Skip to content
Tax Liens & Mortgage Notes

User Stats

6
Posts
3
Votes
Rahul Kanani
3
Votes |
6
Posts

Upset Sale PA, Delaware County - Quiet Title Action & Abandoned Personal Property

Rahul Kanani
Posted Apr 2 2024, 06:05

I have recently received the Tax Deed to a property which I purchased at the Delaware County PA Upset Sale. My plan is to rent out the property and refinance the property as soon as possible. I have a few questions regarding proper procedures to take following a tax sale in order to safeguard the property I have purchased and protect myself from unknown costly circumstances. 

1) Quiet Title Action

Could some experienced PA Tax Sale investors recommend a good attorney they have worked with for completing an action to quiet title procedure. I was recommended by a fellow tax deed investor H. Fintan McHugh from Law Firm of Petrikin, Wellman, Damico, Brown and Petrose. I have also spoken with Lee A. Stivale from Stivale Law and William Vinkso from Vinsko & Associates. Please let me know if anyone has experience working with these individuals or any other good attorneys. Also is it true that in order to refinance the property I will have to wait 1 year minimum even if an action to quiet title procedure has completed prior to being able to take out a mortgage on the property?

2) Renovations 

When would be a good time to begin renovation work following a PA Upset/Tax Sale. Should I wait to begin renovating until I am near the end of the action to quiet title procedure or would it be fine to begin work immediately? Background information - I have secured the property, have changed the locks, and the previous owner has not occupied the property in over 5 years and has mostly likely moved in with her daughter in a different state according to the neighbors. The property is in need of overall cosmetic repairs.

3) Abandoned personal property 

What is the proper procedure for handling abandoned personal property found in the house I have taken possession of? Would it be appropriate to clear the property and remove the personal property in a roll off dumpster? The property has clean but old wooden furniture, a nice china set, clothes, etc. Overall, very neat and clean but I have not found anything of large value such as gold or diamond. I have read online that an ejectment procedure could help with removing risk of wrongfully removing personal property. Also, I have read that a 10 day notice could work.
Title 68 - PA General Assembly (state.pa.us) - For Reference 

4) Utility Bills

Should I change the utility providers to be under my name? Electricity is functional in the property, but I have not gotten the water to work yet.

5) Insurance Policies

I was informed by a fellow tax deed investor to obtain builders risk or vacant property building insurance policy soon after the deed is recorded under my name? Is this a common procedure following an upset sale? Also, should I acquire homeowners' insurance immediately for this property?

6) Umbrella Insurance Policies/LLC

Do most investors have an umbrella policies for personal belongings and assets? Do investors own the properties in individual LLCs which are all owned by a holding company LLC? Do investors use Land Trust when putting name on the deed of a property? Currently I have the property under my personal name - I would like to move it to an LLC but from my understanding when I transfer the deed to an LLC I have to pay transfer tax once again? Is there a way I can move the property out of my personal name without paying transfer tax again? What structures do PA investors use to protect their assets? 

7) Tax Assessment Appeal

I was advised by attorney Lee A. Stivale that a Tax Assessment appeal is possible. I am currently scheduled to have the home appraised in its current condition for this Thursday. Is this something investors commonly go about doing? I was told my legal fees would be around $700 dollars and the appraisal is costing me $550. 

Please provide input if possible. Would really appreciate the advice.

User Stats

11,563
Posts
13,680
Votes
John Underwood
Pro Member
#4 All Forums Contributor
  • Investor
  • Greer, SC
13,680
Votes |
11,563
Posts
John Underwood
Pro Member
#4 All Forums Contributor
  • Investor
  • Greer, SC
Replied Apr 2 2024, 06:46

O have multiple tax deed properties and I don't do a Quiet Title. I fix them up and rent them. I get a Landlord policy and pay a higher rate while they are vacant.

If you have major structural work to do then get builders risk insurance, otherwise just hire licensed and insured workers for cosmetic work.

