes it sound like its a moral argument. There are a lot of really opinionated investors, but  they probably got that way finding success by applying whatever rule they feel strongly about.

For example I have done really well by being local in a B-/C+ area, chasing distressed deals in that area and functioning as my own GC (and handyman) and property manager.  I run a very lean nonfat operation and handle all my tenants carefully, keeping them happy but also paying on time.

Thus I genuinely feel its crazy to try BRRRR remotely in a new city, and think people buying turnkey are just asking to get screwed over. I would never have been able to get where I am now if I was doing either of those two things, so I tend to be pretty opinionated about that.

I think this is the first post of yours that I don't wholly agree with. And even then, I agree with most of it. Just funny to be on the opposite side of the table as we are getting out of our underperforming and only C class property but are finding our success in Long Distance BRRRR.

I've been on BP for the better part of 12 years now and I have been at the point for a long time where I ignore a fair share of the replies on here.  I don't know if I would call them self-righteous, but then again it is hard to come up with another word for someone who does't care about your story, your goals, or the path you've chosen when they choose to tell you that you're wrong, you've chosen an investment that is going to fail and you will definitely lose money.  And, they choose to make that post on your thread sharing your success as an investor and how excited you are.  smh

Why does it matter? Why would you want to highlight something you think brings nothing to the community and in fact detracts from it if you can't do anything to prevent it from happening again? 

It isn't like these are case studies of failure where we as a community can learn to avoid the mistakes of others. 

All this post will do is revel in the fact that the vast majority of humans prefer to be right instead of having their thoughts move closer to reality. Do we really need to list more examples of this simple fact? More importantly do we need more questions like this that are rife with dichotomous thinking, overgeneralization, and negative filtering? 

My answer for the most self righteous post: the one at the top of this page. At best OP wants us all to engage in some odd form of tribal schadenfreude that separates the community into  "rightThink" and "wrongThink" tribes. 

 

Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich :

Hahah Well, this is cute. More so since when we finally get around to naming names, I am sure mine will come up more than once. Looking forward to how this unfolds, if for no other reason than the entertainment value.

 This is an odd response. Seems as if to rejoice at being pointed to as the object of ANY conversation, even if horrific to their stated end goals.

Overall- I not only see nothing wrong with the OP's question, as many have known the exact behavior he is talking about. Some have chosen to divert from the point he was attempting to make in order to respond with self-righteous statements of grandeur and non-judgement of others.

FYI- proclaiming yourself above the use of a word instead of just responding to the question isn't just self-righteous, its also very telling.

There is a difference between people being firm in their beliefs and self-righteous, there is nothing wrong with being firm and confident...but if you really are then you don't need the "Shut up and listen to me" attitude that turns if from one to the other.

I have found VERY FEW who are arrogant and stubborn are also successful and if they are telling you flat out thats how they are with their attitude on display, you should thank them for not wasting your time.

@Shiloh Lundahl I think people just do it for attention. If I come out and make some drastic statement, it gets people reacting and commenting. I unsubscribed to BP emails because I would always see the trending threads that made some ridiculous statement. Social media does this to keep attention. I think it's funny when people act like the sky is always falling and predict the crash every year. Although, It has been awhile. 

Is anyone else even slightly concerned that at the rate the Fed is buying Mortgage Backed Securities, they will own 100% of them by the end of 2021?

Originally posted by @Todd Rasmussen :

Originally posted by @Nicky Reader:

"self-righteous" makes it sound like its a moral argument. There are a lot of really opinionated investors, but  they probably got that way finding success by applying whatever rule they feel strongly about.

For example I have done really well by being local in a B-/C+ area, chasing distressed deals in that area and functioning as my own GC (and handyman) and property manager.  I run a very lean nonfat operation and handle all my tenants carefully, keeping them happy but also paying on time.

Thus I genuinely feel its crazy to try BRRRR remotely in a new city, and think people buying turnkey are just asking to get screwed over. I would never have been able to get where I am now if I was doing either of those two things, so I tend to be pretty opinionated about that.

I think this is the first post of yours that I don't wholly agree with. And even then, I agree with most of it. Just funny to be on the opposite side of the table as we are getting out of our underperforming and only C class property but are finding our success in Long Distance BRRRR.

