Central heating issue in bedroom and living room

[Eric Samuels]

Hey everyone,

First time house hacker here.

I closed on a duplex in Philly end of September and once it got cold I realized the living room and medium sized bedroom in one of the units were not warming up as much as other areas of the unit. I'm considering cutting rent $50/mo for the remaining 3 months for the tenant in that room. Is this a smart move?

Living room (fl 2) has one supply and one return vent, medium sized bed room (fl 3) has one supply vent that isn't pushing as much hot air as other supply vents. As mentioned, I have one tenant in the medium sized room and I'm in the master bedroom (fl 3) in the same unit currently, which has a supply and a return and heats up just fine.

Measuring the temperatures with central heat on a cold day at 70 degrees on the thermostat it can heat the medium br to 65 and the living room to 68. I bought a space heater for the tenant's room and another for the living room to buy some time. Space heaters + central heat can heat the living room to 70 and the bedroom well above 70. I basically told the tenant that if I could not figure out the heat situation within a reasonable time (he moved in on nov 15th and is on a 6 mo lease) then I would get baseboard heaters for both living room and his bedroom as a workaround. I've been told this is a very expensive workaround solution by some contractors after I had already told my tenant this.

So far I've had several HVAC people out. One company said to do some mastic and foil tape sealing in the ducts in the basement to fix. Did that and didn't change drastically. It has also been recommended by another company that I tear down drywall to assess the issue with my confirmed flex duct system and potentially add extra supply ducts. This seems like a super expensive solution I'm not willing to entertain at this moment. Still planning on addressing the root issue of course but losing $150 instead of potentially paying over a grand to update my service panel and purchase baseboard heaters on top of the increased electric bill does not seem feasible as a short term solution.

Would love some advice!

Thanks,

[William Sing]

Congrats Eric on your first House Hack!

Based on how I'm reading this it sounds like this is a multiple-floor home. When it comes to heating and cooling with multiple stories, there is always going to be some degree of difference between each of the floors. I'd recommend just using space heaters for the time being. They usually are more energy efficient than baseboard heaters but are a shorter-term solution. 

The only thing you could potentially do is install a ductless heat pump (mini-split) in the cooler room. These are usually the best way to heat a house uniformly since you can have multiple heads. I have seen a lot of them on the top floor since the main HVAC system doesn't cool down an attic space well. 

I would just build in the cost of the electricity including the space heaters. It is completely up to you though!

[Eric Samuels]

Quote from @William Sing:

Congrats Eric on your first House Hack!

Based on how I'm reading this it sounds like this is a multiple-floor home. When it comes to heating and cooling with multiple stories, there is always going to be some degree of difference between each of the floors. I'd recommend just using space heaters for the time being. They usually are more energy efficient than baseboard heaters but are a shorter-term solution. 

The only thing you could potentially do is install a ductless heat pump (mini-split) in the cooler room. These are usually the best way to heat a house uniformly since you can have multiple heads. I have seen a lot of them on the top floor since the main HVAC system doesn't cool down an attic space well. 

I would just build in the cost of the electricity including the space heaters. It is completely up to you though!

 Thanks Will! It's definitely been a rollercoaster so far. I do believe it's a duct issue and not the natural heat differences between floors. It's a 3 story building. Unit 1 is on the first floor and unit 2 is on the 2nd and 3rd. Unit 2 living room on 2nd floor and med bedroom on 3rd floor have the heating issues. If it were a matter of height differences I'd think the master bed on the 3rd would experience the same issue. Also didn't mention a laundry room on the 2nd floor with no return vent (just like medium sized br on 3rd floor) heats up just fine. Feel like there might be some type of obstruction of air flow to the med bedroom and something else at play for the living room. I'm reluctant to do mini splits only because it has what seems to be not too old of a furnace and duct work. Mini splits are really last resort.

[John Mano]

I can attest that the standard baseboard electric heat is quite expensive to run. I have a tenant that rents a bedroom and the cost to run just one baseboard is about $200 a month.  Instead of complaining about the cold, your tenant will complain about the high electricity bill or the building needs better insulation.  

I'm considering replacing the electric baseboard with the electric hydronic baseboard.  I heard they are more efficient to run but the cost for the unit is higher i.e.  $62 vs $230.  Given the high cost of the hydronic units, I may look into the mini-split option or electric central heat with new duct work. 

[Eric Samuels]

Quote from @John Mano:

I can attest that the standard baseboard electric heat is quite expensive to run. I have a tenant that rents a bedroom and the cost to run just one baseboard is about $200 a month.  Instead of complaining about the cold, your tenant will complain about the high electricity bill or the building needs better insulation.  

I'm considering replacing the electric baseboard with the electric hydronic baseboard.  I heard they are more efficient to run but the cost for the unit is higher i.e.  $62 vs $230.  Given the high cost of the hydronic units, I may look into the mini-split option or electric central heat with new duct work. 

Thanks John, unfortunately I opted in offering my tenant a standard rate for utilities each month so I’m going to be eating the cost of whatever decision I make to improve the heat until he moves out (on a 6 month lease). I have a decent furnace but it’s just struggling in 2 rooms. If I buy more time by reducing rent for the winter a bit (let’s say $50/month) $150 would be way less costly than the cost of two baseboard heaters, the cost to set them up and to run them.