User Stats

2,394
Posts
2,497
Votes
Kevin Sobilo
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Hanover Twp, PA
2,497
Votes |
2,394
Posts
Kevin Sobilo
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Hanover Twp, PA
Replied Apr 2 2024, 06:50

@Rahul Kanani, excellent questions.

1. I don't have a referral for you as I'm in a different part of the state. However you likely cannot refinance for a year if you complete a quiet title because most lenders will require title insurance and providers typically won't issue it until you own the property for 1 year even if you complete a quiet title because the tax sale process is so messy and prone to issues. However, check with your lender. I worked with one lender who did NOT require title insurance on smaller loans under $75k. So, it is possible you will get lucky.

2. I would assess the risk based on the title search. Since a title search will take a few months at least. I might use that time to do a clean out, demo, work on my scope of work and line up contractors. So, I still think work can get done without spending too much money.

Worst case scenario, a former owner tries to reverse the Upset Sale and wins, then all you are out is the cleanout and demo cost which is a relatively small part of the rehab budget in most cases.

3. If utilities are off etc, then to me the place had no tenant/occupant. I would probably post a notice on the door in case someone comes back and after 10 days assume nobody will. To do an ejectment there would probably need to be someone living there to eject. You could go to the magistrate to declare the place abandoned if you feel that's necessary.

If you are only doing cleanout and demo during the quiet title actin period, there is plenty of time to go to the magistrate and have it declared abandoned.

4. If I was declaring the place abandoned, I might wait for that judgement to switch utilities but no longer.

5. I believe most homeowners policies assume you have a functional buildings which you may not, that is where the vacant building insurance comes in. Its more expensive but depending on your appetite for risk could be worthwhile.

6. An LLC protects you if you use it correctly. So, some people use an LLC with no umbrella policy and some people operate under their own name with an umbrella policy. Some do both!

I don't think you can avoid transfer tax when deeding the property over unfortunately.

7. I have always handled appeals on my own without hiring anyone. Also, consider that when you do a rehab and spend $2500 or more improving the property the assessor can come back and re-assess your property again! That probably doesn't happen all the time or even very often, but they can reassess.

I would find out how assessments work in your county as each place implements things a little different. In my area, they typically don't reassess after a rehab unless you are building a new building or maybe adding an addition etc.

That said, the appeals board is there to protect everyone to ensure people pay their fair share. So, when a tax sale property is appealed, they will likely ask what your plans are and when they hear you are rehabbing it, want to consider that as well. So, I typically go right to that with my argument and show them that AFTER my rehab the property will be worth LESS than the current assessment.

Also factor in the "common level ratio". Assessments are with valuations from a specific year. For example 2014, but values change over time. In your county values may have increased 20% making your common level ratio 1.2. So, if your property is worth $120k today, the assessed value should be $100k adjusting using this common level ratio. All assessed values need to be normalized to the year the assessment was done in that county I believe.

https://www.revenue.pa.gov/TaxTypes/RTT/Pages/Common%20Level...

BiggerPockets logo
Find, Vet and Invest in Syndications
|
BiggerPockets
PassivePockets will help you find sponsors, evaluate deals, and learn how to invest with confidence.

User Stats

2,394
Posts
2,497
Votes
Kevin Sobilo
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Hanover Twp, PA
2,497
Votes |
2,394
Posts
Kevin Sobilo
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Hanover Twp, PA
Replied Apr 2 2024, 06:54
Quote from @John Underwood:

O have multiple tax deed properties and I don't do a Quiet Title. I fix them up and rent them. I get a Landlord policy and pay a higher rate while they are vacant.

If you have major structural work to do then get builders risk insurance, otherwise just hire licensed and insured workers for cosmetic work.


Without a Quiet Title you may not be able to refinance or sell the property to a buyer using financing.

The tax sale process is EXTREMELY messy. For example if a former owner was not notified of the sale properly they could have cause to reverse the sale that risk alone could keep you from getting title insurance. I believe in my state if a prior owner lived in the property they need to be served in person which many times is not possible. Many errors like this happen with tax sale properties.

I'm sure the process varies from state to state, so in other states it may not be as messy and the difficulty getting title insurance without doing a Quiet Title might also not exist but here in PA its a very messy process.