Yep, and to turn it around on myself, those guys with turnkeys and remote BRRRR can always remind me they've never actually seen one of their tenant's turds, which unfortunately I have seen a nonzero number of.... LOL .. and the MFH, commercial and mobile home guys are thinking all the SFH guys like us are crazy... Honestly as long as its all in good fun and respectful, I really enjoy reading the technical debates that pop up here.

Originally posted by @Nicky Reader :

Originally posted by @Todd Rasmussen:

Originally posted by @Nicky Reader:

"self-righteous" makes it sound like its a moral argument. There are a lot of really opinionated investors, but  they probably got that way finding success by applying whatever rule they feel strongly about.

For example I have done really well by being local in a B-/C+ area, chasing distressed deals in that area and functioning as my own GC (and handyman) and property manager.  I run a very lean nonfat operation and handle all my tenants carefully, keeping them happy but also paying on time.

Thus I genuinely feel its crazy to try BRRRR remotely in a new city, and think people buying turnkey are just asking to get screwed over. I would never have been able to get where I am now if I was doing either of those two things, so I tend to be pretty opinionated about that.

I think this is the first post of yours that I don't wholly agree with. And even then, I agree with most of it. Just funny to be on the opposite side of the table as we are getting out of our underperforming and only C class property but are finding our success in Long Distance BRRRR.

Yep, and to turn it around on myself, those guys with turnkeys and remote BRRRR can always remind me they've never actually seen one of their tenant's turds, which unfortunately I have seen a nonzero number of.... LOL .. and the MFH, commercial and mobile home guys are thinking all the SFH guys like us are crazy... Honestly as long as its all in good fun and respectful, I really enjoy reading the technical debates that pop up here.

LMAO, I'm dreading the day when I look at my management expenses and say, "Well I could do that." I'll make sure that I keep my dialing hand out of the water if I ever get stuck in that situation!

@Shiloh Lundahl , I'm probably one of those self-righteous investors. I have a personal trigger when people use poor math or research to justify their point, and I can't help but post facts when I see it.

Just the other day there was a video posted here with a kid who was super excited and was predicting 30% appreciation in the Austin market over the next three years. Last year the Austin market appreciated almost 20%, and even if it hadn't, the stock market historically appreciates more than 30% over three years (before inflation).

Anyway, I'm sure it's annoying to a lot of people when I do that.

Here is my absurd, self-righteous advice.  Don't invest in a real estate bubble.  We're in one.  Doing a buy and hold with a 2%-5% cap rate is a bad idea. Accepting $250 a door in return for hundreds of thousands of debt is crazy.   Investing out of state puts you at an instant disadvantage as you're forced to use a manager for a 8-10% expense that local investors may or may not have to pay if you DIY.   

How am I doing?   

(I'm here for the "other" BP at this point - BP Business.  I still love y'all, I'm just not doing RE at this point.)

Originally posted by @Chip Marce :

Here is my absurd, self-righteous advice.  Don't invest in a real estate bubble.  We're in one.  Doing a buy and hold with a 2%-5% cap rate is a bad idea. Accepting $250 a door in return for hundreds of thousands of debt is crazy.   Investing out of state puts you at an instant disadvantage as you're forced to use a manager for a 8-10% expense that local investors may or may not have to pay if you DIY.   

How am I doing?   

(I'm here for the "other" BP at this point - BP Business.  I still love y'all, I'm just not doing RE at this point.)

Advising not to invest because we are 'in a bubble' is a good example for the original question....    :)

@Shiloh Lundahl

There was a very egotistical guy on here, and I haven’t seen him post in a while. He had big numbers and would toot his own horn passive aggressively while trying to give us advice on how to do it and saying you should never buy SFRs as it was a waste of time.

While everyone would praise him on his accomplishments, I didn’t hesitate to call him out in what I felt he was doing... tooting his own horn and putting down us little guys. I felt he was a big turd.. glad I don’t see him in here anymore.

"If you think you can you can. And If you think you can't, your right."  Henry Ford

When someone starts with "I would never..." 

Take that with a grain of salt.  They have different risk tolerance, cash reserves, access to credit, background, education, likely a lower tolerance for problem properties etc.    

I bought in Detroit in 2010 and toughed it out for 3 years of constant problems.  Those properties have been the best performers in my portfolio for the last 7 years.   If you were a new investor and this was your first investment, you likely could not tough it out for 3 years!