[John Mano]

Quote from @Eric Samuels:

Quote from @John Mano:

I can attest that the standard baseboard electric heat is quite expensive to run. I have a tenant that rents a bedroom and the cost to run just one baseboard is about $200 a month.  Instead of complaining about the cold, your tenant will complain about the high electricity bill or the building needs better insulation.  

I'm considering replacing the electric baseboard with the electric hydronic baseboard.  I heard they are more efficient to run but the cost for the unit is higher i.e.  $62 vs $230.  Given the high cost of the hydronic units, I may look into the mini-split option or electric central heat with new duct work. 

Thanks John, unfortunately I opted in offering my tenant a standard rate for utilities each month so I’m going to be eating the cost of whatever decision I make to improve the heat until he moves out (on a 6 month lease). I have a decent furnace but it’s just struggling in 2 rooms. If I buy more time by reducing rent for the winter a bit (let’s say $50/month) $150 would be way less costly than the cost of two baseboard heaters, the cost to set them up and to run them.

Sounds like a lose-lose situation but you're right that the option that cost you the least would be the way to go for now.  What would be your permanent solution once they move out?

[Eric Samuels]

Quote from @John Mano:

Quote from @Eric Samuels:

Quote from @John Mano:

I can attest that the standard baseboard electric heat is quite expensive to run. I have a tenant that rents a bedroom and the cost to run just one baseboard is about $200 a month.  Instead of complaining about the cold, your tenant will complain about the high electricity bill or the building needs better insulation.  

I'm considering replacing the electric baseboard with the electric hydronic baseboard.  I heard they are more efficient to run but the cost for the unit is higher i.e.  $62 vs $230.  Given the high cost of the hydronic units, I may look into the mini-split option or electric central heat with new duct work. 

Thanks John, unfortunately I opted in offering my tenant a standard rate for utilities each month so I’m going to be eating the cost of whatever decision I make to improve the heat until he moves out (on a 6 month lease). I have a decent furnace but it’s just struggling in 2 rooms. If I buy more time by reducing rent for the winter a bit (let’s say $50/month) $150 would be way less costly than the cost of two baseboard heaters, the cost to set them up and to run them.

Sounds like a lose-lose situation but you're right that the option that cost you the least would be the way to go for now.  What would be your permanent solution once they move out?

I’m still trying to figure that out but ideally I’m hoping that adding a supply vent to the medium sized bedroom and another supply or return vent to the living room would do the trick. I’m going to get a free estimate from a trusted HVAC company. They also recommended using a ductulator (didn’t know that was a thing) to determine if I have the right sized ducts.

[Bruce Woodruff]

Tearing out and replacing drywall is usually pretty cheap.....so is ducting. I'd just go ahead and fix it right.....

[John Mano]

Quote from @Eric Samuels:

Quote from @John Mano:

Quote from @Eric Samuels:

Quote from @John Mano:

I can attest that the standard baseboard electric heat is quite expensive to run. I have a tenant that rents a bedroom and the cost to run just one baseboard is about $200 a month.  Instead of complaining about the cold, your tenant will complain about the high electricity bill or the building needs better insulation.  

I'm considering replacing the electric baseboard with the electric hydronic baseboard.  I heard they are more efficient to run but the cost for the unit is higher i.e.  $62 vs $230.  Given the high cost of the hydronic units, I may look into the mini-split option or electric central heat with new duct work. 

Thanks John, unfortunately I opted in offering my tenant a standard rate for utilities each month so I’m going to be eating the cost of whatever decision I make to improve the heat until he moves out (on a 6 month lease). I have a decent furnace but it’s just struggling in 2 rooms. If I buy more time by reducing rent for the winter a bit (let’s say $50/month) $150 would be way less costly than the cost of two baseboard heaters, the cost to set them up and to run them.

Sounds like a lose-lose situation but you're right that the option that cost you the least would be the way to go for now.  What would be your permanent solution once they move out?

I’m still trying to figure that out but ideally I’m hoping that adding a supply vent to the medium sized bedroom and another supply or return vent to the living room would do the trick. I’m going to get a free estimate from a trusted HVAC company. They also recommended using a ductulator (didn’t know that was a thing) to determine if I have the right sized ducts.

Since you already had HVAC people came out to check, were they able to tell you if your furnace is strong enough (BTU and blower size) to support the building size or additional duct?  Since it's a duplex, maybe use the current furnace for the upper unit (2nd/3rd) floor and install new, smaller furnace for the first floor unit, new duct work would not be complicated with basement access. 

[Rich O'Neill]

It sounds to me like the lack of return air is a major factor. it could also be a lack of insulation in that room, or an excessively large window with single pane glass. 

One trick I have used with varying levels of success is to cut the door height up a little bit to allow more air to pass underneath. This isn't ideal in a co-living situation. 

The other thing you could do is use a passive air return that utilizes the stud bays. You cut a hole near the floor in a stud bay of a wall in the cold room adjacent with a warm hallway, then a hole near the top of that same stud bay in the warm hallway, both covered with air return grates. The lower pressure in the hallway (assuming this exists because of the presence of an air return) should pull colder air from the floor of the room into the warmer hallway and allow more air flow through the supply in the cold room. It is preferable to do this on a wall further away from the cold room's supply vent, but not critical. I hope this makes sense. This is a cheap "try it out" method that may or may not help. 

Hope it helps! 

[Bruce Woodruff]

@Rich O'Neill Smart idea!