User Stats

11,563
Posts
13,680
Votes
John Underwood
Pro Member
#4 All Forums Contributor
  • Investor
  • Greer, SC
13,680
Votes |
11,563
Posts
John Underwood
Pro Member
#4 All Forums Contributor
  • Investor
  • Greer, SC
Replied Apr 2 2024, 07:03
Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:
Quote from @John Underwood:

O have multiple tax deed properties and I don't do a Quiet Title. I fix them up and rent them. I get a Landlord policy and pay a higher rate while they are vacant.

If you have major structural work to do then get builders risk insurance, otherwise just hire licensed and insured workers for cosmetic work.


Without a Quiet Title you may not be able to refinance or sell the property to a buyer using financing.

The tax sale process is EXTREMELY messy. For example if a former owner was not notified of the sale properly they could have cause to reverse the sale that risk alone could keep you from getting title insurance. I believe in my state if a prior owner lived in the property they need to be served in person which many times is not possible. Many errors like this happen with tax sale properties.

I'm sure the process varies from state to state, so in other states it may not be as messy and the difficulty getting title insurance without doing a Quiet Title might also not exist but here in PA its a very messy process.

 I pay cash and don't typically sell my Tax Deed Properties. When I do sell I do so with a Quit Claim deed for cash. If I hold my tax deed properties for 10 years, they clear themselves.

I also use other means to clear the cloud on the title that doesn't involve court or an attorney. 

The Tax deed in my state is very strong it confirms I am the owner so many of the rental properties I own still have the government issued tax deed.

If the county is doing their job property with notifications, then the tax deed is not messy at all, at least not in SC. 

User Stats

2,394
Posts
2,497
Votes
Kevin Sobilo
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Hanover Twp, PA
2,497
Votes |
2,394
Posts
Kevin Sobilo
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Hanover Twp, PA
Replied Apr 2 2024, 07:35
Quote from @John Underwood:
Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:
Quote from @John Underwood:

O have multiple tax deed properties and I don't do a Quiet Title. I fix them up and rent them. I get a Landlord policy and pay a higher rate while they are vacant.

If you have major structural work to do then get builders risk insurance, otherwise just hire licensed and insured workers for cosmetic work.


Without a Quiet Title you may not be able to refinance or sell the property to a buyer using financing.

The tax sale process is EXTREMELY messy. For example if a former owner was not notified of the sale properly they could have cause to reverse the sale that risk alone could keep you from getting title insurance. I believe in my state if a prior owner lived in the property they need to be served in person which many times is not possible. Many errors like this happen with tax sale properties.

I'm sure the process varies from state to state, so in other states it may not be as messy and the difficulty getting title insurance without doing a Quiet Title might also not exist but here in PA its a very messy process.

 I pay cash and don't typically sell my Tax Deed Properties. When I do sell I do so with a Quit Claim deed for cash. If I hold my tax deed properties for 10 years, they clear themselves.

I also use other means to clear the cloud on the title that doesn't involve court or an attorney. 

The Tax deed in my state is very strong it confirms I am the owner so many of the rental properties I own still have the government issued tax deed.

If the county is doing their job property with notifications, then the tax deed is not messy at all, at least not in SC. 


That all makes sense, but you might not choose that approach in all situations.

If the investor wishes to flip the property, they won't be holding the property for 10 years and their end buyer might be an owner-occupant where they will want a special warranty deed and to get title insurance for their financing.

This poster is in my state of PA and the process here is messy. I have seen some tax sales reversed. Some because a prior owner came forward later. Some even because the buyer found reason to be aggrieved at mistakes in the process and didn't want the property.

You mention "other means to clear clouds" and that is a VERY good point that you can find prior owners or interested parties and have them sign off on their rights by giving you quit claim deeds etc.

A quiet title isn't that expensive and handles issues whether you can easily identify them or not. So, its a solid approach. In my state MANY tax sale properties are estates. Figuring out who the legal heirs are might not be possible. If you don't know who they are you can't approach them to clear the cloud, but a quiet title settles things all in one fell swoop.

User Stats

6
Posts
3
Votes
Rahul Kanani
3
Votes |
6
Posts
Rahul Kanani
Replied Apr 2 2024, 10:18
Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

@Rahul Kanani, excellent questions.

1. I don't have a referral for you as I'm in a different part of the state. However you likely cannot refinance for a year if you complete a quiet title because most lenders will require title insurance and providers typically won't issue it until you own the property for 1 year even if you complete a quiet title because the tax sale process is so messy and prone to issues. However, check with your lender. I worked with one lender who did NOT require title insurance on smaller loans under $75k. So, it is possible you will get lucky.

2. I would assess the risk based on the title search. Since a title search will take a few months at least. I might use that time to do a clean out, demo, work on my scope of work and line up contractors. So, I still think work can get done without spending too much money.

Worst case scenario, a former owner tries to reverse the Upset Sale and wins, then all you are out is the cleanout and demo cost which is a relatively small part of the rehab budget in most cases.

3. If utilities are off etc, then to me the place had no tenant/occupant. I would probably post a notice on the door in case someone comes back and after 10 days assume nobody will. To do an ejectment there would probably need to be someone living there to eject. You could go to the magistrate to declare the place abandoned if you feel that's necessary.

If you are only doing cleanout and demo during the quiet title actin period, there is plenty of time to go to the magistrate and have it declared abandoned.

4. If I was declaring the place abandoned, I might wait for that judgement to switch utilities but no longer.

5. I believe most homeowners policies assume you have a functional buildings which you may not, that is where the vacant building insurance comes in. Its more expensive but depending on your appetite for risk could be worthwhile.

6. An LLC protects you if you use it correctly. So, some people use an LLC with no umbrella policy and some people operate under their own name with an umbrella policy. Some do both!

I don't think you can avoid transfer tax when deeding the property over unfortunately.

7. I have always handled appeals on my own without hiring anyone. Also, consider that when you do a rehab and spend $2500 or more improving the property the assessor can come back and re-assess your property again! That probably doesn't happen all the time or even very often, but they can reassess.

I would find out how assessments work in your county as each place implements things a little different. In my area, they typically don't reassess after a rehab unless you are building a new building or maybe adding an addition etc.

That said, the appeals board is there to protect everyone to ensure people pay their fair share. So, when a tax sale property is appealed, they will likely ask what your plans are and when they hear you are rehabbing it, want to consider that as well. So, I typically go right to that with my argument and show them that AFTER my rehab the property will be worth LESS than the current assessment.

Also factor in the "common level ratio". Assessments are with valuations from a specific year. For example 2014, but values change over time. In your county values may have increased 20% making your common level ratio 1.2. So, if your property is worth $120k today, the assessed value should be $100k adjusting using this common level ratio. All assessed values need to be normalized to the year the assessment was done in that county I believe.

https://www.revenue.pa.gov/TaxTypes/RTT/Pages/Common%20Level...

 2) Do you usually wait until the Quiet title action is near completion before beginning work or do you decide based on the title search?

3) How do I go about declaring to the magistrate the property is abandoned? Do I need a lawyer? Also do you usually post notice or declare to the magistrate before clearing personal property from the house? 

5) The property is in functional condition just outdated. Should I try for homeowners insurance and if rejected then get a vacant building policy?

7) How do you handle appeals on your own? Do you have any resources I can use to learn how to properly make a tax appeal claim?



User Stats

2,394
Posts
2,497
Votes
Kevin Sobilo
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Hanover Twp, PA
2,497
Votes |
2,394
Posts
Kevin Sobilo
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Hanover Twp, PA
Replied Apr 2 2024, 10:36
Quote from @Rahul Kanani:
Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

@Rahul Kanani, excellent questions.

1. I don't have a referral for you as I'm in a different part of the state. However you likely cannot refinance for a year if you complete a quiet title because most lenders will require title insurance and providers typically won't issue it until you own the property for 1 year even if you complete a quiet title because the tax sale process is so messy and prone to issues. However, check with your lender. I worked with one lender who did NOT require title insurance on smaller loans under $75k. So, it is possible you will get lucky.

2. I would assess the risk based on the title search. Since a title search will take a few months at least. I might use that time to do a clean out, demo, work on my scope of work and line up contractors. So, I still think work can get done without spending too much money.

Worst case scenario, a former owner tries to reverse the Upset Sale and wins, then all you are out is the cleanout and demo cost which is a relatively small part of the rehab budget in most cases.

3. If utilities are off etc, then to me the place had no tenant/occupant. I would probably post a notice on the door in case someone comes back and after 10 days assume nobody will. To do an ejectment there would probably need to be someone living there to eject. You could go to the magistrate to declare the place abandoned if you feel that's necessary.

If you are only doing cleanout and demo during the quiet title actin period, there is plenty of time to go to the magistrate and have it declared abandoned.

4. If I was declaring the place abandoned, I might wait for that judgement to switch utilities but no longer.

5. I believe most homeowners policies assume you have a functional buildings which you may not, that is where the vacant building insurance comes in. Its more expensive but depending on your appetite for risk could be worthwhile.

6. An LLC protects you if you use it correctly. So, some people use an LLC with no umbrella policy and some people operate under their own name with an umbrella policy. Some do both!

I don't think you can avoid transfer tax when deeding the property over unfortunately.

7. I have always handled appeals on my own without hiring anyone. Also, consider that when you do a rehab and spend $2500 or more improving the property the assessor can come back and re-assess your property again! That probably doesn't happen all the time or even very often, but they can reassess.

I would find out how assessments work in your county as each place implements things a little different. In my area, they typically don't reassess after a rehab unless you are building a new building or maybe adding an addition etc.

That said, the appeals board is there to protect everyone to ensure people pay their fair share. So, when a tax sale property is appealed, they will likely ask what your plans are and when they hear you are rehabbing it, want to consider that as well. So, I typically go right to that with my argument and show them that AFTER my rehab the property will be worth LESS than the current assessment.

Also factor in the "common level ratio". Assessments are with valuations from a specific year. For example 2014, but values change over time. In your county values may have increased 20% making your common level ratio 1.2. So, if your property is worth $120k today, the assessed value should be $100k adjusting using this common level ratio. All assessed values need to be normalized to the year the assessment was done in that county I believe.

https://www.revenue.pa.gov/TaxTypes/RTT/Pages/Common%20Level...

 2) Do you usually wait until the Quiet title action is near completion before beginning work or do you decide based on the title search?

3) How do I go about declaring to the magistrate the property is abandoned? Do I need a lawyer? Also do you usually post notice or declare to the magistrate before clearing personal property from the house? 

5) The property is in functional condition just outdated. Should I try for homeowners insurance and if rejected then get a vacant building policy?

7) How do you handle appeals on your own? Do you have any resources I can use to learn how to properly make a tax appeal claim?




 2. The properties I have bought through the tax sale process have been mostly land. The only house I bought I have been using for storage. I did a Quiet Title on it a couple years ago and may finally start rehabbing it later this year. So, you should plan when to start the rehab based on your perceived risk and your risk tolerance.

3. To declare a place abandoned, its a Landlord/Tenant Complaint with the magistrate. I've never had to go through that process myself, but it looks like you use this form. Note: I believe they call out "manufactured home" separate of "the property" not because this form only deals with manufactured homes but because a manufactured home on land but not on a permanent foundation is considered a separate piece of real estate form the land. In fact the manufactured home has its own PIN and gets property tax bill separate from the land.

https://www.pacourts.us/Storage/media/pdfs/20210515/220322-f...

5. Yes, I would just try for a homeowers policy, but talk with your insurance agent. I like working through an agent to ask questions and also to shop my insurance around to multiple providers.

7. Appeals should be through your Assessment office. They usually have a period of time each year where you can file an appeal. In my area the appeals are heard in the middle of the year with the result of the appeal coming out in the fall so that the taxing bodies have the information for the following year's taxes. 

User Stats

3,349
Posts
2,445
Votes
David Krulac
  • Mechanicsburg, PA
2,445
Votes |
3,349
Posts
David Krulac
  • Mechanicsburg, PA
Replied Apr 3 2024, 05:52

@John Underwood in PA. the statute of limitations for Adverse Possession is 21 years.  We have purchased hundreds of properties at Tax Sales, and in a few cases have not done a Quiet Title Action and waited the 21 years.  Obviously doesn't work for every property, every situation and every Tax Sale.  I'm not an attorney and am not giving legal advice.  

The problem with the Tax Sales is lack of notice or insufficient notice.  In one of our cases the property was titled in husband and wife's names.  we bought at Tax Sale and at the trial to reclaim their property the wife, who had signed the Certified Mail Notice of the sale, swore under penalty of perjury, that she "never" told her husband of the Tax Sale.  Therefore, he did not know of the Tax Sale and the court ruled that the sale was invalid and overturned.  In another case the property was owned by John Smith, but the county records were listed with sur name first, so as Smith John.  The notice was sent to the proper address but addressed to Smith John.  John Smith appealed the Tax Sale and the court ruled in his favor saying that the notice should have been sent to either John Smith or Smith, John.  Since the comma was missing the sale was invalid.  Any time a person has moved, and the sale notice didn't get to the owner, the sale is potentially overturned.  Any time the owner has passed away, the notice is invalid.  Any time the owner has not signed the Certified Mail notice, the sale is potentially invalid.  In one specific county the same judge handled all the Tax Sale cases every year.  The judge believed that the loss of the property was too severe of punishment and would do everything he could from the bench to overturn every Tax Sale before him.  In one case, he actually was instruction the incompetent attorney for the former owner on how to present his case in the best light for the judge.  It was if the Judge was "of counsel" for the plaintiff.  It was almost humorous.  We had one case where the sale was court contested and cost us $45,000 in legal fees and after 9 years of Depositions, Interrogatories, etc, we still had not gone before the judge. 

David Krulac

Bigger Pockets Podcast #82

User Stats

14,713
Posts
12,106
Votes
Chris Seveney
Pro Member
#2 All Forums Contributor
  • Investor
  • Virginia
12,106
Votes |
14,713
Posts
Chris Seveney
Pro Member
#2 All Forums Contributor
  • Investor
  • Virginia
Replied Apr 3 2024, 06:07
Quote from @Rahul Kanani:

I have recently received the Tax Deed to a property which I purchased at the Delaware County PA Upset Sale. My plan is to rent out the property and refinance the property as soon as possible. I have a few questions regarding proper procedures to take following a tax sale in order to safeguard the property I have purchased and protect myself from unknown costly circumstances. 

1) Quiet Title Action

Could some experienced PA Tax Sale investors recommend a good attorney they have worked with for completing an action to quiet title procedure. I was recommended by a fellow tax deed investor H. Fintan McHugh from Law Firm of Petrikin, Wellman, Damico, Brown and Petrose. I have also spoken with Lee A. Stivale from Stivale Law and William Vinkso from Vinsko & Associates. Please let me know if anyone has experience working with these individuals or any other good attorneys. Also is it true that in order to refinance the property I will have to wait 1 year minimum even if an action to quiet title procedure has completed prior to being able to take out a mortgage on the property?

2) Renovations 

When would be a good time to begin renovation work following a PA Upset/Tax Sale. Should I wait to begin renovating until I am near the end of the action to quiet title procedure or would it be fine to begin work immediately? Background information - I have secured the property, have changed the locks, and the previous owner has not occupied the property in over 5 years and has mostly likely moved in with her daughter in a different state according to the neighbors. The property is in need of overall cosmetic repairs.

3) Abandoned personal property 

What is the proper procedure for handling abandoned personal property found in the house I have taken possession of? Would it be appropriate to clear the property and remove the personal property in a roll off dumpster? The property has clean but old wooden furniture, a nice china set, clothes, etc. Overall, very neat and clean but I have not found anything of large value such as gold or diamond. I have read online that an ejectment procedure could help with removing risk of wrongfully removing personal property. Also, I have read that a 10 day notice could work.
Title 68 - PA General Assembly (state.pa.us) - For Reference 

4) Utility Bills

Should I change the utility providers to be under my name? Electricity is functional in the property, but I have not gotten the water to work yet.

5) Insurance Policies

I was informed by a fellow tax deed investor to obtain builders risk or vacant property building insurance policy soon after the deed is recorded under my name? Is this a common procedure following an upset sale? Also, should I acquire homeowners' insurance immediately for this property?

6) Umbrella Insurance Policies/LLC

Do most investors have an umbrella policies for personal belongings and assets? Do investors own the properties in individual LLCs which are all owned by a holding company LLC? Do investors use Land Trust when putting name on the deed of a property? Currently I have the property under my personal name - I would like to move it to an LLC but from my understanding when I transfer the deed to an LLC I have to pay transfer tax once again? Is there a way I can move the property out of my personal name without paying transfer tax again? What structures do PA investors use to protect their assets? 

7) Tax Assessment Appeal

I was advised by attorney Lee A. Stivale that a Tax Assessment appeal is possible. I am currently scheduled to have the home appraised in its current condition for this Thursday. Is this something investors commonly go about doing? I was told my legal fees would be around $700 dollars and the appraisal is costing me $550. 

Please provide input if possible. Would really appreciate the advice.


 before renovating the property, just want to confirm that you ran a title report on this property and there are no other liens.At an upset sale other liens are not wiped out, recently saw someone buy a home at upset sale that had $100k owed on the property and they did not realize it.

User Stats

3,349
Posts
2,445
Votes
David Krulac
  • Mechanicsburg, PA
2,445
Votes |
3,349
Posts
David Krulac
  • Mechanicsburg, PA
Replied Apr 3 2024, 07:06

@Chris Seveney In PA. at Upset Sales no mortgages, liens, judgements or any other lien are wiped out except the tax delinquency.  Therefore, you must do a title search BEFORE the Upset Sale or you could be in big trouble.  At one sale the bidders did a quick title search themselves right before the auction and missing a mortgage for $286,000.  they were surprised at the sale when nobody else bid on the property.  But they were more surprised when they found out they bought the property but also bought the $286,000 mortgage.  Very expensive lesson in the school of hard knocks! 

User Stats

14,713
Posts
12,106
Votes
Chris Seveney
Pro Member
#2 All Forums Contributor
  • Investor
  • Virginia
12,106
Votes |
14,713
Posts
Chris Seveney
Pro Member
#2 All Forums Contributor
  • Investor
  • Virginia
Replied Apr 3 2024, 16:24

@David Krulac

We owned a loan on an asset where we let it go to upset sale and an investor bought it and we then filed foreclosure on them to their surprise

They didn’t think they had to pay - once they learned they did they paid but it was an expensive mistake for them too

User Stats

3,349
Posts
2,445
Votes
David Krulac
  • Mechanicsburg, PA
2,445
Votes |
3,349
Posts
David Krulac
  • Mechanicsburg, PA
Replied Apr 3 2024, 16:47

@Chris Seveney was this in PA or VA? I spoke in Richmond on March 20, but I didn't speak on Tax Sales directly.

BiggerPockets logo
BiggerPockets
|
Sponsored
Find an investor-friendly agent in your market TODAY Get matched with our network of trusted, local, investor friendly agents in under 2 minutes

User Stats

14,713
Posts
12,106
Votes
Chris Seveney
Pro Member
#2 All Forums Contributor
  • Investor
  • Virginia
12,106
Votes |
14,713
Posts
Chris Seveney
Pro Member
#2 All Forums Contributor
  • Investor
  • Virginia
Replied Apr 3 2024, 17:34

@David Krulac

This was loan we owned in PA, we buy defaulted loans all over the country.

User Stats

6
Posts
3
Votes
Rahul Kanani
3
Votes |
6
Posts
Rahul Kanani
Replied Apr 4 2024, 05:20

@Chris Seveney How do you go about buying defaulted loans? Do you buy only first mortgages? Do you buy other liens like HOA, IRS, child support, tax liens, municipal liens, etc.